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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Caldari
International Multi-Player Consortium
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:21:00 - [361]
 

Originally by: Ima Alt


Fact is, you had an exploit that benefited certain parties greatly followed up by an alteration of historical data that again benefited the same parties. The guys who were doing these exploits weren't throwing up POSes with their mains - they used alts. Those alts are now banned, but the fruits of their exploitation could well be in the hands of the mains, who AGAIN, benefited from today's market panic.

With the change to market histories, it was like all the crazy buying and selling today never took place. Some real life money was made in Eve, today, and CCP seems to be covering somebody's tracks.

GateScout
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:21:00 - [362]
 

Originally by: Elisa Day
Originally by: Ima Alt
Originally by: Elisa Day


http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3434/omgmarketh4xrh0.jpg

It's the great Enriched Uranium and Liquid Ozone coverup of 08!

What region is that?


The Forge.


The same thing is happening in Amarr... Rolling Eyes

Ima Alt
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:25:00 - [363]
 

Edited by: Ima Alt on 11/12/2008 03:29:01
Originally by: Kulmid
I think they'd be able to track things a little bit better than that.
Legions of ice mining macroalts and real money traders disagree with you.

I don't think that it's a matter of CCP not being able to link alt accounts with main accounts, but more a matter of them not bothering with it when 99% of the Eve population is satisfied with symbolic alt bannings. Sure, the exploiters/RMTers/macroers could use proxies and contracts to evade character linking, but really, if CCP even put up a moderate anti-alt abuse effort, it wouldn't be so widespread in the first place.

TYCONDEROGA
Amarr
Method of Destruction
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:31:00 - [364]
 

Originally by: Ima Alt
Edited by: Ima Alt on 11/12/2008 03:29:01
Originally by: Kulmid
I think they'd be able to track things a little bit better than that.
Legions of ice mining macroalts and real money traders disagree with you.

I don't think that it's a matter of CCP not being able to link alt accounts with main accounts, but more a matter of them not bothering with it when 99% of the Eve population is satisfied with symbolic alt bannings. Sure, the exploiters/RMTers/macroers could use proxies and contracts to evade character linking, but really, if CCP even put up a moderate anti-alt abuse effort, it wouldn't be so widespread in the first place.


/me looks at name of poster and laughs Very Happy

durek magaliese
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:31:00 - [365]
 

So i'm guessing just like in the real world the chinise server is going to buy us out?Laughing

Ghoest
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:39:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I see very few people thanking CCP for fixing this.


Imagine if you learned the fire department had been giving away Molotov cocktails. Would you tank them when they decided to stop?

Ghoest
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:41:00 - [367]
 

Lolz you cant type "cocktail" out its the word used for mixed drinks.

rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:44:00 - [368]
 

well, after some research I think i have a fairly firm grasp of what happened, and I don't like it at all. It was a HUGE screwup by CCP, basically the result of inaction to something they knew was happening.

Thats about all I can say. I'm still not satisfied with what I know, and my sources could be full of sh**, so might now more in as this plays out.

Blastil
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:47:00 - [369]
 

STOP THE THREADNAUGHT! POWER DOWN THE ENGINES AND PREPARE TO BE BOARDED!

Lets take a look at what we do and don't know.

What we DO know:

We DO know that a bug was fixed, or atleast shut down today.
we DO know that poses and other resources were offlined and confiscated.
We DO know that this bug has caused some market unstabillity.
We DO know that much of this distress is caused by a post on the SHC forums by someone who supposedly engaged in the bugged tower fiasco for 4 years (how this man has the stamina to manage POSes enough to even spend the money he claims to have is beyond me).

What we DON"T know:

We DON'T know who's pose's were offlined. There is no offical or unoffical thread chronicaling bans, pos offlines, pos removals, or confiscation of ANY asets.
We DON'T know the extent of the financial bubble caused by these poses. It could all be localized, since the mats we're looking at can be simply re-applied to construction within the alliances who produce the T2 goods.
We DON'T know if the initial post on the SHC forums is even REAL, or just an epic troll, who sparked a flame war on the EVE-O forums.
We DON'T know how long this activity has actually gone on. We only have the word of a supposed participant who refuses to identify who he is, or what alliance he's from.
We DON'T know the actual ammount of ISK summoned out of nowhere from these POSes. It could be 5 mil, it could be 500 trillion. we simply DON'T KNOW.

