open All Channels
seplocked Features and Ideas Discussion
blankseplocked 04:15:32 Notify Your Nyx will self-destruct in 2 Minutes
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic

DoU Copy
Posted - 2008.12.08 06:27:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: DoU Copy on 08/12/2008 06:27:26
Edit:

Kaylis Tzu
Posted - 2008.12.08 06:28:00 - [32]
 

I like the ideas in the OP. I think a 4th option would be not allow self destruct will in combat. This would allow all other options that people use self destruct for intended reasons and still prevent people from screwing people out of a well earned killmail.

Ultimately the killmail issue is a minor one compared to the risk and generally losses the pilots attacking the MS take and there isn't even loot to reimburse the effort. All three Cap kills the OP referenced were attacked in subcaps only. CCP keeps paying lip service to reducing the advantages of blobs but this function of the self-destruct feature flys in the face of this effort.

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.12.08 06:33:00 - [33]
 

How about "Notify: You can not self-destruct because you are being targeted."

Or, just remove the mechanic for everything but a pod.

Tarin Adur
Gallente
Crimson Empire.
Posted - 2008.12.08 07:43:00 - [34]
 

Lol Rolling Eyes

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2008.12.08 07:46:00 - [35]
 

New mod, honor scramblers, if used by target they remove aggressors killmail. If used by aggressor, they ensure your killmail even in the event of self-destruct.

Tadaa? Laughing

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2008.12.08 07:49:00 - [36]
 

Self-Destruct needs to be fixed for all capital class ships, period.

Broken Rose
Minmatar
Galactic Defence Syndicate
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.12.08 09:07:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Vitrael
"Uh oh, Hictor's got me and dreads are cynoing in... looks like this is the end!"
04:15:32 Notify Your Nyx will self-destruct in 2 Minutes

Don't you think it's about time we revisited this feature?

It may have been implemented for any number of reasons, but nowadays it is by and large used by capital and super-capital pilots to prevent an embarrassing loss mail. Hey, yeah, I'm whining- we had three capitals deny us killmails in three separate incidences today (including a Nyx). Personally, I think this behavior is an exploit, albeit an annoying, not a game-breaking one.

The only other use for self-destruct I can think of is podding yourself to a home station when stuck somewhere far away. As is such I propose a number of options that will fix the cowardly self-destructing capital issue, but allow the feature to retain its usefulness:

1. No Insurance for Self-destruction


A simple and elegant solution- if you self destruct, there is no insurance payout. Capital pilots will have to consider the price of the lossmail against their insurance. If they're willing to lose the insurance, then I suppose they've bought their "dignity". The only flip-side to this would be that people who want to self destruct their ships in peace to collect insurance would be out of luck- oh well, I say. If they really must they could just have corpmate shoot them.

2. All-systems Shutdown

Initiating self-destruct offlines all of your modules, and/or sets capacitor to 0, and/or sets all resistances to 0. This would make it much easier to finish off capitals that are trying to save themselves the killmail, and would not cause any particular problem for anyone using self-destruct to travel or get insurance.

3. Self-destruction generates Killmails

Another perfectly merciless solution. Travel/insurance-picking self destructors are not hampered and capital pilots can't worm their way out of a lossmail at all.

Why would changing this mechanic be better for Eve?

Killmails are the social capital of Eve. PVPers love the pew, and they love to have hard recognition of their victories. That's why killmails were introduced in the first place. That's why people who self-destruct should not be able to avoid lossmails. When a gang pins some capitals and they self-destruct, no one is happy: the killers feel cheated out of their bragging rights, and their victims are still out of their ships.

I propose we make at least one party happy.

As the Soviets once said, NO MERCY FOR COWARDS!


Well if you did not bring the dps to finish off the carrier before the timer ended then I'm afraid its your loss not your intended victim.

Here is my opinion of why your suggestions will not work.

1, Negating insurance hurts no one but the little guy's, alliances would just suck up the costs and move on. Carriers are the new battleships, most larger alliances would just buy a new one and people would still just self destruct to deny the kill.

