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blankseplocked Would birth control in society ever be necessary/ethical?
 
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2008.12.06 17:06:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Arianhod
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
Is it just me or is Shanzem getting on anyone elses nerves?
Just you I think.


Nah I think he annoys alot of people, myself included.

Originally by: Jona Picroft
Being a devout Anglican, I see this issue through a different light. The very first commandment in the bible was "be fruitful and multiply". So of course we have an obligation to follow that command. Not only to replace ourselves but to also add to the next generation. This is not the problem though
The problem occurs in the complete ignorance of true marriage. To be married a husband and wife must permanently commit themselves to each other. Divorce is sometimes necessary of course, but it's still too easy. The - once the warm fuzzy feeling is gone I guess it's time to move on - mentality. Hate to bring out another quote from the bible but, John 4: 18 shows that if you can't do it right the first time you shouldn't be getting remarried over and over again. Sex is just too easy to come by. Heck many don't even worry about marriage and just have at it whenever they can snag someone else. Those same people then wonder why they are so unhappy and feel so worthless. To me it's because they are not fulfilling their intended purpose.

The problem of over-population is because of this over abundance of sex. This is so because of a lack of fore-sight by many people. Logic points the way and religion gives us purpose.


I am a Christian, but your statement is invalid.

Most, if not all, of the commandments in the early old Testimate/Torah were there for specific times. Things like not eating pigs because they were unhealthy. Many of the commandments were to increase numbers of people on the Earth, especially the Hebrew nation which were tiny.
Today, we have healthcare and alot less war and famine, so there are too many of us. Previously these things kept population down so people could and did have families of 10. Just a couple hundred years ago there were only 250 million people on the planet, now we are in the billions.

Cierejai
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.06 17:21:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
Otherwise I think the issues in our society are only going to keep repeating themselves, generation after generation, until it overwhelms all else.


As long as bleeding hearts and vocal minorities run the show anyway. Equal rights imply everyone is equal, giving anyone a leg up because they aren't white skinned defeats the purpose of equality.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2008.12.06 17:33:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/12/2008 17:35:32

Originally by: Cyprus Black
The Mexican culture promotes having as many children as humanly possible with total disregard to the financial and social burden it causes.

Even if some countries actively maintain population controls, there will always be third world countries that will outright refuse to do so.


They have their own methods... the machete. I cant think of a place on Earth where I would rather not be than in some third world country where entire villages get butchered or worse.

Xrak
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.12.06 17:43:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Jona Picroft
Being a devout Anglican, I see this issue through a different light. The very first commandment in the bible was "be fruitful and multiply". So of course we have an obligation to follow that command. Not only to replace ourselves but to also add to the next generation. This is not the problem though
The problem occurs in the complete ignorance of true marriage. To be married a husband and wife must permanently commit themselves to each other. Divorce is sometimes necessary of course, but it's still too easy. The - once the warm fuzzy feeling is gone I guess it's time to move on - mentality. Hate to bring out another quote from the bible but, John 4: 18 shows that if you can't do it right the first time you shouldn't be getting remarried over and over again. Sex is just too easy to come by. Heck many don't even worry about marriage and just have at it whenever they can snag someone else. Those same people then wonder why they are so unhappy and feel so worthless. To me it's because they are not fulfilling their intended purpose.

The problem of over-population is because of this over abundance of sex. This is so because of a lack of fore-sight by many people. Logic points the way and religion gives us purpose.


If God existed we wouldn't have this problem. So take your religious bs and gtfo.

The trouble is we need to even out the parenting problem, i.e. we need to encourage the people not having any kids to have 1-2 kids, and the ones having more then 3+ kids to stop. A simple adjustment to the benefits system would go along way I think, increase help for first time mothers but significantly reduce the amount received for any child beyond the 3rd.

Also it is important not to just get an image in our minds that all lower-class mothers are bad or even the majority, or that the kids will always grow up to be delinquents. The problem is best viewed without prejudice where every one is even. Having 1million mothers looking after 1.5million kids, is going to end up better then 0.5million mothers looking after 3 million kids.

Gnomes Rock
Posted - 2008.12.06 17:50:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Shanzem
hell yes, this is a just cause.

if intelligence is genetic, why do we keep idiots alive, there a burden on society your country and humanity.

Any normal intelligent person would see that, and thus would support having them sterilized and killed.

Geeks if your geeks do all of that, what does the rest of humanity do? why is it your always looked down by other social groups as scum?.


can we sterilize 90% of humanity now... there useless. geeks can do everything they can do and more.

i really am seeing a no brainier to letting anything of lesser quality exist.


Go die in a fire you piece of filth.

Dred 'Morte
New European Regiment
Blade.
Posted - 2008.12.06 18:02:00 - [36]
 

Have you ever tried thinking about this from a purely economic viewpoint?

May I suggest that the problem may be Walfarism?

