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Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.17 23:29:00 - [31]
 

I agree that if the jump drive/ hot dropping / covert ambushing people is the only thing that black ops were created for, Then the ships are quite alright (though personally I'd nerf them even more than they are ANd give them the cov ops cloak if that were the case).
Was nice to see that someone (you) liked some of my proposals (that was my understanding anyway).

V.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.12.17 23:53:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
The black ops honestly don't need a revision.

Yes they do... it's a pvp ship that nobody uses in pvp; and that has nothing to do with lacking cargo space for fuel.

Quote:
I like that you have several proposals but the fact is, their fundamental role should remain a niche one. The only thing stopping EVERYONE from flying one right now is cost. That's about it.

no it isnt... people use marauders in pvp.

Quote:
CCP gave them jump drives as an ability to sneak around, but its ten times more useful in ganking people.

No... you have directional scanners and local that busts that up.

Quote:
In small gang warfare, the ability to appear out of nowhere on top of someone without being in the next system makes it really hard to defend against.

except a cyno needs to be dropped. tbh... black ops being really crappy hurts it much more then the advantage of hotdropping.

Really a carrier + sensor booster would easily EASILY outperform a black ops.

Quote:
If you're oppressing a group, sticking a covert (neutral or not)

The few people who trained cyno to 5 did it solely because you could jump carriers to covert cynos.

Hell if anything... you could covert cyno jumpbrige stealth bombers and recons for much better effect and leave the blackops by a deathstar.

Evlyna
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.12.18 10:45:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Evlyna on 18/12/2008 10:48:04
Originally by: Jason Edwards

The few people who trained cyno to 5 did it solely because you could jump carriers to covert cynos.


Wut? Shocked No... no no no... you can't jump carriers to covert cynos, it was never intended and probably never will be.

I trained cyno 5 for the ganking possibilities. Unfortunatly, the fuel needed to bridge the crap around is way too high to make it viable and efficient.

Danny3388
Killer Koalas
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.12.18 14:45:00 - [34]
 

I love the proposed changes you have come up with for the widow especially the first one. I myself had a widow at one point but sold it due to it being utterly useless and not worth loosing in pvp. I would gladly give up most of the dps and make this a total ecm ship with a cov ops cloak. The widow atm is just trying to be two things a dps bs and a ecm boat neither which it does to great effect.

Before people start flaming that the black ops will be overpowered with a cov ops cloak i dont see why, 1 agility is crap so your not going anywhere fast especially with the reduced speed of bs's now. If you jump into a camp you are pritty much screwed as you will be decloaked anyway before you can even get 1km.

Please seriously look at these changes CCP there are some very good suggestions.

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2008.12.18 18:58:00 - [35]
 

The Black Ops Battleships need two things and two things only:

1. A buff to their jump systems, both the portal and their jump drives. The short range makes it very difficult to jump between regions and those gates tend to be the most heavily camped. Also, if the jump portal range gets increased, the fuel consumption should be decreased by a corresponding amount (i.e. max range jump costs the same before and after a range buff).

2. Focused purpose. Three of the four BOBs have bonuses and/or slot layouts such that they're hard effectively to fit with any deliberate purpose in combat. The Redeemer is the only exception, being a reasonably strong armor-tanking laser platform (i.e. good slot layout, 3/4 bonuses oriented towards laser combat, 6 hardpoints). I would add a hardpoint to the Panther and Sin along with extra fittings if necessary in order to fill them with weapons; this would put them more on par with the Redeemer and while they would lack the Redeemer's three weapon bonuses, their movement bonuses would let them remain more effective hit-and-run ships. The Widow I'm somewhat torn on since it has the bonus to ECM, but I could see swapping one mid for a high and adding a missile hardpoint; this would make it more consistent with a Rook and less with a Falcon.

Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.19 11:49:00 - [36]
 

Lots of stuff here and well reasoned IMHO. As a character thats just passed the 2 years in EVE mark BO's are something I'm starting to consider, as currently I'm heavily spec'ed in Recons and like flying them. What puts me off them atm is that their CPU/PG/GRID + bonuses just don't seem to make them viable for their intended role (and thats without considering their utterly gimped jump range). You have presented an interesting range of options for the various races ships, and not just the standard 'make them BS sized Force Recons', 'Allow Cov Ops cloak' or 'Give me Jump Fuel Bay' argument.


Rajere
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.12.19 16:17:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Rajere on 19/12/2008 17:12:23
Blackops will never ever ever get a covert Ops cloak. They were never intended to receive one, it was not some oversight.

