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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:02:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: MyOwnSling
Any word as to the economic impact?


Well if what is said is true then most who have ever bought T2 equipment have benefited by slightly decreased costs maybe?


Slade

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:02:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We have discovered an exploit involving starbases that made it possible for some players to gain an unfair advantage over others. We have taken measures to address this by removing the starbases used in the exploit. Additionally, assets gained from its use have been seized and bans levied against the players involved. We will continue to monitor the game for issues such as this one. We encourage players to create a petition if become aware of any activities which may permit others to gain an unfair advantage in the game.

Update by Customer Support:

On December 7th 2008, a date which will live in infamy, a petition from a concerned player alerted us to a serious problem with Starbase reactors. The petition had been filed five days earlier, a far longer waiting time than we can accept with our current queue status and we have now taken measures to fix that. We immediately started investigating the issue and found that there was indeed a problem and that it was being exploited to gain unfair advantages.

We discovered seven corporations with multiple Starbases set up for the express purpose of exploiting the issue. Three of those corporations were members of two alliances. We took immediate action against the offenders and banned over 70 accounts and destroyed all the Starbases run by the corporations in question. All the offending corporations are now effectively inactive as a result of our actions.

The corporations were producing high end materials for T2 production. Working with the Research & Statistics team we have established that the effects on the markets have been considerable and far reaching. The effects of our actions against the exploiters will also be felt on the market as the production of the materials has been cut substantially. However, supply should increase again once players have mastered the alchemy process.

We are still conducting operations to deal with this matter and we will keep you posted on the progress and results as things develop.

Update: This matter will be brought up at a CSM and CCP meeting this upcoming weekend.


I just want to say thank you for posting this.

You could have just not said anything.

The right thing and the easy thing to do are rarely the same.

Moostang
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:05:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Phoenus
Edited by: Phoenus on 10/12/2008 21:33:01
It'd be interesting to know the extent to which this was being used.


You tell us....

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:05:00 - [64]
 

Will the repoman come for all their capital fleets of ill-gotten ships?

Then the velator inconvenience op might not just be a comedy option anymore.

Rikeka
Eye of God
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:05:00 - [65]
 

Want to fix this, CCP? Remove the moon minerals from game, till you can come up with a new T2 recipe.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:06:00 - [66]
 

The logs... they do nothing.

How did CCP's much lauded resident economist not spot this?
Didn't a single soul with access to this data notice?
Surely with how essential monitoring and reviewing such data would be to game balance we're talking about a lot of opportunities to notice such an exploit.

Also how many times has this exploit been petitioned over the last four years?

I'm highly disappointed, but I'm hoping CCP can manage to be honest about this so that the game can move on. Without knowledge of the level of impact this has had we're all in the dark left to ponder the worst.

zenthral staichon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:08:00 - [67]
 

I heard MM, RZR, TCF, GS, TRI, PL, BoB, Evoke, MH, SOT, AAA, RA, ROL, IRON, UNL will have their whole leadership banned, c/d?

Furthermore,

Evie May
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:08:00 - [68]
 

ok... soooo.... ive read all the replies but i still cant figure out what the exploit was in the firstplace.

I'm just curious is all =/

Underpaid Overworked
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:09:00 - [69]
 


Page 3 = Yet another request for a real statement by CCP that identifies the extent of damages done, the extent of players/corps/alliances involved in the exploit, how long CCP has know about this and done nothing, how may titans are being removed, etc.

Your statement is nothing short of a canned response and addresses nothing...

mamolian
Cruoris Seraphim
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:10:00 - [70]
 

Rather depressing tbh.. Neutral

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:10:00 - [71]
 

Hooray for banning exploiters. A bit confused at some of the emo-raging posters, do you think CCP has a button that instantly shows how long an exploit has been going on and how many people have been involved, in what alliances and exactly how much isk was exploited? I mean varying market conditions and alts that put up POS alone must be a nightmare to keep track of.

The exploiter on SHC claims a lot, but do you really believe him? After he got his accounts banned, I expect him to try to dis-credit CCP. The exploit is real, but how long it has been going on and how much isk he exploited, and how much isk got banned we will never really know as you can always claim CCP or the exploiter is lying so who really gives a **** about the exact figures.

I expect there to be the usual speculators and then T2 prices maybe taking a small rise in prices, but some of you guys are freaking out over an exploit that may have been widespread or may have been just used by two guys.

Relentless Phantsm
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:10:00 - [72]
 

CCP for governor of Illinois.

Avalira
Caldari
The Black Light Foundation
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:10:00 - [73]
 

Where's the CSM? This sounds like a job for them.

Cmndr Griff
Viziam
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:11:00 - [74]
 

Interesting times ahead if the T2 market was based on this exploit as much as people suggest. Guess I should get to Jita and cash in...

Amber Coldheart
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:11:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Evie May
ok... soooo.... ive read all the replies but i still cant figure out what the exploit was in the firstplace.

I'm just curious is all =/

Had to do with moonmining, basically harvesting minerals even though half the PoS was offline or somesuch (and without using any materials to boot, so it was all free).

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:11:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Avalira
Where's the CSM? This sounds like a job for them.

Heh. That was almost funny.

