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Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 12:38:00 - [1]
 

Why does Wardeccing sucks so much?

it's so damn avoidable, sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

why can't we have a working wardec system?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.12.27 12:40:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Concorduck
why can't we have a working wardec system?

Because Privatears will start to cry.

Qordel
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.12.27 12:40:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Concorduck
Wardec, more like Faildec


I see what you did, there.

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 12:45:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Concorduck
why can't we have a working wardec system?

Because Privatears will start to cry.
Privateers are crying right ****ing now, wardec is avoidable at best, made impossible in some cases, and just too much exploitable.

not much for corporations (ahah oh wow) but for ALLIANCES!
HELL ALLIANCES!

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.12.27 13:40:00 - [5]
 

Non consensual PvP in hi-sec is dead. Deal with it, accept it and move on.

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 13:54:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Non consensual PvP in hi-sec is dead. Deal with it, accept it and move on.
Yeah, let's just stick with suiciding other's people mining ops

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.12.27 14:14:00 - [7]
 

wardecs are so ridiculous on so many levels.

1. they are super cheap regardless of situation.
2. concord standing doesnt come into it?????
3. it's basically griefing; which is bad for the game.
4. newbs, carebears, and others cant join together because of it.

Lets say I have 50 friends ready to become a corp. What happens? We become a big target. We get wardecced for 2mil and people use the system to kill us without ever risking themselves.

Alternatively we can form a chat channel; and be 50 corps. We all still do our thing...

Anyone who wardecs us will have a logistical nightmare to take the advantage.

Now it effectively costs over 100mil to wardec us all.


Sorry but you clearly want to use wardecs to grief people who did nothing to you. Who have so few people that it is ridiculous to be wardeccing them anyway.

Want to wardec someone... find a target of 100+ people. They will fight.

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 14:25:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
wardecs are so ridiculous on so many levels.

1. they are super cheap COSTY regardless of situation and easily avoidable.
2. concord standing doesnt come into it????? CONCORD STANDING SHOULDN'T COUNT ANYTHING INGAME
3. it's basically griefing; which is bad always good for the game.
4. newbs, carebears, and others cant join together because of it. they're caring too much about farming that they can't do anything else

Lets say I have 50 friends ready to become a corp. What happens? We become a big target. We get wardecced for 2mil and people use the system to kill us without ever risking themselves. we can easily avoid it by corp-ju8mping, joining an alliance, call mercs.

Alternatively we can form a chat channel; and be 50 corps. We all still do our thing...

Anyone who wardecs us will have a logistical nightmare to take the advantage.

Now it effectively costs over 100mil to wardec us all. and almost nothing to kill us all without the wardec.


Sorry but you clearly want to use wardecs to grief people who did nothing to you. Who have so few people that it is ridiculous to be wardeccing them anyway.

Want to wardec someone... find a target of 100+ people. They will fight flee.


since you didn't really play the game, and just started a trial to troll, i corrected your homeworks. 4/10. see you after the holidays for corrective courses.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 14:48:00 - [9]
 

Cant pay 2 million? Poor you...

Wardecs are just pay to grief atm.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.12.27 14:59:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
since you didn't really play the game

In psychology this is called projection. Where someone who is guilty of something projects in onto someone else.

I happen to have >9.5 faction standing. I have played quite a bit actually.

Quote:
and just started a trial to troll, i corrected your homeworks.

not a troll at all. I challenge you to find one inaccurate thing. Oh right "you corrected my homework" whatever that means.

Quote:
1. they are super cheap COSTY regardless of situation and easily avoidable.

Easily avoidable? Not really unless you are wardeccing people you have no business wardeccing.

Costly? You kind of misspelt that. 2million isk isnt costly. A whole 2 minutes of play and u can earn 2million isk.

Quote:
2. concord standing doesnt come into it????? CONCORD STANDING SHOULDN'T COUNT ANYTHING INGAME

why shouldnt it? The empire pirates are paying isk TO CONCORD to bribe them into allowing you to commit piracy in high sec with no disadvantages that normal piracy has.

Quote:
3. it's basically griefing; which is bad always good for the game. 4. newbs, carebears, and others cant join together because of it. they're caring too much about farming that they can't do anything else

thanks for sharing? Please dont share anymore because nobody cares.

