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blankseplocked [VIDEO/DOCU] The Clarion Call - Triage Special
 
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Jacob Ventas
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.07 01:42:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Sard Caid
This video represents all of Foundati0n I dislike and really what makes their fleets what they are in fights: their cap support.

I'm with the Bears in that I hate what carriers bring to my form of PvP, however this video portrayed something else. This is the tactics game shown in brilliant illumination, which is rarely done with capital ships.

Great music, awesome narration, and excellent editing. Together, especially with with the A+ narration, this is a top video of '08. A must see, especially for those that dislike capitals in PvP, as this puts an entirely different light on their use on the battlefield for those that aren't familiar with them.

Encore Lord Maldoror, encore!


QFT: more of the same please, nice to see capital vid with tactics.

JudasMac
Minmatar
Dark Star Cartel
Molotov Coalition
Posted - 2009.01.07 02:20:00 - [92]
 

I could watch these all day. Great vid!

Cristinutza
Posted - 2009.01.09 11:28:00 - [93]
 

Being an FDN pilot that has had the supreme pleasure of being on the recieving end of triage carrier support I would like to state that it has added an entirely new element to my pvp enjoyment level. there is nothing like the feeling of freedom while in battle to move around the field in a battleship knowing that as long as you stay in range of triage you can fly and attack at will. It takes the normally one dimensional feeling(battle starts and you have to hold in range of spider tanking, normally sitting still and shooting targets from a non moving position) of fights and allows you to freely fight in a more lively enviroment.

Kudos to all our triage pilots for keeping us up and fighting, as the video shows its no easy task. to LM and Pa once again a great video, I hope to see more in the future, I know they take a huge effort to put together but we all appreciate them.

Cristi

Xaeon
Invicta.
Posted - 2009.01.09 13:42:00 - [94]
 

It was different, and different was good.
Nicely done Smile

Franga
NQX Innovations
Posted - 2009.01.10 07:13:00 - [95]
 

I loved it. When things work and click into place, it's just beautiful. And catching it on fraps is even better.

Larkonis Trassler
Doctrine.
Posted - 2009.01.12 14:23:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 12/01/2009 16:04:18
Really nice work, good vid. I still view Triage as a suicide mod, and your losses are testament to this... BUT, if you're having fun and it's getting you good kills and good fights then fair play, it's certainly something different.

BTW the Nyx pilot with the DCUs needs a slap.

*EDIT

Makes me want to train for it too tbh.

Koibito
Caldari
Collective Caldari Corporation
Luminance Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.14 12:24:00 - [97]
 

:D awesome!

nice video style + nice voice as usual ;D

greez to valdor \o/

love you PA xD

Sivona
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2009.01.14 22:44:00 - [98]
 

nice to see triage used - it is actually quite used but those pilots tend to not announce it due to their sitting duck status (triaging in front of 60-70 enemy caps is a nervous experience enough as it is).

Why use a thanatos though its inferior for triage work compared to the nidhogger that can be setup with stronger cap performance and far superior tank?

Nice video :)

Sgt Jinxed
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.01.15 00:23:00 - [99]
 

Awesome vid.
Loved the commentary as well.

Kenneth McCoy
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.01.15 04:21:00 - [100]
 

dooooownloaaading

Red Rose
Thundercats
Posted - 2009.01.15 21:05:00 - [101]
 

<3 it

Fancisco Nyx
Gallente
Gewehre Fur Einstellung Industries
Posted - 2009.01.15 22:06:00 - [102]
 

Great vid, and TY for having an alternative to eve files for the download.

Alazais
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2009.01.17 03:36:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Sivona
nice to see triage used - it is actually quite used but those pilots tend to not announce it due to their sitting duck status (triaging in front of 60-70 enemy caps is a nervous experience enough as it is).

Why use a thanatos though its inferior for triage work compared to the nidhogger that can be setup with stronger cap performance and far superior tank?

Nice video :)



IMO the best all-round triage carrier is the Archon. In terms of raw cap the AT carriers go Archon > Thanatos > Nidhoggur. The combination of the tanking bonus and the extra slot, combined with having the best (base) cap makes the Archon perfect for the many situations where you're tanking yourself and simultaneously repping the fleet (as shown in the vid, indeed). Granted, the Archon can't also shield rep like the Thanatos or Nid.

But in a situation where death was inevitable if primed, I'd use a Nidhoggur to make the most of the juicy repping bonus while stealthily in triage.

