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Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.12.15 08:43:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
This is the guy that comes into "your" system, cloaks up, and doesn't move 23/7 all week long.


My main issue with many of these nerf cloak requests is the opinion that the systems "belong" fully to the sovereign alliance, none of the systems in eve are owned by the community and for good reason, everybody pays there subs and therfore has a right to travel freely but of course not safely around the EVE universe, if you have a cloaker in your system just take extra care. Very Happy


---------------------------


Napro
Caldari
Simplistic Syndicate
Cha0s Theory
Posted - 2008.12.15 08:49:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Napro on 15/12/2008 08:48:57
How about a cloak disruptor in sov 2 and up?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.12.15 09:02:00 - [33]
 

How to solve the cloaker problem:

Kill him.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2008.12.15 09:17:00 - [34]
 


DjLowballer
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Posted - 2008.12.15 09:26:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Napro

So not only do you think an AFK cloaker should be able to be afk 23/7..... but you want to force people to have Alts or Corp Mates guarding (as in NOT AFK) for the entire time too? You basically waste a perfectly good toon guarding just cause some moron didnt logout when he left to work....



Expecting you to have another player with you in an MMO is a waste? The cloaker's ship is also wasted so his 1 ship wasted, your friend comes 1 ship wasted, balance.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.12.15 09:41:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
We all know him. This is the guy that comes into your system, cloaks up, and doesn't move 23/7 all week long. His sole purpose is to sit in your system to disrupt activity there. He is online 23/7, which means he keeps his character online when he is asleep, at work, and boincing his old lady.

While sitting in system cloaked to disrupt normal activities is a valid play style, I believe it should be a valid playstyle for those that are active. Meaning there must be a way to keep people from being afk for hours at a time cloaked up in your system.

A friend, and fellow corp mate( hereby know as shelak ), came up with a simple idea that assures that this tactic is still viable and also assures that someone cannot afk cloak in your system. His idea is that once every twenty minutes the cloak goes offline for a full cycle due to overheating issues, issues with the gerbals needing a 1 cycle break, or whatever in game satisfiable reason that sounds plausable for an internet spaceship game.

After the full cycle of being offline, you can then reactivate the cloaking module and stay cloaked for another 20 minutes. This will keep people active on the account and still allow them to disrupt your system in this way. It will also keep people from just going afk while doing something else for hours at a time and also gives you a chance to kill them if they do. I like to fly cloaking ships from time to time and dont forsee any problems with a game mechanic like this being introduced for the cloaking community.

I think this is a good idea and hopefully it is one that will be considered as fair by the people on both sides of this issue.


CLOAKS DON'T HAVE CYCLE TIME !!!

Please learn the details of the modules/mechanic in question before you make stupid suggestions ...

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.12.15 10:00:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: DjLowballer
Originally by: Napro
So not only do you think an AFK cloaker should be able to be afk 23/7..... but you want to force people to have Alts or Corp Mates guarding (as in NOT AFK) for the entire time too? You basically waste a perfectly good toon guarding just cause some moron didnt logout when he left to work....
Expecting you to have another player with you in an MMO is a waste? The cloaker's ship is also wasted so his 1 ship wasted, your friend comes 1 ship wasted, balance.
Also, what kind of cloaked ship are we talking about here? A CovOp? Recon? Sneeze at them and they die. A BlackOps? Onoz! A fragile BS with pathetic firepower!

Or are we talking about something not designed for cloaking, i.e. something that gets hit with the full brunt of the decloaking timer and the sig res penalty? You know, one of those ships that you can get half-way through armour before they even have you locked?

…I'm not entirely convinced you even need a second guy to protect you.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.12.15 10:11:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: DjLowballer
Originally by: Napro
So not only do you think an AFK cloaker should be able to be afk 23/7..... but you want to force people to have Alts or Corp Mates guarding (as in NOT AFK) for the entire time too? You basically waste a perfectly good toon guarding just cause some moron didnt logout when he left to work....
Expecting you to have another player with you in an MMO is a waste? The cloaker's ship is also wasted so his 1 ship wasted, your friend comes 1 ship wasted, balance.
Also, what kind of cloaked ship are we talking about here? A CovOp? Recon? Sneeze at them and they die. A BlackOps? Onoz! A fragile BS with pathetic firepower!

