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Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.03 15:42:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Shadowsword
While I agree with non-consensual pvp, high-sec not being entirely safe, and so on, I must say that the current wardec system IS broken.

You declare a frigging WAR, for God's sake! If you do it, you should go all out against whoever your opponent is.

I have seen dozens of wardecs come and go, and only once did I see a group of 10+ war targets together. I have yet to see one such group actively seek a fight, instead of camping a gate.

The current wardec mechanics are just an excuse for legal piracy.

There's need for two changes, imho:

- It should give both sides more possibility for a fight. For exemple, by adding a one minute docking timer, aggro or not aggro.

- It should be much more expensive, enough to stop frivolous wardecs.

What I would do is localizing target and hunter.
The wardeccing corp reveal their member's positions while in Empire to the wardecced guys. The wardecced guys reveal their positions while in Empire to the wardeccer guys.

This way :
- no wardec just for fun.
- costly because ships will be broke
- not a source of intel for low-sec/0.0 movements

The timer change is one of many solutions among others but it won't change many things imo.
"xxx wardec your corp" : then your corp should defend themselves, hunt the hunters and so on. The hunter could avoid bigs gangs and hunt only solo ships/small gangs.

CCP could make the scan button cost 1m per blip if they want moar isk sinks.

Currently our alliance is wardecced one on two weeks. Without success at everytime... Make us willing to go duckhunt !! :) Let's bring BoB vs Goons in the Empire !


That would be idiotic with the way pvp in EVE currently is.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.01.03 15:44:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 03/01/2009 15:45:24
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Flaming Lemming
I have to disagree somewhat about this last line. If someone is fightint an actual war with you, haulers/etc. are vital targets...anyhting that can mess up logistics is important in war.


Alt corps.

A wardec has an insignifiant effect on the logistics of a 0.0 alliance.

Same here : what impact.

Every single serious 0.0 alliance use alt corps to have no impacts.

It makes individual players going back to 0.0 using their alts to haul stront/minerals from empire trade hubs.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.01.03 15:46:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Esmenet
That would be idiotic with the way pvp in EVE currently is.

Tell me why ?

KhaniKirai
Posted - 2009.01.03 15:56:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: KhaniKirai on 03/01/2009 15:59:23
Corps/alliances without an headquarter in 0.0 shouldnt even be allowed to wardec 0.0 alliances with an headquarter in 0.0

Wardec is meant to provide ways that corporations/alliances can make a war in empire.
To overcome the concord police. Thats it, nothing else to it.

But in the case of a 0.0 corps/alliance, the game already gives you all the option to make warfare to that corps. So, if you want to hit such a corps, do it in their region. There is no need to wardec them to hit them.
Of course, if a 0.0 alliance has headquarter/station themself in 0.0, they should be able to fight eachother also in empire, if they have a war going on.

On this moment, wardeccing is for 95 percent about piracing without ANY risk or efford.
These pirates pick alliances, that are in 0.0 or low sec.
So they know they wont have to fight the majority of those players, if they hit someone in empire, they know they can get easily dock on time, before any reinforcements have even time to show up.

War dec is not meant for this piracing without any risk. Its ment for corporations to fight against eachother in empire. Its not ment for 1 corporation/alliances to pick of the few members of the other alliance/corps that sometimes visit empire.

The price of these piracy wardecs should be way more costly.
The alliance/corps that gets the wardec should also in return be allowed to put prices on the head of any of the members, that are attacking them in empire.
If these wardeclaring people attack someone in empire and they get a wardec price on their head. ANY PLAYER should be able to hit these people without getting shot by concord.

I wonder if they then still pay for pirating around or will they now get scared and wet their pants, when their victim is handing out isk to put REAL bounties on their head.

It might give a whole new experience to eve: you will get hunters, that will shot down any wardeclaring corp member, that is shooting stuff in empire, IF their victim has enough isk to put bounties on their heads.


Lets see how these wardecs ruin the gameplay on this moment:

-everyone is using alt corps, that are not in anyway connected by game systems to the main alliance/corps
-everyone is staying out of empire and only using alts in empire nowadays.
-nobody really has any clue anymore who is part of which alliances, since more and more corps are being put outside an alliance, to overcome these silly wardec pirating.

