open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked Starbase exploit addressed
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 39 40 41 42 [43] 44 45 46 47 ... : last (95)

Author Topic

Cybele Lanier
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:03:00 - [1261]
 

Originally by: LiNkIsMaXiMuS
ArrowRemember rumors are not truth.


Are you saying CAOD has lied to me? Surprised

Devian 666
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:05:00 - [1262]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

And this proves your point how?



How does your trolling contribute to this thread?

The issue I have raised is that CCP go to great lengths to ignore any reports of problems, and don't put in the effort to understand them. If they had this issue would not have gone on for 4 years.

Superfailsauce
Neo Spartans
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:09:00 - [1263]
 

I find this all quite ridiculous...

This is not T20 all over again, simply a group of people making use of a game bug to line their pockets.
Offending parties have been banned (none of whom are BOB affiliates) and I'm sure CCP are digging deeper as we speak.

Yes there were failings in picking it up. Who cares. What's done is done, instead of whining about your 4 years of minimal profit margins start looking at ways to increase those margins now.

ShardowRhino
Caldari
Torque Theory
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:10:00 - [1264]
 

EPIC THREAD IS EPIC!!!!!!!!ShockedShocked

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:12:00 - [1265]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/12/2008 01:18:40
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/12/2008 01:12:43
Originally by: Devian 666
Originally by: Ranger 1

And this proves your point how?



How does your trolling contribute to this thread?

The issue I have raised is that CCP go to great lengths to ignore any reports of problems, and don't put in the effort to understand them. If they had this issue would not have gone on for 4 years.


I edited something into that post as an after thought that may make you reconsider. Truth to tell, I'm not the troll here.

In fact, let me put that edit here for you.

Edit: If you look at his post closely, you will see that he quotes statement a dev made about CCP's reimbursement policy for losses. Please tell me why he would quote that if the petition he mentions is about free moon minerals. It makes absolutely no sense.

This is a classic example of "If you throw enough crap on the floor, someone will fall for it".

The thread in question.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:17:00 - [1266]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 12/12/2008 02:02:29
Look at that... what a shocking surprise. I have seen something strange going on with the advanced materials prices for more than a year and a half now, this explains allot.

Personally this is what we should worry about: "Working with the Research & Statistics team we have established that the effects on the markets have been considerable and far reaching." and "On December 7th 2008, a date which will live in infamy, a petition from a concerned player alerted us to a serious problem with Starbase reactors."

This inconsistency bothers me allot. Because, after doing some research, gathering admittedly anecdotal evidence from sources inside and outside the game - this exploit is older than 12 months. What is shocking is that certain entities at CCP knew of it's existence and chose to ignore it. Why I think this is the case? Because, CCP never addresses an issue until it become a nightmare, they never act unless their backs against the wall - we have seen this over and over again, repeated over many years.

The issue with the cost of T2 materials has been going on for too long, and most of EVE players have experienced it. We can not rely on the fact that this has been an isolated incident, this was a widespread exploitation, and we were all touched by it.

Questions and needs....now... are these:

CCP needs to make clear the extent of the exploit, and come clean as to why it was overlooked for so long. And try not to repeat the "Ghost Training" fiasco - hey T0rfi, I hope you doing well mateCool.

CCP needs to explain to all the players which actions were taken against which entities, because from what I have learned, the real culprits have not been punished. And, number of out of EVE Online Forum sources have listed the speculation that "ALT/MAIN" accounts were purchased by these people specifically to safeguard themselves for such an event as we are experiencing now.

Alliances, and corporations that were involved in it need to be disbanded. Something like this would not go unnoticed in an alliance of 10,000 players, much less in something like what 500-2,000 players that were supposedly part of those involved. If not on personal level, then on CORPORATE level they are responsible, and such need to be terminated as entities. They were all complicit, if only by observing the code of silence because "it helped their alliance."

All assets, all corporate, and alliance assets must be seized. All assets of CEOs, and ruling elite has to be seized. And recent transfers from corporate hangars traced and seized as well. And, I do not care if they ban them, just make sure to let the players know the names, the EVE population will deal with them swiftly themselves.

Oh well, I am not surprised at CCP, I would not be surprised if CCP Employees were involved in this as well, or that they have learned through petition about it, and have been abusing this mechanic themselves for personal gain. I am also fairly certain that the amount of ISK collected did not all go to wars and T2 BPOs, I am sure a significant amount of it have wound up for sale on E-Bay and other places.

