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FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:45:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 11/12/2008 09:24:16
Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
*Snip*


benefited? i think everyone but those directly obtaining the isk were victimized. it diminishes the game for everyone pure and simple.


Come on think outside of your "world is against me" box, that isk they got they obviously used to buy stuff on the market too, which means normal(non-exploity people) BENEFITED, that isk in turn was used to purchase something else, said seller BENEFITED and so on and so on...remember isk is only useful...for BUYING stuff, having it in your wallet is pretty boring and not very useful.

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
how do you know the exploit itself didn't play a large part in the formation (not from ground up, but as they are now), continued growth and preservation of the powerblocs we have today?

Erm...it did! lol what on earth do you think people use isk for?!?!?!? of course it benefited them but as my previous example showed isk goes round and round and round...

don't get me wrong, im not saying it was a good thing, but for people to do this for such a time scale was fair play on their part, and yes CCP messed up, what gripes me is people moaning its personally hurt them...it hasn't if that isk wasn't in the eve economy players would be alot poorer, and that my friend is pure and simple.

Look how dumb you are (c) goons
Every honest person in trade chain got something in exchange for something, exploiters got something for nothing. In essence exploiters stole from everyone else in eve.

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:51:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: Makeme A'Billion

Im not saying it was a good thing, but for people to do this for such a time scale was fair play on their part.


Die in a fire or grow a brain please. Seriously... People that think like you are whats wrong with the world.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:55:00 - [483]
 

Edited by: Shadowsword on 11/12/2008 09:55:31
We know about one exploit case with an estimated 2500-3000 bilions isk taken away from legitimate high-end moon owners.

We know two other entities abused the same mechanics.

AFAIK, there's something like 250 dysprosium moons. I think it's safe to say that at least 50% of the exploit was about dyspro-related products.

What does that mean for one dyspro moon?

(3 000 000 000 000*0.50) / ((365*4)*250) = 4 millions per day loss

That's a minimal estimate!
It could be five that that much.

That's a large amount of money for corp having a moon for an extended period of time. Can you imagine what it mean for Evolution or Reikoku? Dozens of billions, possibly hundreds.

So, here's the big question: Will CCP make at least a partial compensation?

Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:57:00 - [484]
 

Originally by: FlameGlow

Every honest person in trade chain got something in exchange for something, exploiters got something for nothing. In essence exploiters stole from everyone else in eve.


In all fairness, they did still have to buy the POS's which could get popped, set them up, empty them periodically and manage the logistic chains to keep them fueled and transport the goods to market. So they did still have to put non-trivial time into it.

Lets compare,
Legit Reactor Operator: (monthly)
Capital: 10B
Profit: 2B
Hours: 20

Exploiter
Capital: 2B
Profit: 8B
Hours: 5-10

So instead of making a 20% return monthly they made a 400% return and instead of making ~100m an hour they made ~1200M an hour. Oh and their barrier to entry and risks were vastly reduced.

Thus, they weren't really getting something for nothing; they were just making in excess of a billion an hour on a very small investment. Oh ya, and they ****ed up the entire economy and probably altered the balance of power in 0.0. Other than that, no bigy. Sad

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:58:00 - [485]
 

Edited by: davcin on 11/12/2008 09:58:36

Link to where a cheater explains what it was done:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21936

Miss Brunette
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:01:00 - [486]
 

This is just sick. As an industrialist this just adds to the cake of feeling at an utter disadvantage relying on invention and market mats.

This is making competiotion pretty useless with honest invention and market materials against cheaters AND their friends who say nothing when they buy adv.mats for 50% under marketprice, who also has aquired all the T2 bpos they need.

Time to bring invention on par with t2 bpo's, make alchemy a WHOLE lot better than 20:1 (I would suggest evening out the field completely, make em 1:1), and/or spawn more (preferably lowsec moons since these wouldnt be as tainted as 0.0 sov moons).

Oh, and name'n shame all these cheaters.

Secondary ISprimary
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:06:00 - [487]
 

my question is :
if a player send a petition about a bug like this and petition get closed(4 years ago) and no answer have been given can CCP ban this player account ?

Ima Near'Jita
Caldari
Echo.
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:06:00 - [488]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Edited by: Shadowsword on 11/12/2008 09:55:31
So, here's the big question: Will CCP make at least a partial compensation?


Or an even bigger question....what makes you think your alliance is innocent?

RedClaws
Amarr
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:12:00 - [489]
 

Originally by: Ima Near'Jita
Originally by: Shadowsword
Edited by: Shadowsword on 11/12/2008 09:55:31
So, here's the big question: Will CCP make at least a partial compensation?


