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Hauleralt0002
Posted - 2008.12.06 04:50:00 - [1]
 

Down and dirty I think this ship still has what it takes to be one of the best roamers in the game. You are fast enough to outrun anything thing that can kill you and you can kill anything fast enough to tackle you.

Highs:
5x 220 T2 w/barrage
1x Medium Energy Neut T2

Mids:
1x 10mn MWD T2
1x 24k Warp Disruptor T2
1x Fleeting Webber
1x Large Shield Extender

Lows:
3x Gyros T2
2x Nanofibers T2

Rigs:
2x Abit Extensions (fall off rigs)

Drones:
5x Warrior T2s


With somewhat ok skills/ implants you top out over 3k straight line and over 450 without MWD on. Anything gets to close neut+web+drones can take care of it.





Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.12.06 06:05:00 - [2]
 

Personally, on a ship with as weak of a cap as the Vagabond, I don't think the neut really helps anything. It's only going to be effective on the smallest of ships, and you'll be dumping copious amounts of cap between your MWD and the neut. Plus, it's terrible range means if you can neut them you already have them webbed anyway. I'd probably just stick a launcher up there instead, but then again I don't fly the accursed things.

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.12.06 09:21:00 - [3]
 

I still think the best fit is such:

5x 425mm t2, 1x standard launcher
1x MWd t2, 1x Scrambler t2, 2x LSE t2
1x OD t2, 1x PDU t2, 3x Gyro t2

Rig to taste

Use warrior 2's on any frig within scram range, or vs things like afs just keep distance at 9km. I have yet to run into any small ship that can stop me, in fact killing another vaga and a raptor at the same time, with no trouble at all.


434 DPS without drones, with drones it gets into the 500's. Not bad for a small fast ship that can still outrun trouble with ease.
No the guns do not have trouble tracking, because you are not using the MWD to orbit.


Sun Sliver
Minmatar
SEPTAGON TRANS-ILLUMINATI CORPORATION
Posted - 2008.12.06 18:55:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mortuus


No the guns do not have trouble tracking, because you are not using the MWD to orbit.




pre patch i would have agreed with you, but damn me if a i couldn't hit an ishkur for just about nothing, drones did more dmg than me with that setup. Now you add a te or 2 there i dont think its an issue

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2008.12.06 19:33:00 - [5]
 

Your buffer isn't strong enough to be inside your neut range, I think you would be best be served with a launcher instead.

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.12.06 19:35:00 - [6]
 

Do not ORBIT an AF. Use keep at range and keep transversal low. I usually pop frigates in 2-3 volleys, or about 6 seconds.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.12.06 19:44:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Hauleralt0002
Down and dirty I think this ship still has what it takes to be one of the best roamers in the game. You are fast enough to outrun anything thing that can kill you and you can kill anything fast enough to tackle you.

Highs:
5x 220 T2 w/barrage
1x Medium Energy Neut T2

Mids:
1x 10mn MWD T2
1x 24k Warp Disruptor T2
1x Fleeting Webber
1x Large Shield Extender

Lows:
3x Gyros T2
2x Nanofibers T2

Rigs:
2x Abit Extensions (fall off rigs)

Drones:
5x Warrior T2s


With somewhat ok skills/ implants you top out over 3k straight line and over 450 without MWD on. Anything gets to close neut+web+drones can take care of it.



ditch the web (you're fighting in falloff, remember? hence the rigs?), ditch the neut, fit a second LSE, ditch a gyro for a tracking enhancer.

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2008.12.06 21:10:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Faife
ditch the web (you're fighting in falloff, remember? hence the rigs?), ditch the neut, fit a second LSE, ditch a gyro for a tracking enhancer.


Isn't that TE a bit of a waste there? I mean, half it's bonuses (optimal range increase) is useless for a pure-falloff fighting ship like the vaga...is the tracking increase good enough to justify losing one Gyro?