I dont think, the game should force players to use such drastic measurements.
People if they are in an alliance, should have their members in that alliance and not in some alt-corps, to overcome the nonsense called: wardec in empire=license to pirate.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.01.03 16:02:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: KhaniKirai
(...) bounties (...)

Bounties system is even more broken than the wardec system. An alt of the "bountied" pilot shoot the "bountied" pilot. Tada !

Alt 64, wardec 2
Alt 56, bounty 1.

The problem is alts, nothing more guys.

PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
The Night Crew
Posted - 2009.01.03 16:17:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik on 03/01/2009 16:22:41
Originally by: Furb Killer
More proof here

fyi,

Furb captain's the flagship of the fail-armada of eve.


total whinny smacktard from my experience.



Hi-sec wars have been pretty much voided for years now, Im surprised people are still expecting non consentual pvp in hi-sec after the long list of patches and nerfs that have reigned in hi-sec pvp.

* invincible concord

* WTZ- bi product was heavy reduction of entry level wars

* privateer restriction patch

* hi-sec concord buff to stop suicide ganking

lets face it the past few years pretty much PROVES through EXAMPLE that the devs don't want to encourage non-concentual hi-sec pvp (alas to the detriment of the game imho.)

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.03 16:36:00 - [67]
 

Umh, i think most people in this topic don't get the point:

WAR DECS ARE USELESS RIGHT ****ING NOW!

proofs in pages 1 and 2

ghost st
Posted - 2009.01.04 13:07:00 - [68]
 

For the most part it fine but I think the system could use some improvement tho.

-People shouldnt be able to jump corp during a war (at least should have to wait out a 24hr timer + the 24 hr roles timer)

-You should be able to pay concord to stop the war. Lets say a corp decs you for 50m, then you can pay 50m to get the dec retracted (giving 24hrs of time for the deccing corp to respond, in which time they can pay concord moar iskies to dec ofc). Liek this

-CorpA (Deccing Corp) pays 50m to concord to wardec CorpB
-CorpB pays 50m to stop the war (deccing corp has 24hrs to respond)
-CorpA can either pay more iskies to keep the war going or let it run out.

So deccing corps can target enemy logistics, but must have thier own logistics setup to pay for a costly war)

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.04 13:43:00 - [69]
 

PaddyPaddy are you the one from gallente militia who sent me dead threats because i was nrds? Or is there any other special reason i should know you?

Wardecs are easy to evade, but also easy to make. Pay 2 million and you can shoot a week long on those miners. Riskfree pvp...

Torg Jupiter
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.04 13:47:00 - [70]
 

i'm with ghost here. war deccing a trade corps to force them to either get into a fight, or flee, is a lame excuse for cheap pirating. so we need:

1) higher costs. 50 - 100 mil per corp wardec should do.
2) bail out. paying the same sum to the authorities (concord) within 24 hrs will shoot down the war, start a 7 days cooldown time, so the attacking corp will have to pay double the fee (and so on) or go elsewhere.

let's remember ist wardec not piratedec. and that eve needs to be a place for both, dumb gankers and furry carebears (and all in between), or the game will fail. there's enough space provided for pirates, the low sec.


Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.01.04 13:57:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Xtreem on 04/01/2009 14:06:55
as it stands war decs are 2 easy to get out of

people just jump out of corp, or disband corp etc.

and i do wish people would stop saying that high sec pvp is "lesser" than 0.0 pvp

having spent 3 years or so in 0.0 and about 1 carebearing and 1 hi sec pvp i can say that empire wars are much more fun.

no need for huge blobs, and as long as you dont dec 2 man starter corps or somthing, there is nothing less manly about it, i have personally been at war with a 200+ man allaince, its not easy but very fun.

cap ships online ruined 0.0 for me, it becuase all about the moons, big cap wars and lag fest, whoch i dont find fun, dont get me wrong some regions are ok still, just as the npc 0.0 space and i go there pretty often to have fun still.

if they do make hi sec wars cost more they need to make them worth it.

costs 10 mil, then 24 hours timer for quit corp
costs 50 mil, no one can quit corp while at war.

maybe have it so you can select terms, which is done via contract.

also they could have different war costs.

ie as it is now, people can leave, disband corp etc
or you pay more, for more restrictions like i said about with the 10mill / 50 mil decs.

dont just increase the price, make it worth the increase.

war decs have been the same for coming on 6 years, why change it! dont like pvp, then play a game where u can choose not to!

