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Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.10 08:44:00 - [1]
 

To allow me to complete Angel missions I have decided to cross train from Amarr to Minny (dont like the Gallente ship designs). However I know almost next to nothing about the different Minny ships.

I currently have 4M in gunnery, with most generic gunnery skills to IV. Started working on Large Projectiles this morning - still only L1 atm. I have also maxed cap regen skills due to also flying Amarr ships Very Happy My missile skills suck, and so do my shield skills - but I am willing to spend some time training them up. Got access to T2 light / med drones and working on heavies in between training other skills.

The question is - which of the Minny BS will best suit me for running L4 missions? Im looking for something that can hit out to 60km fairly easily (I hate chasing rats in missions), and can still mount a 400-500dps rat-specific tank. And most importantly can melt Angels faster than my Abaddon (once I have trained up the relevant skills)

So - what ship do people suggest as being best fit to my requirements? What other support skills will I need?

Fogy
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:19:00 - [2]
 

I got into amarr bs's some months ago, and have been running missions with the geddon off and on between op's now,
Overall i find the geddon to be waaaaay more efficient at missions then any of the minmatar bs's, but as you'w found out the angels missions can be abit harder, as your doing the damage they are heavily tanked against.
So, i went from having 10medium +5 light drones, to using 5 t2 berserkers..
the tracking on them is good enough to kill any frigat, and they cheew through the angel bs's in no time!

I gues what im saying is: dont train for minmatar if missions is you'r main goal!

My geddon fitt is:
[Armageddon, 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Berserker II x5

hardeners after what mission you'r doing, I only use 2 hardeners when doing sansha/amarr navy /blood raider missions.
Keeping your speed up is esential when you gett allot of agro, as the incomming damage reduction is grate!
Also killing cruisers / battlecruisers first is important, becaus they will be the ones doing most damage to you even when you got your speed up. Something the abaddon cant do. :)

For ammo, I use scorch, multis, and ultraviolet
You hitt friggies out to 45km with scorch, and killing them on the inbound is important.

Gues i ended up rambling mostly now..

As for your question, the typhoon is nice'ish for missions, big drone bay, 7 low's for armor tank..
Problem with the typhoon, is that it is verry skill intensive, requiering bouth gunnery, missile, and drone skills to shine!
using fusion, explosive missiles and drones, will cheew through angels like no tomorrow!

Fogy
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:28:00 - [3]
 

here's a typhoon settup that will work for angel missions
cap stable at 38% with my skillsett (maxed out capacitor skills)

736dps, using fusion, explosive torps, and berserkers t2
If your happy with going down on hardeners, you can always trow in a BCU and Gyro for an extra punsh!

[Typhoon, 1]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactor Control Unit II

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Bane Torpedo
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Berserker II x5

Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:34:00 - [4]
 

you trained minmatar battleships to do missions in? Why didn't you just train caldari. . .they have the best mission ships while Minmatar arguably have the worst.

Anyway, the best minmatar mission ship is the typhoon. . .but you really need a lot of skills to run it. The Mael is decent, but its a shield tanker. Ultimatly, any race can be made to pve. . .but if I were you, stick with Amarr (because they are the best for everything except angle ships) and when you have an angle mission, just hop into a level 4 Cruise Raven and breeze through it.

Dark Voynix
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:44:00 - [5]
 

angels do mostly explo and kinetic damage, correct?
Then shield have better natural resistance ( 60% and 40%) than armour ( 10% and 25%).

Go to shield tankers, should be easier ..
So maelstrom or tempest ( shield tanked ).

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:47:00 - [6]
 

I fly all races, and on misisons like angel extrav, nothing beats a good old fashoned minm ship for a minm job.

autos with fusion/barrage shred incomming angel BS crazy fast, all the rest is just icing on the cake (like the phoons drones and missiles etc)

any minm BS could do a angel mission faster than any amarr ship, and infact i suspect some minm BC/commands could beat amarr BS too

Chssmius
legio immortalorum
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.10 10:28:00 - [7]
 

I would consider the Maelstrom or the Typhoon foremost for Angel's missions.
If you are willing to put the skill points into training for them, then I don't think you can really "go wrong" with either.