Quote:
The black ops honestly don't need a revision. I like that you have several proposals but the fact is, their fundamental role should remain a niche one. The only thing stopping EVERYONE from flying one right now is cost. That's about it.

CCP gave them jump drives as an ability to sneak around, but its ten times more useful in ganking people. In small gang warfare, the ability to appear out of nowhere on top of someone without being in the next system makes it really hard to defend against.

If you're oppressing a group, sticking a covert (neutral or not) in their system lets you hot drop them. They are like tanks in real life, you can't use one or two effectively, you need a group of them. And while most corporations have rich bastards in them, not many highly skilled pvp corporations are composed of all rich bastards. So you either get a corp that has the skill and values the isk, or a corp that has the isk, but hasn't the skill/balls/interest.

This poster has the right of it for the most part.
Why do you sneak around? To gank people. tada, 2 birds, one stone.

A more realistic list of blackops improvements:
All Blackops:
+40% base scan resolution to counteract fitting a cloak.
+60 CPU (cost to fit a T2 cloak)
T2 resists (racial flavor as appropriate on t2 ships)
Jump Range increased to 3ly base (6.75ly with JDC 5, 6ly with JDC 4)
500-1000m3 Fuel Bay added (whatever developers feel is balanced)
Covert Cynos changed to be usable in Cynojammed Systems

Sin:
+2000 pg, +1 turret hardpoint
5% Agility per level of blackops bonus (highly useful pre-QR, worthless now) becomes another creodron bonus (drone stuff, either another drone dmg/hp bonus or +dronebay/control range). It might be better to switch the Sin to a duvolle and giving it a 2nd turret bonus.

Panther:
+1750 pg, +1 Turret hardpoint
5% speed per level of blackops bonus (highly useful pre-QR for an entirely different reason, worthless now) removed. The Panther is thukker (like the vagabond), this doesn't work for battleships. The Panther needs to become Boundless Creation and given a 3rd projectile bonus.

Redeemer:
With the above changes that all blackops need, the redeemer is fine.

Widow:
The widow is the most difficult to balance. The ECM bonus is absolutely useless on the ship, this one bonus has everyone thinking they're battleship sized recons which the developers just happened to forget can't fit covert ops cloaks. This has placed the players perception of the ships/role into this catch 22 scenario where blackops will always suck, as recons will always be better than blackops @ being recons.

Unfortunately it has to take a bonus from its parent hull (Scorpion) & well the scorpion only has two bonuses to choose from, ECM range and ECM strength so atleast it has the better of the two. If you could switch the ECM bonus out for something else anything else would be better, a 5% to torp/cruise damage, even if it was only to kinetic missiles.

If you were going to redesign the t2 battleships now, please allow variation between marauder and blackops tech 1 parent hulls, some tier 1 battleships are good at missioning, some are good at pvp, but it isn't universal, they vary between the tier 1 and tier 2 ships which is better at what. You can't make blackops the tier 1 battleship hulls and marauders the tier 2 battleship hulls and end up with a balanced tech 2 battleship lineup.

Ideally you'd have:
Gallente: Blackops = T2 Megathron, Marauder = T2 Dominix
Amarr: Blackops = T2 Armageddon, Marauder = T2 Apocalypse <----Grats this one is correct
Minmatar: Blackops = T2 Tempest, Marauder = T2 Typhoon (you know, with torps this time)
Caldari: Blackops = T2 Raven, Marauder = a different T2 Raven (there will never be a need for a 500-800mil isk Scorpion)

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.20 01:20:00 - [38]
 

Quote:
Caldari: Blackops = T2 Raven, Marauder = a different T2 Raven (there will never be a need for a 500-800mil isk Scorpion)


Disagree. People crave for t2 Bs sized scorpion. Unfortunatelly there aren't 15k pure jamming pilots out there to make a stand for it and whine on the forums like people did for blasters.

V.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.12.20 02:43:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Evlyna
Edited by: Evlyna on 18/12/2008 10:48:04
Originally by: Jason Edwards

The few people who trained cyno to 5 did it solely because you could jump carriers to covert cynos.


Wut? Shocked No... no no no... you can't jump carriers to covert cynos, it was never intended and probably never will be.


It was an exploit... which allowed you to...

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.12.20 21:49:00 - [40]
 

I agree... Black Ops needs a pinch of loving.