Or are we talking about something not designed for cloaking, i.e. something that gets hit with the full brunt of the decloaking timer and the sig res penalty? You know, one of those ships that you can get half-way through armour before they even have you locked?

I'm not entirely convinced you even need a second guy to protect you.


were talking about clocked carriers of course.

Squably
Minmatar
Invenio Inceptum
Posted - 2008.12.15 10:12:00 - [39]
 

Or stop being a complete noob,
an AFK cloaked ship will not hurt you.

Cpt Lollercakes
Lucky Hydra Corp
Posted - 2008.12.15 10:58:00 - [40]
 

The OP's original suggestion seems to ignore the 20 sec probe time for a cvops meaning that the cloak drops and you are long dead before it would finish the cooldown. That said he has a point, its not really desirable to allow players to impact/disrupt economic operations of a rival corp / alliance (this is nearly always done in a prime ratting or mining system) whilst AFK. In general CCP don't like you be able to do stuff in space while AFK.

Suggestion: There is already a miscroscopic possibility of probing out a cloaked ship built into existing mechanics. The chance should increase with time, reseting eveytime the ship warps. Eventually you would be able to 0m hit on the bugger with probes or POS scanner array. No nerfing typical use of cloaking, cvops & recons, just the AFKers.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.12.15 11:47:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Cpt Lollercakes
That said he has a point, its not really desirable to allow players to impact/disrupt economic operations of a rival corp / alliance (this is nearly always done in a prime ratting or mining system) whilst AFK.
The problem with this point is that the cloaker isn't disrupting anything — it's the ratters and miners who get their knickers in a twist over nothing and thus disrupt themselves. If they can be disturbed by so little, they deserve to have their day ruined and the cloaker should get a whole heap of brownie points for doing a good job.

sir altsalot
Posted - 2008.12.15 11:48:00 - [42]
 

Really get over it, plan around it, dont be stupid if u have a neut in your system.....


But sweet baby jesus, dont moan about it, whoever it is is entitled to be in your systems...you do tempt me to do launch a cloaky offensive against you.

10 cloakies in each of the surrounding systems picking off ratters and miners and haulers and of course AFK'ing when anything to heavy comes pastVery Happy

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2008.12.15 11:59:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 15/12/2008 12:00:16
Oh yeah, nothing like being in a cov-op, in an 2 hour fleet-op and the cloak "overheats" just as you need to stay cloaked Laughing

You always have to think of extreme situations and how it will effect player comfort and enjoyment.

How would you feel if at random intervals, all other modules "overheated" too?

Like for example; ice mining. Oh joy of 3 minutes waits Laughing

Also, from a "tactical" point of view; this guy would probably be safe-spotted. And since you don't know when his cloak will "overheat", it effectively changes nothing.

SirMoric
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.12.15 12:01:00 - [44]
 

I like sitting cloaked in my CNR. It's my playstyle, catch my if you can.

rgds

Dantes Revenge
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.15 12:59:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Napro
Edited by: Napro on 15/12/2008 08:48:57
How about a cloak disruptor in sov 2 and up?

A better idea would be to get rid of Sov because it overpowers alliances already without adding more power to it.

Quite simply the OP's idea is bad. Warp to a gate that is heavily camped and wait cloaked just off the gate for a break in their defence to get through. Oh Shi... Clone activated.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.12.15 13:02:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 15/12/2008 13:03:17
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 15/12/2008 12:00:16
Oh yeah, nothing like being in a cov-op, in an 2 hour fleet-op and the cloak "overheats" just as you need to stay cloaked Laughing

You always have to think of extreme situations and how it will effect player comfort and enjoyment.

How would you feel if at random intervals, all other modules "overheated" too?

Like for example; ice mining. Oh joy of 3 minutes waits Laughing

Also, from a "tactical" point of view; this guy would probably be safe-spotted. And since you don't know when his cloak will "overheat", it effectively changes nothing.

hey what if you could stay cloaked forever as long as you had nanite paste? Back to the old fuel thing, but with the current over heating mechanics.