Probably, the Typhoon would be slightly quicker to train for compared with training up for shield tanking. You will have to train up some missile supporting skills a bit to be slightly more effective against a wider variety of targets but your ample drone bay will make up for that nicely in the interim.

Lastly, the Typhoon has an BC sized signature radius meaning it takes reduced damage from all BS sized weapons but has a BS sized tank and gank, this improves its effective under many circumstances beyond what EFT will predict.

Too bad the nano-phoon is dead since the release of QR. You haven't seen someone get "bumped" until you have been bumped by a Typhoon doing over 4 km/s! Bumped my Drake over 60km! Ahh, good times....

Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.10 12:59:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 10/12/2008 12:59:39
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
you trained minmatar battleships to do missions in? Why didn't you just train caldari. . .they have the best mission ships while Minmatar arguably have the worst.


Firstly, I already have Amarr BS V and can breeze through all non Angel and Serp missions. However the high EM and thermal resists (85%) mean that Angels and Serps take much longer to kill - and in some circumstances are impossible to kill with my current skills (a 4M bounty Angel BS will rep faster than I can dps it with a mission fit). In comparison a 4M bounty Sansha or EOM vessel will be dead in under a minute to my Abaddon. So - to allow me to complete Angel and Serp missions Im looking for a better choice of ship.

My current skills are all gunnery and armor tanking. However I dont like the gallente ships (except the mega and I cant find a decent tank AND gank setup for that). Consequently Im considering moving to minny as I will at least be able to reuse some of my existing gunnery skills there (unlike caldari where I have no skills anywhere).

Secondly, regarding using Caldari ships. Repeat after me - "I am a sheep" Very Happy

Ravens may indeed be efficient but by all accounts are boring as hell to fly. I would much rather have a gunnery boat where I have to work to minimise transversal - as its much more immersive and rewarding to play.

Finally, when I started playing EVE I deliberately chose Amarr because they were the worst race, and I love playing the underdog. Consequently by the time Amarr got boosted to their current status I already had maxed a lot of Amarr skills, including Frig V, Cruiser V, BC V and BS V. Consequently I can fly Amarr more than adequately for PVE and PVP.

Im thinking of switching to Minny to keep things interesting while I save for a Marauder, and also because it gives me many more options for PVP than just flying Amarr.

BTW - Can anyone tell me what the PVE and PVP roles of each of the Minny BS is?

E.g. Apocalypse is Amarr fleet sniper, and easiest Amarr battleship for newbies to start doing L4's with.

Thanks for any info,

Gotrek

eXtas
NibbleTek
Posted - 2008.12.10 13:13:00 - [9]
 

I would use typhoon, fitted with 4x 1200mm arty, 4x cruise, ab, 3x cap recharger, 7x tank/fitting mods, 5x sentry drone

but since you only have gunnery skills a tempest or mael might be better fitted with 1200mm artys.. tho those ships work best shield tanked for missions (tempest can be armor tanked but without any gyros its meh)

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.10 13:17:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: The Djego on 10/12/2008 13:18:02
Mealstorm probalby if you donīt want to skill up Missles to.

On the other hand, simply fit more Gank to the Abaddon, AE or WC donīt take this long with my Abaddon for Angel stuff(about 50 Minutes for AE without the Bonus Stage what would require refitting of my Puls Setup and about 20 Minutes pure shooting for the Angel Stage in WC).

eXtas
NibbleTek
Posted - 2008.12.10 13:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson


BTW - Can anyone tell me what the PVE and PVP roles of each of the Minny BS is?

E.g. Apocalypse is Amarr fleet sniper, and easiest Amarr battleship for newbies to start doing L4's with.

Gotrek


PHOON is a close range armor tanked bs, it used to be fast Sad it have 3 weapon systems (drones, missiles and last guns). With good skills it puts out ok dps even without any damagemods and can be fitted for full tank.

