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Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.16 14:07:00 - [1]
 

Hey there,

Looking to change over my hifi speakers soon. Currently running some JPW floorstanders atm, nice units, but I've had them for 5 years now and fancy a change. I'm thinking about switching to B&W floorstanders, but before I raid the second hand stores for a pair, anyone have any and care to comment on them?

Any particular model that stands out? I'm looking to buy second hand, not brand new, as I want to get speakers that are already run-in.

Thanks

Miso x

mahhy
MASS
Posted - 2004.07.16 15:57:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: mahhy on 16/07/2004 15:58:29
No idea if you can find them second hand, as I think they are only a couple years old, but the B&W CM 6 floorstanders are simply superb in my opinion. Fairly expensive new though, which is why I haven't bought a pair yet Confused Been to the shop to listen and compare quite a few times Wink

The entire CM series would be a dream come true to me, but sadly I'm not made of money Very Happy

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.17 10:42:00 - [3]
 

I hear you on the CM6's... I'm hoping to pick up a decent pair of B&W's somewhere, due to the fact that most hi-fi nuts upgrade like every year or two and always sell off perfectly decent equipment for half the price they originally bought it :) Something I dont understand myself.
I bought all my hifi gear that way :)

mahhy
MASS
Posted - 2004.07.17 16:45:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Miso
I hear you on the CM6's... I'm hoping to pick up a decent pair of B&W's somewhere, due to the fact that most hi-fi nuts upgrade like every year or two and always sell off perfectly decent equipment for half the price they originally bought it :) Something I dont understand myself.
I bought all my hifi gear that way :)


If you do find some CM6's please post some nice pic's of them. They have to be simply the most gorgeous speakers I've ever seen. Such simple and clean lines.

I'm planning on moving in the next 6 months or so, but once I get settled hopefully in lovely old UK, I'll definitely be shopping for a set of CM6's.

Any recommendations on an amp to pair them with? I lean towards NAD a bit, since some friends of mine swear by NAD. Ideally I'd like to find a 6.1 channel amp, since I'd like to build it out to a complete home theater, as money permits Razz

Luc Boye
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.17 22:16:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Luc Boye on 17/07/2004 22:18:37

I have B&W few years old, they do kick ass, but they need some time to "play in" as well. Also they are not all that much of boom-box if you want to listen to techno & stuff, but are great on everything else, especially vocals and acoustics.

Not that hard to drive either.

I'd go for some amp that is crisp, like arcam or similar.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.17 23:40:00 - [6]
 

My hifi is set up for vinyl really. I have a Pioneer A-300R Tuned Component amp (integrated), which I bought for, beleive it or not 50... im such a spawny git...Very Happy

NAD amps are pretty good tbh. I was considering a second set up and NAD were on my list to listen to.

As far as B&W go, I really want the Nautilus speakers - one day, they will be mine Twisted Evil

Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2004.07.20 07:41:00 - [7]
 

Miso,

This is could be a very long post... but I will try to keep it short. If you want to discuss it more drop me a line or convo me in game. (I have repaired and collected vintage vacuum tube, and some modern, audio equipment for the last 16 years... so this is something I can talk quite a while about).

B&Ws are garbage. I realize that quite a bit of audio boils down to preference... but they truly are a very bad speaker. One of the most important aspects of getting a magic system together has to do with pairing up an amplifier (or amplifiers if you run dual monos) and a pair of speakers that 'get along'. The majority of this relationship has to do with what is called 'damping factor'... which is essentially an amplifier's ability to exert control over a driver. Finding an amp and a pair of speakers that do this well together is not an easy thing to do. Books have been written about this... Google will tell you quite a bit more about this... so I won't go into it.

