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Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.12.19 18:25:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Cyprus Black on 19/12/2008 18:29:22
Originally by: Squirrrel
I love the way that anyone who you disagree with are trolls. Rolling Eyes
Well what can I say, I don't like trolls Very Happy.

And so far it's only been the trolls who are demanding a list. I haven't heard a single reasonable and rational explanation yet as to why anyone needs a witch hunting list except for the sole purpose of trolling. They've made little attempt to mask their intentions, what with all the accusations and personal attacks. All these attacks do is reinforce the purpose of this thread.

But please, if you have a genuine need for such a list with a use other than trolling, then post it here (assuming you're able to do so with a straight face).


Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.12.19 19:57:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 19/12/2008 19:59:37

What privacy rights are you raving about? Pixels have no privacy rights. I would understand if people were asking for the real names and addresses - concern can be raised that way. But, certainly not for the names of fictional characters in fictional corporations.

Also, as I said before, the exploit is just too magnificent in its scope to be limited in any way to just one or two entities. Because of its size, CCP must disclose to the rest of the EVE community those who participated, to do otherwise would invite too many accusations of misconduct. And, unfortunately, we can not rely on CSM to tell us the truth because CCP has the "banstick of NDA" hanging over them, and tells them what they can and can not say to us.


Now, it is also in human nature to want to know the truth. It is very much natural that criminals in the world outside of EVE, once it is determined that they are criminals, do not enjoy any type or right of privacy regarding the crime they have committed, and their names are available to the public upon request.

What has happened here was criminal in terms of EVE. They have subverted a system, they have gained advantage which is not available to the rest of the community, and they have put that advantage to work to systematically achieve their goals in the game which is all about competition.

Anyone who says that they "do not want to know" are not telling the truth, to put it mildly. I would compare it to someone saying " I do not want to know what heinous crime that criminal committed, because it does not matter to me, even if he is a recidivist and might murder my cat in the middle of the night"

The only reason you would not want to know, or rather try to convince others that they "should not be interested in knowing" is if you are worried yourself about the outcome of that knowledge, or that the inquiry might go deeper than it has gone now - which is surface, 70 alts banned, some ISK removed, not a big deal, god forbid CCP really starts to dig and examine every rock and cardboard box, who knows what sort of names might start pouring out of it, maybe it would even be your main! Not that I am saying it would.

I know, it is easy to label a "troll" to anyone who disagrees with you, and it is easy to say that this is a tornado in teacup, well, just remember that all things are tornadoes in a teacup till they get to grow into a real scandals, and, I think you actually know it too well, and do not want it to go any further than it has gone thus far.

The harder unknown NPC ALT characters on this forums will try and convince us that what happened is not a big deal, and that WE DO NOT NEED TO KNOW, the more suspicious reasonable people should become, and ask WHY DON'T WE NEED TO KNOW?


Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.12.19 20:36:00 - [33]
 

I have to ask... so you find out who it is.

Then what?

Your going to gank them? Scream at them? Troll them?

Its a damn game.

seriously people.... this is a total waste of time.

All your doing is trolling for conspiratorial and political crap.

If this was a real life crime... like a murder....or a robbery... fine.

But CCP has chosen to say no...and here you are crying like a bunch of damn babies.
Seriously.. I've grown tired of seeing you all throw a fit.

There's no real benefit let alone "prize" to be had for knowing.... let alone not knowing.

So you find out.... knowing is only going to either make you stupid.... or.... well just foolish period.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.12.19 20:45:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 19/12/2008 20:45:32
Originally by: Drake Draconis
I have to ask... so you find out who it is.

Then what?

Your going to gank them? Scream at them? Troll them?

Its a damn game.

seriously people.... this is a total waste of time.

All your doing is trolling for conspiratorial and political crap.

If this was a real life crime... like a murder....or a robbery... fine.

But CCP has chosen to say no...and here you are crying like a bunch of damn babies.
Seriously.. I've grown tired of seeing you all throw a fit.

There's no real benefit let alone "prize" to be had for knowing.... let alone not knowing.