2, Not sure what this would resolve except perhaps to allow you a chance to destroy the vessel when all its defensive modules go offline. But if you take into account that the self destruct actually requires the pilot to overload their powercore and the fact you have two minutes to offload as much damage as possible I still dont see this as being much use.

3, ok so generates an killmail, to who the attacker or the person who actually destroyed the ship, the pilot who initiated the self destruct. The reason this would not work is because why should the pirate get the kill when the effort has been purely lacking and they were unable to get the killshot in, where as if the pilot of the ship gets the killmail, he is unlikely to pass the information to those who caused him to self destruct his ship.

At the end of the day, self destruct is a mechanic and its working as intended. Suck it up, bring more DPS.


Captain Hack
Caldari
The Sons of Anarchy.
Posted - 2008.12.08 09:34:00 - [38]
 

cry more baby

Ivorr Bigun
Posted - 2008.12.08 09:50:00 - [39]
 

No.

Works fine as it is no changes needed.

Azrael Dinn
19th Star Logistics
Posted - 2008.12.08 10:25:00 - [40]
 

Now no offence to the pvp population who cares about the killmails but what is wrong with you???

The point is that the ship gets blown up and how it does that realy doesn't matter honestly. So get a grip of your selfs and try to think the whole picture and not a stupid killmail.

I vote the selfdestruction stays. Everyone should have the option to blow them selfs up if they whish to do so. No point removing something that sometimes might ease your trip to empire Twisted Evil

Chimii Lecto
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.08 10:31:00 - [41]
 

Can agree with 1# but 2# & 3# is fine as they are.
The ship exploded right? So you pretty much succeded in killing it.

Dantes Revenge
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.08 11:12:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: DoctorDanny
I'd be so very happy if CCP just removed the entire killmail at all. That way we'd be freed of all the immature little killmail collectors too.

/signed

I do think that the killmails kill the immersion. If you kill, then so be it, if you don't you don't. Having a system in place that allows nothing but epeen stroking generates people who have nothing of value to offer the game with respect to roleplay. This is supposed to be a different universe filled with corporations and factions that sometimes don't get on with each other, pirates that ransom and plunder loot, bounty hunters that hunt pirates and so on. This isn't supposed to be a dogfighting contest to see who can rack up the most kills. If you want that, Go back to playing games like Tachyon or such where killboards were the main feature of the game.

I got fed up with Tachyon and that sort of game long ago because I wanted some sort of storyline type game where killmails were less important than the reason to kill. Eve was once that game and yet still with a high degree of PVP, but there was a reason to kill that stayed within the parameters of the gameplay. Now, it's filled with epeen stroking killmail seekers that play for no reason other than to collect killmails.

Vesta Uaelb
Posted - 2008.12.08 11:26:00 - [43]
 

So your whine is because you didn't get a kill mail?

Not that you didn't kill it, or that you didn't "conquor" you victim, but that you didn't get something so show someone else that you did.

I don't think the problem is with the killmail system to be honest Confused

Murasaki Midori
Posted - 2008.12.08 11:36:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Vitrael
1. No Insurance for Self-destruction

A simple and elegant solution- if you self destruct, there is no insurance payout. Capital pilots will have to consider the price of the lossmail against their insurance. If they're willing to lose the insurance, then I suppose they've bought their "dignity". The only flip-side to this would be that people who want to self destruct their ships in peace to collect insurance would be out of luck- oh well, I say. If they really must they could just have corpmate shoot them.


This is really the only sensible option of the lot.

Originally by: Vitrael
2. All-systems Shutdown

Initiating self-destruct offlines all of your modules, and/or sets capacitor to 0, and/or sets all resistances to 0. This would make it much easier to finish off capitals that are trying to save themselves the killmail, and would not cause any particular problem for anyone using self-destruct to travel or get insurance.


Nope. Why have all your modules shut down? It means you die faster, so why even use it? What's the point of self-destruct then?

Originally by: Vitrael
3. Self-destruction generates Killmails

Another perfectly merciless solution. Travel/insurance-picking self destructors are not hampered and capital pilots can't worm their way out of a lossmail at all.