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.04 14:04:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Pay 2 million and you can shoot a week long on those miners. Riskfree pvp...


2 millions? AHAHAHAH, oh wow.

now, take that number up to 3 digits, 200m is more like it.

Inari Valar
Posted - 2009.01.04 15:42:00 - [73]
 

Simple Changes:

Scaling Fees based on member #s and skillpoints
Cooldown timer to quit corp during war
Remove Local
Fix Out-of-corp logistics

The war-decs I've seen in Empire are complicated by the fact that anyone can grab an alt and get full intel on which wartargets are in the system. In 0.0, they at least have to try to get a spy into your alliance. Removing local would make it easier for targets to hide, or to ambush the attackers. It might actually become a real game of cat+mouse, instead of the standard "Try to gank solo target, see similiar or bigger sized gang, dock up and smack in local" routine.

Out of corp logistics also need to get an aggression timer for repping wartargets. The fact that they can rep in empire almost risk free isn't right. Actions should have consequences.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.01.04 17:27:00 - [74]
 

Completely remove the war deck system and people that want to fight have to actually leave empire and populate low sec.

Sounds like a solution to me

Rufus MacMaranth
Gallente
TOG Empire
Combat Mining and Logistics
Posted - 2009.01.04 18:02:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Spurty
Completely remove the war deck system and people that want to fight have to actually leave empire and populate low sec.

Sounds like a solution to me


But then the sociopaths would be unhappy ....

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.01.04 18:16:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth
But then the sociopaths would be unhappy ....


i lolled

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2009.01.04 18:32:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Concorduck
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Concorduck

Wardec is broken.
Evidence: Alliances having 15 mutual wars with 1-man corps

15 or 150 mutual wars with 1man corps make no difference.

Mutual wars have no effect on wardecs.

The reason it's so expensive is because they already have 4 wardecs active with no mutual. Meaning all those people are paying good isk to keep that wardec active.

Sorry Concorduck but you are simply an ignorant troll.


I hate trolls that can't troll. but i hate the smart people that don't know **** of what they're talking about.

Set up Alliance.
Set up Corp.
Dec the Corp. Declare Mutual.
Join Alliance.
Corp Drops Alliance, Repeat.

Now you have 136712032694615 mutual wars with Corp, that effect the alliance count of unmutual wars, since they're not considered mutual with the alliance.

Do you spot the problem now, mister Know-It-All-With-Screenies?


I spot the solution if it's using game mechanics in a way they aren't suppose to work.

F12
petition
exploit

Rolling Eyes

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2009.01.04 18:56:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: masternerdguy


nope that was never true, and i am gonna keep posting till somone agrees wit me.


Yet the sun only has enough hydrogen for another 4-5 billion years....


had to quote Malcanis' Win post, it has too much win to be ignored

SiJira
Posted - 2009.01.04 19:26:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Concorduck
Why does Wardeccing sucks so much?

it's so damn avoidable, sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

why can't we have a working wardec system?
working how? people will just stay logged off if there is no other way of avoiding it

Balrokenx
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.04 19:29:00 - [80]
 

Its a pvp game, if your just sitting in empire pve'ing your doing it wrong.

TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.01.04 19:30:00 - [81]
 

What about this,

war dec = 1B

but, when you declare someone, you automatically start a war with everyone who is (indirectly) blue standing with the said alliance, meaning, if you were to war dec bob and goon, you would wardec 95%+ of the 0.0 EVE.

hambo
Posted - 2009.01.04 19:34:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Concorduck
Originally by: Jason Edwards
wardecs are so ridiculous on so many levels.

1. they are super cheap COSTY regardless of situation and easily avoidable.
2. concord standing doesnt come into it????? CONCORD STANDING SHOULDN'T COUNT ANYTHING INGAME

since you didn't really play the game, and just started a trial to troll, i corrected your homeworks. 4/10. see you after the holidays for corrective courses.


to bad your position is so poor you had to resort to the old gramer and spelling tactic.

just rember us carebears pay subscriptions also and most of eve is low security and 0.0 land so go down there and pick a fight and let us enjoy eve also.