So you find out.... knowing is only going to either make you stupid.... or.... well just foolish period.


If I have ever heard alt tripe before...

If we find out out, and have an exhaustive report from CCP, which I hope we will, it will tell us that A LOT of very bad players have been removed from the game. It will tell us that number of bad alliances and corporations can be suspect, and it will also open avenue for retribution within the game from those who have been on the receiving end of the exploiters.

Knowing will make you stupid! Ahha, now that you put it that way, I do not want to be stupid, so I will NOT want to know.

No real benefit in knowing! I understand! Why bother, why would ANYONE want to care about things that might diminish one's ability n a competitive game! You right.

You right, we should all listen to you and go quietly play a PVP game with limited resources, while knowing full well that there are others who had unlimited resources and are still might be enjoying something for nothing, as opposed to the players who had to spend time and effort to get where we are now.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.12.19 20:52:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Jinx Barker
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 19/12/2008 20:45:32
Originally by: Drake Draconis
I have to ask... so you find out who it is.

Then what?

Your going to gank them? Scream at them? Troll them?

Its a damn game.

seriously people.... this is a total waste of time.

All your doing is trolling for conspiratorial and political crap.

If this was a real life crime... like a murder....or a robbery... fine.

But CCP has chosen to say no...and here you are crying like a bunch of damn babies.
Seriously.. I've grown tired of seeing you all throw a fit.

There's no real benefit let alone "prize" to be had for knowing.... let alone not knowing.

So you find out.... knowing is only going to either make you stupid.... or.... well just foolish period.


If I have ever heard alt tripe before...

If we find out out, and have an exhaustive report from CCP, which I hope we will, it will tell us that A LOT of very bad players have been removed from the game. It will tell us that number of bad alliances and corporations can be suspect, and it will also open avenue for retribution within the game from those who have been on the receiving end of the exploiters.

Knowing will make you stupid! Ahha, now that you put it that way, I do not want to be stupid, so I will NOT want to know.

No real benefit in knowing! I understand! Why bother, why would ANYONE want to care about things that might diminish one's ability n a competitive game! You right.

You right, we should all listen to you and go quietly play a PVP game with limited resources, while knowing full well that there are others who had unlimited resources and are still might be enjoying something for nothing, as opposed to the players who had to spend time and effort to get where we are now.



*snip - Mitnal*
This is my main.... not an alt.
Secondly... you take this game way to seriously if all you care is about your frakking score and the number of kills you make.

CCP says they removed exploiters from the game.... that should be more than enough.
All I see is a bunch of egotistical jackasses who want blood.

Fine then... go out and yarr your brains out... while I Sit here and pay attention to things that really matter... like reality.

Honestly Im shocked CCP tolerates you people as much as they do!

This is a flipping game people... not real life and death.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:31:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Drake Draconis
... Allright *******... listen well and clear.... (etc)


If you made sense, then I would love to have a proper conversation with you. But, unfortunately you did not. Yes it is a game, it is also a hobby. CCP does have a precedent, long running, of precipitating, whether imaginary, or real, scandals.

If someone messes with my hobby, I would like to know.
CCP opened the door with their transparency stuff with CSM - they have shown some, but not really.
CCP can, and should do more. CSM can, and should do more.
I also have great hope that both CSM and CCP will give us more.

So far, even if disagreeing with you, and your OP buddy, I have shown great restraint, and I am glad. You are right this is a game, and good for me that I do not loose temper on the forums, and have some command of my faculties that allows me to respond properly and reasonably to those who wish to argue the merits without animosity.

Unless, of course, you consider me calling you and OP ALTs is animosity - was just a thought at the back of my head when I see some failed logic combined with a controversial subject, and ALT Corpies, makes me think "ALT" does not want to reveal his main, because he knows him, and his buddies, so far, are on the loosing side of the public opinion.

Sorry about calling you and OP an ALT, I know it is subjective, since whichever character you are currently using can be called a "MAIN" and your "MAIN" then becomes an ALT.


Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:17:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Cyprus Black
There's been quite a few troll threads demanding CCP to release the names of all parties involved in the POS exploit. These threads all have lots of responses, yet thumbs up supports rarely break single digit numbers and are mostly alts.

