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WidowMaker IX
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 09:03:00 - [1]
 

I am not talking politics here as much as social issues but,

I lived in the UK when I was young my father was doing his studies at university over their at that time. I have also went back and forth for quite some time then stopped during my college years.

I just came back from London on a business trip, and wow, so many cameras, so many new laws, crimes of stabbing on the TV, hell I saw kids showing of their MG42 on the TV!!!. Gang wars in the UK!!

Let alone rights like not able to smoke any where in the airport not even a smoking room in the entire Heathrow airport!!

And I come from a Middle Eastern country, with a dictatorship regime ffs!!.

This scares me b/c the only glimmer of hope we had was looking at the west for civil liberties issues and now I just donít understand how did the people let this happen?!

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2008.12.22 09:09:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: WidowMaker IX
how did the people let this happen?!



Because a lot of us Brits have a "mustn't rock the boat" attitude. We grumble about it down the pub with our mates, but would never dream of doing anything about it.

Davina Braben
Posted - 2008.12.22 09:11:00 - [3]
 

Because our media are a bunch of alarmist nitwits who like to make out it's the last days of Rome.

KrampfyV1
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.12.22 09:38:00 - [4]
 

i read the title before the main post and quickly ran to look out the window Embarassed

AmosTrask
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.22 09:46:00 - [5]
 

IMO

When it became apparent that the war against drugs was lost (round about the same time as 9/11 and 7/7) the goverment decided it was time for a full retreat of all forces.
Police have been taken off the streets and replaced with special constables, this is basicly a normal citizen with no powers of arrest and no warrent card...wait theres more...they do have something and thats a direct line to the emergency services because phoning 999 is pretty much useless "belive me",in the last 5 years i have reported 3 crimes and one fire (in my own back garden set by the local youths) none even the fire recived a response.
It seems to be that everyone is on or has tried drugs now(oh how harmless is pot really, have you seen the state of the local hoodies,better still tried to talk to them).
So whats happened to the local bobby hes trapped in beaurocrasy behind his desk,like the rest of uk social services finding new ways to hit their targets without actually doing anything.

Mankirks Wife
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:01:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: AmosTrask
phoning 999 is pretty much useless "belive me",in the last 5 years i have reported 3 crimes and one fire (in my own back garden set by the local youths) none even the fire recived a response.


OK, I don't like in the UK and I've never been there, but if the cops don't give a ****, why can't you just beat the hoodlums senseless with a crowbar or a bat or something? (in the US we use guns, but that's here and not there) If the cops don't give a **** about you they're surely not going to a **** about some miscreant.

WidowMaker IX
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:09:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mankirks Wife

OK, I don't like in the UK and I've never been there, but if the cops don't give a ****, why can't you just beat the hoodlums senseless with a crowbar or a bat or something? (in the US we use guns, but that's here and not there) If the cops don't give a **** about you they're surely not going to a **** about some miscreant.


Not sure and correct me if I am wrong,

But in the UK if you kill some one who assaults you house you will be trailed for murder.

AmosTrask
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:15:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mankirks Wife
Originally by: AmosTrask
phoning 999 is pretty much useless "belive me",in the last 5 years i have reported 3 crimes and one fire (in my own back garden set by the local youths) none even the fire recived a response.


OK, I don't like in the UK and I've never been there, but if the cops don't give a ****, why can't you just beat the hoodlums senseless with a crowbar or a bat or something? (in the US we use guns, but that's here and not there) If the cops don't give a **** about you they're surely not going to a **** about some miscreant.



Because most street crimes are committed by prepubescent teens that roam in gangs and the cosequences of fighting back have been made clear with death and a small pic of you in the paper branding you as a have-a-go-hero and how everyone should feel sorry for your kids.

AmosTrask
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:18:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: WidowMaker IX
Originally by: Mankirks Wife

OK, I don't like in the UK and I've never been there, but if the cops don't give a ****, why can't you just beat the hoodlums senseless with a crowbar or a bat or something? (in the US we use guns, but that's here and not there) If the cops don't give a **** about you they're surely not going to a **** about some miscreant.


Not sure and correct me if I am wrong,

But in the UK if you kill some one who assaults you house you will be trailed for murder.



Well "man slaughter" not murder but it can carry the same sentence.

