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Dakt NiRuthgar
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Posted - 2008.12.19 06:11:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Toldos Leafkicker

Watch out for those Amarr traders, they move in quickly. Someone tore apart my control on an item in less than a week (three cheers for the Orca patch). I do get great profit margins from supplying "luxury goods" to smaller markets, but I suppose I'm missing something, since I rarely make all that much in the long run.

The passive income is nice, though.


What do you mean by "luxury goods"?

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.19 13:23:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Snasty
Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger?

Yes.



And just to drive it home, I toyed around with some of the builder roles we have setup and there really is no work around.

You'll have to separate things between your regular hangers and high sec hang.

Galimbu
Posted - 2008.12.19 15:48:00 - [93]
 

Kind of a weird question but as a new hauler/trader I keep seeing this:

Why are courier contracts created with a collateral that is far, far, far more than the worth of the goods being moved?

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.19 16:10:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Galimbu
Kind of a weird question but as a new hauler/trader I keep seeing this:

Why are courier contracts created with a collateral that is far, far, far more than the worth of the goods being moved?


To make sure you don't steal the stuff

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.12.19 16:14:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Galimbu
Kind of a weird question but as a new hauler/trader I keep seeing this:

Why are courier contracts created with a collateral that is far, far, far more than the worth of the goods being moved?


There is differences to valuations too, Person A might value Trit at 3 Isk per unit because that is what they could get now on buy order. A person manufacturing from that trit might make an equivalent og 4.5 isk per unit including profit from good produced, their production stops without said minerals so they dont want to lose them and if the courier get ganked on route they would still want their 4.5 per unit.

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2008.12.20 06:04:00 - [96]
 

Nice work in here so far, bring on your questions.

Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
The Bohemians
Posted - 2008.12.20 12:07:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Snasty
Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger?

Yes.



And just to drive it home, I toyed around with some of the builder roles we have setup and there really is no work around.

You'll have to separate things between your regular hangers and high sec hang.


OK, so be it then I guess. Thanks for looking at this for me though, appreciated as always..

Mohram
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.12.20 13:13:00 - [98]
 

So when people buy up all of one resource in a region and make new sell orders for more money, are they banking that no one has surplus stock they can dump onto the market?

Mohram
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.12.20 13:16:00 - [99]
 

Oh, and at what point can this become stickied? It's been 3 weeks and it's only dropped off the front page a couple times.

But I guess if that's the case it doesn't need a sticky. Nevermind, carry on.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.20 20:51:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Mohram
So when people buy up all of one resource in a region and make new sell orders for more money, are they banking that no one has surplus stock they can dump onto the market?


Yes, generally speaking when doing so you'll assume for a period of whatever the build time is that people will be working off limited inventory and or time in importing goods.

This works well in regions where the main hubs are technically outliers from other major hubs. Dod to Ours to Jita for instance.

So I'll buy every single Ishtar on the market and resell at a 15% mark up knowing that I have at least 3 days before anyone can make a significant impact on the inventory there.

Macita DePuerco
Posted - 2008.12.20 20:58:00 - [101]
 

Now I'm not new to the game but have never devled into the courier part of the game nor do I know of any one else that has either.

I understand the potential dangers when accepting a contract to courier a parcel from player owned station to player owned station.

However, when that is not the case and both points are npc owned stations
If player A issues a contract say for 500,000.00, with 20mill as collateral, is it possible for player A to have a pirate alt, that simply ambushes your frieghter prior to reaching your destination even if at the risk of sucide from local authorities and player A collects the collateral.

If this scenario is possible or common, and since the game is also an attempted at real life (so to speak) is their any insurance that the courier can take out such as cargo insurance that only applies when taking a contract.

Or may be there is some aspect of the courier contract that I am missing when I look at these contracts I note that package contents are not described I have also seen what apears as suspicious contract where its npc station to station but the contents weight is 30m3 and pay 200k isk but cary a ***ping 65mill colateral and only 5 jumps apart and all in high sec .7 and above.

I ask all this because I am tyrully interested in this field but their realy is little that apears from site search regarding this "Courier, courier scams, etc etc"

I thank you for your respponce and help.

Collos

Diedra Kellin
Xi-XaX Enterprises
Posted - 2008.12.22 18:41:00 - [102]
 

1- Yes - anything is possible, but really the odds are reduced, especially if you are smart and do some research into the issuer. Once you've been doing this for a while, you'll get to know the big logistics companies and their contracting schedule/routes.
2 - No - there is no insurance. The bigger threat, from the big-picture aspect of EvE, is actually you, the hauler stealing, hence the crazy high collateral.
3 - Not that unusual. Sometimes the items may be BPOs or something else small but very valuable.

Fly safe.

DiDi

Dakt NiRuthgar
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Posted - 2008.12.23 22:05:00 - [103]
 

I have gathered from research I've been doing on this forum that Nonni is a trade hub of the Lonetrek region, but as of late have seen little activity in high volume goods that trade in the MAJOR trade hubs at this particular location.

Do the location of outlier trade hubs shift often?