Then why don't switch to Dual 180s for superior tracking and superior DPS ?
5x Dual 180s II + Barrage + 3x Gyros II = 366 turret DPS, 0.1237 tracking
5x 220s Vulcan II + Barrage + 2x Gyros II + 1x TE II = 347 turret DPS, 0.1206 tracking

Rudolf Miller
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.12.06 21:38:00 - [9]
 

On SiSi I took a blarpy with a scarm and AB and took out a vaga.. his guns did no damage and I tanked his drones. I was going 918 m/s and he wasn't moving. Of course the solution here was he should have webbed me but that wasn't on his fit. Either way it would have been tough to take me out at 2,500 m considering tracking.


stopdropandlol
Gallente
Final Agony
B A N E
Posted - 2008.12.06 22:08:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Rudolf Miller
On SiSi I took a blarpy with a scarm and AB and took out a vaga.. his guns did no damage and I tanked his drones. I was going 918 m/s and he wasn't moving. Of course the solution here was he should have webbed me but that wasn't on his fit. Either way it would have been tough to take me out at 2,500 m considering tracking.




uhh what does it matter if you killed him while he was stopped.

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2008.12.06 23:03:00 - [11]
 

A MWDing ceptor catching and scramming a Vaga is sth I know is possible...
Now, we cannot judge the usefulness of a still nice HAC (perhaps the only nano HAC left), by a silly mistake...it's not like the norm a scramming, ABing AF catching a Vaga that would normally zoom around it 3-4 times faster...

Should ceptors retain their previous sig radius penalties, the Vaga with Dual 180s would be almost unbeatable as a ceptor / frig killer. It's still nice tho...

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.12.06 23:35:00 - [12]
 

Neut/Missile + Scram + Warrior 2's = dead ceptor pretty fast. If an AF locks you down you are a failure.

Marcus Druallis
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.12.07 00:48:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Faife
Originally by: Hauleralt0002
Down and dirty I think this ship still has what it takes to be one of the best roamers in the game. You are fast enough to outrun anything thing that can kill you and you can kill anything fast enough to tackle you.

Highs:
5x 220 T2 w/barrage
1x Medium Energy Neut T2

Mids:
1x 10mn MWD T2
1x 24k Warp Disruptor T2
1x Fleeting Webber
1x Large Shield Extender

Lows:
3x Gyros T2
2x Nanofibers T2

Rigs:
2x Abit Extensions (fall off rigs)

Drones:
5x Warrior T2s


With somewhat ok skills/ implants you top out over 3k straight line and over 450 without MWD on. Anything gets to close neut+web+drones can take care of it.



ditch the web (you're fighting in falloff, remember? hence the rigs?), ditch the neut, fit a second LSE, ditch a gyro for a tracking enhancer.


Neut is very good for webbing ceptors. Pretty much the neut is there when its a do or die situation.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.12.07 08:13:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 07/12/2008 08:21:54
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 07/12/2008 08:20:17
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 07/12/2008 08:16:52
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 07/12/2008 08:14:40
Originally by: Diomidis

Should ceptors retain their previous sig radius penalties, the Vaga with Dual 180s would be almost unbeatable as a ceptor / frig killer. It's still nice tho...



If said ceptor is orbiting in scrambler range, I don't see 180s hitting him really, regardless of him running mwd or not.

A single web will not help that much if the ceptor has one too since he still can dictate range very easily and crawl into a 500m orbit once you are scrambled.

Warrior IIs are the best bet, apart from killing him quick before he gets into scram range, but then again its not like the vaga couldnt tank a ceptor long enough for its drones to grind him down, only when they show in packs it can get ugly.

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2008.12.07 08:37:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Diomidis

Should ceptors retain their previous sig radius penalties, the Vaga with Dual 180s would be almost unbeatable as a ceptor / frig killer. It's still nice tho...



If said ceptor is orbiting in scrambler range, I don't see 180s hitting him really, regardless of him running mwd or not.

A single web will not help that much if the ceptor has one too since he still can dictate range very easily and crawl into a 500m orbit once you are scrambled.

Warrior IIs are the best bet, apart from killing him quick before he gets into scram range, but then again its not like the vaga couldnt tank a ceptor long enough for its drones to grind him down, only when they show in packs it can get ugly.


Exactly. Dual 180s cannot track an orbiting ceptor, neither could before scram changes, where webbing ceptors could catch a Vaga for roughly the similar effect - your speed when 90% webbed was roughly the same as it is now without MWD.
Even with incresed sig radiuses, a ceptor orbiting you at <3500 m/s in a close orbit is almost impossible for medium guns to hit.

The good part with Dual 180s, is that their huge RoF increases the probability of critical hits, along with better quality hits due to the better tracking against small targets. The bad think is, their RoF eats up a lot of ammo pretty quickly...this is not the weapon of choice to rat-in or to chew-off huge buffers/tanks...as an anti-frig weapon works perfect tho.