Before we all put on our Amarr hats, and join in the 27th imperial crusade against the foul CCP infadel and their BoB allies, lets take a step back, and remember, this news just broke today. CCP its self is still probably looking into the numbers. I bet you that more than a few CCP employees had to call up their dates tonight, and are missing out on some healthy exposure to icelandic women, all because of some exploit, so lets all calm down here.

That being said, I'd like the report about what happened on my desk by tomorrow with a little more info than 'we found a bug guys!'

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:51:00 - [370]
 

Nice, rumormill points to this being 4 years old now?

Okay CCP, that banhammer's going to be busy, because if that timeframe is to believed, practically EVERYONE who's bought something off the market (read: practically everyone) is suspect and part of the problem.

Riggor Khan
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:54:00 - [371]
 

The real bad part of this whole thing is, CCP will ban a handful of people (mostly empire based) to use as an example and sacraficial lambs. The biggest offenders like AAA, TCF, UNL, BoB, Goons, Razor, MM, RA, etc will not be bothered. What is the point of even bothering with ccp any longer when they will tell half truths and can not even confess to something as simple as game lag.

There is a new game about anyway, "Jump Gates". Maybe there it will be possible to get a little honesty and integrity.
CCP seem to have a hard time remembering who the customers are and how their people get paid.Evil or Very Mad

Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:58:00 - [372]
 

Edited by: Re Mi on 11/12/2008 04:06:54
Originally by: Kulmid
Originally by: Ima Alt
Considering it takes minimal skills to set up a POS, the big alliance people who profited from this exploit almost certainly used alts. Rest assured, those throwaway characters 100% funded by GTCs were banned ruthlessly.


I think they'd be able to track things a little bit better than that. And unless they registered those account under a fake name, CCP will know who they are. The only way to really wash the ISK is to make it look like it was aquired in some way by force, and not by the alts just giving it straight to mains/corps/alliance. Or to run it through a series of market transactions, but to wash that amount if ISK would have an effect on the market.



Heres how it might work: How bout I rent space from you? Isk washed. I am both the renter and the landlord in RL, renting to my own alts who make fake reactions. Now I buy T2 BPO with my rent money and buy reaction materials from my renters (who are really me) so I can make T2 ships for the cost of T1, so I make even more money. *Oh yah, now I hire some sucker carebears to build me Titans.*

The real problem is that CCP has to decide if that entire tainted income stream gets confiscated. In the past they have not done that. In this case, I believe, that those who have eaten from the poison fruit should die.

Ghoest
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:03:00 - [373]
 

Any alliance that had this going on in any POS should lose all their POS.

Alois Hammer
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:06:00 - [374]
 

Edited by: Alois Hammer on 11/12/2008 04:06:53
this is prolly gona be a "ban all chars on mr x's account..
which means the alts are spared if they were bought with the same isk but from other people.
in that case alot of iskies is still prolly available .
of course , if mains were involved , it will definetly raise some questions...........
hey who has my old space?!?!?!?!
:)

Tareen Kashaar
Gyoza Society
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:06:00 - [375]
 

I guess it's that time of the year again.

Hello, winter drama!

Lea Re
Dirty Labs
Infinite Improbability Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:08:00 - [376]
 

What should happen is not banning
1. Check who was involved
2. Check the amount of isk that was made on suspicious transactions
3. Deduct that amount from wallets
4. Check large donations to other players
5. Check stated donation reasons
6. Deduct that money from players that were given isk
7. make the whole process transparent to eve community

it's a sad day for eve

Cur
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:09:00 - [377]
 

It never happened. Continue shooting npc's and mining to earn your legitimate isk.


Erm..MSN brothers, can I borrow a few trillion isk? Please? Embarassed

Kaper
Delve Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:15:00 - [378]
 

Not many of you checks the price histories after midnight eve time I gather..
The market history has always been several hours late doing the final sums for "yesterday" - for items with many transactions/large quantities..which is why the history for everything from tritanium to wrath cruise missiles over moon materials are late..

Calm down, have some dip.

Vitrael
Reaper Industries
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:16:00 - [379]
 

Well, every time I start to lose my objectivity for this game and become entrapped in its awesome glowing lasor pew pew fantasy world, some hot new scandal comes and sends me hurdling back to ****hole reality at the speed of then thousand internets per second.