So I guess let's create an anti-name-naming thread. I believe CCP should not name the people involved for the following reasons:

1) A CCP name list will not restore, destroy, or otherwise affect the market.
2) Nobody has anything to gain or lose by knowing who was involved.
3) A list of names does not change what happened.
4) Despite what a handful of trolls may have claimed, the CSMs are neither responsible for what happened nor have any interest in creating more drama.
5) CCP does not yet have all the facts regarding the matter.

And most importantly:
6) Such a list serves no other purpose except to fuel trolls.


Say no to troll fuel.


You're trying so hard to not get have the names revealed, I thought back in that other thread that you probably have something to hide...

I love the way that anyone who you disagree with are trolls. Rolling Eyes

I love the way that anyone who disagrees with you and your friends is involved in exploiting. Accusing people of exploiting without proof are the actions of trolls not concerned players. GTFO and +1 support.


I have only mentioned that about Cyprus Black, out of all the people who stand on the other side of the argument.
Cyprus Black however, responds with troll to all who oppose - quite a difference don't you think?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:18:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 20/12/2008 00:01:35
Originally by: Jinx Barker


Anyone who says that they "do not want to know" are not telling the truth, to put it mildly. I would compare it to someone saying " I do not want to know what heinous crime that criminal committed, because it does not matter to me, even if he is a recidivist and might murder my cat in the middle of the night"

The only reason you would not want to know, or rather try to convince others that they "should not be interested in knowing" is if you are worried yourself about the outcome of that knowledge, or that the inquiry might go deeper than it has gone now - which is surface, 70 alts banned, some ISK removed, not a big deal, god forbid CCP really starts to dig and examine every rock and cardboard box, who knows what sort of names might start pouring out of it, maybe it would even be your main! Not that I am saying it would.





Considering what you are tossing around here I think I need to clarify my position.

I would like to know the names of the offenders, but I do not beleive that CCP has any duty to disclose said information.

I also believe that a witchhunt that includes saying that the CSM needs to be disassembled since they were unable to get CCP to disclose the information you ask for, is ludacris.

That being said, I have invested much less, time, energy, and emotion then many pilots in this game. I just may see that this cheat was just one other advantage old players have had since my first day in EVE. It is a cold universe, so I have been told, some cheaters got busted, so unless you feel that you can find the trail to legit pilots better then CCP could then I think we should let this take its natural course.


Slade

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:38:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Squirrrel on 20/12/2008 01:23:15
Originally by: Cyprus Black

Originally by: Squirrrel
I love the way that anyone who you disagree with are trolls. Rolling Eyes
Well what can I say, I don't like trolls Very Happy.
And so far it's only been the trolls who are demanding a list. I haven't heard a single reasonable and rational explanation yet as to why anyone needs a witch hunting list except for the sole purpose of trolling. They've made little attempt to mask their intentions, what with all the accusations and personal attacks. All these attacks do is reinforce the purpose of this thread.

But please, if you have a genuine need for such a list with a use other than trolling, then post it here (assuming you're able to do so with a straight face).



I wonder which threads you've been reading really. There have been some good arguments on both sides in my opinion, along with some terrible ones with no real substance, or just being totally irrelevant. (both sides again.)

If you want to play this game, then we shall. Allow me to take a look at your argument in the OP first if you will:

Originally by: Cyprus Black
There's been quite a few troll threads demanding CCP to release the names of all parties involved in the POS exploit. These threads all have lots of responses, yet thumbs up supports rarely break single digit numbers and are mostly alts.

So I guess let's create an anti-name-naming thread. I believe CCP should not name the people involved for the following reasons:

1) A CCP name list will not restore, destroy, or otherwise affect the market.


No reason not to name them then if it will not harm or affect the market if some players feel it matters.

Originally by: Cyprus Black

2) Nobody has anything to gain or lose by knowing who was involved.

Again, then there is no reason not to name them, if - in your opinion - no one loses nor gains. We think it will benefit the player base to reveal, you think it won't affect either way.

