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Cheopis
Amarr
One Stop Mining Shop
One Stop Research
Posted - 2008.12.14 03:29:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria


Manipulation is the effort you exert using your inventory and orders in an attempt to move prices one way or the other for your benefit, whether that be profit or lowered cost for building.

There are many ways to actually manipulate (see my post regarding trit some time back... thanks everyone for dumping inventory Laughing ) but in the end its about using various skills as a trader to move prices in your favor.


So as a concrete example - if I want to lower the prices of trit - I would stockpile trit over a long period of time and start flooding the market with trit to affect the overall market price of trit? (or start major mining operations to convert roids into trit on the market?)

Or if I want to increase prices, to use margin traded buy orders to set up inflated buy orders so that people will sell me at high prices. If there are enough of these, then you might be able to fool the rest of the community that this is what the prices should be, and watch it climb?

Or (simply) buy all the sell orders and repost at higher prices?


You have described here the basic ingame economic methods of market manipulation, however there are also psychological methods as well. You can use this forum and a couple others (depending on what you are trying to manipulate) to convince people to buy or sell commodities.

Svetlana Kyresh
Posted - 2008.12.14 03:46:00 - [62]
 

If I am warping in a transport ship fitted with a Covert Ops cloaking device, and an interdictor pulls me out of warp, will I remained cloaked or get de-cloaked (assuming nothing is within 2km of me)?

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.14 04:16:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Svetlana Kyresh
If I am warping in a transport ship fitted with a Covert Ops cloaking device, and an interdictor pulls me out of warp, will I remained cloaked or get de-cloaked (assuming nothing is within 2km of me)?


You stay cloaked, allowing you easy time enough to get out of the bubble, warp to a safe spot or another gate and wait for the camp to move.

Enihcam Xes
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:37:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Enihcam Xes on 15/12/2008 19:37:24
This thread needs a bump, but a sticky would be better.

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2008.12.16 04:13:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Enihcam Xes
Edited by: Enihcam Xes on 15/12/2008 19:37:24
This thread needs a bump, but a sticky would be better.


I think a sticky might be a bad idea as I think this thread works in ways the stickies don't. But the bump is appreciated.


Bring on your questions.

Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
The Bohemians
Posted - 2008.12.16 16:04:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Snasty on 16/12/2008 16:07:12
Quick one...

1st - Does the Contracts Manager Role in corp management also give by default access to the deliveries in all stations..?

2nd - Where is the best place to ask corp management related questions, it isnt CAOD thats for sure...!!

Thanks in advance for your wisdom...


amarrcommander
Posted - 2008.12.16 16:16:00 - [67]
 

Why is CCP a bunch of idiots and moved Hexxx Retirement thread to Out Of Pod but at same time didnt look at the persons post that reported him to notice that it was out of line and nuke that as well?


Treelox
Posted - 2008.12.16 16:26:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: amarrcommander
Why is CCP a bunch of idiots and moved Hexxx Retirement thread to Out Of Pod but at same time didnt look at the persons post that reported him to notice that it was out of line and nuke that as well?




While I dislike Taikun as much as most of us do, he was right. These retirement threads by definition dont belong here in MD. While it would be nice that they stay in MD, they are not a "legit" MD thread by CCP's forum organizational overview.

The words Taikun chose were indeed tasteless, and yet some of us use similar stuff to berate nubbins who post foolish threads here in MD. It is just that some of us see Hexxx as a bit of a hero that we feel it was uncalled for.

Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.16 17:57:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Letifer Deus on 16/12/2008 18:02:42
Question from a person that knows very little about markets.

I've noticed something odd every once in a while when buying things (usually in Jita). I will buy a few units out of a larger order, but the number available from that order does not go down. Or I will buy all units in a sell order and the order will not disappear. Out of curiosity I tried buying the same single unit sell order out and it let me do it again and again. What's the deal?

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:04:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Snasty
Edited by: Snasty on 16/12/2008 16:07:12
Quick one...

1st - Does the Contracts Manager Role in corp management also give by default access to the deliveries in all stations..?

2nd - Where is the best place to ask corp management related questions, it isnt CAOD thats for sure...!!

Thanks in advance for your wisdom...




1. Yes, but it does not give them access to the corp mgt assets window so they can actually see whats in deliveries. Its a big annoyance, since you need director level access for that.

