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FW BlTCH
Posted - 2008.12.28 05:58:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Astro Glyde
Originally by: Xailia
So you haven't tried a direct connection to your modem?


I'm not using wireless. Those that are have tried to direct-connect, without success.


Direct connection to modem = not through router = ...well, a direct connection to the modem

Owsen Mitchell
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.28 06:09:00 - [32]
 

I havent had the problem but I know allot of people have. It is not a problem with these peoples computers or connection. Also I know it's not a massively wide spread problem but it is wide spread enough that it has to be a problem from CCP's end. So all these people saying "it must be your fault" wake up and just hope you dont end up with the same problem. Like was said in another post "just because you dont have a problem dosnt mean the people who do have the problem are to blame.

Rhaven
Quiet.Storm
Posted - 2008.12.28 06:10:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Astro Glyde
Originally by: Xailia
So you haven't tried a direct connection to your modem?


I'm not using wireless. Those that are have tried to direct-connect, without success.



Well have you ran the log server and sent that in with a bug report? They provide a log server with the client to help if som eone is having issues so that they can see where the issue is it is something that you have to start before you start the client. With all the different configurations of comp pout not everyone can be tested so they provide the log server to gather info and work on fixing the problems as ppl send them in. you wan tto say that their logs say no problem and itis client side then provide them with a log report from thier log server on your comp. if you look in the C:/programfiles/ccp/eve folder if you are running windows you will see it there and then submit that with a bug report and they will get back with you on it.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.28 06:21:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Astro Glyde

Originally by: Jana Clant
I've been here long enough to notice that...


Likewise. This may be a relatively isolated issue but to those it affects, it's crippling. FYI, there are other threads about this already.




I am not computer savy, but if you are willing to admit that it is an isolated situation, then how can it be CCP's responsibility?


Slade



HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2008.12.28 06:29:00 - [35]
 

GAME OVER MAN! GAME OVER!


Reten Kip
Everset Dropbears
Posted - 2008.12.28 06:32:00 - [36]
 

Maybe we could build a fire, sing a couple of songs, huh? Why don't we try that?

Super Skulls
Posted - 2008.12.28 06:37:00 - [37]
 

Tweaking the MTU settings in both my router and on my computer for both my connections (wireless and hardline) have greatly reduced the number of times I get d/cd because of "closed sockets". It still happens every once in a while, but it's pretty much random.

D'ceet
Posted - 2008.12.28 06:43:00 - [38]
 

i get socket problems, but, im a man so i dont complain.

i just deal with it.

EmbraceMy'Hate
Caldari
Chicks on Speed Academy
Posted - 2008.12.28 08:01:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: charming wanderer
I am sure that someone named after anal lube is really going to get serious consideration Rolling Eyes


troll indeed is my guess because problems with eve in general arent exactly "new"

Bager Gray
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.12.28 08:19:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Bager Gray on 28/12/2008 08:20:29
Your post remindes me of a sig i read recently
[Linkage

Langoss
Posted - 2008.12.28 08:38:00 - [41]
 

I and my friend also had disconnect problems. I dont know why, but when we turned off the sound the problem was solved. I bought a new mainboard 3 mounth ago and EVE has sound again and no disconnect effect.

Rhohan
Minmatar Marauders
Posted - 2008.12.28 10:55:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Rhohan on 28/12/2008 10:55:38


I had this issue as well for a short time. I updated my ATI video card drivers about 3 weeks ago and the problem went away.




Astro Glyde
Wormhole Rescue Service
Posted - 2008.12.28 11:13:00 - [43]
 

Got my kids to bed early, got the wife a chick flick on DVD and hoped to get some EVE time tonight. Here's how I spent it:

