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blankseplocked [Regarding EULA] Is my 3rd Party-App allowed? Please answers from GMs
 
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Author Topic

Koshedei
Posted - 2008.12.12 09:50:00 - [1]
 

Hi there,
i dont know if this is the right forum section but i think its the most adequate one.

I am working on a tool that is able to set the Overview-Settings of Eve automatically. It should help to restore Overview-Settings after new installation of client or after loss because of patch or to have the same settings on many accounts easily(even corpwide).

It works with teaching-points and so dont need to get any information out of the client. After teaching the points it will
just start to click in the Overview-Settings Window to make the settings. The clicks are very fixed and cannot be modified by the user in the way, that he can use the tool as mining-bot or something awfull.YARRRR!!

But now after i have tested enough to see that its working, i am not sure if it is allowed by the EULA or not.
I think it is, some corpmates said not.

So i want to ask if this concept breaks the EULA. I think the important part of the EULA is Topic 7. Conduct:

1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.
>>> Don't think so because the Overview-Settings are stored on the client.

2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
>>> Don't know if making settings is "modifying content" or "change how the game is played". But i think not.

3. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
>>> Well, its kind of a macro. But its not used to get items, isk, char attributes or something like that. It's just used to make Overview-Settings.

Number 4. and 5. are nonrelevant for my program, i think.

So. Please tell me if i can continue work on my program or if i can throw all stuff into the trash.Sad
I am especially interessted in comments of GMs. Maybe you can give me an official confirmation, that it is allowed to use such a program.

If there are some things not clear about the concept of the program, ask and you will get answers.

Thanks so long,
Koshedei

Rivqua
Caldari
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.12.12 10:05:00 - [2]
 

It has been confirmed by Devs that it breaks the EULA. Mainly because it modifies CCP proprietary file system, and you need to have reverse-engineered it to be able to edit the files. Unfortunately a big no to this app, even if I would love to have it, so one could make a mock-up for certain resolutions out of game, then save them to file.

/Riv

Kaiden Exeider
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.12 10:30:00 - [3]
 

well then CCP needs to have a couple of buttons in the ESC menu, Load Cache Settings and Save Cache settings. where you can save your current settings to a file, and then load from it.

-

CCP Lingorm


C C P
Posted - 2008.12.12 10:49:00 - [4]
 

Just confirming that modifying the cache files is against the EULA.

CCP Atlas has a design for the Save/Load Settings files functionality, but we do not allow you to modify the Cache files of you client.

StepFam
Caldari
United Kings
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.12.12 10:52:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: StepFam on 12/12/2008 10:52:44
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Just confirming that modifying the cache files is against the EULA.

CCP Atlas has a design for the Save/Load Settings files functionality, but we do not allow you to modify the Cache files of you client.



cant wait for that any idea when it would be ready for testing?

and op nice ideas mate shame bout eula but hey look on the bright side now u dont have to do the coding and u got a DEV responce within an hour enter the big lotto and RL lottos ftw :)

Koshedei
Posted - 2008.12.12 10:59:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Rivqua
It has been confirmed by Devs that it breaks the EULA. Mainly because it modifies CCP proprietary file system, and you need to have reverse-engineered it to be able to edit the files. Unfortunately a big no to this app, even if I would love to have it, so one could make a mock-up for certain resolutions out of game, then save them to file.

/Riv

Sorry, but i think you did not read more then the 2 first sentences. You think i am editing files. Thats not what i do.
I just click the settings in the Overview-Window of Eve. You just have to move your mouse to the corners of the setting window. Then these Coordinates are saved and the program calculates where the scrollbar is and where the elements of the list are and clicks there.(Lots of math, but it works)
It is making the settings just like you would do with mouse, only that its automated.
So there is no file editing and or reverse engineering. (Or at least i wouldnt call "look how much pixels high a column is" as reverse engineering)

Quote:

well then CCP needs to have a couple of buttons in the ESC menu, Load Cache Settings and Save Cache settings. where you can save your current settings to a file, and then load from it.

The Settings you make are saved in a file. You cant select to save it, or to load it. But somewhere they have to be stored. And its not on the server as you see after reinstalling the client. Then all your Overview-Settings are lost.

GM Guard

Posted - 2008.12.12 11:26:00 - [7]
 

For future reference I would likt to offer the petition system for questions of this nature.

GMs are on call 24/7 to answer questions and can always find out for you whether something like this is in accordance with the rules or not.