Malachon Draco
eXceeded
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:12:00 - [77]
 

Devs, might I suggest that you use this exploit as an excuse to remove all titans from the game, just claim that they were all funded by this illegal activity. Oh, and remove the BPOs too, also funded by that. Its the best excuse you'll ever get to fix your own biggest ****up without admitting it Wink

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:13:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Cmndr Griff
Interesting times ahead if the T2 market was based on this exploit as much as people suggest. Guess I should get to Jita and cash in...


You're too late.

Cardinal Harvest
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:13:00 - [79]
 

lol

Dickens Cider
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:13:00 - [80]
 

Wait a minute!

This can't be true because we all know it was invention that drove T2 prices down!

Deggins
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:15:00 - [81]
 

It has been said that the exploit involved, under certain circumstances, reactions at POSs running to completion (filling silos) without actually consuming any material inputs.

hUssmann
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:17:00 - [82]
 

Bang up job guys, nice to know you're on the ball.

After numerous petitions by myself and hundreds upon hundreds of players petitioning obvious exploits and descrepencies to get them looked at and it being shrugged off by the GM team may I suggest internal affairs take a look at what they're actually doing when my petition is being processed and sitting in the cue decaying over weeks and months?

Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:17:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 10/12/2008 22:17:50
Originally by: Avalira
Where's the CSM? This sounds like a job for them.


Agreed.

Hence I posted this thread.

Amy Wang
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:18:00 - [84]
 

What a huge conspiracy this must have been if several people in several big alliances did this for four (!) years, it is hard to believe nobody noticed and petitioned it.

Well, at least this time apparently people actually get the ban stick as opposed to the high end complex boss spawn exploits that fueled certain people's wallets over years as well and nobody suffered any consequences for it.

Or are the bans just some pawn sacrifice and the real beneficiaries go scot free again?

Spindeln
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:18:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: royal killer
Originally by: Mioelnir
The question I'd personally like to see adressed, is how much materials were created in relation to what the seeded (and mineable) moons in EVE can produce.

Is perhaps the whole t2 economy for some time (maybe years?) now running on exploited supplies? Is perheps the R64 bottleneck even worse than we always thought?


This has been going on for 4 whole years, We're talking 5 if not 6 digit number of amounts of tech 2 ships produced out of this, since for example 4 major t2 producing corps ingame just went bankrupt (I heard).


They never said it was 4 years, yet you seem so sure. Have you been aware of this for 4 years? Have you exploited it? Or did you read 4 years on the internet and therefore it must be the truth... Very Happy

Underpaid Overworked
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:19:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Underpaid Overworked on 10/12/2008 22:19:57


Originally by: Vaal Erit
Hooray for banning exploiters. A bit confused at some of the emo-raging posters, do you think CCP has a button that instantly shows how long an exploit has been going on and how many people have been involved, in what alliances and exactly how much isk was exploited? I mean varying market conditions and alts that put up POS alone must be a nightmare to keep track of.

The exploiter on SHC claims a lot, but do you really believe him? After he got his accounts banned, I expect him to try to dis-credit CCP. The exploit is real, but how long it has been going on and how much isk he exploited, and how much isk got banned we will never really know as you can always claim CCP or the exploiter is lying so who really gives a **** about the exact figures.

I expect there to be the usual speculators and then T2 prices maybe taking a small rise in prices, but some of you guys are freaking out over an exploit that may have been widespread or may have been just used by two guys.


Yes, I do not think it should be an extraordinary act for CCP to know the extent of the exploit considering it may have been going on 4 years, considering it is there game that they designed and monitor.

Here we have the "expert" economist sporting charts and graphs on sales trends, yet a red flag never went up that more is being put out then could possibly be going in?

Simply saying, "yeah we banned a few players for unfair advantage" is not enough. Why wasn't a proper response with the actual impact on EvE thought out in advance prior to the mass bannings? Did CCP really hope/think no one would be the wiser?

Clone 1
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:21:00 - [87]
 

I always wondered how a certain alliance could keep loosing jump freighters as if they were frigates... now I know.

This has had a profound effect on the game, and you have had experience of how to deal with this type of news, deal with it the CORRECT way, look at the way CCP handled past issues and do not make the same mistake. If there was any time to SET UP, this is it. This is BIG, EPIC BIG.

For those of you who dont think its that big of a deal, I just ask you to sit back and watch this space.
This is gona be one hell of a ride.

I leave you with these words... 'I have a bad feeling about this'




Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari
International Multi-Player Consortium
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:21:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Lochmar Fiendhiem on 10/12/2008 22:28:42
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
4 years aye. Time for a rapid response unit maybe?

How come this wasn't spotted earlier, for example by your much-vaunted economist? Surely gigantic piles of T2 reactions without corresponding amounts mined (or even mineable given the lack of Dyspro moons) should have given some sort of an indication something was wrong?




My bets on this guy has a BoB character somewhere along the line.

Lets see who no longer logs on in the coming weeks.

EDIT: Anyone who has petitioned this in the past i suggest you repetiton this and dig up those past petition log numbers to present as well. Someone at CCP messed up big time and this time they should not get a "slap on the wrist" for something that runs this deep.

Hail Xenu
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:25:00 - [89]
 

hmmm this is interesting, the starbase setup described can be found all over delve in BOBs sov4 capital systems....

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.12.10 22:27:00 - [90]
 

I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


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