2008.12.28 07:00:47 STARTUP [1304]
2008.12.28 07:28:24 SHUTDOWN [1304] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:28:30 STARTUP [1000]
2008.12.28 07:39:07 SHUTDOWN [1000] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:39:15 STARTUP [1492]
2008.12.28 07:39:34 SHUTDOWN [1492] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:39:37 STARTUP [1500]
2008.12.28 07:42:34 SHUTDOWN [1500] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:43:03 STARTUP [1772]
2008.12.28 07:44:36 SHUTDOWN [1772] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:46:46 STARTUP [1104]
2008.12.28 07:48:35 SHUTDOWN [1104] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:51:32 STARTUP [2028]
2008.12.28 08:00:28 SHUTDOWN [2028] connection lost
2008.12.28 08:00:32 STARTUP [2012]
2008.12.28 08:17:43 SHUTDOWN [2012] connection lost
2008.12.28 08:20:41 STARTUP [996]
2008.12.28 09:05:50 SHUTDOWN [996] connection lost
2008.12.28 09:06:11 STARTUP [1588]
2008.12.28 09:40:13 SHUTDOWN [1588] connection lost
2008.12.28 09:40:17 STARTUP [964]
2008.12.28 10:42:43 SHUTDOWN [964] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:43:21 STARTUP [1364]
2008.12.28 10:47:07 SHUTDOWN [1364] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:47:12 STARTUP [424]
2008.12.28 10:49:43 SHUTDOWN [424] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:49:47 STARTUP [1464]
2008.12.28 10:55:11 SHUTDOWN [1464] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:55:16 STARTUP [1092]
2008.12.28 11:02:47 SHUTDOWN [1092] connection lost

ISP is Verizon DSL in Los Angeles, CA.

Tracing route to 87.237.38.200 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 23 ms 22 ms 23 ms L100.DSL-49.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net [96.229.38.1]

3 23 ms 24 ms 24 ms P11-0.LCR-04.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net [130.81.44.2
4]
4 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms so-6-2-0-0.BB-RTR2.LAX01.verizon-gni.net [130.81
.28.229]
5 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms so-7-1-0-0.BB-RTR2.LAX01.verizon-gni.net [130.81
.17.147]
6 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms ge2-6.br01.lax04.pccwbtn.net [63.218.51.29]
7 278 ms 207 ms 202 ms telecity.ge9-9.br02.ldn01.pccwbtn.net [63.218.13
.222]
8 179 ms 179 ms 178 ms 532-dist65-01.lon3.telecity.net [217.20.44.226]

9 184 ms 184 ms 183 ms ipt-ccp-games-1-as35834.lon3.telecity.net [217.2
0.44.138]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * *

Great fun.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.12.28 11:19:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Shintai on 28/12/2008 11:19:44
Originally by: Astro Glyde
Got my kids to bed early, got the wife a chick flick on DVD and hoped to get some EVE time tonight. Here's how I spent it:

2008.12.28 07:00:47 STARTUP [1304]
2008.12.28 07:28:24 SHUTDOWN [1304] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:28:30 STARTUP [1000]
2008.12.28 07:39:07 SHUTDOWN [1000] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:39:15 STARTUP [1492]
2008.12.28 07:39:34 SHUTDOWN [1492] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:39:37 STARTUP [1500]
2008.12.28 07:42:34 SHUTDOWN [1500] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:43:03 STARTUP [1772]
2008.12.28 07:44:36 SHUTDOWN [1772] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:46:46 STARTUP [1104]
2008.12.28 07:48:35 SHUTDOWN [1104] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:51:32 STARTUP [2028]
2008.12.28 08:00:28 SHUTDOWN [2028] connection lost
2008.12.28 08:00:32 STARTUP [2012]
2008.12.28 08:17:43 SHUTDOWN [2012] connection lost
2008.12.28 08:20:41 STARTUP [996]
2008.12.28 09:05:50 SHUTDOWN [996] connection lost
2008.12.28 09:06:11 STARTUP [1588]
2008.12.28 09:40:13 SHUTDOWN [1588] connection lost
2008.12.28 09:40:17 STARTUP [964]
2008.12.28 10:42:43 SHUTDOWN [964] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:43:21 STARTUP [1364]
2008.12.28 10:47:07 SHUTDOWN [1364] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:47:12 STARTUP [424]
2008.12.28 10:49:43 SHUTDOWN [424] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:49:47 STARTUP [1464]
2008.12.28 10:55:11 SHUTDOWN [1464] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:55:16 STARTUP [1092]
2008.12.28 11:02:47 SHUTDOWN [1092] connection lost

ISP is Verizon DSL in Los Angeles, CA.