There is little logic so far to your arguments...

Originally by: Cyprus Black

3) A list of names does not change what happened.

Agreed. However, again that works the same as the two above. With no negative effects, no reason not to name.

Originally by: Cyprus Black

4) Despite what a handful of trolls may have claimed, the CSMs are neither responsible for what happened nor have any interest in creating more drama.

Of course they are not responsible for what happened. Please link any post relating to this exploit which indicates anyone has said this.
Regarding the creating of drama, well again we can assume that they don't have any intention of doing so - just getting answers to the questions from the player base.

Again, plese point me to a post that states otherwise.

Originally by: Cyprus Black

5) CCP does not yet have all the facts regarding the matter.

What does this have to do with releasing character names, and who said that the names need to be revealed prior to the end of the investigation?
If they didn't think the characters were cheating they wouldn't have perma-banned them - they obviously had all the facts they needed for those 70 or so accounts.

Originally by: Cyprus Black

And most importantly:
6) Such a list serves no other purpose except to fuel trolls.

In your opinion of course. Yet, you've said nothing that provides evidence that it will have negative effects - except maybe this childish "Troll fuel" notion.

The irony is, you're actually as bad a troll as those you condemn.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:48:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Cyprus Black
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 19/12/2008 18:29:22
Originally by: Squirrrel
I love the way that anyone who you disagree with are trolls. Rolling Eyes
Well what can I say, I don't like trolls Very Happy.

And so far it's only been the trolls who are demanding a list. I haven't heard a single reasonable and rational explanation yet as to why anyone needs a witch hunting list except for the sole purpose of trolling. They've made little attempt to mask their intentions, what with all the accusations and personal attacks. All these attacks do is reinforce the purpose of this thread.

But please, if you have a genuine need for such a list with a use other than trolling, then post it here (assuming you're able to do so with a straight face).




Now, please allow me to provide you with some reasoning as to why the names should be released. With a straight face of course.

Some players seem to be very interested in ensuring that these are not "token" bans.
Aside from Ev0ke, no one has officially confirmed any notable corps or alliance names.

It's entirely possible that the banned accounts are mostly alts, and that the main characters are still very much able to play the game and are living off the proceeds untouched.
It would also go some way to serve those Corps and Alliances that have been part of the cheating speculation - in clearing their name.
Sure Alliances like BoB will forever be tainted in the eyes of some players, and involved in every rumour and indeed there will likely be cries of a cover-up if no BoB character is mentioned.
EvE isn't just about BoB though, and they seem to be thick-skinned enough to deal with the fact that some players just accept as fact these unfair and unfounded assumptions.

CCP own everything in game. All character names included. They can pretty much ban you for playing for no apparent reason. It's their game, their right.
Claiming that it's a breach of privacy to reveal the names is ridiculous - and only furthers theories that something suspicious is taking place, when really there is no need for them to hide behind this ridiculous notion when simply saying they choose not to as it serves no purpose is more credible.

For the record, just like with unsubbed training -
We KNOW it's CCP's game.
We KNOW they can make changes to it for no apparent reason.
We KNOW ultimately it's up to them if they reveal the names or not.
We KNOW they can do as they like.

It's the last part that is particularly disturbing to some of it's subscribers

Lemage
Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen
Posted - 2008.12.20 00:17:00 - [41]
 

poasting in a protect the exploiters thread.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 01:29:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Drake Draconis
... Allright *******... listen well and clear.... (etc)


If you made sense, then I would love to have a proper conversation with you.


QFT.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.12.20 01:31:00 - [43]
 

Supporting this purely for the hilarious crying generated by the tinfoil hat brigade as they rage impotently at Evil CCP and their Grand Moongate Coverup.Laughing

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 01:41:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Supporting this purely for the hilarious crying generated by the tinfoil hat brigade as they rage impotently at Evil CCP and their Grand Moongate Coverup.Laughing


Hey, please understand that although you get a laugh out of us thinking the way we do; we get a real kick out of the blind faithers too. Very Happy

Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.12.20 03:48:00 - [45]
 

The EULA doesn't give them explicit rights to name and shame in the privacy and confidentiality clause.
They could derive rights by claiming the forums a 3rd party blah blah, but I doubt they'd risk even the faintest chance at getting a lawsuit.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.20 04:37:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
The EULA doesn't give them explicit rights to name and shame in the privacy and confidentiality clause.
They could derive rights by claiming the forums a 3rd party blah blah, but I doubt they'd risk even the faintest chance at getting a lawsuit.