Oh well... here we go again.

I SUMMON THEE... THREADNOUGHT!!!

DelboyTrotter
Trotters Independent Trading
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:19:00 - [380]
 

Originally by: Lea Re
What should happen is not banning
1. Check who was involved
2. Check the amount of isk that was made on suspicious transactions
3. Deduct that amount from wallets
4. Check large donations to other players
5. Check stated donation reasons
6. Deduct that money from players that were given isk
7. make the whole process transparent to eve community

it's a sad day for eve


This

All the isk generated should be removed from the game, but via the alliance wallets that held sov on the POS's that were exploiting

Elisa Day
Shade.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:22:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: DelboyTrotter
All the isk generated should be removed from the game, but via the alliance wallets that held sov on the POS's that were exploiting


Of course, this exploit actually didn't "generate" any ISK...

Ghoest
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:23:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: DelboyTrotter
Originally by: Lea Re
What should happen is not banning
1. Check who was involved
2. Check the amount of isk that was made on suspicious transactions
3. Deduct that amount from wallets
4. Check large donations to other players
5. Check stated donation reasons
6. Deduct that money from players that were given isk
7. make the whole process transparent to eve community

it's a sad day for eve


This

All the isk generated should be removed from the game, but via the alliance wallets that held sov on the POS's that were exploiting



If you removed all the money the keys players would all be Bliiions in debt and everyone in their alliances that got free stuff would still be ahead.

the alliances need to lose all their POS immediatly.

It turns out the entire EVE game is built on cheating.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:27:00 - [383]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 11/12/2008 04:40:13
let's see.. did the person who was witness to this supposed four year old bug petition it? did any of you years ago? My thinking is there is just irresponsible bashing going on here.. calm please. I'm sure the real details will surface in a news feed. In the mean time, all these questions are just plain not important right now.

Vitrael
Reaper Industries
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:41:00 - [384]
 

test

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:43:00 - [385]
 

Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 11/12/2008 04:46:43
biggest kick in the **ts is knowing how hard you work will never compare to how hard someone else cheats.

you'll never know.... did you lose a match/battle/fleetfight/station/system/region etc all because some guy had the code to get isk when you had to actually work (GRIND) to replace your stuff?

i know ccp doesn't have a practice of discussing too much about stuff like this, but ffs we should hear SOMETHING estimating just how much isk is in the game because of this exploit and damn straight if they even THINK someone is related to it, and they also happen to have 900billion-37trillion-99gabolaizillion in their wallet, that isk goes bye bye.

edit: oh, and lets not forget the assets. the pos's, the capitals and supercapitals... lets not forget the thousands of pos's that secure the regions and the massive fleets that defend them.

oh, and i dont just want an estimate. i want to know alliance names. BoB? Goons? (wouldn't that be ironic), RA? (no, NOT RA! Laughing), how about up north?

name and shame. feed them to the angry mod. we are the angry mob and we demand it

Garrick Packard
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:46:00 - [386]
 

Originally by: Ghoest

It turns out the entire EVE game is built on cheating.


You didn't get the memo?

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:48:00 - [387]
 

When I lose a ship, i gotta go grind money to replace it Sad

I can haz free trillions from thin air please?

Tirym
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:51:00 - [388]
 

Edited by: Tirym on 11/12/2008 04:53:02
Now... it's so complicated. The fact is that even by removing all isks from wallets would definetly NOT be enough, nor would the banning.

The problem lies in the fact that ISK can be invested and so it turns out that without cheating someone couldn't buy T2 // capital // etc BPs of any form, or maybe could not win the battle for that system with so rich moons, could not finance this or that activity that generated X ISK...

Nothing short of a complete reboot can fix this IF this has been going on for four years and IF more than 2/3 alliances did it.

Even by wiping the entire 0.0 sov CCP cannot fix it: they could have invested in huge isk producing machines in empire or whatever...

wow this is really a big turn around... and I think it's REALLY funny but probably because I'm a total casual (and crappy) player.

Bodhisattvas
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:52:00 - [389]
 

Originally by: Vitrael
test


I'm Sparticus!!!

IonHammer
Minmatar
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Merciless.
Posted - 2008.12.11 04:57:00 - [390]
 

:) another day in paradise.


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