Best Regards,
Lead GM Guard
EVE Online Customer Support

Miss Rumpelstilzchen
Minmatar
Black Horizon Ltd
Posted - 2008.12.12 11:27:00 - [8]
 

your Settings are savet @
C:\Dokument and Settings\YOUR MAIN USER\Local Settings\Applicationdata\CCP\EVE\

im not sure it this folder have the right names couse i use the German Windows XP

in german its:
C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\YOUR MAIN USER\Lokale Einstellungen\Anwendungsdaten\CCP\EVE

there are the settings for your TQ and Sisi Client

the bad part is, its only for your Eve Users. so you can`t use it for someone else, or i dont know how to make it for other users, yet

Neddy Fox
Gallente
FireStar Inc
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.12 11:48:00 - [9]
 

Looks like the dev wasn't reading. No files are modified, it's a MACRO to set the overview settings correct !

Leeluvv
The Black Ops
Posted - 2008.12.12 11:56:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Leeluvv on 12/12/2008 11:57:08
Wow, would have been nice if CCP had actually read the post before replying, but this ties in with their behaviour on any mildly complex petitions. You get a bland response demonstrating that they didn't read, let alone understand, what you told them.

This is the same idea as:

"Can I have an external macro to undock my ship?"

It doesn't load CCP's servers.
Does not modify any game content.
Does not make ISK.

The macro presses the button, but the client does the undocking. This is the same for the overview settings. You are telling the client what to do, but you are using a macro to move the mouse, not your hand. You are not modifying any Eve files.

Lee

CCP Lingorm


C C P
Posted - 2008.12.12 12:33:00 - [11]
 

If it is a macro to automatically set up the settings "through the client" then I suggest that you petition the GM's as they are more informed on the use/abuse of Macro's and can answer you question.

I misunderstood it to mean that you would read teh settings/cache files for Overview settings and then change them which is not allowed.

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.12 13:19:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 12/12/2008 13:19:12
WTH?

I have a copy of my cached settings for overview / market / ppl n places so that when EVE crashes and kills all settings, i have them ready for backup. (yes it happens sometimes).
Does that mean that I'm not allowed to check my cached settings and overwrite them with older ones if I find it neccessary? Cause tbh that's called rewriting files....

V.

Koshedei
Posted - 2008.12.12 14:24:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Koshedei on 12/12/2008 14:39:21
Because it seems like some people dont understand the concept of my program i've made a short screencap of my testapp:
Video WMV
I hope anyone can now see how its working.
The program brings eve-window to front, but is still the active app. Then i place my cursor on each side of the overview-window
and press spacebar. after this. the points are known to my program and it can calculate the position of scrollbar and other important points. then, all it does is sending clicking-events to windows. So all i do with eve is mouse-movement and clicking.
No File editing or client editing!

Meanwhile i contacted a GM and hope for positive Feedback

CCP Lingorm


C C P
Posted - 2008.12.12 15:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 12/12/2008 13:19:12
WTH?

I have a copy of my cached settings for overview / market / ppl n places so that when EVE crashes and kills all settings, i have them ready for backup. (yes it happens sometimes).
Does that mean that I'm not allowed to check my cached settings and overwrite them with older ones if I find it neccessary? Cause tbh that's called rewriting files....

V.


Taking a 'copy' and then restoring them is perfectly fine.

What I am saying is that you are not allowed to open those files and change them and save them again.

gunnar aztek
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.28 04:14:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: gunnar aztek on 28/01/2009 04:15:36
does someone know what file contains the overview settings ?

i'm in here "C:\Users\Gunni\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE"

i only want to have a unchanged copy just to have all clients the same, so annoying to have to set all clients :P

instead i set one and it's ready :D

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.01.28 11:44:00 - [16]
 

so basically every time i delete the cache folder, i commit a bannable offense..?

MyOwnSling
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.01.28 14:32:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Roemy Schneider
so basically every time i delete the cache folder, i commit a bannable offense..?
Deleting is not the same thing as modifying.

War Porcika
FREE GATES
Posted - 2009.01.28 15:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: gunnar aztek
Edited by: gunnar aztek on 28/01/2009 04:15:36
does someone know what file contains the overview settings ?

i'm in here "C:\Users\Gunni\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE"

i only want to have a unchanged copy just to have all clients the same, so annoying to have to set all clients :P

instead i set one and it's ready :D

The overview setting is sitting in the Settings directory. Two directory deeper.

Dani Leone
Gallente
Positively Idle
Posted - 2009.01.28 20:29:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: GM Guard
For future reference I would likt to offer the petition system for questions of this nature.

GMs are on call 24/7 to answer questions and can always find out for you whether something like this is in accordance with the rules or not.