The EULA give them explicity rights to do as they fit with the characters or anything in the game, as it clearly says that everything in Eve is CCP's property.

PLAYER's data is not theirs to disclose. But character's names have nothing to do with it.


Rutger Centemus
Phantom Squad
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.12.20 04:58:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The EULA give them explicity rights to do as they fit with the characters or anything in the game, as it clearly says that everything in Eve is CCP's property.

PLAYER's data is not theirs to disclose. But character's names have nothing to do with it.



"... but that's what we have other players for."

I understand why people would like to know exactly who and what. Personally, I would like to know the same, if only out of curiosity. Unfortunately we only need one ****ed up kid with too much time on his hands, thinking "internetspaceships = seriuz bizniz" to cause someone personal damage IRL. I know quite a few players give 'hints' to their personal lives and information, willingly or not. Look up 'k0wkilla' and 'myspace' on eve-search for an example of that. The probability of personal RL attacks may be small, but it's nevertheless existant. I'ld be interested to see peoples' reactions if such a thing were to happen, not even thinking of possible legal complications for CCP.

In the end, I'ld say CCP's policies and actions are theirs. They can make and break them at their own leisure. They've stated that they don't want to disclose this information, or at least not at the time. Agree or disagree, it's their call.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.20 05:07:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
The EULA doesn't give them explicit rights to name and shame in the privacy and confidentiality clause.
They could derive rights by claiming the forums a 3rd party blah blah, but I doubt they'd risk even the faintest chance at getting a lawsuit.


The EULA give them explicity rights to do as they fit with the characters or anything in the game, as it clearly says that everything in Eve is CCP's property.

PLAYER's data is not theirs to disclose. But character's names have nothing to do with it.




You fail to understand the concept of a private company Wink


Slade

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.20 05:51:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 20/12/2008 05:57:19
Originally by: Rutger Centemus

"... but that's what we have other players for."



If a player decides to disclose the personal data of another player, because this other player confided it to him it has nothing to do with CCP. It can be done at any time by anyone. CCP needs not to take any action for it to happen nor any action it takes makes a difference, especially because a player that is close enough to a cheater to know his real life information, must have close ties with the said cheater and it would be against his interests to put them in evidence..

And if it is done within these forums, all CCP has to do is to take the proper punitive measures against such player (which it didn't against SirMolle I should mention when he did exactly this).

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

You fail to understand the concept of a private company Wink


Slade



You fail to understand the concept of relevant to the discussion.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.12.20 06:23:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Cyprus Black on 20/12/2008 06:34:02
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Supporting this purely for the hilarious crying generated by the tinfoil hat brigade as they rage impotently at Evil CCP and their Grand Moongate Coverup.Laughing
Glad to see the humor wasn't lost. Laughing I'm having difficulty containing my laughter as well.Very Happy Like a parent biting their tongue trying not to laugh as their child throws a temper tantrum. Daddy has to put on his serious face while little Sally screams bloody murder over a cookie. It's so ridiculous.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 11:36:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Cyprus Black
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 20/12/2008 06:34:02
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Supporting this purely for the hilarious crying generated by the tinfoil hat brigade as they rage impotently at Evil CCP and their Grand Moongate Coverup.Laughing
Glad to see the humor wasn't lost. Laughing I'm having difficulty containing my laughter as well.Very Happy Like a parent biting their tongue trying not to laugh as their child throws a temper tantrum. Daddy has to put on his serious face while little Sally screams bloody murder over a cookie. It's so ridiculous.


You're taiking it all too far though. You're acting like a parent, and when the "child" presents a rational counter-argument you decide not to even respond.