Vistilantus
Caldari
Vitriol Ventures
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:21:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Vistilantus on 22/12/2008 10:27:57
Originally by: AmosTrask
IMO

When it became apparent that the war against drugs was lost (round about the same time as 9/11 and 7/7) the goverment decided it was time for a full retreat of all forces.
Police have been taken off the streets and replaced with special constables, this is basicly a normal citizen with no powers of arrest and no warrent card...wait theres more...they do have something and thats a direct line to the emergency services because phoning 999 is pretty much useless "belive me",in the last 5 years i have reported 3 crimes and one fire (in my own back garden set by the local youths) none even the fire recived a response.
It seems to be that everyone is on or has tried drugs now(oh how harmless is pot really, have you seen the state of the local hoodies,better still tried to talk to them).
So whats happened to the local bobby hes trapped in beaurocrasy behind his desk,like the rest of uk social services finding new ways to hit their targets without actually doing anything.



Special Constables have the exact same training and powers as full Police Constables. The only difference is, we do it on a voluntary basis. We DO NOT get paid. (there is a £1,000 gift if you do a certain number of hours (over the year) and have an "SC" instead of "PC" on our shoulder badge.
http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/specials/overview.html

I agree with your last statement though, the police are tied with the beuracratic (sp) red tape, that annoys many of us as-well as the public.

EDIT - We also have warrant cards and have the powers of arrest that this brings while off duty.
You're probably thinking of PCSO's who have some, but little, police powers. (PCSO's cannot arrest)

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:22:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Mankirks Wife
Originally by: AmosTrask
phoning 999 is pretty much useless "belive me",in the last 5 years i have reported 3 crimes and one fire (in my own back garden set by the local youths) none even the fire recived a response.


OK, I don't like in the UK and I've never been there, but if the cops don't give a ****, why can't you just beat the hoodlums senseless with a crowbar or a bat or something? (in the US we use guns, but that's here and not there) If the cops don't give a **** about you they're surely not going to a **** about some miscreant.


It's not that they don't care but it's simpler for the police to go after law abiding citizens so if you actually do anything then you're screwed. See, if you arrest a chav then you can't do anything with them, they don't tell you anything, get violent and the rest of their pack are the same. If you manage to find where they live then you're walking into deep trouble because they all have an instinctive violent hatred for the police. This isn't only the kids, the adults are just as bad but bigger and stronger.
They live in maze-like nests sometimes upto a thousand strong and interbreeding is commonplace.
They are an infestation, locusts gnawing at the structure of the country who can't be reasoned with.
They flaunt laws because frankly they aren't smart enough to understand such abstract concepts as "Right and wrong" or "Ownership". They should just be put out of their misery to be honest.

As such, it is impossible for the police to deal with them. Human beings however can be dealt with and for some reason it's a serious offence to try to do anything to these vermin and you will be punished.
So nobody does anything and the problem grows.

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:28:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: WidowMaker IX
-snip-
I just donít understand how did the people let this happen?!

*rant warning* - sorry -

Well if you had been in the school system here from around 1970's you would have been fed a constant supply of leftist socialism mixed up with bizarre white angst about what the UK did to the rest of the world, women, and [insert ethnic -sic- minority group] in the last 1000 years.

Around the same time the same sort of people running the school system got control of local government, and certain central government and quango type bodies. Where they started implementing their views into what's now our current status quo.

What you see here now is 30 years of dedicated undermining of our society through a string of failed policies (multicultural Briton and the Human rights act being my current favorite) that the majority of the UK population never voted for. Like most other democratic -sic- societies, the government get in on a majority of the minority voting.

Naturally a lot of people seem to have missed this as they've been very focused on buying into a consumer society while all this was going on. Must have my SKY+, must have a bread maker, must have a steam powered paint stripper, must have a BMW M3 convertible, must have.. a record or TV contract..

We've also been force fed the cult of the celebrity for pretty much the last 15 years solid too.

I was born in London, lived there for 30 years, and am very happy that I moved to the country but in hind-sight I've realized I didn't move far enough, and, sadly, that's one of the reasons why the changes have happened. The people who've seen what's gone on don't feel we can fight back. So we leave.. to France, to Spain, to the states, Canada, Australia, frankly anywhere but here.

-rant over-
It's possibly not as bad as I make out but sometimes it feels like it's worse too.


Taradis
Amarr
The Imperial Assassins
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:30:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Davina Braben
Because our media are a bunch of alarmist nitwits who like to make out it's the last days of Rome.


Sounds like US media they can all fuk off n die lousy story twisting morons

AmosTrask
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Vistilantus
Edited by: Vistilantus on 22/12/2008 10:21:40


Special Constables have the exact same training and powers as full Police Constables. Source : I am one. The only difference is, we do it on a voluntary basis. We DO NOT get paid. (there is a £1,000 gift if you do a certain number of hours (over the year) and have an "SC" instead of "PC" on our shoulder badge.
http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/specials/overview.html

I agree with your last statement though, the police are tied with the beuracratic (sp) red tape, that annoys many of us as-well as the public.

EDIT - We also have warrant cards and have the powers of arrest that this brings while off duty.