PeachesAndCream
Posted - 2008.12.21 00:10:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
The black ops honestly don't need a revision.

Yes they do... it's a pvp ship that nobody uses in pvp; and that has nothing to do with lacking cargo space for fuel.


Nobody uses it for pvp? Really? Nobody? First, your exaggerations are based on wishful thinking and not any actual information or insight. My guess is you don't even have the insight to make a half-accurate guess. Second, cynos of any type don't work in high sec and that's where most people are. Third, 0.0 warfare is not going to be affected by Black Ops no matter what you do with them. Ergo, they are used in PVP but only where they matter, by the people who stand to gain from using them.

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
I like that you have several proposals but the fact is, their fundamental role should remain a niche one. The only thing stopping EVERYONE from flying one right now is cost. That's about it.

no it isnt... people use marauders in pvp.


Yeah, and not EVERYONE uses Marauders in pvp for the same reason. Logical fallacy.

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
CCP gave them jump drives as an ability to sneak around, but its ten times more useful in ganking people.

No... you have directional scanners and local that busts that up.


Uhm, it's precisely because of local that jumpdrive hotdrops are way more effective than standard gate pvp. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
In small gang warfare, the ability to appear out of nowhere on top of someone without being in the next system makes it really hard to defend against.

except a cyno needs to be dropped. tbh... black ops being really crappy hurts it much more then the advantage of hotdropping.

Really a carrier + sensor booster would easily EASILY outperform a black ops.


Well, except it costs two or three times more. It has zero mobility once it cynos in. Everyone can warp to cyno. Locks a lot slower, SB or not.

And I wouldn't quantify the combat performance of Black Ops as "really crappy" when its roughly equal or greater than any non-BS supcapital ship out there.

Originally by: Jason Edwards
Quote:
If you're oppressing a group, sticking a covert (neutral or not)

The few people who trained cyno to 5 did it solely because you could jump carriers to covert cynos.

Hell if anything... you could covert cyno jumpbrige stealth bombers and recons for much better effect and leave the blackops by a deathstar.


Most people who trained for Covert Cynos probably weren't doing it with the intention of exploiting, and I doubt its "few people". Your made up facts only serve to prove my points.

And by the way, doing the tactic you described still requires having a Black Ops. A tactic that is not made possible without them, as they're the only ship with Covert Jump Bridge. And why would you not jump to the Covert Cyno as the last one in? Extra damage, and you help your gang get back out in case the gates become camped. For that matter, why do you need a deathstar?

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.21 18:31:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 21/12/2008 18:31:52
Umm and the winner of the troll trophy is....


Seriously guys, I'm surprised it took this long for the first one to walk in, and i'm positively astonished to see that people have taken up initiative, posted ideas of their own or challenged mine without the unnecessary amount of trolling that walks these halls.

Keep em coming :)

V.

PeachesAndCream
Posted - 2008.12.21 19:35:00 - [43]
 

Rolling Eyes

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2008.12.22 07:27:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 22/12/2008 07:30:35
Black Ops are fine as they are except...

-price is too much. Real building price is less than 300mil though, some people are just getting rich atm.
-fuel space/amount/consumption. I.E. widow will have HUGE troubles at dragging along some fuel. As it is jump drive is very useless on blackops.
-Need for cyno makes them non-flexible. You need to drive ALT for making cyno for you just so you could move. It doesn't really fit in situtations you're flying blackops... This is really a problem with a jump drive. If jump drive would work without cyno it would be pretty awesome, maybe only jump portals would need cynos.

I also want to point out that obviously blackops were never meant to be big brothers of cloaking force recons like rapiers or falcons. They're meant to do damage instead with ability to use some other handy bs class modules.





wolfslo
Posted - 2008.12.22 15:04:00 - [45]
 

This thread seems interesting
:friendly bump:

Destructor1792
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.12.22 16:07:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Destructor1792 on 22/12/2008 16:12:38
Well the short description of the Black-ops is:

"Black Ops battleships are designed for infiltration and espionage behind enemy lines"

With this in mind, I propose the following:

1. Increase the jump range 3 fold / Remove the the need of fuel for jumping & increase the cap usage of the jump to 90% with a no repeat function of 15 minutes.

2. Allow only a max of 5 ships to jump through each bridge.

3. Create a new High Slot mod which can offline POS guns / Mods outside of the shield. 1 hr reactivation delay. 10 second cycle / 10km max range.