Classy.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 11:40:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Rutger Centemus

In the end, I'ld say CCP's policies and actions are theirs. They can make and break them at their own leisure. They've stated that they don't want to disclose this information, or at least not at the time. Agree or disagree, it's their call.


At the risk of repeating myself, we know all this.

That said, it shouldn't stop any of us (supporters of this thread included) voicing their opinions and wishes, and if CCP decides not to run with it so be it - they will have weighed up the potential implications either way I'm sure.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.20 12:46:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel


Originally by: Slade Trillgon

You fail to understand the concept of a private company Wink


Slade



You fail to understand the concept of relevant to the discussion.


CCP being a private company means that they have absolutely zero accountability to the player base if they so choose. They also have the right to shut down the servers with zero compensation to you for whatever reason they so choose even in the middle of your payed time for usage. If you do not understand this then you sir are the one that does not understand the situation.

If you are unable to see how being private affects a companies rights to or not to disclose information then you need to read up on the operation of private vs public companies. No laws were broken therefor zero disclosure is their right. If the player base has a problem with that then start a **** storm in the regular media or on the servers, but on these boards you are preaching either to those that agree with you or those that do not, which are both only small portions of the player base.

"A. By CCP for Termination of the Game
CCP does not guarantee that it will continue to offer access to the System or support the Game. CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game), terminate the EULA, close all Accounts and cancel all of the rights granted to you under the EULA.


Originally by: Etho Demerzel

If a player decides to disclose the personal data of another player, because this other player confided it to him it has nothing to do with CCP.


Wrong. You must not have read the EULA or understood it.

"B. Passwords and Names
You will be asked to select a password during the registration process ("Password"). You may not disclose your Password to anyone or allow anyone to use your Password to access the System or play EVE. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password. You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the password of anyone else.
"



Originally by: Etho Demerzel
It can be done at any time by anyone. CCP needs not to take any action for it to happen nor any action it takes makes a difference, especially because a player that is close enough to a cheater to know his real life information, must have close ties with the said cheater and it would be against his interests to put them in evidence.


You have made absolutely no point right here. So please do clarify what you are trying to say.

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
And if it is done within these forums, all CCP has to do is to take the proper punitive measures against such player (which it didn't against SirMolle I should mention when he did exactly this).


Assumptions with the addition of name and shame, with zero evidence. Also once again CCP is a private company that owes you nothing as it has to do with.

"B. Rights to Certain Content
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game...

Without limiting its rights in any way, and subject to the other terms of the EULA, CCP shall have the right to display and publish any information (except certain personal information in your Account) relating to any character in your Account, for example, in charts, lists and other compilations, without notice or any compensation to you whatsoever.
"

This also implies that they do not have to hand over any information if they so choose. As I said in previous posts I would like to know the information you are trying to get, but I have no disillusions about CCP owing me this information and I am not allowing it to ruin my game play.


Slade

Darwin's Market
Posted - 2008.12.20 15:35:00 - [54]
 

Come on guys, CCP is not an honest company, period. We know this, we've seen how past scandals were dealt with. The alliances you suspect of cheating, have cheated and are continuing to cheat. You know this.

You will just have to rise above them and cause them to disintegrate in-game. Look at what has become of the cheating alliances. D2, VI, MC, BOB, Hydra, etc.. They are but a twinkle of their former selves. Eve players will see to it, and it is your duty to see to it. Join the good fight against the smug cheaters, and remember to have fun along the way.


Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 16:36:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

CCP being a private company means that they have absolutely zero accountability to the player base if they so choose. They also have the right to shut down the servers with zero compensation to you for whatever reason they so choose even in the middle of your payed time for usage. If you do not understand this then you sir are the one that does not understand the situation.


<sigh> We all get this, We know. Having an opinion that CCP should release character names is not demanding that we have a right to have the CHARACTER names released.
In a manner of speaking, it's like any other private company; if enough customers are disatisfied with it's product or how it handles it's customer relations - they run the risk that those customers will not continue to provide revenue for them.

That is how the point is made, that is how ANY private company will look at these kinds of situations.