The reason I wasn't using an Archon in the vid is simply that I don't have carrier V on Amarr - when you're immobile those extra few km are so useful - you can bet you'll need to rep someone at 51km otherwise Twisted Evil Glad you liked the vid :)

TriDane
Gallente
Corp 1 Allstars
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.01.18 08:08:00 - [104]
 

would love to c it in lower res for those of us with computers which are not up to scratch for the mega HD high res version!

Would be great - also people who dont want to wait ages on DL.

Thanks.

edensson
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.01.18 11:48:00 - [105]
 

argh, wish my connection was faster, i really want to see this vid!!! oops bump...

Sivona
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2009.01.19 02:11:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Alazais


IMO the best all-round triage carrier is the Archon. In terms of raw cap the AT carriers go Archon > Thanatos > Nidhoggur. The combination of the tanking bonus and the extra slot, combined with having the best (base) cap makes the Archon perfect for the many situations where you're tanking yourself and simultaneously repping the fleet (as shown in the vid, indeed). Granted, the Archon can't also shield rep like the Thanatos or Nid.

But in a situation where death was inevitable if primed, I'd use a Nidhoggur to make the most of the juicy repping bonus while stealthily in triage.

The reason I wasn't using an Archon in the vid is simply that I don't have carrier V on Amarr - when you're immobile those extra few km are so useful - you can bet you'll need to rep someone at 51km otherwise Twisted Evil Glad you liked the vid :)


Losing the instant rep hit of the shield transfer is surely not ideal - to often i save people because shield rep is applied giving them just enough hp for armour to cycle onto them. I'll chat in game later when you get a chance? :)

Alazais
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2009.01.19 04:36:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Sivona

Losing the instant rep hit of the shield transfer is surely not ideal - to often i save people because shield rep is applied giving them just enough hp for armour to cycle onto them. I'll chat in game later when you get a chance? :)



It's good to talk triage Cool

I'd say it all depends on situation; for mixed gang support instant hit on shield is nice but for dedicated armour tanking BS you'd still need double remote reps.

Think about it this way: let's say the ship you need to rep has 12k armour with 70% resists. A triage rep cycles in 2.5 seconds. So let's say worst case (or close to, given reaction time) you get rep to him in 5 seconds.


If he were to die in under 5 seconds it means he's taking over 8000 damage a second, because (12,000/0.3)/5 = 8000dps.


But if he's taking 8000dps, because he has no shield resists, even with the Nid bonus, the combination of cap shield + cap armour wouldn't keep him up.


You would need 2 capital armour reps in that situation. They do 1200hp/s on an Archon (more on a Nid), so:

2400 rep on a 70% resist, 2400/0.3 = 8000dps tanked and he'd just stay up.


If he dies faster than 5 seconds, you wouldn't be able to keep him up anyway because of the dps that entails, so the instant hit wouldn't help (and half the rep would be on unresisted hitpoints anyway).



In the video almost all of the ships are armour repping BS with 75%+ resist so they're tanking vast dps and anything that could kill them before the hit, even with target switching, would mathematically overwhelm the tankable dps anyway (even though it's higher than some dreads).


However, if you're in a situation where a single triage armour rep would keep up the person, then having a mix of shield + armour is great because you get the instant hit and after that the tank will hold anyway. So if I'm just warping to a gate to rep some mixed support (esp. hacs, t2 cruisers, etc.) I sometimes do have shield + armour. But for the heavy duty repping I prefer the dual armour reps - because, given the fast cycle time of triage, anything that can beat your cycle time can beat your tankable DPS too, assuming the ships are custom fitted for the op.

One thing I love using capital shield for is situations where there is overwhelming rep on the field (e.g. from many other caps) and the issue is simply delay in getting it to people - triage Nids and Chimeras are great for buffering early damage with shield. This is of course another variation of the situation where one capital armour rep can keep them up and one capital shield rep laps up the damage before the armour hits.

So it all depends what you're doing, and whether your ships are kitted around you, or whether you're landing on a gate to assist assorted ships of mixed tanking, resists, classes, etc.

Shield transfer on the Nid/Thana/Chim is definitely good in the right situations (and obviously some people might shield tank their BS fleets anyway). In the specific situations in the video I'd use dual armour if I was using a Nid. But overall if someone was only training one triage carrier, the reason I'd say the Archon makes the best case, is simply because so often you end up having to deal with split fire, and you need to simultaneously tank both locally and remote (as seen in the video). This happens in many of the triage fights I get into and the Archon has the most cap and also saves the most cap in such situations by it's slot layout and resists. But like any tool in Eve it has to be tailored to the fleet it keeps alive, or the fleet be tailored to it.


