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Mookuh
COLD-Wing
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:53:00 - [511]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
That's a large amount of money for corp having a moon for an extended period of time. Can you imagine what it mean for Evolution or Reikoku? Dozens of billions, possibly hundreds.

So, here's the big question: Will CCP make at least a partial compensation?


Ahaha...ahahahah...wahahahaha... thank you sir, you just made my day!
Sure, let's compensate the most powerful alliances in the game, who've got a shady history with unfair advantages. They most certainly did not benefit from this in any way, shape or form... ahahahahahaRazz

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:58:00 - [512]
 

I demand a shiny new Snowball Launcher and a Snowball BPO as restitution...

3rr0rc0d3
Amarr
The Wyld Hunt
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:59:00 - [513]
 

Edited by: 3rr0rc0d3 on 11/12/2008 11:00:02
Good time to come up with another snowball launcher tbh.
At least give us some toy to play with to keep our attention elsewhere, CCP Very Happy

/edit: I like your thinking, Clansworth! Laughing

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:00:00 - [514]
 

Originally by: hundurinn

Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more.


That is true. But they best investigate it completely first.

Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on.

Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters.

As some people already said, this might not that easy as it seems to be. There will most probably lots of alts involved and a good deal of money laundring. Of course no one wants that they ban innocents also! At least I would be more than ****ed off if they would ban my char only because my buy order in jita got filled from one of these guys.

So it needs time to give accurate details.


In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself:
The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers.

These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then.

Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really.

More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post.

Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of.

Xordan
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:00:00 - [515]
 

Originally by: Clansworth
I demand a shiny new Snowball Launcher and a Snowball BPO as restitution...


/signed

And 4 years game time and a few titans plz.

hundurinn
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:07:00 - [516]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: hundurinn

Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more.


That is true. But they best investigate it completely first.

Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on.

Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters.

As some people already said, this might not that easy as it seems to be. There will most probably lots of alts involved and a good deal of money laundring. Of course no one wants that they ban innocents also! At least I would be more than ****ed off if they would ban my char only because my buy order in jita got filled from one of these guys.

So it needs time to give accurate details.


In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself:
The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers.

These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then.

Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really.

More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post.

Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of.


I agree with you.
However, you can't blame people for jumping to conclusions and believe some banned players over CCP. How CCP handled the T20 fiasco was just a mess and still today people question everything CCP do and say.

Karanth
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:12:00 - [517]
 

Need answers here. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE


Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:14:00 - [518]
 



You muppets.....Rolling Eyes

I never happened
Very Happy

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:15:00 - [519]
 

I don't mind if there has been an exploit or bug. Hasn't affected my game experience much i would say. But what really bothers me is CCP. Again! How can it be possible to have an exploit with such an immense impact like this over 4 years ??? Not only that such dimensions should be obvious on logs, it has also been reported!

And again, CCP announces a nice CCP from CCP for christmas. Not a single word on the POS exploit, allthough this patch includes a fix for it. We'r beeing sold a present, which is actually a fix for a 4 year long major exploit. Thats nice, isn't it? Reminds me on the ghost training feature ... erm sorry, bug. If CCP wouldn't have banned these accounts, those guys would never have gone public on, of course, 3rd party forums, CCP would never have made an official announcement and we would never have been told.

As far as i'm concerned, this firm lost all reputation. I don't mind failures, bugs, exploits, lag or whatever. We all know that they can happen and nobody is perfect. But i appreciate fair play, and i can't overlook repeating failures in that.

Over and out

Mr FourEyes
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:16:00 - [520]
 

Originally by: hundurinn
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: hundurinn

Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more.


That is true. But they best investigate it completely first.

Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on.

Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters.

As some people already said, this might not that easy as it seems to be. There will most probably lots of alts involved and a good deal of money laundring. Of course no one wants that they ban innocents also! At least I would be more than ****ed off if they would ban my char only because my buy order in jita got filled from one of these guys.

So it needs time to give accurate details.


In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself:
The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers.

These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then.

Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really.

More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post.

Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of.


I agree with you.
However, you can't blame people for jumping to conclusions and believe some banned players over CCP. How CCP handled the T20 fiasco was just a mess and still today people question everything CCP do and say.


And once again CCP is handling it baddly, there not saying how long it went on how much is involved, there beeing super vague. Becuase there to embarrased to release the details.

Major Buttache
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:16:00 - [521]
 

I donít know if anyone has touched on this yet or not, but iirc that at least two prominent game magazine journalists play EvE.

If there is even an ounce of truth to the rumour that this admitted bug was so widespread for so long, well the ramifications will be enormous and no doubt picked up by even national media.

I know the BBC did an article on EvE economy, anyone know that journoís name?