Also - what sort of methods do people use to keep an eye on trends between multiple regions? i fear the answer is multi-client alts....... a non-option for myself unfortunately =(

Also, I'm having a hard time figuring out how low is too low with respect to volume of transactions on a particular good. For example, if I see that Hammerhead's sell at a volume of 150 in Lontrek, but then compare that with a bunch of other goods and realize that in fact 150 is much higher than most other drone types, would I then possibly consider it as a good item to move if there is a profit in it? Or is 150 transactions per day too low volume to really get any sort of good deal?

Also, since my capital is low, should I gauge success of a trade moves based on percentage gains or on absolute value gains?

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2008.12.24 18:26:00 - [104]
 

Could I encourage someone to answer the above question(s) please? Thanks!

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.25 05:12:00 - [105]
 

I'll shoot, it'll be quick and dirty though, Someone else can expound on it.

Yes at times the outlier trade locations will shift on you, generally speaking what you'll see is an ebb and flow from lvl 1 mission running locations to lvl 4 mission running locations. I think in Lonetrek.. if my memory serves me right, you'll want to track down the lvl 2 through 4 agents for both Navy and RSS.

At times you'll also see a shift as people move operations between entry points, as not all low sec entry points are single choke holds. There are multi entry points into Venal if Im remembering correctly, so you'll see increase and decrease in trade accordingly as people shift between locations.

A third one to track are RnD, lesser attention is paid but the research remains the same. As datacore prices shift, people will grind out missions for the respective corps that offering the highest rewards for each science area. You'll want to get on the eve agent search and narrow it down for your region. For instance I think in Lonetrek, Nonni benefits from having both a mid level RnD corp, low sec entry point, and a decent quality lvl 4 agent (someone will correct me if Im wrong)

When it comes to volume it really does depend on how willing you are to sit on stock. A good indicator of how long you'll want to sit on any given item is to take a look at its build speed. How long would it take for you to build an item of the same? In my honest opinion you don't want to hold onto anything that much longer, but at the same time if you can have a constant turn over, without excess inventory build up there is nothing wrong with a low margin.

The reason I mention build time, is all to often its easy for a new trader to get caught up in the margin, or the apparent volume just to have a budding industrialist flood the market with product and leave you sitting high and dry on a stack of inventory that'll take you weeks or months to sell.

When your capital is low, focus on margin and margin alone. Personally I would look at high level meta market. Maximize your returns and you can worry about volume/movement once your capital grows. You'll get to a point where you can care little about 800m sitting in escrow for a single item. But right now having 10m tied up in escrow with a 20m wallet is pretty significant. Get your wealth moving with maximum return possible.

Dakt NiRuthgar
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Posted - 2008.12.25 05:40:00 - [106]
 

Aye. Thanks for the response. Doing some more experiments, and the most recent one that i tried seems to be working reasonably well - thanks to some of those links in the stickies... don't know how I missed that one >_<

Lady Valory
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.12.25 11:34:00 - [107]
 

Why do traders put up 50 items at X, then just 1 or 2 items of the SAME thing at X minus 1isk? How can they afford to tie up and micro manage all their trade slots that way?

Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2008.12.25 15:32:00 - [108]
 

You can look at it 2 ways - Scare tactic (I have waaaaay more market slots than you dont mess with me) or an ease of only managing 1 price while other stock is still up on the market so just in case while you are away, it still sells while the adjusted price sells quickly, the other stock is still available once the .01 isk game product sells.

Also to the untrained it makes it appear there are more sellers and there by a new trader will think to look elsewhere for a more opportune station to sell from.

Joseph Shephard
Posted - 2008.12.25 16:19:00 - [109]
 

Valory, I break my orders like that for several reason, some of which have already been mentioned by Athre. There are three main reasons for me:

1) If I price my entire stock to beat your price, you might decide you are impatient and you will price your entire order to beat me. So, instead of trying to sell 1000 afterburners cheaper than you, I might only sell... 17 and hope that you are patient enough to let me sell those. Then, after I do sell them, I will price another 17 below you. It's just playing on people's sense of time.

2) If I have multiple orders, I can update my prices more frequently than every 5 minutes. Hence, in high volume markets in Jita, I might have 4 sell orders of one product. That way, no matter how diligently you change your prices, I have at least one order that I can price to beat you. That way, you generally get demoralized and decide that you would rather go to bed or run a mission rather than try to compete with me directly.

3) Lastly, its not too uncommon for someone to buy an extrordinarly large number of some item. So, maybe I want to sell 17 afterburners quickly because I want to have some cash on hand to make trades or buy minerals for manufacturing, but I want to leave the majority of my stock prices higher in case someone decides they need 3000 afterburners. I usually sell a couple dozen of my modules per day at a competitive price, and then about once per week someone comes and buys my entire stock (for god only knows what reason).

Hope some of that helps in addition to what Athre was able to say.

Best,
J. Shepard

Joseph Shephard
Posted - 2008.12.25 16:21:00 - [110]
 

And no, I definitely do not trade or manufacture afterburners. They scare me. Too much fire.

