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Underpaid Overworked
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:28:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


Whats to thank? It should have been fixed ages ago, and now that the whistle is blown they are pulling another T20.

XxHey BabyxX
Gallente
THE INTERNET.
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:29:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


Thanks for doing your job?

Zhang Ramses
Chaos From Order
Manifest Destiny.
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:29:00 - [93]
 


Give us the dirty dirty details, CCP.

Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:29:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


That's because it appears CCP royally ****ed up and allowed it too happen for 4 years. This could very well have reshaped 0.0.

The only way we'll know is if we demand a transparent and fully published investigation. Tell your CSM!

Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari
International Multi-Player Consortium
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:30:00 - [95]
 

quick! someone fly to delve and start screen shotting and petitioning all the [Bob] towers that [will continue to] remain in the same state.

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:32:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


That's because it appears CCP royally ****ed up and allowed it too happen for 4 years. This could very well have reshaped 0.0.

The only way we'll know is if we demand a transparent and fully published investigation. Tell your CSM!



They could have continued to allow it to happen. You are implying that they knew about it for 4 years - I haven't yet seen evidence that this is the case. If it were the case that they'd knowingly 'allowed' this bug to persist I would clearly be expressing a different opinion.

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:34:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Underpaid Overworked
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


Whats to thank? It should have been fixed ages ago, and now that the whistle is blown they are pulling another T20.


Yes it should have been fixed ages ago, you are right. My query is whether they knew about it all along. I will be as disgruntled as yourself if there is evidence is put forward that CCP didn't act earlier if it could have.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:35:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I haven't yet seen evidence that this is the case. If it were the case that they'd knowingly 'allowed' this bug to persist I would clearly be expressing a different opinion.


The only people who could provide that evidence would be CCP.

The whole system is starting to require a level of trust many are no longer willing to give.

XxHey BabyxX
Gallente
THE INTERNET.
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:36:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


That's because it appears CCP royally ****ed up and allowed it too happen for 4 years. This could very well have reshaped 0.0.

The only way we'll know is if we demand a transparent and fully published investigation. Tell your CSM!



They could have continued to allow it to happen. You are implying that they knew about it for 4 years - I haven't yet seen evidence that this is the case. If it were the case that they'd knowingly 'allowed' this bug to persist I would clearly be expressing a different opinion.


Maybe because someone talked or found out, just remember the t20 stuff,

Lockheed19
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:36:00 - [100]
 

Poor form. The very poorest of form. Evil or Very Mad

Clone 1
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:37:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
they'd knowingly 'allowed' this bug to persist


You better pick a side of the fence to stand on, as they have set preciedent with ghost training, a 'bug' they left in for years and only recently 'fixed' it.

It's up to Internal Affairs now to put the public mind at rest, but it looks like some one pulled a 'Blagojevich' .


Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:42:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


I'll be sure to thank them once heads have rolled, possessions have been impounded and disposed of, names named, corporations and alliances disbanded and moon mining been made dynamic to encourage legit mining to keep supply stable through normal gameplay.

So far nothing is fixed, it's just out of the bag.

Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:43:00 - [103]
 

Hey remember the years worth of ferrogel found in corp hangars of stations BOB lost in period basis during the Tortuga fiasco?

Not such a great mystery anymore Laughing

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:44:00 - [104]
 

How are you going to ban and "seize assets gained" from an exploit that has been going on for 4 years?

This is seriously broken. Frankly this smells as bad as t20.


Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:44:00 - [105]
 

Any hope of bailing out failing T2 producers because of the new higher build costs?

Amber Coldheart
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:46:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo

Yes it should have been fixed ages ago, you are right. My query is whether they knew about it all along. I will be as disgruntled as yourself if there is evidence is put forward that CCP didn't act earlier if it could have.

Well, if

1. This has been going on at the length of time, and in anywhere near the scope that is being claimed.

2. with EVE having an "economics expert" working to keep an eye on the EVE economy, market fluctuations, big screens full of graphs, diagrams and pretty colors..

3. The above mentioned "expert" failed to notice that more went out than was actually coming in (or in simple terms, stuff was created out of nothing), over a period of a claimed 4 years.

Then you have 3 choices.

1. They did know, yet did nothing about it (as is being claimed).
2. They didnt know, and they were too incompetent to notice.
3. The whole thing is blown vastly out of proportion.

Pick your choice :)

Xthril Ranger
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:46:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.
it is not like they have said they have fixed the exploit, just that they have removed some starbases and banned some people.

Re Seller
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:47:00 - [108]
 

Removed. Please refrain from trolling. Navigator

Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:48:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 10/12/2008 22:55:59
Quote:
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


I thank them for it, and thank them for removing assets which would've been gained from this exploits. Assets gained by my business to material reactors/miners. My well earnt ISK (and ISK subsequently of my customers) sunk by CCP because it went into the hands of an exploiter instead of someone legit.

I know there's nothing CCP can do about that, but it leaves me feeling quite hollow about EVE at the moment, the fact that I was the business that earnt a bunch of exploiters a lot of ISK (144 billion ISK in fact)

Serendipitously
Malleus-Maleficarum
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:49:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: zenthral staichon
I heard MM, RZR, TCF, GS, TRI, PL, BoB, Evoke, MH, SOT, AAA, RA, ROL, IRON, UNL will have their whole leadership banned, c/d?

Furthermore,


ATLAS are finally going to be the new powerbloc, I called it.

