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Wolf DeRainger
Posted - 2004.07.17 11:37:00 - [1]

Edited by: Wolf DeRainger on 17/07/2004 13:21:38
Edited by: Wolf DeRainger on 17/07/2004 11:39:09
Hi Guys.
As a player who has taken part in a number of MMORPG's I'm starting to feel that they are all suffering from a real bad element of sameness. Oh the setting can be different, but be it set in deep space as Eve, or sword and sourcery as in Ultima all they ever seem to boil down to is nothing more then level chasing. Combat almost always boils down to the winner being the player with the highest level, or with the most bonuses for fancy equipment. Even games like Planetside, which plays down the leveling structure tend to boil down to the side with the most players on it' side winning.
When was the last time you got involved with an game, and say was in a fight which at the end you thought.
"I should have got my ass creamed there, but I managed to win"
The one thing all these games miss out on is individuel skill, there's no real tactical ellement to them, and if there is, it's usually nothing more then lip service.
If these game sare to continue I feel that developers have to start looking at something of a fresh approach to give players that sense of satisfaction when they accomplish something and moving away from the routine of level climbing

Masters of Noise
Posted - 2004.07.17 14:37:00 - [2]

Well, i´ve been a couple of mmorpg´s too, but i don´t get your point...

It´s only normal that the one that plays the longest will have better skills and equipment... You have to build up your skills to become better, it isn´t any different than irl... You have to work hard to become strong and be someone.... Though your personal skills are just as important through experience you´ll be able to know what to do in situations...

As to your tactical point: the tactics come into play when you´re in fleets... but also it has to do with tactical decissions you make when in a fight solo...

But i kinda see you´re point on the level climbing... but what else is there to do? just give people random levels without regard of their time ingame? that won´t work....

Luc Boye
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.18 02:04:00 - [3]

Sure for 1v1 chaos slug fests fitting and skills matter a lot, but with some wits and bold flying you may score kills when not that high leveled. You can vary range, ew, cap draining, etc.

Frank Horrigan
Vault 35
Posted - 2004.07.18 03:16:00 - [4]

o well time to go back to unreal tournament 2004... lol but anyway..

if fallout 2 was a mmorpg im sure it would thrive. with all the driffrent skills, unique skills, weapons, limited traning ammount ( cant train everything to 100%)

for exaple to get a key to open a safe to kill the ranch dude or something and make it look like a murder, 1. use steal skill and take the pills from him, 2. steal it out of the safe with lockpick skill, 3. use your extremely high speach skill to talk him into it. however each time you try to do something inless it is 100% there is a chance you will fail. that added a lot to the game because for example if you coudent save the game and you failed thats it you cant do it that way anymore.

but anyway. enough about the best game ever. back to eve. eve is bad because everything is basicaly the same. no unique characters realy... no unique skills to choose from.

ok im done now..

Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2004.07.18 10:33:00 - [5]

Im having trouble fitting this siege launcher setup to my wood elf...

Posted - 2004.07.18 11:40:00 - [6]

Edited by: IZON on 18/07/2004 11:45:00
Originally by: Wolf DeRainger

The one thing all these games miss out on is individuel skill,

True, CCP think they've got this covered with their skill point training system. But I beg to differ...

...'Cos you haven't played JumpGate(?). It's eve minus the eye candy. The prosaic levelling system is there, however being a veteran carries little kudos if you don't know how to really pilot your ship in a confrontation. It uses the best on-line Newtonian flight engine I've experienced. Individual flying skills are so important that they've incorporated a flight/fight training simulator.

I know of one developer in alpha-stage that's attempting to combine what CCP has achieved here (in terms of eye candy) with with JumpGate's Newtonian physics engine. As much as I enjoy eve, 'point and click' space combat is not the future (or the past, for those that have played the original Elite).

hired goon
Posted - 2004.07.18 16:28:00 - [7]

Of course it's the future. If eve was a twitch game it'd be crap.

I've spent many an hour at the bus stop considering the mechanics of MMOGs - how they can balance the reward vs playing time to justify playing the game. To tell you the truth I believe Eve has come the closest yet, of all the games I've played. Because of the skill training while offline system, and also because of the specialist ship configs. For example; you can never configure a ship to be good at everything, there can ALWAYS be someone who is 'super effective' against you.

Although Eve manages the best I've seen yet, it of course could be better. I believe that training to a certain level in some skills should cut off being able to train in other skills altogether. This will encourage specialization more, which is what CCP want anyway.

I think the key is specialization. Rather than having the oldest players be uber and the newest ones be crap, the oldest ones should be uber at a single thing. As long as a decent rock-paper-scissors environment exists, this means that an uber player could be defeated by a newbie, if the newbie was trained to counter the what the uber guy was uber at. Eve is a bit like this.

I think the other key is fun. For example, you don't see any levelling going on in games like Battlefield or Tribes - but people still play these. If there was some kind of organised online war it would give the players something to log on and work towards. Planetside may be like this, but I've never played it.

Posted - 2004.07.18 23:57:00 - [8]

I was merely addressing Wolf’s observation on the lack of individuality, no matter how fast you draw your hand to produce rock, paper or scissors it’s still predetermined by the SP system in eve. A player like Tank CEO might be a better rock thrower than most (for now), but that’s not because he can click his mouse faster. There’s nothing stopping ‘any’ player from attaining the ‘same’ skill level as Tank, and that’s my point, with reference to JG. Individuality is not reliant on SP-individuality but on RL-individuality, where the permutations go beyond the SP system. There’s a difference.

Masters of Noise
Posted - 2004.07.20 16:53:00 - [9]

Originally by: Frank Horrigan

but anyway. enough about the best game ever. back to eve. eve is bad because everything is basicaly the same. no unique characters realy... no unique skills to choose from.

ok im done now..

Then why do you play? I´d rather have enthousiastic peepz playing than peepz that are playing for no apparant reason what soever....


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