Before, people had children, took good care of the, so that later, the now adult (previously children) would take care of the now elderly parents. It basicly worked.

Now we have a welfare system that depends on population growth (otherwise you have less and less adults paying the retirement of more and more elderly), yet promotes two types of problems: either you try having a better quality of life by having less children (or none at all) or by having lots of them for the sole purpose of the benefits. Since your retirement is "assured" you don't even have to worry about your children loving you as you won't depend on them when you're old.

In the old system, there was "freedom and love", but many flaws, of corse.
In the new one, there is force and greed, less flaws on the short term, and I believe, more on the long run.

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.12.06 18:09:00 - [37]
 


5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2008.12.06 19:44:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 06/12/2008 19:52:21

Ok after going away and giving a lot of thought of what my own opinions are and watching the great videos some of you posted (that bacteria in a bottle metaphor was certainly alarming) I've come to some personal conclusions.

I think some of the idea routes I was going down were a bit far fetched at least in our present time and I needed to be a bit more down to earth and realistic in my approach.

As already raised by Shanzem, me nor anyone else I think are trying to label anyone else as not deserving to live or reproduce. What we are really after I think is to try and retain order and balance in our society while at the same time trying to coexist in harmony with nature and the environment.

Same applies to problem children, I would prefer to concentrate that bad children will usually be bad due to bad role models and avoid any genes debate altogether is I don't think it's relevant usually, we're not trying to create a society of perfect physical specimens or braniacs, just one with reason and order where there is resources and plenty for everyone, the only reason I brought it up is as mentioned before, I can see what looks like a potential massive imbalance in it's early days that will only amplify many times over in current trends.

Our differences are what make us special and I vehemenantly oppose any form of selective breeding, part of the reasoning why I oppose the recent ideas of UK having a DNA database of everybody as I believe it's the possible start of a slippery slope down that route.

I agree with those that have mentioned that Governments should not be able to play God with their lives, they can't even be trusted to abuse every bill they are constantly passing that erodes our freedoms piece by piece.

Trying to be realistic, I think the best thing so say was impose a reasonably lax child limit if needed, just to try and guide things gently in the right direction.

The problem with setting these sorts of rules though are enforcing them. Ideally I would only reserve sterilising individuals who have proven to be abhorrent parents to their current children as a way of stopping them from producing more and doing the same to them.

What I would add to a child limit is while I absolutely draw the line here, I think parents should be allowed to choose the sex of their baby if they're on the verge of exhausting their child limit, let's say the child limit is 4 and they've had 3 girls or 3 boys, they can balance their families with the last one. I've grown quite sympathetic to such parents over time and I think it would create far less opposition in the long run to any imposed child limit as people go to any lengths to have that son or daughter they're missing.



Shanzem
Minmatar
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.12.06 20:09:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: Shanzem
hell yes, this is a just cause.

if intelligence is genetic, why do we keep idiots alive, there a burden on society your country and humanity.

Any normal intelligent person would see that, and thus would support having them sterilized and killed.

Geeks if your geeks do all of that, what does the rest of humanity do? why is it your always looked down by other social groups as scum?.


can we sterilize 90% of humanity now... there useless. geeks can do everything they can do and more.

i really am seeing a no brainier to letting anything of lesser quality exist.


Go die in a fire you piece of filth.


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Its true though, Razz Intelligent have better sperm



Gnomes Rock
Posted - 2008.12.06 22:23:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Shanzem


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Its true though, Razz Intelligent have better sperm





Why are you assuming you qualify as "intelligent enough to live", or that all your family qualify, or that your children would qualify.

The very fact that you're suggesting this shows that you don't think things through and are a fool.

My point that you should die in a fire still stands.

Shanzem
Minmatar
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.12.06 22:35:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: Shanzem


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Its true though, Razz Intelligent have better sperm





Why are you assuming you qualify as "intelligent enough to live", or that all your family qualify, or that your children would qualify.

The very fact that you're suggesting this shows that you don't think things through and are a fool.

My point that you should die in a fire still stands.


Sigh Rolling EyesWink

IQ is inherited, suggests twin study

Gnomes Rock
Posted - 2008.12.06 22:46:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Shanzem


Sigh Rolling EyesWink

IQ is inherited, suggests twin study


"suggests"

Actually, nevermind, i'm not arguing with you anymore. You're a complete idiot if you really think your idea is a good one. Totally worthy of that GoonSwarm ticker.

Shanzem
Minmatar
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.12.06 23:07:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Shanzem on 06/12/2008 23:10:35
Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: Shanzem


Sigh Rolling EyesWink

IQ is inherited, suggests twin study


"suggests"

Actually, nevermind, i'm not arguing with you anymore. You're a complete idiot if you really think your idea is a good one. Totally worthy of that GoonSwarm ticker.


Hay just wait until you have your society tell`s you that you are a genius LaughingWink


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