My first suggestion (assuming you are really into audio and have a bit of disposable income) is to pick up a tube amp. A Dynaco Stereo 70 runs about $300.00 on eBay. Find someone with some good feedback who seems trustworthy and try one out. Tube audio is *by far* the best audio you will ever come across. I have listened to systems cost more than a house... and if uses transistors (for the most part) it never sounds quite right. A small budget on tube audio gear will go a LONG way.

As for speakers... my current main system speakers are by a company called 'Alon by Acarian' (Alon for short). They are dipolar (meaning they radiate sound both forward and backward) and are therefore more difficult to place... and require a dedicated listening room... or a very understanding wife/husband. Alon is as good as it gets. Period. Carl Marchisotto (the onwer and designer) is a man with superhuman ears and a mind to match. If you can find a place nearby where you can audition some Alon speakers take the time out to do so... you're in for a treat.

Again, if you want more info drop me a line. Good luck... and be patient in your search... a nice system can take some time and frustration to put together... but in the end you'll wind up with some incredible sounds.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.20 07:48:00 - [8]
 

Tovarishch,

Thanks for that. You sound like a mate of mine!

Yeah, I hear pretty much what you are saying. I really dont have the budget to get the system I like, so I've had to accept the fact that I have to work with what I've got. Very Happy

I took a long time to find the right speakers for my current amp, and a friend of mine has some B&W's on his system and they sounded good with my amp. I cant lash out too much as the wife will go mental Shocked

I'm going to take my time with this and make sure I match up the speakers like you suggested. Convo me in game if you see me on Very Happy

Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2004.07.20 17:12:00 - [9]
 

Miso,

Well, you have good ears... NAD makes a good sounding solid-state amplifier... so as long as you are critical about what you are hearing your ears won't steer you wrong. Since NAD is not an uncommon brand... hunt around for a place that sells NAD and auditions several speakers you are interested in. Hunt around for what sounds good in a similar enviroment to your own listening enviroment. And again... be patient! Good luck!

Luc Boye
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.21 09:52:00 - [10]
 

ahh man, live a little, go Arcam Alpha! Oh, and btw, I do have a tube emp, not that good one, but still... 30W in push-pull with EL34s (russian tubes). Still plays the hell lot better then the similar priced stuff you could buy in the stores (I bought DIY kit for about 400 euro, it goes for 650 nowadays).

Im not so academic about the sound I like, just bring along your favvo CDs and ask around the shops for listening sessions (half an hour at least).

Also, when listening new gear, take your time. You may discover that stuff sounds great in first few minutes, but it gets tiresome in the long run (most japanes brands do this for me).

Azure Skyclad
Amarr
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2004.07.21 09:54:00 - [11]
 

ALBA=Win


Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.21 10:48:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Luc Boye

Im not so academic about the sound I like, just bring along your favvo CDs and ask around the shops for listening sessions (half an hour at least).



CDs?? CDs?? What sort of maniac plays CD's on a hi-fi??

Vinyl only for me. Very Happy

Yeah, I spent 2 days once, lugging around my girodeck and a box of records around second hand hi-fi shops in London. My girlfriend at the time, left me shortly afterwards. I still to this day cannot figure out why.

Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2004.07.22 06:55:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/07/2004 07:09:20
It is a well known and very explainable fact that analog mediums of audio reproduction (reel to reels, vinyl, etc) reproduce sound far more accurately than digital. It takes a bit of explaining... but I am between agent missions... so I'll ramble for a moment.

All sound waves have a physical, audible, measurable affect on other sound waves. If you reproduce two very specific frequencies you create a situation where harmonics are going to be created. A great example is a piano manufacturer named Bosendorfer. Many of their pianos are created with several very low register strings that are not attached to keys. The strings reside inside the piano only to create a sympathetic resonance in response to the sound of the other strings being struck. I have been drumming for 16 years now... and got into audio when my band at the time started recording. The engineer in the studio was a drummer and when I first mentioned the whole vinyl/CD thing to him (CDs were not really common back then) he had me tune the drum head on the bottom of my toms out of key to explain this phenomenon using another analogy that hit much closer to home.