Tracing route to 87.237.38.200 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 23 ms 22 ms 23 ms L100.DSL-49.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net [96.229.38.1]

3 23 ms 24 ms 24 ms P11-0.LCR-04.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net [130.81.44.2
4]
4 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms so-6-2-0-0.BB-RTR2.LAX01.verizon-gni.net [130.81
.28.229]
5 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms so-7-1-0-0.BB-RTR2.LAX01.verizon-gni.net [130.81
.17.147]
6 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms ge2-6.br01.lax04.pccwbtn.net [63.218.51.29]
7 278 ms 207 ms 202 ms telecity.ge9-9.br02.ldn01.pccwbtn.net [63.218.13
.222]
8 179 ms 179 ms 178 ms 532-dist65-01.lon3.telecity.net [217.20.44.226]

9 184 ms 184 ms 183 ms ipt-ccp-games-1-as35834.lon3.telecity.net [217.2
0.44.138]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * *

Great fun.



Call your ISP. CCP cant fix the issue with your ISP or own router conf. Its also pretty odd you timeout on your first jump...last jump is ICMP protected.

Tracing route to 87.237.38.200 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 99.ge.cosw1-hoer.fullrate.dk [90.185.3.25]
2 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms kbn-b1-link.telia.net [213.248.96.29]
3 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms kbn-b1-link.telia.net [80.91.249.193]
4 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms kbn-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.254.30]
5 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms hbg-bb1-pos7-0-0.telia.net [213.248.65.146]
6 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms ldn-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.254.217]
7 26 ms 21 ms 21 ms ldn-b4-link.telia.net [80.91.251.17]
8 21 ms 20 ms 20 ms ccp-ic-124901-ldn-thon-s2.c.telia.net [213.248.9
0.90]
9 * ^C

Or maybe you just got your PC beefed up with malware.

Digital Solaris
Posted - 2008.12.28 11:35:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Shintai
Edited by: Shintai on 28/12/2008 11:19:44
Originally by: Astro Glyde
Got my kids to bed early, got the wife a chick flick on DVD and hoped to get some EVE time tonight. Here's how I spent it:

[stuff cut]

Great fun.



Call your ISP. CCP cant fix the issue with your ISP or own router conf. Its also pretty odd you timeout on your first jump...last jump is ICMP protected.

[stuff cut]

Or maybe you just got your PC beefed up with malware.


I agree with Shintai, I'd get in touch with your ISP if I were you; also what have you installed something on your system recently, like if you had a AV suite with draconian settings?

Gunter Bahad
Amarr
Posted - 2008.12.28 13:23:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Astro Glyde
Got my kids to bed early, got the wife a chick flick on DVD and hoped to get some EVE time tonight. Here's how I spent it:

2008.12.28 07:00:47 STARTUP [1304]
2008.12.28 07:28:24 SHUTDOWN [1304] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:28:30 STARTUP [1000]
2008.12.28 07:39:07 SHUTDOWN [1000] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:39:15 STARTUP [1492]
2008.12.28 07:39:34 SHUTDOWN [1492] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:39:37 STARTUP [1500]
2008.12.28 07:42:34 SHUTDOWN [1500] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:43:03 STARTUP [1772]
2008.12.28 07:44:36 SHUTDOWN [1772] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:46:46 STARTUP [1104]
2008.12.28 07:48:35 SHUTDOWN [1104] connection lost
2008.12.28 07:51:32 STARTUP [2028]
2008.12.28 08:00:28 SHUTDOWN [2028] connection lost
2008.12.28 08:00:32 STARTUP [2012]
2008.12.28 08:17:43 SHUTDOWN [2012] connection lost
2008.12.28 08:20:41 STARTUP [996]
2008.12.28 09:05:50 SHUTDOWN [996] connection lost
2008.12.28 09:06:11 STARTUP [1588]
2008.12.28 09:40:13 SHUTDOWN [1588] connection lost
2008.12.28 09:40:17 STARTUP [964]
2008.12.28 10:42:43 SHUTDOWN [964] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:43:21 STARTUP [1364]
2008.12.28 10:47:07 SHUTDOWN [1364] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:47:12 STARTUP [424]
2008.12.28 10:49:43 SHUTDOWN [424] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:49:47 STARTUP [1464]
2008.12.28 10:55:11 SHUTDOWN [1464] connection lost
2008.12.28 10:55:16 STARTUP [1092]
2008.12.28 11:02:47 SHUTDOWN [1092] connection lost

ISP is Verizon DSL in Los Angeles, CA.

