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Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:24:00 - [451]
 

While i dont doubt certain people/corporations/alliances got rich by doing this, is there any reason to assume like many here do that it did have a significant impact on the economy, and that prices are going to skyrocket like some people want you to believe?


btw lol @ the one who thinks servers should be reset now.

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:25:00 - [452]
 

Guys, CCP will offer a detailed post about it. A CCP DEV confirmed in an entirely different thread that CCP would release a detailed statement regarding this today. Don't ask me to find it ... I'm too damn tired. Let's give them time to wake up, have some tea, and get a game-plan together.

***

I frankly don't give a damn if CCP loses subscribers for doing *the right thing*. They messed up and should bite the bullet. I think all null-sec Sovereignty should be completely reset. All capitals which were potentially funded by this exploit removed, and all POS's for the offending alliances deleted. Course', I am a hard-ass.

***

Be patient. Let's see what CCP does. I'm sure someone at CCP is getting yelled at today.

Rock'n'Roll Lady
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:25:00 - [453]
 

And i have been mining and grinding mission and ratting after getting my ship blown up to buy another one and all this while people were exploiting current system with full knowledge of CCP, i m pretty angry right now, CCP should backtrack and try to ban all who benefited from this and seize every item/isk that came through this. This is very depressing at same time and we want Full CCP response to this for **** sake here we are investing our RL time and/or money to subscribe and get items mined or isk grinding and people are exploiting it right under CCP nose. disgusting.. CCP

Solaris04
Gallente
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:27:00 - [454]
 

not a surprise, kia whit an alt corp on iitanmadan have around 50 pos reaction and evoke 25+Laughing

Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar
Noonday Sun Corp
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:32:00 - [455]
 

Anyone remember this thread from a year ago?

"Ferrofluid making a loss"

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=627156

It makes a bit more sense now.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:34:00 - [456]
 

If the 4 year claim is true then it's pretty damn bad advantage for some groups. No wonder there were T2 BPO syndicates arising over the time. It will take serious effort (and most likely considerable game mechaniks overhaul) to try to fix massive advantages offered by this exploit.

Complete POS overhaul and nuking of T2 BPO's would be good start, as while some BPO's are no doubt aquired in honest way majority of them are most likely involved in schemes with dirty exploit isk.

I'm however confident that CCP are doing their best at damage control now that the issue has been risen into focus.

rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:35:00 - [457]
 

Originally by: Bodhisattvas
Originally by: Baske
Edited by: Baske on 11/12/2008 08:00:24
Originally by: PROTOCOL
Quote:
This is just sick, how many alliances have been funded by this for 4 years while others have been working there asses off to to maintain there outposts


A post on the forums ran by the emotards of this game, by a banned player who is likely retaliating is the only indication of the length of this exploit. They had lot's of ferrogel in their hanger just doesnt cut it as proof. Why don't you wait to see what ccp has to say.

Do all you tin foil hatters think that they can provide an answer right away? This came to light in the middle of the damn night in iceland, you know that place where ccp work and live. This will take an investigation, ccp doesnt have a button they can push to spit out a list like you all want. Sit back, relax and I bet when the facts come out it is nowhere near the scope that this mob mentality has made it out to be. But keep screaming, you all look like fools.


You sound more guilty than anyone in this thread, trying to stop people from complaining about an issue which most likely has had 10 times more impact on the game than 9/11 had to real life.



Time out you muppet !! how could you even imagine the impact of 9/11 and even dare to disrespect the people that died in comparing it
to a bloody game economy. You and the rest of the emotards whinging about nothing need a reality check. **** really does
happen and if your virual empire is destroyed because of whatever get over it! play another game or something!!


I dunno your being too serious m8. I'm an American and his comment didn't hurt me at all. It wasn't offensive either.

I guess its because I see what he is trying to say, and I half assed agree.

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:39:00 - [458]
 

So ... as Chribba said ... Bin Laden is behind this whole moon scheme exploit thingy?

Bumbum George
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:46:00 - [459]
 

OH HELL NO!

Now whether all the outrageous claims are true or not, this "incident" shows once again what a drama potential Eve has Very Happy

As much as I enjoy all the forum hysteria, I'm afraid "an amusing time on the forums" will not be enough to attract some new players and justify 15 bucks a month. On the contrary the bad publicity might even scare of some of those scarce individuals.

Oh and if the claims should really be true (which we will never find out for sure): shame on me for still playing this game!