PEST is probobly the ship in eve that can preform most tasks, tho its not really good at annything but still works. it can be shield or armor tanked (it have more shield then armor), fitted with arty's or ac's, have 2 spare high slots for neuts/RR/missiles/salvage..
in pvp fitted for sniping with 1400mm arty's it does good alpha but its dps, tracking and range are just so bad you want to cry.
Close range fitted for pvp it have some advantages over other ships, guns dont use cap (still have bad base cap), armor tanked you have 6 lows to share tank and damage mods with so tank will be crap. but after webb nerf its one of the only BS that can kill suport easy. AC's got best tracking, 2 spare higs for fitting neuts, 5 mids so it can fit takling and/or ew. still its dps is more like a hac or BC then a BS Sad

MAEL is a sheild tanker. I really dont like this ship but I guess it can be used for PVE. it uses 8 guns to do the same crappy damage that tempest does with 6! tho fitted with artys it got even better alpha. and its a active shield tanker so it fails at takling and tanking at same time so no close range ship. only use I can think of where its beter then a tempest for pvp is sniping with 1400mm artys and fitting a doomsday tank at same time.

Ghoest
Posted - 2008.12.10 13:40:00 - [12]
 

The typhoon isnt really an option unless you have missile and drone skills to match your gunnery skills.

Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.10 14:12:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: The Djego
Edited by: The Djego on 10/12/2008 13:18:02
On the other hand, simply fit more Gank to the Abaddon, AE or WC donīt take this long with my Abaddon for Angel stuff(about 50 Minutes for AE without the Bonus Stage what would require refitting of my Puls Setup and about 20 Minutes pure shooting for the Angel Stage in WC).

Problem is I dont yet have T2 Large Pulses - so I generally end up using beams on L4's as I get much better damage beyond 20km (where most enemy BS are). If I put on damage mods and keep the beams then I go heavily cap unstable (generally prefer a perma-rep tank). I suppose as Angel BS tend to orbit at 10-30km I might get away with pulses and drop some cap regen for more dps. Though adding an extra heat sink will only raise my dps from 650-800 (ish) dps - which after resists means an extra 20dps....

Other option people have mentioned is to fit 8 x large projectiles to my Apoc or Abaddon........??

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2008.12.10 14:37:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
Originally by: The Djego
Edited by: The Djego on 10/12/2008 13:18:02
On the other hand, simply fit more Gank to the Abaddon, AE or WC donīt take this long with my Abaddon for Angel stuff(about 50 Minutes for AE without the Bonus Stage what would require refitting of my Puls Setup and about 20 Minutes pure shooting for the Angel Stage in WC).

Problem is I dont yet have T2 Large Pulses - so I generally end up using beams on L4's as I get much better damage beyond 20km (where most enemy BS are). If I put on damage mods and keep the beams then I go heavily cap unstable (generally prefer a perma-rep tank). I suppose as Angel BS tend to orbit at 10-30km I might get away with pulses and drop some cap regen for more dps. Though adding an extra heat sink will only raise my dps from 650-800 (ish) dps - which after resists means an extra 20dps....

Other option people have mentioned is to fit 8 x large projectiles to my Apoc or Abaddon........??


So instead of spending time training for minmatar BS, then train to T2 pulses. They solve your problem.

Laughlyn Vaughns
Gallente
Lagos-Vaughn Industries
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:15:00 - [15]
 

Despite being the lowest tier, the typhoon is pone the most skill intensive ships sinc eu need good Projectile, Missile and Drone skills to make it really effective. Once u have them skills tho it'll probs be one the ships u use most of all.

Until u get that tho then the Maelstrom has a really nice shield tank available to it which is great for angels and once game is back from DT i'll get my corp mate to send me his setup and forward that to u as it resists laser npcs effectively so shud be able to cope with angels too.

for the Typhoon tho it depends on what range u want.

i generally have

[Typhoon, Missions]
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

100MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L

Auxiliary Nano Pump I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

As u can see u have 2 spare rigs to do what u wish with and 2 spare lows for a gyro II or BCU IIand u have enuff drone space to fit couple fleets of lite drones and couple fleet of mediums.