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:17:00 - [522]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 11/12/2008 11:19:29
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Tell me, how can a limited resource increase in volume and decrease in price, even as demand for T2 stuff keeps increasing?

Many of the dys moons were monopolized. If the monopoly breaks up all these moons become available again and the supply is increased. Also it depends on how much those moons are utilized, if they can harvest constantly or if there is lots of fighting and so on.

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

Weeks? We have pretty solid indications that it's been going on at least for a year.

Then show us these indications! Just babbling without any facts is completely worthless.

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Also, there was a thread in december last year complaining about how ferrogel was being sold for under manufacturing costs...


That thread was complete nonsense, sorry to say. It was nothing more than a whine that the op there couldn't earn as much money as before.

It was until recently perfectly possible to earn a good bag of isk from ferrogel reaction. Setup buy orders cheap for the materials in Jita, sell the product for good price.

No cheating involved. Of course if you direct buy the expensive dys and the peak of the market speculation and if you sell to low buy orders then your profit margings are indeed small. But so what?

Actually I remember that post because I replied in there with exactly the same argument there at that time. It was never unprofitable to produce ferrogel until recently.

Price of Dys. 64.000
Price of Prom. 18.000

Price to build ferrogel from materials bought in Jita including pos fuel costs: 16.500
Price to build fermionic condensats: 26.500
Price to build hypersynaptic fibers: 5.400

Now look at the numbers and prices in Jita and you will see that dys was much cheaper in between. The non-profit of ferrogel production is nothing than a myth to keep people off from trying it and thus decreasing the profits for the established people.



Unless I see good proof which is backed up by numbers I have no reason that this exploit is going on in a big scale for more than a few weeks! Maybe it was going on in a small scale, but who cares about small scale.

The big cheat didn't last longer than some weeks. Only since then you saw big loads of stuff dumped very cheap onto the market and the price crashed. Check yourself the price history in Jita. Very easy to see.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:18:00 - [523]
 

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Taking bets on which Dev it is finally answers the gathering lynch mob...


2/1 CCP Zulupark (We all love him at the moment don't we?)
3/1 CCP Wrangler (Expert in saying lots but answering nothing)
5/1 CCP Oveur (Times of trouble, out come the big guns...)
10/1 CCP Eris (Would probably turn the mob pink)
12/1 CCP Eyjo (Will blind us with stats that make it seem as if its 2004 again)
100/1 No Answer (....ever)

Send your iskies to me for more fixed odds - Cheers. :)


Quote me odds for 1M ISK on CCP Fallout (make the new guy take the heat again)

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:18:00 - [524]
 

This is the sort of stuff why the EvE population growth is seemingly stagnating.

Huan CK
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:19:00 - [525]
 

You know, I kinda like the fact that this all blew up :D

I'm not as rich as many others, but I have quite some wealth, and with this story released, I feel even richer, because I for my part know that my money was earned in honest endevours :D

Well, I don't know if or how long CCP knew about it, or why and how this story came up now rather than way sooner. To me it's just important that they clean up the mess, get rid of the responsible parties, and make sure that this exploit isn't exploitable any longer.

Von Hinten
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:23:00 - [526]
 

Edited by: Von Hinten on 11/12/2008 11:23:11
Here you go:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3650/reactiongf1.jpg

found in german eve-online.de

edit, damn someone was faster

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:24:00 - [527]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie

That is true. But they best investigate it completely first. Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on. Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters.


So it needs time to give accurate details.

In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself:
The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers.

These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then.

Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really.

More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post.

Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of.


Because everyone KNOWS SHC is SOOOO much more accurate than anything published anywhere else! Laughing

I agree with the above, give it time. Thrashing them here will do no good whatsoever...

AKTwisted Evil

Triff
Malevolent Evolution
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:24:00 - [528]
 

Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez
Over and out


come on, you just contradicted yourself.

Veroid
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:26:00 - [529]
 

TQ reset !

Darth Sithus
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:27:00 - [530]
 

I'm actualy surprised by all those CCP replies, great job!

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:29:00 - [531]
 

Originally by: Veroid
TQ reset !



dont talk stupidity

Tobias Lee
Star Mercs
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:29:00 - [532]
 

The main reason and the only reason I believe that CCP simply ignored this is plain and simple money. Pvping needs isk, players that did not know about this exploit, some of them will have paid real money to sell gtc or to pay for 4 or 5 alt accounts to mine like crazy to get pvp ships to fight whilst the exploiters, the big players who are probably all run by ccp alts anyway had free isk so they had more ships to fight and thus cause our poor guy running 4 or 5 accounts or buying gtc for real money to lose more ships and thus have to either buy more gtc or do more mining to fund his/her pvp addiction.

Just like real life its all about the money, nothing more nothing less.