Von Hinten
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:52:00 - [460]
 

Edited by: Von Hinten on 11/12/2008 08:53:44
I want heads rolling.
Ilost proberbly billions of isk for doing real reactions that other ppl just exploitet.
Iam feeling so $$%&$34%$



OHH AND REMOVE ALL %$&/&%&%&%& T2 BPOS OF GAME THEY ARE ALL BOUGHT BY DIRTY EXPLOITER MONEY JUST A METHOD TO WASH YOUR DAMN EXPLOITER MONEX

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:52:00 - [461]
 

Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen
Anyone remember this thread from a year ago?

"Ferrofluid making a loss"

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=627156

It makes a bit more sense now.
That's actually pretty interesting. It is indirect evidence that the exploit was widely spread 1 year ago. I dunno about 4 years, was there even moon mining 4 years ago?

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.12.11 08:58:00 - [462]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen
Anyone remember this thread from a year ago?

"Ferrofluid making a loss"

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=627156

It makes a bit more sense now.
That's actually pretty interesting. It is indirect evidence that the exploit was widely spread 1 year ago. I dunno about 4 years, was there even moon mining 4 years ago?


t2 Ships and components were introduced in Castor, so yes they were around 4 years ago.

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:00:00 - [463]
 

Yes, moon mining was introduced 4 years ago, so the guy who made this public says this bug had been ingame and working since introduction of POS system at all.


Makes me a very sad panda if true. Had a hard time earning my little isk to be able to buy me my little ships and CCP doesn't survey the big economy flows? What does this Mr. Economy professor do all day long at your company? At least admit that he is only working at ccp for a day per month...

Elisa Day
Shade.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:03:00 - [464]
 

Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Lyvanna Kitaen
Anyone remember this thread from a year ago?

"Ferrofluid making a loss"

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=627156

It makes a bit more sense now.
That's actually pretty interesting. It is indirect evidence that the exploit was widely spread 1 year ago. I dunno about 4 years, was there even moon mining 4 years ago?


t2 Ships and components were introduced in Castor, so yes they were around 4 years ago.


Castor was released in December 2003, but T2 components were agent mission rewards then... Moon mining came with shiva/exodus, released in november 2004, pretty much exactly 4 years ago.

Col Callahan
Caldari
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:04:00 - [465]
 

Edited by: Col Callahan on 11/12/2008 09:15:03
I no longer have respect for CCP or there ability to take all things into account or fix what has been allowed to go on these past 4 years.

What has been done has been done and it has change the game in ways we will never fully know.

Because this is a free economy were ever the exploit "black holed" the market will recover and go up do to the lack of supply due to the removal of the "BUG".

I can't see a role back or any way to punish or take back what has been done to the game. As unfair as it feels, the ones who were doing it no long can or will be allowed to I think and the bug that has allowed them to stay alive this long will no longer allow them to be unbeatable because of unlimited amounts of isk flowing in from exploit land.

In short, its unfair, it sucks, but are you going to log in tomorrow or are you going to leave. Ether way, I look forward to what the market does over this.

Makeme A'Billion
Gallente
WOLIMAZO INC
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:17:00 - [466]
 

Isn't it funny that a big majority if not all of the people complaining here have one way or the other had or benefited from that "exploited" isk at any one time.

Also quite possibly at least half the people complaining have known/been associated with someone who was doing it.

Because come on, you cant all be so naive that you just think ONLY 3 "powerblocs" as the SHC post says knew about it.

Either way, it's being "fixed" now be good traders and benefit from it Twisted Evil

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:19:00 - [467]
 

Originally by: Haas Tabris
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: royal killer
Everyone got greedy, and when they found out about this exploit, nobody said anythingLaughing

But, 4 whole years....that's like 1460 days and nobody said anything! absurd. (didn't know about this btw.)


Sorry to burst your bubble.

But did you have a look at dys prices BEFORE invention?

Actually there were even free dys moons because it was just not worth to harvest those moons. There were only so few t2 items built compared to the time when invention became possible that the demand for those moon production were just very low.

Invention changed the demand for these things drastically. So you only can really count from this point of time. Before invention those whole moon products were more or less unsellable and worthless.


actually, this is totally true. i tried moon mining before invention and you literally had to know someone who needed the stuff in order to do anything with it. there just was no market for moon materials. even in jita.

so, go back two years and see who was exploiting this. i just wonderin if ccp will do anything...


why do you think moon mining was not profitable? there was a good supply of basicaly free materials ? maybe that's it ?

anyway this is quite fun ... just another little crisis in a fiction world ... the bets are that T2 items will increase in cost and t1 production will be worth a bit more as many people will not be able to afford T2 anymore.

pirates will be happy, t2 loot will actualy make a healthy profit ...