The key for a Vaga was and still is, manually flying AWAY from an incoming ceptor, thus lowering the transversal speed considerably and making it easier for you to track...the Vaga is a ship designed for ranged fights - even against smaller ships.
Now that the speed gap between the average ceptor and the average vaga hugely favours the ceptors, Vaga pilots should never forget it.

And I tend to think the Med Neut is not useless...it wasn't before QR, it isn't now that swarms of Inty and AF pilots roam systems to try out their new "signature tanks" packing scrams. I tend to think it as a last solution weapon, and 1 - maybe 2 - cycles is all you get before hurting yourself more than the frig, but that's usually enough and it's not like a web would have a better chance saving you when you are finally scrammed...

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.12.07 09:49:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 07/12/2008 10:15:14
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 07/12/2008 09:50:59

Quote:
Now that the speed gap between the average ceptor and the average vaga hugely favours the ceptors, Vaga pilots should never forget it.


Well, this was the case before the patch, nothing really changed there.

Some very expensive vagas could outrun t2 fit ceptors before patch, and you didnt see that many really expensive fitted ceptors as people dont like to put 100mill in rigs and a clone worth billions on a frig that can get smartbombed or one-shot by a lucky BS turret.

Interceptors are even more disposable than they were before patch, but now that it isnt worth it pushing a HAC to extreme levels anymore, one could say they gained ground, I doubt it amounts to much tho.


Quote:
And I tend to think the Med Neut is not useless...it wasn't before QR, it isn't now that swarms of Inty and AF pilots roam systems to try out their new "signature tanks" packing scrams. I tend to think it as a last solution weapon, and 1 - maybe 2 - cycles is all you get before hurting yourself more than the frig, but that's usually enough and it's not like a web would have a better chance saving you when you are finally scrammed...



Lots different opinions on this, I personally dont think the neut is a good choice, as its useless most of the time, and in that specific scenario (scrammed and webbed by ceptor/AF), it only really works well together with a web anyway.

It is seen as a last resort option, but imo if I wind up in a situation where I needed it I'd not want to cap myself out in the vaga.

I'll rather keep my warriors for this purpose and only release them when I'm really in trouble, worked fine so far.

Hauleralt0002
Posted - 2008.12.08 22:57:00 - [17]
 

The neut is a must I think to make you be able to 100% kill any frig. There are some frigs that can tank a set of warrior 2s.


That being said what do you think the last mid slot should be?

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:22:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 09/12/2008 04:27:26
I usually go with a t2 assault launcher, also tried heavy missile and HAMs but liked the light missiles best in the end for various reasons, them helping against frigates is one of those.

Even got a few precisions in cargo (I could still go 2.9k with them loaded), but never actually fired one as I figure the difference to faction lights is rather small.



I see how the neut can be useful against well tanked frigs, but thats not something I couldnt handle without, or would sacrifice my precious cap for.

Most frigates that come to mind that are able to tank that good would lack the slots to fully tackle me anyway, giving the option to reduce transversal and smoke them with the ACs.

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.12.09 04:27:00 - [19]
 

One reason I use the 2pt scram, makes any frigate within range die so fast.

Solid Prefekt
Haven Front
Posted - 2008.12.10 16:41:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Lots different opinions on this, I personally dont think the neut is a good choice, as its useless most of the time, and in that specific scenario (scrammed and webbed by ceptor/AF), it only really works well together with a web anyway.


Disagree. After the patch I fitted a Neut and so far I have had 2 Intys try to tackle me, one doing it Solo. Both died quickly and I did not have a web fitted. And I have barely taken the Vaga out as I have been flying the Muninn/Rapier much more. It seems that T2 AB fitted Frigs get all wet when they see a HAC now as they want to go tackle it to show off their new buffs.

And it is easier to use a Neut now as the MWD now uses less cap. 2 pumps of the Neuts is all you need to take down any T2 frig. With no juice they can't kill your MWD nor can they use their AB. You just start to pull away (which reduces their transversal) and they die QUICKLY. Or just have your Warriors take care of them.

At this moment I am sold on fitting a Neut on a Vaga as I would have died in one of those engagements had I fitted a missile launcher.

P'uck
Posted - 2008.12.12 06:14:00 - [21]
 

I'm going out on a limb here, I never flew vagas, but I'd say SOME sort of frig defense sub 10k (other than drones) is really beneficial.

I'd say, pick either a web or a neut... and since I'd deem the medslot more useful, I'd probably pack a neut, but hey, what do I know.


 

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