Best Regards,
Lead GM Guard
EVE Online Customer Support


I think it's probably better if its posted right here, that way it saves other folks looking at the same area from repeating the same work and asking the same question with a hidden negative response.

Georgina Eldridge
Posted - 2009.01.28 21:01:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 12/12/2008 13:19:12
WTH?

I have a copy of my cached settings for overview / market / ppl n places so that when EVE crashes and kills all settings, i have them ready for backup. (yes it happens sometimes).
Does that mean that I'm not allowed to check my cached settings and overwrite them with older ones if I find it neccessary? Cause tbh that's called rewriting files....

V.


Taking a 'copy' and then restoring them is perfectly fine.

What I am saying is that you are not allowed to open those files and change them and save them again.



Might I ask for the reasoning behind this?

Kembla
Posted - 2009.01.29 06:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: gunnar aztek
does someone know what file contains the overview settings ?

C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE\d_program_files_eve_online_tranquility\settings\user_#.dat

The Vixen
Stone Rosary
Posted - 2009.01.29 16:45:00 - [22]
 

No success finding the settings .dat file.

Please_point_me_in_the_right_direction?_ugh

_Directory_of_C:\Program_Files\CCP\EVE

01/29/2009__11:41_AM____<DIR>__________.
01/29/2009__11:41_AM____<DIR>__________..
01/08/2009__06:10_PM____<DIR>__________bin
01/27/2009__04:17_PM____<DIR>__________bulkdata
01/26/2009__02:30_PM_______________181_common.ini
11/25/2008__04:21_PM___________558,336_eve.exe
11/30/2008__11:39_PM_____________1,494_eve.exe_(Safe_Mode).lnk
01/27/2009__04:17_PM____<DIR>__________lib
11/05/2008__09:32_AM_________1,018,624_LogServer.exe
01/26/2009__02:30_PM_____________7,234_manifest.dat
08/23/2008__02:31_PM___________124,160_NetClient.dll
08/23/2008__02:31_PM____________47,872_NetUtil.dll
01/08/2009__06:06_PM____<DIR>__________res
11/23/2008__08:37_PM________96,028,998_res.stuff
12/05/2008__04:40_PM_________2,781,329_res2.stuff
08/23/2008__02:38_PM________81,513,680_resCelestialTextures.stuff
11/05/2008__09:52_AM_______130,084,124_resCOSMOS.stuff
11/05/2008__09:52_AM_______205,646,517_resdungeons.stuff
11/23/2008__03:39_PM_______202,765,305_resDX9.stuff
11/23/2008__03:39_PM________71,882,975_resDX9Amarr.stuff
11/05/2008__04:53_AM_______152,587,632_resDX9AmarrShips.stuff
11/05/2008__04:53_AM_______184,374,769_resDX9AmarrStations.stuff
11/23/2008__03:39_PM________71,509,484_resDX9Caldari.stuff
11/23/2008__03:39_PM_______124,961,991_resDX9CaldariShips.stuff
11/05/2008__04:53_AM_______139,942,053_resDX9CaldariStations.stuff
11/05/2008__04:52_AM________83,805,090_resDX9Drones.stuff
11/23/2008__03:39_PM________62,512,386_resDX9Gallente.stuff
11/05/2008__04:54_AM_______139,277,715_resDX9GallenteShips.stuff
11/05/2008__04:51_AM_______114,218,788_resDX9GallenteStations.stuff
11/05/2008__04:53_AM_______137,044,917_resDX9Hangars.stuff
11/23/2008__03:39_PM________80,138,258_resDX9Minmatar.stuff
11/05/2008__04:54_AM_______143,236,407_resDX9MinmatarShips.stuff
11/05/2008__04:53_AM________99,086,754_resDX9MinmatarStations.stuff
08/23/2008__02:37_PM________80,194,233_resFace.stuff
08/29/2008__06:04_AM_______305,984,118_resFaceTextures.stuff
01/26/2009__02:28_PM________10,870,253_resLangPack.DE.stuff
11/23/2008__08:38_PM___________239,334_resLangPack.ES.stuff
11/23/2008__08:38_PM___________253,992_resLangPack.FR.stuff
11/23/2008__08:38_PM___________246,838_resLangPack.IT.stuff
11/23/2008__08:38_PM___________181,230_resLangPack.JA.stuff
11/23/2008__08:38_PM___________258,646_resLangPack.KO.stuff
11/23/2008__08:37_PM___________256,814_resLangPack.PT.stuff
11/23/2008__08:38_PM___________236,633_resLangPack.RU.stuff
11/05/2008__09:51_AM_______191,432,134_resMusic.stuff
08/23/2008__02:38_PM_______110,048,823_resSND.stuff
11/23/2008__08:38_PM_______192,300,815_resTextures.stuff
01/21/2009__09:21_AM_______118,082,806_resui.stuff
12/05/2008__04:40_PM_________1,078,255_resUICore.stuff
01/27/2009__04:17_PM____<DIR>__________script
01/26/2009__02:30_PM________________77_start.ini
01/29/2009__11:42_AM_________________0_tree.txt
11/05/2008__09:52_AM________32,817,225_tut2.stuff
11/30/2008__11:39_PM___________566,995_Uninstall.exe