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:22:00 - [468]
 

Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
Yes, moon mining was introduced 4 years ago, so the guy who made this public says this bug had been ingame and working since introduction of POS system at all.


Makes me a very sad panda if true. Had a hard time earning my little isk to be able to buy me my little ships and CCP doesn't survey the big economy flows? What does this Mr. Economy professor do all day long at your company? At least admit that he is only working at ccp for a day per month...


I know a bit about the moon material markets including ferrogel, fermionic condensates and such.

Only the couple of last weeks there were stupidly low prices for these and big sales going on. Before that the market was quite stable and fixed to the dys (and to lesser degree prom).

A decoupling of price of produced items from the prices of materials need to build these items shows that something strange is going on. You can look at the market history and see that only in the recent weeks the price of those ferrogel etc. dropped heavily (and below production costs).

Also: the prices for moon materials/moon products before invention were so ridiculously low that even some dys moons were not harvested just because no one needed that stuff. So those 4 years are hugely exaggerated.

Because prices were more or less okay and coupled to the dys/prom prices until a few weeks ago I think that this bug is in game and abused since the alchemy introduction.


What I wonder is why no one from economic department noticed anything. They surely have numbers about production and consumption?

Also: can the economic department at least give now the numbers of pre- and post-alchemy production of ferrogel etc. Compared with usage of dys and usage of the dys-substitutes?

Better they do the basic stuff first instead of some fancy trends and correlations and what now. Just plain old production and consumption numbers, please.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:22:00 - [469]
 

Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 11/12/2008 09:24:16
Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
Isn't it funny that a big majority if not all of the people complaining here have one way or the other had or benefited from that "exploited" isk at any one time.

Also quite possibly at least half the people complaining have known/been associated with someone who was doing it.

Because come on, you cant all be so naive that you just think ONLY 3 "powerblocs" as the SHC post says knew about it.

Either way, it's being "fixed" now be good traders and benefit from it Twisted Evil


benefited? i think everyone but those directly obtaining the isk were victimized. it diminishes the game for everyone pure and simple.

how do you know the exploit itself didn't play a large part in the formation (not from ground up, but as they are now), continued growth and preservation of the powerblocs we have today?

sure x bloc has 2000 members, but would they had they not been so successful given such a strong economic backbone. would other alliances that did not have that advantage perhaps have prevailed in battles vs these entities without the exploit.

would some have been able to bounce back so quickly from defeats.... it goes on and on and on.....


Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:25:00 - [470]
 

Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
Isn't it funny that a big majority if not all of the people complaining here have one way or the other had or benefited from that "exploited" isk at any one time.

Also quite possibly at least half the people complaining have known/been associated with someone who was doing it.

Because come on, you cant all be so naive that you just think ONLY 3 "powerblocs" as the SHC post says knew about it.

Either way, it's being "fixed" now be good traders and benefit from it Twisted Evil


I would speculate that all titans in game have some taint on them. Propably most T2 BPO's that are no longer in the hands of their originial winners also. Ofc I'm a bit agitated over this - even if this does not hit me directly, as the advantage gained thru that kind of operations seems from my perspective way massive. A lot bigger effect on EVE market propably than those T20 BPO's were - there was only like 4 of them afterall.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:26:00 - [471]
 

I get this feeling the person who said they reported this 4 years ago was lying. I mean think about it, it's a dark horrible sceret, but most people wuldn't report it becausde they would be paid not to.

SO basicly someone told the wrong person and BAM the dorrs blew wide open. I bet it was a player that was really a dev.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:27:00 - [472]
 

This gives "The minerals I mine are free." a completely new meaning....

No wonder that there were quite a few T2 modules and especially ships priced below manufacturing cost.Evil or Very Mad

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:29:00 - [473]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
Yes, moon mining was introduced 4 years ago, so the guy who made this public says this bug had been ingame and working since introduction of POS system at all.


Makes me a very sad panda if true. Had a hard time earning my little isk to be able to buy me my little ships and CCP doesn't survey the big economy flows? What does this Mr. Economy professor do all day long at your company? At least admit that he is only working at ccp for a day per month...


I know a bit about the moon material markets including ferrogel, fermionic condensates and such.

Only the couple of last weeks there were stupidly low prices for these and big sales going on. Before that the market was quite stable and fixed to the dys (and to lesser degree prom).

A decoupling of price of produced items from the prices of materials need to build these items shows that something strange is going on. You can look at the market history and see that only in the recent weeks the price of those ferrogel etc. dropped heavily (and below production costs).