4. Create a Quad mod (4 parts), each part fitted to race specific ship. When linked together, creates a 10km zone where all highslot modules fitted to ships are offlined. Range eminates from 1st ship to activate module. 1hr reactivation delay.

5. Allow Blackops to warp whilst cloaked with an improved cloak but at only 1/6th of the current 3au speed ( that's 0.5au ). Standard warp speed whilst uncloaked.

6. Allow them to jump to a system without the need for a cyno but make the spawn in point random but to a celestial object (i.e. moon / gate / planet / belt) - that means you can jump to a hostile system but no guarantee where you're likely to appear.. could be on top of their station or on top of a hostile pos! 30 second delay after jumping until you're able to move / cloak Twisted Evil


That's just a few ideas. They're supposed to be used to mess up your victims & if they want espionage, then what a better way of using them Twisted Evil

With that in mind, they shouldn't really have that much firepower for straight out duke'ems.

Lets have them for what they were intended.. to sneak into hostile space & cause carnage to said victims infrastructure without being seen.

that's my 2 cents worth.. Now i need coffee Laughing

**edited for usual spelling , etc **

Julio Torres
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.12.22 18:00:00 - [47]
 

I disagree that Black Ops should be a Battleship sized Recon ship.
But giving them all some E-war is very appealing.

Amarr - Tracking Disrupting
Caldari - ECM (as current)
Gallente - Sensor Damps
Minmatar - Webbing

In addition to the obvious complaints about Fuel Bay, short Jump Range. I would love for higher base resists.

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.22 23:41:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Destructor1792


4. Create a Quad mod (4 parts), each part fitted to race specific ship. When linked together, creates a 10km zone where all highslot modules fitted to ships are offlined. Range eminates from 1st ship to activate module. 1hr reactivation delay.



I think the created lag would be an EVE server and experience killer, but it'd be better of a dev answered this possibility rather than me. I love your idea, gives additional meaning to sniping gangs and structured combat.

Quote:


5. Allow Blackops to warp whilst cloaked with an improved cloak but at only 1/6th of the current 3au speed ( that's 0.5au ). Standard warp speed whilst uncloaked.


What's the difference in using covert ops then?
Quote:

6. Allow them to jump to a system without the need for a cyno but make the spawn in point random but to a celestial object (i.e. moon / gate / planet / belt) - that means you can jump to a hostile system but no guarantee where you're likely to appear.. could be on top of their station or on top of a hostile pos! 30 second delay after jumping until you're able to move / cloak Twisted Evil



Ouch. If this were to happen I'd want all your other ideas mixed into it, including some of mine. Like tanking ideas, enhancing ECm idea, giving them the 4part weapon u suggested. This class of ships could become a complete new tactic of eve game play rather than just another ship.

Nice,
V.

PS: wolf thanks :)

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2008.12.23 06:42:00 - [49]
 

Quote:
(though personally I'd nerf them even more than they are ANd give them the cov ops cloak if that were the case).


Would be useless then. All they could do then was warp while cloaked and put up a jumpbridge... Not much fun.

Quote:
Yes they do... it's a pvp ship that nobody uses in pvp; and that has nothing to do with lacking cargo space for fuel.


Just because you dont use, doesnt mean nobody use it. I use, I have actually used it alot. And I find it refreshing and fun.

Quote:
No... you have directional scanners and local that busts that up.


Not quite. If that would ruin every kill, by the same logic you would never get a kill by roaming either...

Quote:
except a cyno needs to be dropped. tbh... black ops being really crappy hurts it much more then the advantage of hotdropping.

Really a carrier + sensor booster would easily EASILY outperform a black ops.


Carrier is slow as ****, align like crap, and move like a poo while cloaked. Also you would need a expendable cyno alt every time you wants to put a cyno, cause he will most likely die, stuck for 600 sec....

And everybody can see the cynobeacon and warp to it. Add the change CCP is comming with, covert cyno in cynojammed systems in case you didnt know, and fuel bay I think the ships will be quite ok.

Quote:
I would gladly give up most of the dps and make this a total ecm ship with a cov ops cloak.


Get a falcon...

Quote:
The ECM bonus is absolutely useless on the ship, this one bonus has everyone thinking they're battleship sized recons which the developers just happened to forget can't fit covert ops cloaks


What? The bonus is great!! It makes it possible to go in, if **** hits the fan, maybe jam the first one just enough to get out.

Quote:
If you could switch the ECM bonus out for something else anything else would be better, a 5% to torp/cruise damage, even if it was only to kinetic missiles.