2. Science and Industry usually however we field plenty of corp mgt related questions here as well.

Treelox
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:08:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 16/12/2008 18:02:42
Question from a person that knows very little about markets.

I've noticed something odd every once in a while when buying things (usually in Jita). I will buy a few units out of a larger order, but the number available from that order does not go down. Or I will buy all units in a sell order and the order will not disappear. Out of curiosity I tried buying the same single unit sell order out and it let me do it again and again. What's the deal?


it is a broker system....

while you may select any order you want, all your doing is selecting the price you pay, the goods will always come from the lowest priced order listed.

Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
The Bohemians
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:13:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Snasty
Edited by: Snasty on 16/12/2008 16:07:12
Quick one...

1st - Does the Contracts Manager Role in corp management also give by default access to the deliveries in all stations..?

2nd - Where is the best place to ask corp management related questions, it isnt CAOD thats for sure...!!

Thanks in advance for your wisdom...




1. Yes, but it does not give them access to the corp mgt assets window so they can actually see whats in deliveries. Its a big annoyance, since you need director level access for that.

2. Science and Industry usually however we field plenty of corp mgt related questions here as well.


Thanks for the reply.

Can I pick your brain a tad more. I can see the annoyance from your point of view, people can collect from deliveries but they may not know where they are, right?

But, in my situation I want to be able to give one member some production roles that will involve a bit of trading, factory management and contracts roles, so, he will be able to collect his contracts, buy orders and production jobs but the corp is "sort of" protected from him also taking everything else unless he visits stations looking for populated deliveries hangers. Correct?

Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:18:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Treelox

it is a broker system....


*facepalms*

Doi. Thanks Laughing

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:29:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Snasty

Thanks for the reply.

Can I pick your brain a tad more. I can see the annoyance from your point of view, people can collect from deliveries but they may not know where they are, right?

But, in my situation I want to be able to give one member some production roles that will involve a bit of trading, factory management and contracts roles, so, he will be able to collect his contracts, buy orders and production jobs but the corp is "sort of" protected from him also taking everything else unless he visits stations looking for populated deliveries hangers. Correct?


They will be forced to fly to each station on the assumption or previous knowledge from their journal/transaction/contract history that something is there for them in the deliveries window.

You can as a CEO or director, drop these items into their hanger for pickup as well so that they can see them from their asset window though. This is the way we handle it, taking 20 minutes each week and sorting through the corp assets window and dropping into hanger the items where they are needed. As such, part of the requirements in our trade order system is limiting the orders to individual stations. This helps minimize the amount of sorting required.

But no, the only way they can know where an item is, like they might be used to through their own asset window, is to have director access. Which sorta negates your security on any hangers.

Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
The Bohemians
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:40:00 - [75]
 

Kazzac Elentria, your assistance is appreciated, cheers.

Fly groovy..

Ares91
Posted - 2008.12.16 22:58:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Ares91 on 16/12/2008 22:58:30
I was curious as to how people deal with changing orders in different regions all over EVE, do you have an alt in most regions and what skills do you train on this alt or alts? Or do you just fly about all over EVE changing orders?

DragonRiderTao
Posted - 2008.12.16 23:38:00 - [77]
 

Assess your short days. Design an aspiration. Savor wild pasture.

Ivar Strahm
Posted - 2008.12.16 23:47:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Ares91
Edited by: Ares91 on 16/12/2008 22:58:30
I was curious as to how people deal with changing orders in different regions all over EVE, do you have an alt in most regions and what skills do you train on this alt or alts? Or do you just fly about all over EVE changing orders?


When I had orders across two regions, I placed the orders in border systems so the number of jumps between them were minimal, then hopped back and forth a few times per day in a shuttle. Clearly not the most efficient, and only viable with a small number of adjacent regions, but by trading in the same items, and having those items in my Quick Bar, it took surprisingly little time.

Mind you, though, I really can't recommend this approach. Laughing

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.12.17 06:58:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Ares91
Edited by: Ares91 on 16/12/2008 22:58:30
I was curious as to how people deal with changing orders in different regions all over EVE, do you have an alt in most regions and what skills do you train on this alt or alts? Or do you just fly about all over EVE changing orders?


I have a trade alt who hangs out in Jita doing the station shuffle, but he occasionaly flies around in a souped up executor (little faster than a shuttle and it has much better cap). Tasko carebears the empires in an inty, buying and selling where his whims take him.

Dakt NiRuthgar
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Posted - 2008.12.17 17:22:00 - [80]
 

Hey all.