Also: the prices for moon materials/moon products before invention were so ridiculously low that even some dys moons were not harvested just because no one needed that stuff. So those 4 years are hugely exaggerated.

Because prices were more or less okay and coupled to the dys/prom prices until a few weeks ago I think that this bug is in game and abused since the alchemy introduction.


What I wonder is why no one from economic department noticed anything. They surely have numbers about production and consumption?

Also: can the economic department at least give now the numbers of pre- and post-alchemy production of ferrogel etc. Compared with usage of dys and usage of the dys-substitutes?

Better they do the basic stuff first instead of some fancy trends and correlations and what now. Just plain old production and consumption numbers, please.


The 'issue' was most likley not that bad before invention, bcos production was capped by the amount of T2 BPO's - However - it might have provided the exploiters needed initial capital to start T2 Syndicate by using those funds to buy additional T2 BPO's from the winners of lottery.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:33:00 - [474]
 

ITT: Alts of banned players out for BLOOD. Wink

Tai Paktu
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:34:00 - [475]
 

Originally by: Aaron Static
RESET TRANQUILITY


I'd like to imagine this is a cleverly placed troll, meant to mock the mob mentality and utterly absurd accusations coming out of this thread. But I've been wrong before.

Screw logic, let's make broad, sweeping generalizations with little to no proof to back up what we're saying, branding entire alliances as cheaters and exploiters and say CCP is the puppet master of an internet spaceship conspiracy within their own game! DANCE PUPPETS! DANCE!

Rolling Eyes

Baske
THE PAROXYSM
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:36:00 - [476]
 

Originally by: Bodhisattvas
Originally by: Baske
Edited by: Baske on 11/12/2008 08:00:24
Originally by: PROTOCOL
Quote:
This is just sick, how many alliances have been funded by this for 4 years while others have been working there asses off to to maintain there outposts


A post on the forums ran by the emotards of this game, by a banned player who is likely retaliating is the only indication of the length of this exploit. They had lot's of ferrogel in their hanger just doesnt cut it as proof. Why don't you wait to see what ccp has to say.

Do all you tin foil hatters think that they can provide an answer right away? This came to light in the middle of the damn night in iceland, you know that place where ccp work and live. This will take an investigation, ccp doesnt have a button they can push to spit out a list like you all want. Sit back, relax and I bet when the facts come out it is nowhere near the scope that this mob mentality has made it out to be. But keep screaming, you all look like fools.


You sound more guilty than anyone in this thread, trying to stop people from complaining about an issue which most likely has had 10 times more impact on the game than 9/11 had to real life.



Time out you muppet !! how could you even imagine the impact of 9/11 and even dare to disrespect the people that died in comparing it
to a bloody game economy. You and the rest of the emotards whinging about nothing need a reality check. **** really does
happen and if your virual empire is destroyed because of whatever get over it! play another game or something!!


It was a relative comparisson, not a direct...ok?

I do in no way disrespect those who died there, so stop your ranting. Fox Fan, lol !

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:38:00 - [477]
 

Okay, let's begin speculation on price shootups after this is done... I bet 1000%

Childeric Polaris
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:39:00 - [478]
 

CSM, please.

Heikki
Gallente
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:39:00 - [479]
 

Strange, I suddenly started really hoping that DarkFall (fantasy MMORPG with Eve like PVP and full looting) won't be a failure.

-Lasse
hoping for full transparency and hefty punishments

Makeme A'Billion
Gallente
WOLIMAZO INC
Posted - 2008.12.11 09:41:00 - [480]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 11/12/2008 09:24:16
Originally by: Makeme A'Billion
*Snip*


benefited? i think everyone but those directly obtaining the isk were victimized. it diminishes the game for everyone pure and simple.


Come on think outside of your "world is against me" box, that isk they got they obviously used to buy stuff on the market too, which means normal(non-exploity people) BENEFITED, that isk in turn was used to purchase something else, said seller BENEFITED and so on and so on...remember isk is only useful...for BUYING stuff, having it in your wallet is pretty boring and not very useful.

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
how do you know the exploit itself didn't play a large part in the formation (not from ground up, but as they are now), continued growth and preservation of the powerblocs we have today?

Erm...it did! lol what on earth do you think people use isk for?!?!?!? of course it benefited them but as my previous example showed isk goes round and round and round...

don't get me wrong, im not saying it was a good thing, but for people to do this for such a time scale was fair play on their part, and yes CCP messed up, what gripes me is people moaning its personally hurt them...it hasn't if that isk wasn't in the eve economy players would be alot poorer, and that my friend is pure and simple.


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