Dont make me spank you Shocked Dont take my ecm bonus away.

Quote:
-price is too much. Real building price is less than 300mil though, some people are just getting rich atm.


Lol, I have had a BPC for a looong time in my hangar, but never bothered, cause with the cost of materials (jita prices) you saved like maybe 20-50 million.


Captator
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2008.12.23 19:09:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Captator on 23/12/2008 19:09:27
Originally by: Rajere
A more realistic list of blackops improvements:
All Blackops:
+40% base scan resolution to counteract fitting a cloak.
+60 CPU (cost to fit a T2 cloak)
T2 resists (racial flavor as appropriate on t2 ships)
Jump Range increased to 3ly base (6.75ly with JDC 5, 6ly with JDC 4)
500-1000m3 Fuel Bay added (whatever developers feel is balanced)
Covert Cynos changed to be usable in Cynojammed Systems


These would be nice, but I would add to this a marauder style 100% damage bonus per level, and change their slot and fitting layouts (disregarding the required grid and cpu changes) to something like this:

Sin: 6/6/6 (h/m/l), 2 turret slots (4 effective) 375m3 drone bay, 125tb bandwidth.

BS bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints, 5% drone control and optimal range
BOBS bonuses: 7.5% sensor dampener effectiveness, 125% cloaked velocity

This sets it up nicely for dealing reasonable damage at midrange with sentries and rails, while being able to shut down some of the potential incoming fire using its damps. You can choose to shield or armour tank it, though given that you will need the midslots for drone tracking comps, damps, propulsion, sensor boosters etc, armour tanking is probably more sensible.


Panther: 6/5/7, 3 turret slots (6 effective), 175m3 dronebay, 125tb bandwidth.

BS bonuses: 5% ROF, 7.5% large projectile optimal
BOBS bonuses: 5% damage, 125% cloaked velocity

This gives you greater damage than a tempest, and the optimal bonus gives you the choice of using arties at midrange for good damage. The 2nd damage bonus being on the blackops skill rewards the dedicated pilot, and the optimal being on the BS skill leans this ship more towards artillery than AC.


Redeemer: 7/3/8, 3 turret slots (6 effective), 125m3 dronebay, 125tb bandwidth

BS bonuses: 10% large energy capacitor use, 10% energy neutraliser and vampire optimal
BOBS bonuses: 5% ROF , 125% cloaked velocity

These bonuses optimise this ship for operating around the 30-40km mark, where it deals high damage, and cap warfare almost equalling the curse (though local cap cost and cycle times remain worse), but the lack of midslots mean difficult choices will need to be made when fitting the ship, and much like the absolution and geddon, prevent it from being a solopwnmobile.


Widow: 5/8/5, 3 launchers (6 effective), 75m3 drone bay, 75tb bandwidth.

BS bonuses: 5% torp/cruise ROF, 10% torp/cruise velocity
BOBS: 20% ECM strength, 125% cloaked velocity

The extra low allows you to fit another damage mod or signal distortion amp, depending on what direction you are leaning the ship towards more, and the 8 mids, combined with the t2 resists should allow you to fit some kind of tank along with some ecm and a sensor booster, without spending huge amounts of isk.

edit: changed colours to make it easier to read.

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.24 00:23:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 24/12/2008 00:23:50
Originally by: TZeer


Would be useless then. All they could do then was warp while cloaked and put up a jumpbridge... Not much fun.


Exactly what I was trying to say?
Quote:

Just because you dont use, doesnt mean nobody use it. I use, I have actually used it alot. And I find it refreshing and fun.


You're a minority. I use it as well. So we're a minority. And yes they are refreshing. And yes they are fun the first time u use it.

Quote:

Get a falcon...


Why? every1 has 1 these days. I was looking for something new and refreshing.
Quote:

What? The bonus is great!! It makes it possible to go in, if **** hits the fan, maybe jam the first one just enough to get out.


Get a falcon. Has same bonuses, does same thing, but without the damage bonus. Even better ones. Costs less. Can't jump though.
Quote:

Dont make me spank you Shocked Dont take my ecm bonus away.


Poor you.
My ideas gave it better ECM bonuses. Had you bothered to read.


V.

rgreat
Gallente
OEG
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.12.24 00:37:00 - [52]
 

Black Ops must get Cov Ops Cloaking Device.

uzumoreru
Posted - 2008.12.24 01:22:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus

Quote:

Dont make me spank you Shocked Dont take my ecm bonus away.