***There, changed "allot" to "significant amount."

stupid flanders
Planet Express LLC
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:20:00 - [1267]
 

Read the firt 18 pages as they happened last night before the real world took hold. Can I get a summery of what has happend from then on? (Scanned all pages for blue/red bars but didnt see any)
Thanks in advanced
-Flanders

Devian 666
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:20:00 - [1268]
 

Edited by: Devian 666 on 12/12/2008 01:22:21
Originally by: Ranger 1
I edited something into that post as an after thought that may make you reconsider. Truth to tell, I'm not the troll here.

In fact, let me put that edit here for you.

Edit: If you look at his post closely, you will see that he quotes statement a dev made about CCP's reimbursement policy for losses. Please tell me why he would quote that if the petition he mentions is about free moon minerals. It makes absolutely no sense.

This is a classic example of "If you throw enough crap on the floor, someone will fall for it".




I think you're trying to read a bit too much into my post. Reread what I wrote in that sentance.

While the 2005 thread is about CCP handling petitions poorly. Maltroc did say that he emailed Kieron about the exploit as the petitions he'd filed had been ignored or misunderstood by the GM who dealt with it.

There are two people that have publically stated that they reported the exploit. It makes me wonder how many people reported the exploit and were ignored.

I'm only pointing out that the QA on bug testing, reporting and petitions needs to be improved.

You seem to be focused on some conspiracy involving CCP which has nothing to do with my post.

Davina Braben
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:20:00 - [1269]
 

[ 2008.12.12 01:20:36 ] (notify) Waffles are Roffled.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:28:00 - [1270]
 

Originally by: Devian 666
Edited by: Devian 666 on 12/12/2008 01:22:21
Originally by: Ranger 1
I edited something into that post as an after thought that may make you reconsider. Truth to tell, I'm not the troll here.

In fact, let me put that edit here for you.

Edit: If you look at his post closely, you will see that he quotes statement a dev made about CCP's reimbursement policy for losses. Please tell me why he would quote that if the petition he mentions is about free moon minerals. It makes absolutely no sense.

This is a classic example of "If you throw enough crap on the floor, someone will fall for it".




I think you're trying to read a bit too much into my post. Reread what I wrote in that sentance.

While the 2005 thread is about CCP handling petitions poorly. Maltroc did say that he emailed Kieron about the exploit as the petitions he'd filed had been ignored or misunderstood by the GM who dealt with it.

There are two people that have publically stated that they reported the exploit. It makes me wonder how many people reported the exploit and were ignored.

I'm only pointing out that the QA on bug testing, reporting and petitions needs to be improved.

You seem to be focused on some conspiracy involving CCP which has nothing to do with my post.


And what I am saying is that people are taking as fact wild claims that this exploit has been going on for years, and that CCP ignored petitions about it... pointing at this thread and that post in particular.

Now that you are saying that the point you were trying to make has nothing "directly" to do with the topic being discussed in this thread, that's fine. To get back on topic then "ahem", lets see the proof that this was petitioned years ago. Some mention of it, some post, a single shred of evidence will do. And no, taking the word of people that got banned for using this exploit isn't good enough to qualify as "evidence", not by a long shot.


Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:31:00 - [1271]
 

I don't want this to come off as a whine, so I apologize if it does. Despite what many people believe, the high end industrialists like myself and market traders don't just generate isk while sitting on our collective rears. It takes a lot of research, spreadsheets and risky decisions to make a profit. You tend to your POS's, make sure your silos don't overflow, you stay up late at night waiting on a manufacturing job just so you can submit the other one. You open another acct or train your existing pvp'er to produce items because you simply cant use enough slots to meet demand. You look at moon mineral prices and make risky decisions, like buy and react now, or let the starbase idle for the next week. When you do get isk, you do your research and try to decide what the next venture will be. That's EvE to me and I love it. But exploits like this cheapen the effort everyone goes through.

I bet the people who did this exploit would sometimes be so callous they would let the silos overflow - they had a free lunch. Its like printing isk. Did EvE not get boring over those 4 years? Was it really fun to play on cheat mode?

Finally I am disappointed that CCP only found out about this 4 years later. The db queries within reach of Dr EyjoG should have indicated that the amount of advanced materials being produced did not correlate with the moons. This might have changed the way alchemy is implemented. I would like to see what percentage of the advanced materials being produced came from this exploit, and then I would like to see the 20:1 alchemy ratio be tweaked accordingly.

Bethorn
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:36:00 - [1272]
 

All this fuss over an internet game?

Davina Braben
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:36:00 - [1273]
 

To be fair to the guy I doubt it even occurred to him to look for dupes.

He's an economist. You have to be a MMO player to know what dupes is.

Devian 666
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:37:00 - [1274]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

And no, taking the word of people that got banned for using this exploit isn't good enough to qualify as "evidence", not by a long shot.