Belgarius
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.20 12:12:00 - [108]
 

possible to put up the music files into eve-files?

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2009.01.21 14:34:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Nyphur on 21/01/2009 22:20:47

This is epic, I keep watching it and listening to it in the background.
I particularly love the way this video emphasises that EVE is like a game of Poker where you don't show your whole hand straight away. You field the carrier in triage and the enemy pops dreads on you, then you pop dreads on them. You force your enemy to escalate and show their hand before showing your own true force, and that's a big part of good fleet combat in EVE.

It's sad because I really do want to use a carrier in Triage mode but it does still seem like suicide, especially where we are in Faction Warfare. We've killed every carrier we've come across in a fleet, Triage or not. There has been no major engagment in FW where the use of a carrier has been successful and it has survived. It would be a different story if they were sometimes successful but literally every single time we've encounted it, the tactic fails and the carrier gets killed. It doesn't help that a neutraliser battleship can kill 150 cap/sec and a Triage carrier is very cap sensitive.

I always thought it was silly that to be even slightly effective in Triage, a carrier has to fit almost all of its mods for cap recharge and have very few slots left for a tank. I always figured Triage should reduce the cap usage of normal reps and boosters by 50% since unlike a dread they need that cap for remote reps. Considering the average Triage carrier can currently only tank about 7k before combat boosters, it doesn't seem right that they use up most of their generated capacitor to do so. As a matter of course, if the enemy pop a dread or two the carrier is basically dead regardless of its tank. Does anyone who has actually used Triage feel the same way or does the Triage carrier feel like it actually can tank enough when used on the battlefield? Like I said, the only ones I've encountered so far went down rather rapidly and didn't really help their fleet that much.

EDIT: By the way, I've been meaning to ask. Would a shield tanked setup for the Thanatos not be superior? Since you can't be remote repped in triage mode, your armour resists shouldn't be an issue. And not only are two repairers replaceable by one booster but each low slot is worth more cap than each med slot. Using 4 mids and with the lows full of beta relays, you can get a slightly stronger tank on the thanatos in shield than the equivalent 4 low slot armour setup. And even though the shield uses more cap, you do end up generating extra cap in excess of that difference. But more importantly, when you're not self-tanking you have more cap for the remote reps and when you're running nothing the cap will regenerate much faster.

So is armour primarily chosen due to the chance of making a lucky escape by dropping out of triage just in time and being remote repped? Or is it the lack of micromanagement in repping armour? Or is there some other reason I'm not getting?

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.03 01:19:00 - [110]
 

This is the way PvP videos should be. Impressive work both on the field and in the editing suite! Very Happy

Taldarin
Gallente
He's Pointed
Posted - 2009.02.03 05:24:00 - [111]
 

Very good vid. One of them vids like the old MC one a few years back that had heaps of MS action in it.

Good promo vid to rope mates into playing.

Will take thanny out for more than 1000dps of glory.

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.02.05 01:08:00 - [112]
 

i would have loved to be in that fight, very awesome vid and tactic :)

rantuket
Caldari
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Merciless.
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:27:00 - [113]
 

nice vid buddy, keep them coming!

Taosst
X-PERTS
Black Legion.
Posted - 2009.02.07 14:39:00 - [114]
 

Excellent video. Great quality both of video and the entire production. Commentary was great. The whole video left me wanting more, so keep up the great work !

Shirley Estyre
Posted - 2009.02.09 04:47:00 - [115]
 

i hate you!

Now i don't wanna be an highsec dweller anymore. ugh

Twisted Evil

Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Dead poets society
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:26:00 - [116]
 

Fascinating stuff.

Awesome vid! :D

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2009.02.11 01:12:00 - [117]
 

Wow, that was crazy

almost makes me want to train for Caps Sad

Lelouch DeGilead
Amarr
Elanus Risk Control
Cognitive Distortion
Posted - 2009.02.11 12:21:00 - [118]
 

Downloaded weeks before commenting.

This video just inspired me to train for capital ships again. Perhaps it's worth training for a Battleship V skill to indulge myself in epic cap battles.

Keep it up. I can't wait to see more of Triage/carrier action!

Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.19 23:36:00 - [119]
 

Looking forward to any future videos like this, very interesting stuff!

Zakarazor
Amarr
Inadeptus Mechanicus
Posted - 2009.02.20 13:39:00 - [120]
 

great vid dude. putting triage on my carrier training list now^^


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