It should only generate a loss mail. The agressors wouldn't deserve the killmail if they couldn't kill a carrier fast enough. It makes you think about tactics and strategy, not just pew pew (which is fine for small gang warfare - but NOT for capital fleets).

Originally by: Vitrael
Why would changing this mechanic be better for Eve?

Killmails are the social capital of Eve. PVPers love the pew, and they love to have hard recognition of their victories. That's why killmails were introduced in the first place. That's why people who self-destruct should not be able to avoid lossmails. When a gang pins some capitals and they self-destruct, no one is happy: the killers feel cheated out of their bragging rights, and their victims are still out of their ships.


Killmail were introduced as statistics. It's a shame they've become such 'social capital'. Then again if you and your gang can't kill a carrier within two minutes, you have no claim to bragging rights whatsoever. You'd be bragging about beating a crippled kid in a 100m race if that's the case.

Originally by: Vitrael
As the Soviets once said, NO MERCY FOR COWARDS!


That's probably one of the reasons the USSR collapsed in the first place.

Nyu Shin
Posted - 2008.12.08 11:36:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Nyu Shin on 08/12/2008 11:39:06
Vitrael, QR introduced medals to Eve. Create one and award yourself.

Maybe "Medal for heroic acts of killwhoring under ABSENT enemy fire." would fit.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2008.12.08 11:57:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Murasaki Midori

Killmail were introduced as statistics. It's a shame they've become such 'social capital'. Then again if you and your gang can't kill a carrier within two minutes, you have no claim to bragging rights whatsoever. You'd be bragging about beating a crippled kid in a 100m race if that's the case.



Mr. Madison Midori, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Very Happy

Lord Zoran
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.12.08 12:06:00 - [47]
 

let people be cowards if they want, at the end of the day they will get a reputation for it.

JabJabVVV
Burger Nip
Posted - 2008.12.08 12:32:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Originally by: DoctorDanny
I'd be so very happy if CCP just removed the entire killmail at all. That way we'd be freed of all the immature little killmail collectors too.



I got fed up with Tachyon and that sort of game long ago because I wanted some sort of storyline type game where killmails were less important than the reason to kill. Eve was once that game and yet still with a high degree of PVP, but there was a reason to kill that stayed within the parameters of the gameplay. Now, it's filled with epeen stroking killmail seekers that play for no reason other than to collect killmails.



/signed

It's like being at war, we've all seen the films:

Pilot: I've shot down another jerry plane, that makes 3 this week, hurrah.
Squadron Leader: lol, stfu, gb2wow; no one's counting.

Oh wait, it wasn't like that at all was it... this game nurtures peoples competitive nature and the killmail system is integral to encouraging competition for certain game play styles.

Just like a winning fleet battles, successful social engineering, taking stations, having a bigger wallet than someone else are integral to other game play styles.

Just because someone isn't playing your way, doesn't mean they're playing badly.

As for the ops suggestions; I'd support no insurance for self destruct (along with no insurance for concord kills) and no self destruct with aggression (your crew should be too busy fighting to arrange the scuttling of your ship).

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.12.08 12:37:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Verx Interis
Also, people selfdestruct to deny the enemy loot. Should be changed.

With respect I disagree. This is a perfectly valid tactic. Scorched earth should remain an option.

Akiba Penrose
The Praxis Initiative
Posted - 2008.12.08 12:55:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
I think to fix this problem CCP needs to get stop using the kill mail system.

Just drop it completely and let those that run around 0.0 and low sec kill things to kill things and not for point whoring. I can't think of another system that gets Eve players more in the mind set of Wow players.

So CCP I am asking you to just stop the kill mail system.

QFT

Josef Odinssen
Posted - 2008.12.08 13:55:00 - [51]
 

RL Naval General Report:

"we scored a fine victory today on the field of battle, we cornered a mothership with overwhelming force and after a sustained barrage with its armor heavily defeated the captain was forced to scuttle her, our enemy has been greatly weakened by the loss of a flagship and the war will now turn in our favor".