Quote:
we can easily avoid it by corp-ju8mping, joining an alliance, call mercs.

corp jumping is legit for everyone.
Joining an alliance while wardecced is impossible.
calling mercs is legit for everyone.

Quote:
Now it effectively costs over 100mil to wardec us all. and almost nothing to kill us all without the wardec.

With no wardec we cant kill you first of all. Plus I do believe the issue isnt that of Carebears having problems wardeccing others.

Quote:
Want to wardec someone... find a target of 100+ people. They will fight flee.

they really dont. U just want to troll on the forum and cause an argument.

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 15:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
since you didn't really play the game

In psychology this is called projection. Where someone who is guilty of something projects in onto someone else.

I happen to have >9.5 faction standing. I have farmed quite a bit actually.

Quote:
and just started a trial to troll, i corrected your homeworks.

not a troll at all. I challenge you to find one inaccurate thing. Oh right "you corrected my homework" whatever that means.

Quote:
1. they are super cheap COSTY regardless of situation and easily avoidable.

Easily avoidable? Not really unless you are wardeccing people you have no business wardeccing. I have witnessed Alliances avoiding wardecs just by making it virtually impossible to sustain. would you pay 5.12 billion isk for a week of wardec?

Costly? You kind of misspelt that. 2million isk isnt costly. A whole 2 minutes of play and u can earn 2million isk. 5+ Billion isk, on the other hand, is way too much for any alliance.

Quote:
2. concord standing doesnt come into it????? CONCORD STANDING SHOULDN'T COUNT ANYTHING INGAME

why shouldnt it? The empire pirates are paying isk TO CONCORD to bribe them into allowing you to commit piracy in high sec with no disadvantages that normal piracy has. CONCORD is only a deterrent for high-sec security, nothing else. they don't even have agents.

Quote:
3. it's basically griefing; which is bad always good for the game. 4. newbs, carebears, and others cant join together because of it. they're caring too much about farming that they can't do anything else

thanks for sharing? Please dont share anymore because nobody cares. i'll share, you will either take it or walk away

Quote:
we can easily avoid it by corp-ju8mping, joining an alliance, call mercs.

corp jumping is legit for everyone. and it shouldn't, is bad as much as corp hopping from alliances
Joining an alliance while wardecced is impossible. pretending this is true is really hard, eh?
calling mercs is legit for everyone. and is a good way to make the isk go round, nothing against it.

Quote:
Now it effectively costs over 100mil to wardec us all. and almost nothing to kill us all without the wardec.

With no wardec we cant kill you first of all AHAHAHAH OH WOW, may i roll you to the -10 ss people suiciding with orcas taking out the ships they use?. Plus I do believe the issue isnt that of Carebears having problems wardeccing others.

Quote:
Want to wardec someone... find a target of 100+ people. They will fight flee.

they really dont. U just want to troll on the forum and cause an argument. another point to my "Yuo never played the game" argument.

Dr Saitek
Posted - 2008.12.27 15:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Concorduck
Why does Wardeccing sucks so much?

it's so damn avoidable, sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

why can't we have a working wardec system?


Please state the nature of the game emergency.

Unfortunately, without evidence to support your thesis either from a brief, well-written essay or a mind-meld, we are unable to confirm that there is a problem.

Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
Posted - 2008.12.27 15:32:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
I'm a big homocarebear.
If you have 50 people in your corp and are afraid of a war dec you fail. Newbs, carebears and others can join together, you are just a *****. It is not griefing in any way, it is the way the game is played. Also, anyone who logs in did something to me, they played the game, and since everything in this game is connected that is reason enough.

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 15:50:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Dr Saitek
Originally by: Concorduck
Why does Wardeccing sucks so much?

it's so damn avoidable, sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

why can't we have a working wardec system?


Please state the nature of the game emergency.

Unfortunately, without evidence to support your thesis either from a brief, well-written essay or a mind-meld, we are unable to confirm that there is a problem.


Wardec is broken.
Evidence: Alliances having 15 mutual wars with 1-man corps

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:01:00 - [15]
 

More proof here

XJennieX
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:04:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: XJennieX on 27/12/2008 16:04:33
haha and btw privateers are only good at jita station camping. everytime i have engaged them in open space with similar numbers they take it up to arse badly Twisted Evil

btw. wont post with main because of politics. Rolling Eyes

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:04:00 - [17]
 

While I agree with non-consensual pvp, high-sec not being entirely safe, and so on, I must say that the current wardec system IS broken.