Or an even bigger question....what makes you think your alliance is innocent?


Even so... what makes us think CCP will actually act against high-level players such as for example sir molle. Put aside the close relationships with CCP employees, CCP would just be putting themselves more on the path of the media frenzy.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:12:00 - [490]
 

Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
that my friend is pure and simple.


your trolling is terrible.

1/10

Macmuelli
Gallente
Meltd0wn
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:12:00 - [491]
 

Good to see its adressed. But what happend to all ppls/corps/ allys which had produce on a fair way in this time?


The effects on the market u can see right now.

I personal hope for a more detailled statement, with numbers , and effects within the 4 years.

What maked it happend that u adresses it now, and not 4 yaers ago since the bug report/ petition?
Was it a lie from the cheater to blame u CCP?

This is the bunch in the face.





N'irrti
Amarr
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:15:00 - [492]
 

wts: slightly used pitchforks and torches

Rock'n'Roll Lady
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:16:00 - [493]
 

Edited by: Rock''n''Roll Lady on 11/12/2008 10:20:08
The way the exploit is explained by the cheaters on SHC
"http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21936", only one thing comes into my mind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg_(media)

It is manually put there by someone in development team to get benefits from this.
And if you assume this as truth all other theories fall in place like why the petition about this was closed without any action four years ago?

Makeme A'Billion
Gallente
WOLIMAZO INC
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:23:00 - [494]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
that my friend is pure and simple.


your trolling is terrible.

1/10


great response Rolling Eyes I reply to your post and it's trolling, you reply and it's what?

try to remember there are other people in the world with an opinion and it's not always yours.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:25:00 - [495]
 

Originally by: Ima Near'Jita
Originally by: Shadowsword
Edited by: Shadowsword on 11/12/2008 09:55:31
So, here's the big question: Will CCP make at least a partial compensation?


Or an even bigger question....what makes you think your alliance is innocent?


Very unlikely. I was one of the CEOs for a while, I'm vice-CEO now, so I have some visibility on both corporate and alliance assets and wallet. Our money come from legitimate T2/tax/moon sources and renting scheme, and we're not very rich to begin with. IF something nefarious took place, it was kept strictly on a personnal level.

RA and Bob are probably clean, too. Else, why would have they put so much efforts in taking R64 moons? And that exploit espescially hurt R64 moon owners, so...

Mister Zero
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:25:00 - [496]
 

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7089/mailxm5.jpg

"This exploit has had a profound effect on our game world"

Gee, ya think?

This is nothing short of an utter disgrace, CCP.

Safe to say that the entire political landscape within the EVE Universe is entirely skewed based on what has been an on-going scam.

What's worse is, by their own admission, weren't even paying customers. THOSE OF US WHO ARE DEMAND JUSTICE, GAWDAMMIT!

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:26:00 - [497]
 

Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
that my friend is pure and simple.


your trolling is terrible.

1/10


great response Rolling Eyes I reply to your post and it's trolling, you reply and it's what?

try to remember there are other people in the world with an opinion and it's not always yours.


sorry, i based my comment on the assumption you weren't just stupid Laughing

if you really think that when someone exploits the game, its good for everybody because that person then uses that isk is just.... wow

Cheeba Don
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:26:00 - [498]
 

TBH, I would rather they keep the exploit and t2 items remain cheap.

Ive never had more than a bill in my wallet but you know what, I enjoy playing the game just fine. If some guys want to micromanage 200 exploit pos to make 1000bill, good for them.

I imagine this whole exploit is being blown waaay out of proportion. Lets be honest, free isk is something that would become common knowledge pretty damn fast in this game.

/me hands out chill pills and points to the big "Its a Game sign"

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:29:00 - [499]
 

I <3 scandal weeks.

The forums are so much moar interesting when people are ruthlessly spin doctoring each others points of view to get the advantage. Btw, is Prism X getting good data from this for that social experiment of his? Very Happy

Plague Black
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:30:00 - [500]
 

Dear CCP,

You should give us the following:

1) Names
2) Developer names and their resignations (if any took part in it since it looks like a 4 year deliberate cover-up)
3) A public appology (somewhere in the lines of "We suck hard, forgive us if you can or walk out if you can not").

Then and only then you might get some of respect back.