All digital mediums (CDs, DAT tapes, etc) are sampled. This means that the audible information on the CD needs to be restricted to a certain window in order to limit the amount of information that needs to be stored on the CD. In the case of most digital formats the sample range is within what is considered the range of human hearing.... 20 hertz (low) to 20 kilohertz (high). Analog does not have this restriction... every single sound for a recording, regardless of it's frequency, is stored on a vinyl record. You see the connection here?

What this creates is a situation where when a CD is played a large portion of the inaudible information that would create audible harmonics is missing... creating inaccurate harmonic information. Vinyl does not have this problem. However, to set up a really, truly incredible vinyl setup can cost a LOT of money. There are turntables that cost far more than a very nice car. A great system built on vinyl is an amazing thing though. It's always fun to see people walk out of my listening room with goosebumps and some shocked look on their face after listening to 'just a plain old record'.

Digital is up and coming though. SACDs are growing more popular and are a huge step forward on closing the gap between vinyl and CDs. Digital hardware is improving also. I use a digital setup about 80% of the time... and though the difference is there... it isn't so painful anymore.

Take care of those records though! Turntables are going strong and have an up and coming following.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.22 10:05:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Miso on 22/07/2004 10:06:28
Originally by: Tovarishch
Edited by: Tovarishch on 22/07/2004 07:09:20
However, to set up a really, truly incredible vinyl setup can cost a LOT of money.


I dunno, mine is pretty cheap, about 300 tops, (second hand gear) and sounds fantastic.

Quote:
There are turntables that cost far more than a very nice car.


I've seen speaker wire for 11,000 per metre. Shocked

Quote:

A great system built on vinyl is an amazing thing though. It's always fun to see people walk out of my listening room with goosebumps and some shocked look on their face after listening to 'just a plain old record'.


Yep. Why people buy CD's is beyond me.

Quote:
Digital is up and coming though. SACDs are growing more popular and are a huge step forward on closing the gap between vinyl and CDs. Digital hardware is improving also. I use a digital setup about 80% of the time... and though the difference is there... it isn't so painful anymore.


I find digital sound too flat and pushy. Vinyl is more warm and recessed. Jesus, I sound like a beard scratcher. Very Happy

Quote:
Turntables are going strong and have an up and coming following.


Their popularity has never waned. Its just that electronics companies told a load of lies about digital sound - ie, "its better than vinyl, throw away all your records and replace them with CD's!" I wonder why they did that?

Throw away your CD's and get some plastic: Vinyl

Smokey Joe
ORPHANS OF EVE
Posted - 2004.07.22 11:03:00 - [15]
 

miso

if you're in the uk take a look in richer sounds, they are very fairly priced, also do second hand gear and should test everything out for you.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.22 12:09:00 - [16]
 

Richer sounds are ok, but they tend to have a very limited range of stuff. And their selection of things like turntables, is not that great.

Anyone recommend any good UK-based second hand hifi web-sites? (apart from Hi-Fi Choice)

duckling1
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.08.03 00:17:00 - [17]
 

I have these 1 year old B&W hooked to my tv, and a set of 30 year old KEF's to go with my 33 year old Quad sterio.
Some dude offered me 2000 euro for the quad Shocked
Might be the reason I'm not sellingCool

BTW, go for B&W the sound is the best I have ever heard

FlareZFX
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.08.03 03:29:00 - [18]
 

Get Genelec 1029A active studio monitors, and you won't ever regreat it. The size of the speakers is amazingly small compared to their rich sound, lots of major record labels use the very same speakers for mastering etc.

The pricetag is the only downside, they sell for about 800 a pair. Here's a link for more info:

http://www.genelec.com/products/1029a/1029a.php

Luc Boye
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.08.03 08:33:00 - [19]
 

studio monitors is not same thing as musical speakers, say some. myself I never bothered.


 

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