You declare a frigging WAR, for God's sake! If you do it, you should go all out against whoever your opponent is.

I have seen dozens of wardecs come and go, and only once did I see a group of 10+ war targets together. I have yet to see one such group actively seek a fight, instead of camping a gate.

The current wardec mechanics are just an excuse for legal piracy.

There's need for two changes, imho:

- It should give both sides more possibility for a fight. For exemple, by adding a one minute docking timer, aggro or not aggro.

- It should be much more expensive, enough to stop frivolous wardecs.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:13:00 - [18]
 

Seriously, concord is a police force. Unless both corps *really* want to be at war, concord should do what police forces do, keep high sec safe. And even if both corps want to be at war, so what? It's high security, and concord is a policing force. Concord should purge its corruption.




Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar
Pragmatics
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:20:00 - [19]
 

What could possibly wrong with a system that produces this?

  • We war dec a two-man bunch of mining farmers: the corp members are in an Iteron and an Orca, their other accounts in NPC corp barges

  • They close the corp and open a new one

  • We war dec the new corp

  • They close the corp and open a new one

  • We war dec the new corp


So far they've closed their corp each time before the 24 hour grace period has elapsed. So there's been no fighting. They're completely safe. The fact that they're almost undoubtedly ISK sellers (or maybe they just like names like "djjfuuuf") is irrelevant, but makes it even more annoying.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:29:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: chatgris
Seriously, concord is a police force. Unless both corps *really* want to be at war, concord should do what police forces do, keep high sec safe. And even if both corps want to be at war, so what? It's high security, and concord is a policing force. Concord should purge its corruption.






I agree. We should remove concord.

rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:42:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Concorduck
Why does Wardeccing sucks so much?

it's so damn avoidable, sometimes it just doesn't make sense.

why can't we have a working wardec system?


It'll never be working. You cant force people to login.

Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:50:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Par''Gellen on 27/12/2008 16:56:57
The war dec mechanic is sound and makes sense. Used correctly it can be great fun for everyone involved.

It only fails not because CCP did anything wrong but plain and simply because there are ****ering prats in the world that want to destroy people that are doing nothing more than going about their day.

In real life they are called psychopaths and last time I checked the only place it was popular to be one (even virtually) was in the mind of a blazing idiot in dire need of being committed to a mental health facility.

"It is estimated that approximately one percent of the general population are psychopaths." (see link above with cited sources) Unfortunately Eve seems to attract that 1% like flies to dung thereby ruining the dung pile for everyone else.

"The psychopath is defined by a psychological gratification in criminal, sexual, or aggressive impulses and the inability to learn from past mistakes. Individuals with this disorder gain satisfaction through their antisocial behavior and lack remorse for their actions." Yep that pretty much says it all right there.

You my friend should seek some professional help. There are many government funded centers available in most countries. Just do a quick Google search.

Nephilius
Caldari
Pillage and Plunder Salvage Co.
Posted - 2008.12.27 16:58:00 - [23]
 

The pseudo-sociopaths here make me giggle...talking about Myspace and all that.

Malarkie
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:10:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 27/12/2008 16:56:57
The war dec mechanic is sound and makes sense. Used correctly it can be great fun for everyone involved.

It only fails not because CCP did anything wrong but plain and simply because there are ****ering prats in the world that want to destroy people that are doing nothing more than going about their day.

In real life they are called psychopaths and last time I checked the only place it was popular to be one (even virtually) was in the mind of a blazing idiot in dire need of being committed to a mental health facility.

"It is estimated that approximately one percent of the general population are psychopaths." (see link above with cited sources) Unfortunately Eve seems to attract that 1% like flies to dung thereby ruining the dung pile for everyone else.

"The psychopath is defined by a psychological gratification in criminal, sexual, or aggressive impulses and the inability to learn from past mistakes. Individuals with this disorder gain satisfaction through their antisocial behavior and lack remorse for their actions." Yep that pretty much says it all right there.

You my friend should seek some professional help. There are many government funded centers available in most countries. Just do a quick Google search.




While that is a nice post and all...he has some pretty bad entitlement issues and thus, won't actually get it.