At this moment in time ccp is in a unique position being the only space mmporg game on the market, however I do know that Jumpgate is released soon, Star trek online out next year and also rumours of a Warhammer 40k online.

CCP need to get their **** together and fast, fix those bugs asap or drastically add new content to EVE to push it above those other games and even then its still going to have the stigma of EVE online a game of wealth and power where players will sell even their own mother for isk and even the game developers cheat to deal with.

:(

Mr John22ta
Supercarrier Aggression
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:31:00 - [533]
 

Originally by: Darth Sithus
I'm actualy surprised by all those CCP replies, great job!



CCP needs to be very careful with what they say about this. The forums are (rightfully IMHO) up in arms, and anything that CCP says or does, will be scrutinized, quoted, taken as gospel ect. If that info turns out to be wrong, the damage could be amplified.

Give them time to find out what has happened, take action, and THEN tell us.

There is no point in them replying to us right now, will do more damage than good

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:33:00 - [534]
 

Of course, it could be that all the alliances shared this information, or all kept it to themselves, so that they could still have regular pew pew. This is so wide reaching it's going to affect PvP significantly, and the entire map is going to change. I can see the smaller alliances that maybe didn't know about this moving up the food chain a bit. Hell, of course no-one could have kept this quiet so long, but the large alliances have alot of players combined - it would have been easy to keep it quiet amongst them.

Darth Sithus
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:33:00 - [535]
 

Originally by: Mr John22ta
Originally by: Darth Sithus
I'm actualy surprised by all those CCP replies, great job!



CCP needs to be very careful with what they say about this. The forums are (rightfully IMHO) up in arms, and anything that CCP says or does, will be scrutinized, quoted, taken as gospel ect. If that info turns out to be wrong, the damage could be amplified.

Give them time to find out what has happened, take action, and THEN tell us.

There is no point in them replying to us right now, will do more damage than good


Right, they need more than 4 years Razz

Bobbechk
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:34:00 - [536]
 

Originally by: Veroid
TQ reset !


would be awsome fun :D:D:D

(no really i mean it it would be awsome fun!)

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:35:00 - [537]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: hundurinn

Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more.


That is true. But they best investigate it completely first.

Otherwise they have to come up every few days with new facts maybe contradicting their old findings and so on.

Give them a little more time, I suppose they were themselves quite suprised and now need to root out the cheaters.

As some people already said, this might not that easy as it seems to be. There will most probably lots of alts involved and a good deal of money laundring. Of course no one wants that they ban innocents also! At least I would be more than ****ed off if they would ban my char only because my buy order in jita got filled from one of these guys.

So it needs time to give accurate details.


In the meanwhile I can only repeat myself:
The numbers in Jita indicate that this cheating is going on in a big matter since only a few weeks. Before that the prices of ferrogel etc. were tightly coupled (or correlated as people say) to the dys/prom prices. But since a few weeks the prices were decoupled and ferrogel dropped and dropped, together with hypersynaptic fibers.

These "4 years" are utter nonsense. 4 years ago there was no real market for ferrogel and the likes, only few people did do that. No much money was in it then.

Also: one char got permabanned and all his shiny isk wiped out. Then he posts anonomously on a 3rd party forum and throws in numbers which are not believable as explained above. Yet everyone believes that guy and yells at CCP. Shame on the playerbase, really.

More civil manners wouldn't hurt to have. Also think a bit more about the circumstances and if that what people claim to have happend could be true and do match the numbers and realities on TQ. Only then post.

Wild accusations without any base than rumours from banned cheaters are not really something which anyone can be proud of.



except that there's not a lot of trust going around to a company that doesn't have a stellar reputation to begin with.

and wasn't it a "banned cheater" that exposed something about wrongly spawned t2 bpos, titan account sharing, and a number of other items? yet, that 'banned cheater' turned out to be in the right...


Blackmarketbaby
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:37:00 - [538]
 

the only comfort i find is knowing that the exact same people who were on a godlike level are going down the dumpster. little ****s needing to cheat to stay ahead - and not even succeeding at that.

Kay Han
Caldari
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:38:00 - [539]
 

Edited by: Kay Han on 11/12/2008 11:42:53
Edited by: Kay Han on 11/12/2008 11:38:57
if this thing was reported FOUR ****ing years ago all i can say is:

CCP has a reaction like a Skysc* r* a* p* e*r..... NONE



Kudos to u dudes
/me salutes


edit:stupid wordfilter

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:39:00 - [540]
 

TQ reset would make the game pretty interesting, everything would be new again, no super cap fleets, no POS in every 0.0 system, no jump bridges, no titans, no jump freighters. Lots of t1 ships. Fair play for all.

What's not to like? Smile


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