Avalira
Caldari
The Black Light Foundation
Posted - 2009.01.29 20:50:00 - [23]
 

Guys you are derailing the topic. He just wants to know if we can use a 3rd party program that ONLY restores the overview by SIMULATING CLICKS DIRECTLY ON THE EVE CLIENT.

Personally I would love such a program so that I can easily copy my (new) settings to a different install. Until CCP are actually capable of coding a proper overview settings file that doesn't go corrupt every time granny drinks tea then they should allow this.

Good work Koshedei!

The Vixen
Stone Rosary
Posted - 2009.01.30 02:14:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: The Vixen on 30/01/2009 02:14:54
Originally by: Avalira
Guys you are derailing the topic. He just wants to know if we can use a 3rd party program that ONLY restores the overview by SIMULATING CLICKS DIRECTLY ON THE EVE CLIENT.

Personally I would love such a program so that I can easily copy my (new) settings to a different install. Until CCP are actually capable of coding a proper overview settings file that doesn't go corrupt every time granny drinks tea then they should allow this.

Good work Koshedei!


It must SUCK to work for CCP! Nothing but a bunch of smart-people constantly insulting other, hard-working smart people.

Edit: How's THAT for derailing the thread? Razz

The Vixen
Stone Rosary
Posted - 2009.01.30 02:51:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Avalira
Until CCP are actually capable of coding a proper overview settings file that doesn't go corrupt every time granny drinks tea then they should allow this.


I'll add to that. They might come in and post in a lot more threads if a lot of jackass people like you weren't sitting in here waiting to throw words. YARRRR!!

Mell Prime
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.30 06:44:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Mell Prime on 30/01/2009 06:44:53
Originally by: Koshedei
Edited by: Koshedei on 12/12/2008 14:39:21
Because it seems like some people dont understand the concept of my program i've made a short screencap of my testapp:
Video WMV
I hope anyone can now see how its working.
The program brings eve-window to front, but is still the active app. Then i place my cursor on each side of the overview-window
and press spacebar. after this. the points are known to my program and it can calculate the position of scrollbar and other important points. then, all it does is sending clicking-events to windows. So all i do with eve is mouse-movement and clicking.
No File editing or client editing!

Meanwhile i contacted a GM and hope for positive Feedback


For what i see here. its not Violating the EULA. But you will run into 2 problems.
1: People can edit your work, and turn it into a macro miner.
2: If locked, people will not trust you, cuz it could have a key logger in it.

greater detail:

1: If you have it as open source, people can just copy your work, change a few settings, and *Boom* macro miner bot. But even if you lock it, or close off the source code, people will not believe you.

2: so if don't make it open source, People will have a hard time believing you, and will automatically think you are trying to get the downloaders accounts.

My suggestion. Trash your work. or Just leave it for yourself, corpmates, or friends.

Kembla
Posted - 2009.01.30 15:36:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: The Vixen
No success finding the settings .dat file.

Please_point_me_in_the_right_direction?_ugh

_Directory_of_C:\Program_Files\CCP\EVE

Originally by: Kembla
C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE\d_program_files_eve_online_tranquility\settings\user_#.dat

The Vixen
Stone Rosary
Posted - 2009.01.30 21:46:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kembla
Originally by: The Vixen
No success finding the settings .dat file.

Please_point_me_in_the_right_direction?_ugh

_Directory_of_C:\Program_Files\CCP\EVE

Originally by: Kembla
C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE\d_program_files_eve_online_tranquility\settings\user_#.dat



Damnit... Maybe if I read a little slower I would have noticed the important part of that directory URL... C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Local Settings\Application Data\ and not the place that I was looking: \Program Files\CCP\yaddayadda

nardaq
UK Corp
Posted - 2009.02.01 09:54:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: nardaq on 01/02/2009 09:54:02
what CCP need todo is able to load/save setting from/to disk include the overview position etc.


 

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