Don't you have to wait for a pc to arrive to make a full arrest?
And i have been misinformed about the warrent cards then but was told this by a pc a family freind a few years ago so things may have changed.

Lord Zoran
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:31:00 - [15]
 

yup sux here in the uk but not as if anyones gna do anything about it.... they'll prolly get stabbed....

Vistilantus
Caldari
Vitriol Ventures
BLACK-MARK
Posted - 2008.12.22 10:35:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: AmosTrask
Originally by: Vistilantus
Edited by: Vistilantus on 22/12/2008 10:21:40


Special Constables have the exact same training and powers as full Police Constables. Source : I am one. The only difference is, we do it on a voluntary basis. We DO NOT get paid. (there is a £1,000 gift if you do a certain number of hours (over the year) and have an "SC" instead of "PC" on our shoulder badge.
http://www.policecouldyou.co.uk/specials/overview.html

I agree with your last statement though, the police are tied with the beuracratic (sp) red tape, that annoys many of us as-well as the public.

EDIT - We also have warrant cards and have the powers of arrest that this brings while off duty.


Don't you have to wait for a pc to arrive to make a full arrest?
And i have been misinformed about the warrent cards then but was told this by a pc a family freind a few years ago so things may have changed.


No, Special Constables (In Scotland anyway, i don't think it would be different in England / Wales / Northern Ireland, but i may be wrong) In Scotland SC's have full police powers, we ARE fully fledged Police Officers, we just do it for free.


Rob Z0mbie
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:12:00 - [17]
 

welp :\

it looks like the whole world's on a proper downslope... its no easy but, yeah :\

7shining7one7
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:20:00 - [18]
 

so you're saying you don't like the new world order of freedom? you must be al qaeda!

Northern Fall
Minmatar
British Legion
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:27:00 - [19]
 

Thats because we're turning into a nation of wannabe gangsters, and most of our kids know the police as the "LAPD" as a result of listening to too much rap.

AND on top of that, the police have to fill in a small holy books worth of paperwork to be able to leave the station.

I want ashes to ashes style policing!

WidowMaker IX
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:28:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: WidowMaker IX on 22/12/2008 11:33:42
Originally by: Dr Slaughter


*snip
-rant over-
It's possibly not as bad as I make out but sometimes it feels like it's worse too.




Well regarding teenagers and stabbings, I can attribute it to bad parents, social corruption or which seems most apparent here is a broken law system.

I donít think people are better than other people based on their religion, ethnicity, or country of origin. But its wise rules that should govern the people not a cookie cutter system.

I do not agree with many of the rules in hard core conservative countries like Saudi Arabia, but to some extent thy work. I am pretty sure you can leave a Million USD$ in plain site in a mall in Jeddah and no one will touch it. Is it b/c they are better people ?! I donít think so, its just that you will be carrying your hand in a frame if you do so.
Quick simple it works and saves a crap load of tax payers money on the 5 star resorts you call prisons.

And about those Chavís issue, we had a similar issue in the late 80s, where a large foreign group decided to create a sub government, with their own rules, own courts, and tax system even. So we called in a Special Forces division and used air strikes. It never happened again.

We have a very high ratio of assault rifles per person here, the last shooting happened 3 years ago, and the one before it was 6 years ago, all of which where publicly executed by firing squad. I think itís a low number b/c of good understanding of discipline with firearms, since we donít get gym in High school, but we get military training 1 day per week and a 1.5 months during your summer vacation and you get paid for it as well Very Happy

Zero tolerance on drugs, dealers get a death sentence, users get 10 years + rehab. And it works.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:37:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 22/12/2008 11:39:25

I blame the news.

No, seriously, I do. Our media right now has this fascination with massively blowing a few select little things out of proportion.

You know what's the second most common factor in British murders? Gambling. People rack up huge debts with loan sharks who then have to save face when they can't get the money back because the idiot they gave it to lost it all on gambling. Sounds like a movie, happens on an alarmingly regular basis... and doesn't get covered in the news at all.

If you go by our news, the only three things that matter right now are recession, "Baby P", and knife crime (oh, and strictly come dancing and X factor). A few years ago, it was terrorism, Madeleine McCann and Jean Charles de Menezes.

The media picks up on things like that, massively inflate their importance (okay, so yeah the de Menezes case was pretty important) and the result is a weigh of massively uninformed public opinion pressuring to government to act and act now.

The result is rushed decision-making in parliament, leading to unwise laws and legislation that are just going to snowball into another problem five or six years down the line.

Wonderfully, it's all reflected in a growing cultural paranoia. the British people are simultaneously clamouring for their government to "fix" every last little hiccup in the country, and screaming in outrage at the first whiff of anything even remotely Orwellian.