I related my experiences of reporting exploits in the past and the fact that I have had to lobby in threads to make CCP fix the exploits. What you are really saying is that my "evidence" does not qualify either.

Do go on brown nosing CCP.


Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:37:00 - [1275]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1


And what I am saying is that people are taking as fact wild claims that this exploit has been going on for years, and that CCP ignored petitions about it... pointing at this thread and that post in particular.




Those "wild" claims have way more credibility to me than CCP has after all the screwing up they did in the past years.

I am yet to see ANY claim at all proved false, in all the polemic topics that appeared in the same time period. And EVERYTIME, people like you, come desperately trying to deny what later is proved true inexorably.

I don't care in which alliance the people who cheated are. Be it Morsus Mihi, BoB, Ev0ke, or whatever. What I DO care is that the people who benefited from this cheating are punished accordingly.

And you know, considering CCP has all the records from all transactions in the game, it is remarkably easy to make an algorithm to trace this money. That is, if you know how to program, which unfortunately Eve's devs proved time and again they don't...

Sheila Deteia
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:41:00 - [1276]
 

Originally by: Jinx Barker


Alliances, and corporations that were involved in it need to be disbanded. Something like this would not go unnoticed in an alliance of 10,000 players, much less in something like what 500-2,000 players that were supposedly part of those involved. If not on personal level, then on CORPORATE level they are responsible, and such need to be terminated as entities. They were all complicit, if only by observing the code of silence because "it helped their alliance."



Naa m8 , dont think it to be fair to punish a whole alliance and its members for something a small group of industrialists and its leaders would of kept to themselves , this would of been kept as top secret as they possibly could.

This exploit have already done enough damage , it realy just needs to be corrected, smoothed over and lets just get on with the game , yea?, now the only damage that can be done , is everyone whinging and carrying on about it...its just a game, you havnt lost anything.

Atlas Oracle
Minmatar
Colossus Enterprises
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:43:00 - [1277]
 

I really wonder if CCP will step up and explain the full situation.
I doubt they will.

The ardent little fanbois will play no matter what, but reasonable consumers have a right to expect more from CCP than allowing this to happen, especially if CCP employees are involved.

I have very little confidence CCP will conduct themselves well in regards to this incident going forward, but I'd love to be suprised.

Laskin Veldstar
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:49:00 - [1278]
 

I for one am thankful that CCP has discovered the misuse (albeit it could of been faster [Though I work tickets for an ISP for a living and can understand to a degree how fast issues get worked]). It will be interesting to see how large the economic impact is. I, like most, hope to hear some of the dirty details (if any come about).

I just wanted to toss a thanks out there to CCP for doing something about a bunch of cheating pricks. Sorry if my post was redunant, I just didn't want to read through 43 pages of people whining and complaining.

jeffb
GoonFleet
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:50:00 - [1279]
 

CCP needs to atleast follow up the major isk trails rather than just ban the alt corps, maybe they are trying to do that right now who knows.

Soto ShinDo
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:52:00 - [1280]
 

Edited by: Soto ShinDo on 12/12/2008 01:53:14
Originally by: iR R e t a r d
I was told the Estimated Value of the exploit, roughly examined with $$$ Dollers was about 30million Dollers, 1 person admitted to making 3million Dollers from this...


Congratulations.

You just earned your name, ALT Rolling Eyes

cheephough
Caldari
Infinite Improbability Inc
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:55:00 - [1281]
 

Originally by: Jacque Custeau


I bet the people who did this exploit would sometimes be so callous they would let the silos overflow - they had a free lunch. Its like printing isk. Did EvE not get boring over those 4 years? Was it really fun to play on cheat mode?




I like doing it in Empire Earth (all your base are belong to us)

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:56:00 - [1282]
 

Edited by: Gamer4liff on 12/12/2008 01:57:52
Originally by: Superfailsauce

Yes there were failings in picking it up. Who cares. What's done is done, instead of whining about your 4 years of minimal profit margins start looking at ways to increase those margins now.


Grats on not understanding the T2 economy, the exploit increased profit margins for T2 producers, not decreased the margins. As terrible as it is we all profited from the exploit. Except for the people legitimately moon mining, of course.

Originally by: Jinx Barker
allot.


While I agree with a lot of what you said please stop saying "allot" "allot" means to allocate money in a budget, the words you're looking for are "a lot".

Tanaki Arus
Posted - 2008.12.12 01:59:00 - [1283]
 

The damage has already been done, but I'm still pretty disappointed in CCP for allowing it to happen for so long.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.12.12 02:01:00 - [1284]
 

Originally by: Gamer4liff

Originally by: Jinx Barker
allot.