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

If you are unable to see how being private affects a companies rights to or not to disclose information then you need to read up on the operation of private vs public companies. No laws were broken therefor zero disclosure is their right.


We know we have no 'rights' in getting the information. I'm running out of ways to actually explain this. I wonder if you have an issue with comprehension.

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

If the player base has a problem with that then start a **** storm in the regular media or on the servers, but on these boards you are preaching either to those that agree with you or those that do not, which are both only small portions of the player base.

And these forums are also owned and read by CCP right? So, in theory they should be able to gauge the satisfaction of their customers and take any feedback and... to not put too fine a point on it - Do with it as they wish.
Originally by: Slade Trillgon

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

If a player decides to disclose the personal data of another player, because this other player confided it to him it has nothing to do with CCP.


Wrong. You must not have read the EULA or understood it.

"B. Passwords and Names
You will be asked to select a password during the registration process ("Password"). You may not disclose your Password to anyone or allow anyone to use your Password to access the System or play EVE. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password. You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the password of anyone else.
"


That relates to passwords. Account names themselves are passed to each other via the character transfer process are they not? CCP own ALL the in-game content, that includes the character names. Once an aco**** is banned; even more so.
Passwords are obviously a totally different concern - RL info even more so and a breach of the EULA and law.
Not only that, it details that IF you pass on your password and suffer a loss as a result, you are liable. That's all that statement you have quoted says.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.20 16:50:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

Assumptions with the addition of name and shame, with zero evidence. Also once again CCP is a private company that owes you nothing as it has to do with.

"B. Rights to Certain Content
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game...

Without limiting its rights in any way, and subject to the other terms of the EULA, CCP shall have the right to display and publish any information (except certain personal information in your Account) relating to any character in your Account, for example, in charts, lists and other compilations, without notice or any compensation to you whatsoever. "


And this is EXACTLY the part that tells you that CCP can announce the character names of the banned characters if they so choose. We understand they don't HAVE to, we just think that in these instances, maybe they should.

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

This also implies that they do not have to hand over any information if they so choose. As I said in previous posts I would like to know the information you are trying to get, but I have no disillusions about CCP owing me this information and I am not allowing it to ruin my game play.

Character names, corporations and alliances if applicable.

Basically, we want to be sure it's not just a bunch of alts in alt corps that got the bans. We are being told:

Originally by: CCP

We have also banned all those we have found directly involved and all accounts we have found to be connected to those players.


I would love to see a full list that indicates that is likely to be the case.
They are all perma-banned anyway.

Just to make one thing clear though.
We do not want passwords, account names, RL names, addresses, phone numbers, country of residence, CC information or anything regarding the subscription.

Just the names of the characters that got hit with the ban.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.12.20 22:45:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Cyprus Black on 20/12/2008 22:48:23
Originally by: Squirrrel
You're taiking it all too far though. You're acting like a parent, and when the "child" presents a rational counter-argument you decide not to even respond.

Classy.
Um yeah, I'll respond to a "rational counter-argument" when you create one. Remember, your goal is to express a genuine and legitimate need for such a list with a use other than trolling.

You haven't done that yet.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:03:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Cyprus Black
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 20/12/2008 22:48:23
Originally by: Squirrrel
You're taiking it all too far though. You're acting like a parent, and when the "child" presents a rational counter-argument you decide not to even respond.

Classy.
Um yeah, I'll respond to a "rational counter-argument" when you create one. Remember, your goal is to express a genuine and legitimate need for such a list with a use other than trolling.

You haven't done that yet.


uhuh. I'm slighlty disappointed that your thread isn't very popular...


Baron Erique
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2008.12.22 19:15:00 - [59]
 

I like history. I like the recording of history to be accurate. If an alliance had an impact on the history of the EvE universe--while taking advantage of the exploit--I want to know. I want the asterisk in the history.

A list of names won't change the actual events, but it will change the narrative of those events.

Naomi Knight
Amarr
Posted - 2008.12.23 02:22:00 - [60]
 

Any reason not to post those names , other than those involved dont want to let us know them?


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