Ever tried herding cats? Try herding schizophrenic ones and you might come close to the task facing the poor bastards who have to try and run this country.

but: I like the smoking bans. Those were, IMO, a damned fine idea. The air smells cleaner, more people have quit smoking, less people have started, less people are having asthma attacks or developing chest infections from breathing somebody else's smoke...

People have been screaming about "freedom", but the irony is that, because of the smoking bans, I'm freer now than I used to be, because I can go out without getting a face full of somebody's horrible cigarette smoke every thirty seconds. And the same is true for the overwhelming majority of the people in this country who don't smoke.

So you've lost the right to kill yourself slowly in public. Big deal - the other fifty million of us have gained the right to breathe cleaner air. Fair trade, IMO.

WidowMaker IX
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:56:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Stitcher

So you've lost the right to kill yourself slowly in public. Big deal - the other fifty million of us have gained the right to breathe cleaner air. Fair trade, IMO.


First I donít smoke, my business partner dose though, I quit quite some time ago and donít like the smell of it.

But for me I see it from a different view, first its smoking though new research in passive smoking says the first tests where unscientific and hugely pushed out of proportion. Thatís on the health side.

Now I also donít drink, if itís a matter of convenience, I donít like the smell of it as well, nor how people react when they are under the Ö.(you see where I am going). I also donít like car fumes which studies have showed have a much harder hitting effect than Actual smoking. Also junk food yes junk food that will prolly be the next big killer after smoking and of the shelf drugs. You know what they say that vitamins also shorten your life span so ban fruits as well.

Take off your clothes and shoes, walk on the red line in a single fold, and drop your liquid in the red bag, do not smoke, drive, you have been randomly selected for a search. But hay we cant do any thing about 2 14 year olds stabbing each other to death in the middle of the street.

Captain Hudson
Caldari
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2008.12.22 12:11:00 - [23]
 

THE SKY IS FALLING

Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.22 12:47:00 - [24]
 

If you want to do something about it, go join the political party that you most agree with and try and do something about it. Feral/thuggish children have been a constant problem in Britain since the Second World War. There is pretty much no solution that adds on to what we have now. Getting more police on the streets, reducing the powers of the quango regime in local councils and generally giving Britain a good kicking should be priorities for the Home Office.

Of course, this won't happen because everybody in the Labour party is running around in Panic mode. And everybody is going to vote for yet another sideways-moving Conservative government.

Arianhod
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2008.12.22 12:58:00 - [25]
 

My first General election I have been old enough to vote in, I will probably be voting LibDem....

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 13:20:00 - [26]
 

Widowmaker, the point I was making is that inconvenience for the minority only happens at the profit of the majority. That's democracy.

If the majority perceive themselves as being inconvenienced, they vote against. If the majority stand to profit, they vote for. It's a pretty simple equation, really - one that does not automatically add up to George Orwell.

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2008.12.22 14:44:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Widowmaker, the point I was making is that inconvenience for the minority only happens at the profit of the majority. That's democracy.

If the majority perceive themselves as being inconvenienced, they vote against. If the majority stand to profit, they vote for. It's a pretty simple equation, really - one that does not automatically add up to George Orwell.


When did we vote to give banks a huge chunk of tax money? When did we vote to extend pre-charge detention to 42 days? When did we vote to sell all of Britain's gold at the lowest possible price? In fact, when did we vote for El Gordo to be our PM?

innot
Minmatar
MAFIA
Posted - 2008.12.22 15:39:00 - [28]
 

Quick everyone move to iceland!!!...Oh wait Twisted Evil

WidowMaker IX
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.22 15:40:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: WidowMaker IX on 22/12/2008 15:41:22
Originally by: ReaperOfSly

When did we vote to give banks a huge chunk of tax money? When did we vote to extend pre-charge detention to 42 days? When did we vote to sell all of Britain's gold at the lowest possible price? In fact, when did we vote for El Gordo to be our PM?


this to be honest, when did you vote for the war on Iraq, or the smoking ban?

You donít vote for what you want, you vote for a Person that promises you what you want. And thatís the BEST case.

Is that really democracy? I donít know really, they do have some Polls to see what the people think about a subject, but I am pretty sure no one here got that, or evin understand how that works.

This whole WMD thing in Iraq for example looking at it without Any political input, was done in plain sight, and they laugh about it and no one will go to jail over it, many counties that went to that war where democratic, but I have yet to see any of the people say it was a good idea.

How much in control are you is the question?

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2008.12.22 15:45:00 - [30]
 

A wise man once said, repeat a lie enough times and it becomes the truth, media have been projecting a crap world to the masses for so long. I blame british media and tabloids being allowed to molest the truth unpunished. Punishment is here.


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