I mean, he should be able to kill anyone he wants at anytime with any reason AND not have any repercussions. I mean...just look at him....he deserves that much. Rolling Eyes




Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:14:00 - [25]
 

I always find it amusing how 4 to 10 man corps wardec the bigger alliances to grief their empire alts. If they were really looking for action, we'd see roaming gangs in our core systems, but the only kills I see are new ships in transit with incomplete fittings, or haulers carrying material back from 0.0.

I gotta agree with the guys above, it has nothing to do with "war", its all about a license to pirate. Not that freebooters working with the blessings of the local government aren't without their historical precedent, but the least CCP could do is be real about how its "war" system is being used.

If it were really about the pewpewpew, the wardec system would only enable the PvP flag to combat ships...

Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:24:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull
I always find it amusing how 4 to 10 man corps wardec the bigger alliances to grief their empire alts. If they were really looking for action, we'd see roaming gangs in our core systems, but the only kills I see are new ships in transit with incomplete fittings, or haulers carrying material back from 0.0.

I gotta agree with the guys above, it has nothing to do with "war", its all about a license to pirate. Not that freebooters working with the blessings of the local government aren't without their historical precedent, but the least CCP could do is be real about how its "war" system is being used.

If it were really about the pewpewpew, the wardec system would only enable the PvP flag to combat ships...


I have to disagree somewhat about this last line. If someone is fightint an actual war with you, haulers/etc. are vital targets...anyhting that can mess up logistics is important in war.

Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:31:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Janu Hull on 27/12/2008 17:31:07
Originally by: Flaming Lemming
Originally by: Janu Hull
I always find it amusing how 4 to 10 man corps wardec the bigger alliances to grief their empire alts. If they were really looking for action, we'd see roaming gangs in our core systems, but the only kills I see are new ships in transit with incomplete fittings, or haulers carrying material back from 0.0.

I gotta agree with the guys above, it has nothing to do with "war", its all about a license to pirate. Not that freebooters working with the blessings of the local government aren't without their historical precedent, but the least CCP could do is be real about how its "war" system is being used.

If it were really about the pewpewpew, the wardec system would only enable the PvP flag to combat ships...


I have to disagree somewhat about this last line. If someone is fightint an actual war with you, haulers/etc. are vital targets...anyhting that can mess up logistics is important in war.


I agree, and in an all out war the likes of which you see in 0.0 space, this is a very valid point.

In terms of the wardec and its applications in practice as seen in empire space, though, its far from the allspanning conflict that would make logistics attacks a part of an overall strategy. In these cases, aside from ganks of opportunity, its all about stalking the logistics haulers to near exclusion of all other things.

In essence, yes, the option exists to attack any ship the alliance flies, but they're focusing soley on the part where they can make a significant amount of money from the fallout. In that case, its not being used to declare war on the alliance, just to open the door to some easy money without CONCORD's interference.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:31:00 - [28]
 

Maybe half the declared wars I've been in have been about free PvP. The rest were in an attempt to either disrupt the targets' productivity, while other times it was someone deccing whatever corp I was in to disrupt ours.

Don't kill war decs just because some people use them as an excuse for High Sec PvP without CONCORD intervention, and IF the war dec system gets changed to make it harder for people to carry out a war you also need to change it so it becomes more difficult for people in the other corp to flee the dec by corp hopping, etc.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.12.27 17:35:00 - [29]
 

War decs are fine. If you're complaining about them, you don't understand what they're for.

We utilize war decs constantly to dismantle corps and any messing with the system will probably break it.


Dr Saitek
Posted - 2008.12.27 18:00:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Concorduck

Wardec is broken.
Evidence: Alliances having 15 mutual wars with 1-man corps


Perhaps a two-tiered wardec system would be more appropriate where corp wardecs are treated independently from alliance wardecs. Of course, alliances would need to pay a significantly larger amount to wardec a corp or alliance, since alliance wars have a greater chance of disrupting local doughnut supplies.

The two-tiered wardec system would now require an alliance to maintain mutual wars with both 1-man corps and 1-man alliances, thereby costing a significant amount of coffee ISKies to remain "safe". To make it fair, the total costs for Perpetual Wardec Alliance would also go up. A lose-lose for everyone! (except those corps and alliances that have real grievances or mercs who have a limited number of clients)


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