While I agree with a lot of what you said please stop saying "allot" "allot" means to allocate money in a budget, the words you're looking for are "a lot".


I agree, sorry, I will blame it on the late hour here. Cool

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.12 02:01:00 - [1285]
 

Originally by: Gamer4liff

Grats on not understanding the T2 economy, the exploit increased profit margins for T2 producers, not decreased the margins. As terrible as it is we all profited from the exploit. Except for the people legitimately moon mining, of course.


You are so naive. It decreased profits for all T2 producers, because the people who did it could produce T2 almost for free IN ADDITION to selling the components.

So they profitted from the T2 market AND from the T2 producers, especially ship inventors, who had to compete with prices and costs that made impossible for them to profit.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.12.12 02:03:00 - [1286]
 

just posting here to say i find it hilarious some people really think CCP has no better way to 'cheat' in the game than by not acting on some weird POS bug

if CCP really wanted to help their pet alliance (whoever you think it is) it wouldn't be by letting them in on an exploit and potentially ruining the economy, it would be by just running a db query in some downtime to give them an extra 500 billion or whatever, into alliance wallet

isk is fake. virtual. an integer stored in a database. they can will it into existence with no trace. the conspiracy stuff is pretty stupid.

Lady Karma
Posted - 2008.12.12 02:04:00 - [1287]
 

Originally by: Braaage
Originally by: Devian 666
In my past experience of trying to get CCP to fix exploits the process is as follows.

* petition
* get cookie cutter response
* start thread to lobby the situation and petition including details and links
* get cookie cutter response
* ask for escalation because the gm didn't read the petition
* submit bug reports with full details
* have bug report sent back because it wasn't in the correct format (even though it was)

None of what has happend is of any surprise after my experiences. It also doesn't surprise me that both Eris and Kieron both posted in a 2005 thread discussing this issue.

Quality Assurance isn't about ignoring problems. Maybe CCP should review ISO 9001 QA standard and see what the sort of procedures that would help avoid systematic blunders.


This is exactly what I was going to post, I have in the past been the first to spot a game breaking exploit. I had to scream and shout from the top of my voice after bug reporting, petitioning and basically being ignored.

Eventually someone heard me that thought hey what's he on about and actually looked. At that point the TQ cluster went into immediate shutdown (they could do this cos it was straight after a big patch) and fixed.

Bug reports have to be right on the button with as much evidence and screenshots otherwise most of the time the person who reads them does not understand WTF you are on about.

I even took to making a video and hosting it of a particular bug because I thought there's no way I can explain this in words.

Since 4 years ago bug reports were probably handled differently to now I don't know what to say, but all you people screaming at CCP have got to give them enough time to sift through 4 years of exploiting and market transactions. That in itself I reckon is going to take weeks if not months.


Quoting this.

CCP may like to sweep things under the carpet, but here is your problem.


Delos Korelian
Amarr
Korelian's Salvage and Reclamation
Posted - 2008.12.12 02:05:00 - [1288]
 

I am certain that REAL LIFE CASH had nothing to do with it, and that they DID NOT SELL STUFF FOR IT. Yes, it was all spent in game. ugh

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.12 02:06:00 - [1289]
 

Originally by: Sheila Deteia

Naa m8 , dont think it to be fair to punish a whole alliance and its members for something a small group of industrialists and its leaders would of kept to themselves , this would of been kept as top secret as they possibly could.

This exploit have already done enough damage , it realy just needs to be corrected, smoothed over and lets just get on with the game , yea?, now the only damage that can be done , is everyone whinging and carrying on about it...its just a game, you havnt lost anything.



It is fair to punish the alliances and corps if they received large sums of money coming from this exploit, and consequently benefited from it.

And it is just a game, but it is a game where most of us have spent a long time, only to see our efforts turning into a joke.

The guys who did it, damaged Eve economy, Eve politics, and dwarved everything conquered through hard work and merit in the game. And worse, if the results of their exploits are not accounted for and taken from them they WILL continue doing so.

There are trillions of laundered ISK obtained from duped materials. This money must be seized and destroyed as well as the assets boguht with it.

abraheam
Dirty Denizens
Posted - 2008.12.12 02:08:00 - [1290]
 

This may be a far fetched scenario, but the people doing this could have basicaly been holding the economy of eve hostage.

Even if CCP knew about it they may have figured they couldn't patch the game, or bann the exploiters until they had a reasonable solution to the economic impact. This patch being delayed, along with the introduction of alchemy is a pretty funny piece of evidence for that scenario.

/tinfoil





Pages: first : previous : ... 39 40 41 42 [43] 44 45 46 47 ... : last (95)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only