Tracing route to 87.237.38.200 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 23 ms 22 ms 23 ms L100.DSL-49.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net [96.229.38.1]

3 23 ms 24 ms 24 ms P11-0.LCR-04.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net [130.81.44.2
4]
4 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms so-6-2-0-0.BB-RTR2.LAX01.verizon-gni.net [130.81
.28.229]
5 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms so-7-1-0-0.BB-RTR2.LAX01.verizon-gni.net [130.81
.17.147]
6 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms ge2-6.br01.lax04.pccwbtn.net [63.218.51.29]
7 278 ms 207 ms 202 ms telecity.ge9-9.br02.ldn01.pccwbtn.net [63.218.13
.222]
8 179 ms 179 ms 178 ms 532-dist65-01.lon3.telecity.net [217.20.44.226]

9 184 ms 184 ms 183 ms ipt-ccp-games-1-as35834.lon3.telecity.net [217.2
0.44.138]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * *

Great fun.



The request time outs on the first hop are common, with either a software or hardware firewall with a shealth rule, ie no matching rules to the device, drop all.

I would be be concerned with the last few hops having that high of a latency. Remember the IT lads the ISP and CCP can only do so much.... sometimes we It lads go.... ****ed if I know. If they don't see anything on their side and there is no evidence offered from you what else do you expect? YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PERSON THEY ARE HELPING! Neeping only takes the IT lad away from the issue so they can read your neep... give the data,logs, diags, ask if there is anything else and bugger off and let them do their job.

Glengrant
Beyond Limited
Posted - 2008.12.28 15:33:00 - [47]
 

This is unlikely to be a problem with just the EVE client as a much larger percentage (more or less everybody sooner or later) of the playerbase would be affected then.

The other thread mentioned by OP is a total waste.
Every time a player said "me too" without mentioning OS version, ISP, security software and router s/he wasted a message. That might vent some frustration but won't get you anywhere.

The trick is to find the common variable. CCP has no chance fixing a bug when all they get is a "Go fix this". It might well be something that CCP cannot fix (for example some anti-virus software).
Other stuff might not be CCPs fault - but perhaps can be fixed by them with a workaround if they know what the problem is.

Their logs not showing the problem probably means just that - the problem can't be analyzed from their side (if for example your firewall keeps killing connections).

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.28 16:07:00 - [48]
 

ehm ehm...
C C C7 B# F# F#7 Em Em7

EVE IS DIEING

Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.12.28 16:23:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Astro Glyde


9 184 ms 184 ms 183 ms ipt-ccp-games-1-as35834.lon3.telecity.net [217.2
0.44.138]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * *

Great fun.



That's a problem between the CCP router on telecity's network (ipt-ccp-games-1-as35834.lon3.telecity.net) and whatever the next hop is. That's not something your ISP (Verizon) has control over.


Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2008.12.28 17:32:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Poast Warrior
Originally by: Astro Glyde


9 184 ms 184 ms 183 ms ipt-ccp-games-1-as35834.lon3.telecity.net [217.2
0.44.138]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * *

Great fun.



That's a problem between the CCP router on telecity's network (ipt-ccp-games-1-as35834.lon3.telecity.net) and whatever the next hop is. That's not something your ISP (Verizon) has control over.




While possibly true, a large number of game servers such as CCP and Blizzard configure their routers to ignore incoming ping and traceroute packets. To the user it appears there is a problem there, however in reality the router just doesn't acknowledge the request.

His real problem is here

Quote:
1 * * * Request timed out.
2 23 ms 22 ms 23 ms L100.DSL-49.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net [96.229.38.1]



The 1st hop between his computer and router does not get through. That is a firewall issue and therefore his own problem, not CCP.

xeneon
The Illuminatii
Posted - 2008.12.28 18:41:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: xeneon on 28/12/2008 18:42:01
Send a petition requesting the devs to press the ''bug fix'' button (don't know why they haven't done that before).

Most likely it is an issue on your end.

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2008.12.28 20:30:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 28/12/2008 03:13:18
Originally by: Astro Glyde
EVE is unplayable for many of us and it has been for months. Many threads, many pages, all with the same issue and NO solution to this problem.

I'm about to lapse my subscription and I know many already have. Petitions for losses due to this are dismissed, since "your logs" show nothing. How can they when the client is broken? Countless lost drones and very expensive ships, all because you've broken something - and worse, refuse to fix it.

What say you, CCP?


Strange.. I have not had any problems at all. You sure its not an ISP problem or a router/modem problem? I have been logged in for 6-12 hours a day since christmas eve.

And yes, CCP have lost customers since before they where even founded from the words you read on forums, so I have stopped paying attention to people claiming this. I play and have fun, and let the doomsayers keep ranting, although they loose most of their credibility for the future.




yes as you can see from the op its only happening to a small minority of people so its obviously ccp's fault and no one elses.