Poor you.
My ideas gave it better ECM bonuses. Had you bothered to read.


V.



He wasn't talking to you...

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.24 11:28:00 - [54]
 

Was just thinking about an idea here -

what do you guys think of idea to give BOs some bonuses directly to remote repping? Give it 2-3 bonuses to EWar and 1 or 2 to remote reppers (large)?

Would anyone be interested in flying such ships?

V.

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.24 11:31:00 - [55]
 

Captator, what did u mean by (effective) turrets? ship bonuses included?

V.

Omu Negru
Caldari
Bang Bang You're Dead
Posted - 2008.12.24 13:53:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Omu Negru on 24/12/2008 13:55:39
omg!!!! Shocked

I DONT have time to read all of these until new year!!! Laughing or the patience? hm.. I dont know.
But hell!! this is the longest thread I saw !!

Can u make aye.. summary??? a short brief??

later edit: nerf whatever u want to nerf just give me a cov ops cloaker role.

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2008.12.24 14:24:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: TZeer on 24/12/2008 14:47:59
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Captator, what did u mean by (effective) turrets? ship bonuses included?

V.


Same mechanic as the marauders. 3 guns, but 100 damage boost on each, effective 6 guns.

Quote:
what do you guys think of idea to give BOs some bonuses directly to remote repping? Give it 2-3 bonuses to EWar and 1 or 2 to remote reppers (large)?

Would anyone be interested in flying such ships?


Pretty bad bonus actually. They have crap HP from before, and if you are taking enough damage to start remoterepping, it also means you are most likely also scrambled or bubbled.

And putting a 600 mil ship in the front and start remoterepping is not a smart idea tbh.

Black Ops are not built to fight blobs, they are there so you can bypass the camps and blobs.

TBH, when CCP get it's finger out from a certain place and give us the changes they have promised, it's just a matter of time before we start seeing the first whine threads about "overpowered" black ops, that they cant catch or camp. And their ability to travel unseen through hostile space...


But...., some of changes looked nice!! But it will never happen...

25% jam strength per lvl? Thats even higher then the Falcon, and I think you have seen whines...

But it would be an absolutely awesome jamming ship. But as the falcon, it would get booring in the longrun. And you wouldnt be able to do much damage...

The DPS option looked interesting, but it would mean outdamaging raven and golem with cruises... Plus covert cloak... No way. But if it did come, I already have a setup Laughing

But I like how the widow is now, sure I would love if it got a covert cloak, but I also see that it would be issues with it.

I would wait and see how the ships will perform after CCP gives them the buff before I ask for anything more.

Ahz
Posted - 2008.12.24 23:41:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Donít give it firepower, give it tank / evading power Ė the ability to survive extreme combat conditions after bringin up cyno/JB/jump.
This.

- Improve the base resists to support a mega tank
- Improve the jump portal range dramatically and reduce the fuel requirements
- Improve the cyno jump range

Allow these ships to bring in larger fleets over greater distances and to absorb enough damage to get the job done. This would be enough to make them a very important addition to any attack fleet while reducing the temptation to turn them into solo pwn-mobiles.

Kakuremichi
Posted - 2008.12.25 02:32:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Ahz
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Donít give it firepower, give it tank / evading power Ė the ability to survive extreme combat conditions after bringin up cyno/JB/jump.
This.

- Improve the base resists to support a mega tank
- Improve the jump portal range dramatically and reduce the fuel requirements
- Improve the cyno jump range

Allow these ships to bring in larger fleets over greater distances and to absorb enough damage to get the job done. This would be enough to make them a very important addition to any attack fleet while reducing the temptation to turn them into solo pwn-mobiles.


Newsflash, they aren't fleet ships, and making them into another large fleet enabler is pointless, boring, and useless to the smaller gang, that which they are supposed to empower. If you want a fleet jump bridging device, get a titan.

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2008.12.25 04:07:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Ahz
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Donít give it firepower, give it tank / evading power Ė the ability to survive extreme combat conditions after bringin up cyno/JB/jump.
This.

- Improve the base resists to support a mega tank
- Improve the jump portal range dramatically and reduce the fuel requirements
- Improve the cyno jump range

Allow these ships to bring in larger fleets over greater distances and to absorb enough damage to get the job done. This would be enough to make them a very important addition to any attack fleet while reducing the temptation to turn them into solo pwn-mobiles.



Please no!! Have enough blob encouraging game mechanics without introducing another one....


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