Also this wouldn't even touch Cov-Op cloaks.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.15 13:04:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
This is the guy that comes into your system, cloaks up, and doesn't move 23/7 all week long. His sole purpose is to sit in your system to disrupt activity there.

How does he disrupt activity if he isn't there?

Get out.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.12.15 13:06:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Olleybear
This is the guy that comes into your system, cloaks up, and doesn't move 23/7 all week long. His sole purpose is to sit in your system to disrupt activity there.

How does he disrupt activity if he isn't there?

Get out.


the best part is everyone defending it doesn't AFK cloak because those guys are AFK Smile

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.15 13:11:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Olleybear
This is the guy that comes into your system, cloaks up, and doesn't move 23/7 all week long. His sole purpose is to sit in your system to disrupt activity there.

How does he disrupt activity if he isn't there?

Get out.


the best part is everyone defending it doesn't AFK cloak because those guys are AFK Smile

Seriously, cloaking whines are damn annoying. If he's AFK in your system, he isn't doing ****. If he decides to do something, it's their own problem for not defending themselves or taking the steps necessary to act if he does attack.

Centra Spike
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.12.15 13:14:00 - [50]
 

Spies will be able to recharge their cloaking ability by picking up ammo off of the ground.

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Enemy-Fleet
Posted - 2008.12.15 14:08:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
We all know him. This is the guy that comes into your system, cloaks up, and doesn't move 23/7 all week long. His sole purpose is to sit in your system to disrupt activity there. He is online 23/7, which means he keeps his character online when he is asleep, at work, and boincing his old lady.

While sitting in system cloaked to disrupt normal activities is a valid play style, I believe it should be a valid playstyle for those that are active. Meaning there must be a way to keep people from being afk for hours at a time cloaked up in your system.

A friend, and fellow corp mate( hereby know as shelak ), came up with a simple idea that assures that this tactic is still viable and also assures that someone cannot afk cloak in your system. His idea is that once every twenty minutes the cloak goes offline for a full cycle due to overheating issues, issues with the gerbals needing a 1 cycle break, or whatever in game satisfiable reason that sounds plausable for an internet spaceship game.

After the full cycle of being offline, you can then reactivate the cloaking module and stay cloaked for another 20 minutes. This will keep people active on the account and still allow them to disrupt your system in this way. It will also keep people from just going afk while doing something else for hours at a time and also gives you a chance to kill them if they do. I like to fly cloaking ships from time to time and dont forsee any problems with a game mechanic like this being introduced for the cloaking community.

I think this is a good idea and hopefully it is one that will be considered as fair by the people on both sides of this issue.


Ive argued this many times in previous posts, Ive always insisted that eve online can detect how long a player is inactive for and if its more than 2 hours then they should be disconnected, how can it be fair that a person can have an effect on the game but not be anywhere near eve,

It is quite funny when you think about it, someone stays online 23/7 cloaked just to **** you off Very Happy in the end i took 70 days and trained my other account Force recon and ecm. He eventually attacked but i was able to target jam him every time until he gave up and moved on.

Listen, get a buddy or another account, then train a toon to sit in a falcon 100km away from operations, at least that way you should be able to defend IF he even bothers to attack,

Ive been camped in this manner for about 4 months Very Happy try to remember that it is phsycological PVP, your ultimatley worried about being attacked, therefore defend as best you can.

Chooch Chooch
Chooch Inc.
Twilight Federation
Posted - 2008.12.15 15:04:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Chooch Chooch on 15/12/2008 15:05:11
Cloaked ships in a hostile system doing nothing for hours on end is a viable terrorist griefing tactic. It should by its self not be nerfed. The argument that they are cloaked and afk is not reasonable as we all know the cloaker is on either another account or doing something else checking their ship scanner every so often for juicy targets of opportunity.

It has been brought up before and seems logical if you want to find cloaked ships design tech 2 probes. There only use would be to find these claoked ships. Have them race specific to the cloaked ship. Make them a pain to train and expensive to build and buy, with a low success rate.

This way it gives the possibility to find a cloaked ship at a price, but the results are low so it still keeps the scale tipped in the cloakers favour.

Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.12.15 15:05:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
His idea is that once every twenty minutes the cloak goes offline for a full cycle due to overheating issues

So I'm sitting outside a station in enemy 0.0 and after 20 min my cloak goes offline? No thanks. Laughing

Yolo
SmellsOFelderbarry
Posted - 2008.12.16 03:15:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Squably
Or stop being a complete noob,
an AFK cloaked ship will not hurt you.


an AFK cloaked ship will not hurt you.
That statement is true, given the pilot really is AFK.

Now there is no such thing as 'AFK' in Eve-Online.
Your online or your Offline.

So I read this as "an cloaked ship will not hurt you."

And that my friend is the least thought thru comment I'v seen all day.
You are aware that you can put a cloak on anything with 30CPU and a highslot?

Katana Seiko
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.16 04:46:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Yolo
You are aware that you can put a cloak on anything with 30CPU and a highslot?

Are you aware that this person looses a high slot this way? Less DPS = less danger.
Don't forget the other negative sideffects like 50% longer targeting and a targeting delay...

I guess these posts will die as soon as local isn't an immediate recon tool anymore...

Yolo
SmellsOFelderbarry
Posted - 2008.12.16 04:59:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Katana Seiko
Originally by: Yolo
You are aware that you can put a cloak on anything with 30CPU and a highslot?

Are you aware that this person looses a high slot this way? Less DPS = less danger.
Don't forget the other negative sideffects like 50% longer targeting and a targeting delay...

I guess these posts will die as soon as local isn't an immediate recon tool anymore...



I can only assume that
A: You have never engaged in cloaked warfare.
B: You have never been engaged in cloaked warfare.

if you fail to notice there are ships that do not have any lock penalty from cloaking device.
There are modules that has no activation delay after decloak.
There are means to mitigate the pentaly, such as bumping your target to prevent them from aligning, or dropping a dictor bubble, or bubble using a previously cloaked HIC.

the presence of a cloaked neut/hostile is a very real danger and should be treated as such.
I'v stated before that the problem with the current play is that the cloaker reaches high efficinecy at low or no risk.
They get to choose their battles wich no exceptions.

and the fact is, its not always 1 cloaked ship.
it can very well be 2 or more.

Causing a very real danger situation, ready to choose their battle.
Very high efficiency at very low or no risk.

Inara Subaka
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.12.16 04:59:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Aaron
Ive argued this many times in previous posts, Ive always insisted that eve online can detect how long a player is inactive for and if its more than 2 hours then they should be disconnected, how can it be fair that a person can have an effect on the game but not be anywhere near eve,


How are they having an effect on the game if they are AFK and cloaked? I am not asking this in jest, I'm seriously looking for an answer.

If someone is honestly AFK, they are not moving, they are not spying, they are not targeting, they are not shooting, they are not doing ANYTHING. How is this disruptive to your playing experience when he doesn't do anything?

I spend most of my time in lowsec, but I spend enough time in 0.0 to know that a face in local but nothing on scan means cloaked ship or deep SS. Either way, I just have to make sure I keep an eye to make sure more numbers aren't coming in and watch my overview (and listen for decloak sounds) to make sure a recon doesn't get a point on me long enough for his buddies to warp in and nab me (scout alt that is technically "afk cloaked" itself).

Mac Maniac
Caldari
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.12.16 07:47:00 - [58]
 

The obvious solution is to give the cloaking device an activation cost. One that exceeds the capability of a cloaker to recharge its cap. So that when the cap finally runs out, the cloak goes off. The cost does not have to be excessive but enough to prevent the 23/7 afk cloaker.
The possible offset is to amp up the ship on cap rechargers, power diags and the like.. I would then suggest a sliding scale on the usage (more cap/recharge rate, the more power it takes to cloak the ship.

Aoa Lux
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.12.16 22:51:00 - [59]
 

I can't wait for CCP to nerf 0.0 local.

I can taste the carebear tears already.

Damoxenos
Posted - 2008.12.16 23:22:00 - [60]
 

Nerf local? while I can see the point but local shouldnt be removed like you are suggesting, it would simply make more people stay in empire and would do nothing to help populate low sec!!

to the OP, if you know he is afk, than what are you worried about? Also if in say 0.0, then you shouldnt be flying alone anyway, just have a combat pilot or two hidden up in a safe spot and fleet up with them, then if you get into trouble they can warp straight to you....

Damo


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