Eve Naval General Report:

"Mommy, Mommy, coward player blew up his own ship and now i doesnt get to brag on interwebs that i has killed it! and now i dont get all the hawt officer lootz which is mine! MINE! I wants it! i wants the PREEEEEEEEECIOUS! waaaaaaaaah!"



Noriko Rei
Venture Racing
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:02:00 - [52]
 

Scuttling the ship to prevent the enemy from getting any functional gratification (loot) or psychological satisfaction (killmail) should earn you a medal, not a nerf.

...and the idea that small gangs should be able to take out capitals and supercapitals at will is preposterous.

Odessima
Caldari
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:05:00 - [53]
 

What I dont get is why people seem to think that a small gang should be able to kill a capital or supercapital quickly, killing one should be an accomplishment not an everday thing.

I guess it really is about the kill mail.

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:09:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Lord Zoran
let people be cowards if they want, at the end of the day they will get a reputation for it.



What was the name of that BoB CEO that chickened out in Delve of all places?

JabJabVVV
Burger Nip
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:31:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Josef Odinssen
RL Naval General Report:

"we scored a fine victory today on the field of battle, we cornered a mothership with overwhelming force and after a sustained barrage with its armor heavily defeated the captain was forced to scuttle her, our enemy has been greatly weakened by the loss of a flagship and the war will now turn in our favor".

Eve Naval General Report:

"Mommy, Mommy, coward player blew up his own ship and now i doesnt get to brag on interwebs that i has killed it! and now i dont get all the hawt officer lootz which is mine! MINE! I wants it! i wants the PREEEEEEEEECIOUS! waaaaaaaaah!"



Originally by: Vice-Admiral Sir Sydney Fremantle after the scuttling of the German High Seas Fleet at Scapa Flow
[You have] violated common honour and the honourable traditions of seamen of all nations. With an armistice in full operation, you commenced hostilities without notice. By your conduct, you have added one more to the breaches of faith and honour of which Germany has been guilty in this war. You have proved to the few who doubted it that the word of the New Germany is no more to be trusted than that of the old.


Translated into ****** for you: waah, waah the nasty man asploded his ships now we donts getz the lootz.

If it's ******ed leet speak you are complaining about then you need to start a thread about it, however, if you think your comparison is, in some way, valid then you are, as I hope I have proved with that quote, wrong.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:59:00 - [56]
 

If you didn't get the kill, you didn't deserve the kill. Suck it up and be happy the enemy is dead.

Rainhailer
Gallente
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.12.08 18:00:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: tarin adur
Lol Rolling Eyes

Tarin, hush.


Gantor Tesla
Amarr
Dead Parrot Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.08 18:50:00 - [58]
 

Scuttling a ship is a real life tactic to stop your enemy from getting their hands on your equipment.... sounds familiar doesn't it? If you have a problem, kill the ship faster.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2008.12.08 19:13:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 08/12/2008 19:17:14
Originally by: Vitrael
1. No Insurance for Self-destruction

I strongly agree.

It would remove the mineral cap on these ships and realistcly speaking, irl noone would be reimbursed if he'd ever selfmade the accident by purpose (irl I work on mainframes for an insurance compagny atm).

Originally by: Vitrael
2. All-systems Shutdown

Not needed imo, especially if you push the wrong button by mistake. Right clicking the ship blah blah blah. If you saw some of my topics, I can't bear right clicking menus.

Originally by: Vitrael
3. Self-destruction generates Killmails

I'd prefer "having a module activated less than 10 seconds berfore and after the initialisation of a self-detruction generates a special killmails named after 'made this player in this ship selfdestruct' ".

Originally by: Vitrael
Why would changing this mechanic be better for Eve?
NO MERCY FOR COWARDS!

Fully agree, but, as a french, I prefer "SHAME ON COWARDS" oneoneone :)

Madius
Posted - 2008.12.08 19:24:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Gantor Tesla
Scuttling a ship is a real life tactic to stop your enemy from getting their hands on your equipment.... sounds familiar doesn't it? If you have a problem, kill the ship faster.

Indeed.

Funny how EVE players talk about it being a "cold harsh place" and then turn around and bawl for nerfs when they don't get loot/killmails/whatever.


Pages: 1 [2] 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only