Fenren
Minmatar
Bure Astro Photography
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:34:00 - [501]
 

Originally by: Rock'n'Roll Lady
Edited by: Rock''n''Roll Lady on 11/12/2008 10:20:08
The way the exploit is explained by the cheaters on SHC
"http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21936", only one thing comes into my mind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg_(media)

It is manually put there by someone in development team to get benefits from this.
And if you assume this as truth all other theories fall in place like why the petition about this was closed without any action four years ago?


there is no proof at all that this has gone on for 4 years, that a petition was made or that all alliances have made k's of billions out of it.

the closest thing to a reasonable estimation of the timeframe was made by that guy who compared market history and thougt it had gone on for a few weeks.

a post from a random char on the forum (with or without a pic) can hardly be seen as evidence.

stop jumping to conclutions!

Typhena
Forcas armadas
Moon Warriors
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:34:00 - [502]
 

This is a shame.... again!

Quakers
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:35:00 - [503]
 

can we called this Pos-gate?
please let us call this Pos-gate!

Very Happy

Fenren
Minmatar
Bure Astro Photography
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:40:00 - [504]
 

Originally by: Plague Black
Dear CCP,

You should give us the following:

1) Names
2) Developer names and their resignations (if any took part in it since it looks like a 4 year deliberate cover-up)
3) A public appology (somewhere in the lines of "We suck hard, forgive us if you can or walk out if you can not").

Then and only then you might get some of respect back.



if iceland has anything near the same laws and regulations about how and why you can fire people as the rest of the nordic counties have, they cant fire them. (and it seems they do. remember t20? he still works there iirc)

and as others have said before, WAIT FOR SOME FACTS! we dont know anything about the scale of it.

Burn Mac
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:41:00 - [505]
 

Oh noes the POS-gate but ah i have always thought something was messed up with ppl being able to buy GTC:s like its nothing.

Gen Laviski
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:44:00 - [506]
 

you should get jove to come in and start blowing up alot of pos'es as a severe penalty for those allaince that gained from these exploits on top of removing all asset gained in that bug abuse or just simply wipe there sov out.

but nevertheless i do hope ccp respond to some of the posts and most importantly name and shame corps/alliances!

hundurinn
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:46:00 - [507]
 

Originally by: Fenren
Originally by: Rock'n'Roll Lady
Edited by: Rock''n''Roll Lady on 11/12/2008 10:20:08
The way the exploit is explained by the cheaters on SHC
"http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21936", only one thing comes into my mind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_egg_(media)

It is manually put there by someone in development team to get benefits from this.
And if you assume this as truth all other theories fall in place like why the petition about this was closed without any action four years ago?


there is no proof at all that this has gone on for 4 years, that a petition was made or that all alliances have made k's of billions out of it.

the closest thing to a reasonable estimation of the timeframe was made by that guy who compared market history and thougt it had gone on for a few weeks.

a post from a random char on the forum (with or without a pic) can hardly be seen as evidence.

stop jumping to conclutions!


Thats what I'm saying. CCP needs to confirm or deny the rumor that it has been going on for 4 years, the longer they wait the worse the effect will be. The only thing they have said so far is that there was an exploit but it has been fixed nothing more.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:49:00 - [508]
 

Originally by: Fenren
the closest thing to a reasonable estimation of the timeframe was made by that guy who compared market history and thougt it had gone on for a few weeks.

Weeks? We have pretty solid indications that it's been going on at least for a year.

First off, look at the price and volume of ferrogel in Jita. Tell me, how can a limited resource increase in volume and decrease in price, even as demand for T2 stuff keeps increasing?

Also, there was a thread in december last year complaining about how ferrogel was being sold for under manufacturing costs...

Makeme A'Billion
Gallente
WOLIMAZO INC
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:50:00 - [509]
 

Originally by: Makeme A'Billion

don't get me wrong, im not saying it was a good thing

I'm sorry one of my previous posts must have confused you, I said the above in one of my earlier posts, I have deleted some words and sentences which were around it so you are able to read it now...

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
if you really think that when someone exploits the game, its good for everybody because that person then uses that isk is just.... wow

I'm just trying to show everyone that the isk which was "exploited" was actually already out there going around and around, these people simply gathered alot of it, and well most likely went on buying stuff with it.

Some people forget you don't win eve if you have the biggest amount of isk in your wallet...

or what do you think they have done with that isk?

could be a case to bring up the whole using isk to purchase gametime issue...

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:52:00 - [510]
 

Taking bets on which Dev it is finally answers the gathering lynch mob...


2/1 CCP Zulupark (We all love him at the moment don't we?)
3/1 CCP Wrangler (Expert in saying lots but answering nothing)
5/1 CCP Oveur (Times of trouble, out come the big guns...)
10/1 CCP Eris (Would probably turn the mob pink)
12/1 CCP Eyjo (Will blind us with stats that make it seem as if its 2004 again)
100/1 No Answer (....ever)

Send your iskies to me for more fixed odds - Cheers. :)


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