Cyb3r Thr3at
The Scope
Posted - 2008.12.28 20:32:00 - [53]
 

I've had these same problems, but the last patch seemed to fix the issues for me with terrible lag in missions. sorry to hear that people are still having problems though.

Don Kartel
Posted - 2008.12.28 21:15:00 - [54]
 

Try using the other port EVE uses information here

Aslo Using torrents seriously screws up your latency in EVE-Online so don't use it while your playing.

shady trader
Posted - 2008.12.28 21:33:00 - [55]
 

Could it be ISP traffic shaping mistaking Eve connections for another type and then taking actions to 'Shape' the traffic as part of a large load balancing plan?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.12.28 21:38:00 - [56]
 

I was having this issue just about all summer, then I got a new modem and it went away.

sucks for you I guess, but hey I can stay on for 6 hours and not have a problem connection wise.

Mikeal Landry
Posted - 2008.12.28 21:54:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Mikeal Landry on 28/12/2008 21:54:59
Greetings,

Noted three simularities - Verizon DSL (So Cal area), Router, and disconnects after no more than 20 mins.

I had same issue. Unplugged router and went direct to the computer from the modem. Never disconnected again. I was using a Belkin N Wireless router (cable to my gamining PC, wireless to the laptop). Wifey can't roam the internet while I play, but I also rent 'chick flicks' (simularity number 4!)

Regards,

P'uck
Posted - 2008.12.28 22:45:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: P''uck on 28/12/2008 22:46:31
Wild guess: some server somewhere between the people having issues and the eve server is acting up, maybe only at some times of the day.

Whats the correct procedure for that again? Bug your isp to call those that screw up the route? I think that's how it goes.

edit: also, wasnt there another undersea cable cut recently?

Inertial
Did I just do that
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.12.28 22:48:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Astro Glyde

Likewise. This may be a relatively isolated issue but to those it affects, it's crippling. FYI, there are other threads about this already.



The fact that its not a widespread issue points to it beeing someone other than CCP being the culprit.

Originally by: Astro Glyde

My suspicion is that it's somehow router-related. Within the router, I've configured for DMZ, disabled firewall, disabled DHCP, opened ports, etc. I've even re-flashed the router, EVE still drops the connection repeatedly. As mentioned many times before, EVE is the *only* app/game that has problems. It's not the OS/hardware. EVE used to work fine, nothing on MY end has changed.
My suspicion is that it's somehow router-related. Within the router, I've configured for DMZ, disabled firewall, disabled DHCP, opened ports, etc. I've even re-flashed the router, EVE still drops the connection repeatedly. As mentioned many times before, EVE is the *only* app/game that has problems. It's not the OS/hardware. EVE used to work fine, nothing on MY end has changed.



If this was a EVE related issue it would most likely happen to a lot more people than just you and few others. And since its most likely not a EVE related issue what is CCP supposed to do with it?

The fact that EVE used to work fine doesn't mean anything really. That EVE is the only app that has problems is slightly more usefull, but again pretty useless information, because different apps connects in different ways, and besides you don't have every app ever written installed, so how do you know if EVE is the only thing that has this problem?

blashphemy
Posted - 2008.12.28 22:55:00 - [60]
 

I don't suffer from this problem, 2 different computers, 2 different ISPs. 99% guaranteed way to figure out what's causing the problem though, go through the following steps until it's fixed:

1) Direct-connect your computer to your router and try to run the client to make sure that it's not an internal network problem.
2) Bring your computer to a place with a different internet connection, may it be a neighbor with a different ISP, free internet at the library, or paying for a hotspot at Starbucks.
3) Reinstall Windows, install drivers, install EVE.
4) Buy a cheap PCI NIC from Newegg in the rare case EVE didn't like your on-board NIC.

Are these steps extreme? Yeah. But they are virtually guaranteed to fix your problem quickly, compared to the headache of posting on forums/petitioning GMs/warranties/etc. and waiting forever for a response. In fact, I set up my computer so that all my music, documents, etc. is on 1 drive and Windows and programs are on another drive, so if something gets f***ed up I can just reinstall Windows in 40 minutes, take 2 hours to install drivers and Windows updates, and take another hour to install essential programs - boom, clean Windows install in a matter of hours, solves most problems well before trying to fix a system would.


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