Dakt NiRuthgar
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Posted - 2008.12.26 22:37:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Joseph Shephard
Valory, I break my orders like that for several reason, some of which have already been mentioned by Athre. There are three main reasons for me:

1) If I price my entire stock to beat your price, you might decide you are impatient and you will price your entire order to beat me. So, instead of trying to sell 1000 afterburners cheaper than you, I might only sell... 17 and hope that you are patient enough to let me sell those. Then, after I do sell them, I will price another 17 below you. It's just playing on people's sense of time.

2) If I have multiple orders, I can update my prices more frequently than every 5 minutes. Hence, in high volume markets in Jita, I might have 4 sell orders of one product. That way, no matter how diligently you change your prices, I have at least one order that I can price to beat you. That way, you generally get demoralized and decide that you would rather go to bed or run a mission rather than try to compete with me directly.

3) Lastly, its not too uncommon for someone to buy an extrordinarly large number of some item. So, maybe I want to sell 17 afterburners quickly because I want to have some cash on hand to make trades or buy minerals for manufacturing, but I want to leave the majority of my stock prices higher in case someone decides they need 3000 afterburners. I usually sell a couple dozen of my modules per day at a competitive price, and then about once per week someone comes and buys my entire stock (for god only knows what reason).

Hope some of that helps in addition to what Athre was able to say.

Best,
J. Shepard

That was a great tip shepard! Thanks for that one... help me win out on a few buy orders in a 0.01 ISk war I got into last night :D

Lord Zarcam
Amarr
Posted - 2008.12.31 01:19:00 - [112]
 

Free bump with a quick question.

Looking for some feedback on using my unused alt's to collect market info in Jita or elsewhere. I was considering using one and basing them in Jita that I could log into when I need market info instead of traveling there. But Jita is only 10 jumps away from my base system and takes 15 to 20 minutes to travel one way. I'm curious if anyone else has attempted this and what were the results? Or is this a silly waste of an alt?

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.12.31 01:52:00 - [113]
 

You're not using it now, so you're already "wasting" the slot, so why not? if you ever need the space, just reroll it. I "wasted" one to check jita prices & stick up a couple of buy orders, it's useful.

I guess watching people lose potential profit and screwing up the market in the process due to sheer stupidity is an occupational hazard, but for newer traders who don't yet have the capital to massage their market areas & don't have the cushion to sit back & wait, it gets easier to deal with, right? :)

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.31 03:56:00 - [114]
 

What Von said, eventually you might just get to a point where profits can justify spending the isk on GTC for throw away market slaves.

Lord Zarcam
Amarr
Posted - 2008.12.31 22:58:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
What Von said, eventually you might just get to a point where profits can justify spending the isk on GTC for throw away market slaves.


OH? Something I haven't thought of yet. Nice idea. Thanks Von and Kazzac!

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.01.03 18:37:00 - [116]
 

Thanks guys/girls for giving up some of your time to answer questions, much appreciated. Bring on your questions.

Lord Zarcam
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.03 19:31:00 - [117]
 

I want to say a special Thanks to all those who have answered my questions and have helped others. This morning I open EVEMon to see about to break 1 BILLION isk's in my wallet for the very first time! (I've had a good week station trading) All because of good tips I have read in here and then put to use. 30 days ago I broke 500 Million and thought what a milestone, but I re-invested it (as I will with this I have currently) to put it back to work. Now I'm about to break that next milestone!

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

morbius665
Posted - 2009.01.03 22:51:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: morbius665 on 03/01/2009 22:51:57
Just curious about buy orders.. If everyone keeps playing the .01 game whats to stop it from getting all the way up to the sell prices?? How come this hasnt happened allready or what keeps it in check?

And congrats Lord Z. Hope I can follow suit.

ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.01.04 01:01:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: morbius665
Edited by: morbius665 on 03/01/2009 22:51:57
Just curious about buy orders.. If everyone keeps playing the .01 game whats to stop it from getting all the way up to the sell prices?? How come this hasnt happened allready or what keeps it in check?

And congrats Lord Z. Hope I can follow suit.
Because when it does reach the sell orders, they buy from the sell orders.

Cpt Jacqui
Posted - 2009.01.04 18:38:00 - [120]
 

Hey there got a question.

Im new to trading and made only a few Orders in the last days.
I Made some business in Jita -> Rens but would like to get away from Jita market (0,000001 ISk Stupid-Wars)
So ive looked at EvE-Central for some Trading routes but found only "good" routes by Jita -> X. (Good= with my Cargo more then 100k profit per Jump or so)

I want routes like this: X <---> X So both ways to get stuff around. But at EVE-Central there was not much like this.

Do the most people finds those route by their own or is buisiness in outer Regions basically small?
(Outer regions im mean Systems outside of the standart market Hubs like Jita / Rens / Ammer etc. Something like Tash Murkon region or so.)

Maybe its good to know that i only have Starting alts for the Market orders and my main with Iteron 3 to move stuff. But Industrial char is on his way thru the Skills with a Freighter on long term plan. (3 month or so).
But wanted to make some money to get Industrial things and the Freighter getting started.
My starting money is around 200 or 250Mio ISK... + Some ISK in Bonds and shares but not much.


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