SiJira
Posted - 2009.01.04 19:35:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Balrokenx
Its a pvp game, if your just sitting in empire pve'ing your doing it wrong.

its a player versus player game not a first person shooter

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.04 20:31:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Concorduck on 04/01/2009 20:31:04
Originally by: hambo
Originally by: Concorduck
Originally by: Jason Edwards
wardecs are so ridiculous on so many levels.

1. they are super cheap COSTY regardless of situation and easily avoidable.
2. concord standing doesnt come into it????? CONCORD STANDING SHOULDN'T COUNT ANYTHING INGAME

since you didn't really play the game, and just started a trial to troll, i corrected your homeworks. 4/10. see you after the holidays for corrective courses.


to bad your position is so poor you had to resort to the old gramer and spelling tactic.

just rember us carebears pay subscriptions also and most of eve is low security and 0.0 land so go down there and pick a fight and let us enjoy eve also.




FAILQUOTING
please restart your post.


Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Balrokenx
Its a pvp game, if your just sitting in empire pve'ing your doing it wrong.

its a player versus player game not a first person shooter

I agree, EVE is a third person shooter

EDIT: failquote destroyed mah post :(

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.01.04 20:50:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull
By the way, flaming me is pretty useless. I live in 0.0, so I don't need a stinking wardec to go shoot people.

I just find it pathetic that so-called hardcore PvPers feel the need to stalk carebears behind wonky mechanics rather than man up and take it with the big boys.


mmm 200 man bs fleets, cap blobs, 60 man roaming gangs... no thanks. the rest is pretty much ganking carebears, it just happens to be in 0.0

pay to grief wardecs are an issue, but corp hopping/npc corps to avoid wars is just as big of an issue in my mind. the only real way to get a target is pretty much to suicide gank....

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.01.04 21:55:00 - [86]
 

since when was eve only about pvp?

If that was the case, why would there be any ships at all without offensive capability?

PVP is 'part' of the game, not 'THE' game.

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.04 21:57:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Spurty
since when was eve only about pvp?

If that was the case, why would there be any ships at all without offensive capability?

PVP is 'part' of the game, not 'THE' game.


The only ships without Offensive Capabilities are Shuttles, Freighters and Capsules. all used in logistical and intelligence gathering both in empire and 0.0

now, tell me, when did "shoot stuff" become "PVP"?

PVP is also about logistic, intelligence and tactics. every ship in game is a damn weapon

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.01.04 22:06:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
What about this,

war dec = 1B

but, when you declare someone, you automatically start a war with everyone who is (indirectly) blue standing with the said alliance, meaning, if you were to war dec bob and goon, you would wardec 95%+ of the 0.0 EVE.

If I'm TCF, I set immediatly TCF's carebear corp to +0 and tell everybody not to shoot. As we're french you'll know nothing.
It would be even worst if we were japoneese, greek, or italian speaking...

Nice idea though.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.01.04 22:08:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 04/01/2009 22:11:04
Originally by: Concorduck
Originally by: Spurty
since when was eve only about pvp?

If that was the case, why would there be any ships at all without offensive capability?

PVP is 'part' of the game, not 'THE' game.


The only ships without Offensive Capabilities are Shuttles, Freighters and Capsules. all used in logistical and intelligence gathering both in empire and 0.0

now, tell me, when did "shoot stuff" become "PVP"?

PVP is also about logistic, intelligence and tactics. every ship in game is a damn weapon

I fully agree.

Market is pvp aswell. Miners, by willing to sell their ore/production at the highest price possible are PvPers. \o/

-edit- even RPers are pvPrs "Amarrs have bigger ****s" "NO U!"

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.04 22:36:00 - [90]
 

1. Empire war is not a field of daisies for the aggressor, there is a possibility of loosing your ships. In my case, a 1 man corp shoots at corps up to 72 times my size, I loose ships.

2. All ships are fair game, freighters hold spare ships and ammo which make them fair game even if I didnt want the ransoms.

3. Highsec is near trade centers and locator agents. Spare ships at good prices are always welcome. Locator agents make the hunt for valuable targets quick and more likely to actually catch said target.


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