Webbers are there for ur auto's to take down the BS's that get nice and upclose to u and cruise missiles help tp draw aggro from further spawns and help ur drones kill cruisers/battlecruisers.
If u do a lot of amarr missions i'm guessign u have enuff lps for the navy repper with the nano pump gives u bout 1000 repped per cycle and the cap booster makes ship cap stable at 60% ish (without AB) if u dont want the AB then u can add extra cap recharger for better performance and the ship is one the faster in game.
It works pretty well and u may have to warp out 1 or 2 times on bigger missions but angels aint very nice on armor tankers and its based on what other rigs u have and ur skills.

Willem Revolati
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:38:00 - [16]
 

Well considering you've trained alot for Ammar BS's I'm going to asume you have high armor tanking skills, in which case the Typhoon really is the way to go. It's a fun ship to fly and really is one of the most versatile ships in the game. It has 7 low slots and can therefore have one hell of an armor tank on it. But if you say your missile skills suck then perhaps you won't get the most out of it as you will have to have a good balance between gunnery, missiles and drones. Still worth the extra time though it is a great ship!

For your 4m gunnery skills the Maelstrom will be best. Can load 8 turret's on it and is capable of some very big volley's. Problem here is that you say your shield skills are not so great, which will leave your tank a bit screwed up cos the ship is designed to hold heavy shield boosting.

The Tempest falls somewhere in between the other two. It is possible to set a good armor or shield tank on it and it's speed makes it a nice autocannon boat.

In my opinion the Typhoon is the best all-round mission runner the heavy gank it provides can chew threw enemies with ease and you'll complete missions faster, but sometimes the Maelstrom's tanking abilities will cope better and be alittle bit more reliable but will take longer to kill other ships as it is a very sluggish ship.

Mr. Revolati's bottom line rule: Everyone should learn to fly the Typhoon Razz

Eva Drone
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:47:00 - [17]
 

Assuming you don't have t2 artillery and good shield skills then a Maelstrom should be your weapon of choice. The shield skills will take less than a week to train from 0 to use t2 shield hardeners and t1 x-large shield booster.


[Maelstrom, angel mission runner]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Explosion Dampening Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
'Copasetic' I Particle Field Acceleration
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x10

Solid Prefekt
Haven Front
Posted - 2008.12.10 16:31:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Chssmius
Probably, the Typhoon would be slightly quicker to train for compared with training up for shield tanking. You will have to train up some missile supporting skills a bit to be slightly more effective against a wider variety of targets but your ample drone bay will make up for that nicely in the interim.


The Typhoon is a lot more skill intensive. You have to train missiles, drones, and projectiles. With Maelstrom you just train projectiles and you get a shield boost bonus and since it is a shield tanker you get to put on dmg mods.

Matar do generally suck though for mission running as you have the worst DPS. Matar ships are about the Alpha and not sustained damage. Something which does not matter much in mission running.

Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.10 16:31:00 - [19]
 

Thanks all for the comments.

As I have 4 or 5 days to train up Minny Cruiser V before I can even start on the Minny BS skill, then I think I will simply see how much cash I can accumulate in the mean time.

I will get the most expensive Minny BS I can afford, and if there is sufficient left over will also get a Phoon just because it sounds fun - and gives me something else to train up for in the longer term.

Undertow Latheus
Posted - 2008.12.13 21:23:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
Thanks all for the comments.

As I have 4 or 5 days to train up Minny Cruiser V before I can even start on the Minny BS skill, then I think I will simply see how much cash I can accumulate in the mean time.

I will get the most expensive Minny BS I can afford, and if there is sufficient left over will also get a Phoon just because it sounds fun - and gives me something else to train up for in the longer term.


umm... why exactly are you getting minnie cruiser V when your primary goal is getting minnie bs skills for angel missions?

and yeah, if i had enough sp i'd fly typhoons 24/7 Twisted Evil


 

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