No seriously, I doubt this could be kept secret so long alliance level. Maybe a handfull of peeps in small dedicated corp could pull it off, but not on a larger scale.

Then again, the lows people are willing to go to in this game in order to gain an advance keeps surprising me, and I guess it is what makes this game so addictive

Also, thanks for keeping TechII prices low...

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:51:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: royal killer
Everyone got greedy, and when they found out about this exploit, nobody said anythingLaughing

But, 4 whole years....that's like 1460 days and nobody said anything! absurd. (didn't know about this btw.)


Sorry to burst your bubble.

But did you have a look at dys prices BEFORE invention?

Actually there were even free dys moons because it was just not worth to harvest those moons. There were only so few t2 items built compared to the time when invention became possible that the demand for those moon production were just very low.

Invention changed the demand for these things drastically. So you only can really count from this point of time. Before invention those whole moon products were more or less unsellable and worthless.

Chienka
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:52:00 - [112]
 

Question is, who's gonna get B&?

Also, how did ********** not know?

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:54:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Amber Coldheart
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo

Yes it should have been fixed ages ago, you are right. My query is whether they knew about it all along. I will be as disgruntled as yourself if there is evidence is put forward that CCP didn't act earlier if it could have.

Well, if

1. This has been going on at the length of time, and in anywhere near the scope that is being claimed.

2. with EVE having an "economics expert" working to keep an eye on the EVE economy, market fluctuations, big screens full of graphs, diagrams and pretty colors..

3. The above mentioned "expert" failed to notice that more went out than was actually coming in (or in simple terms, stuff was created out of nothing), over a period of a claimed 4 years.

Then you have 3 choices.

1. They did know, yet did nothing about it (as is being claimed).
2. They didnt know, and they were too incompetent to notice.
3. The whole thing is blown vastly out of proportion.

Pick your choice :)



It's a good point you've got there, much to think about. However, I feel I can't take a concrete position when I do not know the facts, so I'm supporting the issue in the assembly hall for a detailed disclosure about what happened and what is being done.

Monstar
Caldari
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:56:00 - [114]
 

I think it is quite a big exploit but I have the distinctive feeling that the matter gets blown out of proportion by some group which is crossposting all over alliance- and corporation forums about this in a very big and organized way (eve-o.de, xtraders for example).

Besides I haven't ever heared about this before and noone else in the greater north either, no important northern person was banned till now and also I don't see 450 motherships floating in jita and no 100 titans either... so it all sums up "too much smoke for too little firewood".

So my two cents: a small number of players exploited and either theyselves or their enemies are making a big fuzz about it now.

Bobbechk
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:57:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


sorry but... im not gonna thank anyone for a bad work

well sure someone did a good job finally finding this bug, but it took about 3,9999 years to long....

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2008.12.10 23:00:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Monstar
I think it is quite a big exploit but I have the distinctive feeling that the matter gets blown out of proportion by some group which is crossposting all over alliance- and corporation forums about this in a very big and organized way (eve-o.de, xtraders for example).

Besides I haven't ever heared about this before and noone else in the greater north either, no important northern person was banned till now and also I don't see 450 motherships floating in jita and no 100 titans either... so it all sums up "too much smoke for too little firewood".

So my two cents: a small number of players exploited and either theyselves or their enemies are making a big fuzz about it now.



Chances are at least most if not ALL big alliances in the game are involved in this. So, no, it is not a political manipulation. Just supreme incompetence from CCP. They have already shown time and again that they have no clue neither interest of having such a clue about what happens inside their own company.

Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2008.12.10 23:02:00 - [117]
 

So, what IS the actual scale of this? Until you provide us with some nibble, the SHC guy's word is perception, and perception is reality.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2008.12.10 23:02:00 - [118]
 

Inbound threadnaught detected Shocked

Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente
The Industrial Consortium
Posted - 2008.12.10 23:03:00 - [119]
 

All this knee-jerk anti-Bob hysteria is really very amusing. The original post in another place clearly aimed to stoke such hysteria, but the poster did not mention names. This leads me to suspect that either those corporations are relative non-entities, despite what the poster claims, and that this is an entire (and successful) attempt to stoke up anti-BoB hysteria - and if that is the case I would further presume the poster probably came from an anti-BoB group and is attempting a certain amount of protective cover for his alliance; or alternatively that the corporations alluded to in fact exist in differing, probably opposing alliances, in which case it is clear all sides are guilty.

This presumes the original accuser is mostly telling the truth. Given the anonymous nature of the accsuation and limited information, I am not at all certain he is, either about the amount of money made or the length of time.

Either way I am glad CCP has taken steps against this. I would hope for some more information at some point - but it is entirely possible that at this current moment in time CCP is unable to provide more information to us as it is still completing its own information gathering operations and investigations. I would prefer more complete information, than off the cuff information which might, on further examination, prove to be mistaken.

The T2 market will survive. Yes there will be ramifications in that market, but really I see this as being no different from a massive fraud in real life that suddently distorts real-life markets. Indeed, I think this could make an interesting economic case study if one was that way inclined.

We live in interesting times. It is a blessing, not a curse.

Crackuji
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.10 23:03:00 - [120]
 

Quote:
I've just spoken to a corpmate, who seems to recall bugreporting something like this. This would have been about 2-3 years ago. Newbs messing around with a POS, offlined some stuff to mess with it, and didn't put it back properly overnight, and found silos with stuff in the next day. Corrected the error, bugreported it, moved on.

From SHC. That's potentially 2 people who alerted CCP to this ugh


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