So I took my first dabble in trying to move some things and failed miserably.

Not so much in the sense that I lost money, but I definitely didn't make much either.

The difficulty I'm having is trying to figure out whether you buy goods for cheap in Jita or Amarr and then move them out to outposts or low sec and sell them for higher - OR if you find cheap goods in these outliers and then bring them back into Jita or Amarr where the buy orders are high and then sell that way. And in the case of the former, how do you deal with the fact that volumes of trade just aren't very high out in the outliers?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not looking for your trade routes or anything - just more information on the nuances of how to research the market.

Diedra Kellin
Xi-XaX Enterprises
Posted - 2008.12.17 18:18:00 - [81]
 

Dakt,

As you said, this was your first time. Keep at it. The key to low-volume sales is to diversify. Don't buy huge batches of something to put up for sale in outliers that then take forever to sell. Instead, find several smaller deals and move them. You want to get your investment ISKage, and hopefuly profit, back quick enough to then support future buys.

F Bronstein
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.12.17 21:34:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar

The difficulty I'm having is trying to figure out whether you buy goods for cheap in Jita or Amarr and then move them out to outposts or low sec and sell them for higher - OR if you find cheap goods in these outliers and then bring them back into Jita or Amarr where the buy orders are high and then sell that way.



stating the obvious, but there is no OR - you'll want to do both, of course. Take one cargo of goods from a hub to the outposts/local trade hubs and return with another full cargo back to the trading hub.

The outliers have certain advantages because of the low trade volume; you can set up 'small' buy orders over a wide spectrum of items and make your trip everytime the total amount bought equals one full cargohold - you won't be as dependent on single items (so you won't have to worry as much about being undercut in one item whilst operating in another region).

Always keep in mind to maximize your ISK/m^3.

Dakt NiRuthgar
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Posted - 2008.12.18 16:21:00 - [83]
 

Roger. We'll take this into account. May just have found a nice little route that could work out well with the advice given.

Thanks y'all :D

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.12.18 16:38:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Midas Man on 18/12/2008 16:39:45
Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar
Roger. We'll take this into account. May just have found a nice little route that could work out well with the advice given.

Thanks y'all :D


Further to this, when I started out, most of my profit came from trading missile launchers in lvl 4 hubs around caldari space.
I would station trade in the hubs, buying eg Advanced 'Limos' Heavy launchers, I could buy them at 500k in the hubs and sell in same station for 1.5-2mil.
I would find that I would gather 2-3times the volume I was able to sell so every so often I would haul my over supply to Jita and dump it there, would still get ~ 1mil per unit.
While in Jita I would stock up on Tech2 mods I knew would sell in the hubs but are much cheap in Jita due to heavy competition.
Once you have a nice pile of Isk and stock you can use it to force the markets in your direction so for a few days before stocking the lvl 4 hubs with tech 2 I would station trade in Jita for limited to no profit just to crash the market to make my purchases cheaper.
These Items are not as lucrative anymore but the principal is the same.

Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
The Bohemians
Posted - 2008.12.18 18:00:00 - [85]
 

A question regarding corp container access & roles: -

Role gives access to query & take from a hanger. Container access it not given, to prevent removal of a whole container. Items are in a station container and locked.

When the attempt to unlock an item is made the error states that the player does not have the equipment config role. Providing that role allows unlocking but is that how it works? Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger?

Assistance appreciated...

I did try to ask this question in Science forum btw, but after 41 views they dont seem to know. A corp specific section is really needed I think, especially when you take into account how bad (or abesnt) the documentation is.

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.12.18 18:25:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Snasty

When the attempt to unlock an item is made the error states that the player does not have the equipment config role. Providing that role allows unlocking but is that how it works? Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger?


Yes, there is a work around but I cannot for the life of me remember it at the moment.

I take this is related to your structuring of your builder roles within two different stations, or hangers?

Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
The Bohemians
Posted - 2008.12.18 18:56:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
I take this is related to your structuring of your builder roles within two different stations, or hangers?

No, not really. Just what I saw as simple hanger access and use of station containers providing an audit as to who took what. Providing the config role isnt the end of the world now, but it would be once the corp launched a POS for example. Forcing me to give everyone a config equipment role just to allow them to take things from hangers simply doesnt seem correct to me. The "take" function/role should be enough.

I have to be doing something wrong.

Anyway, if the answer presents itself to you in your sleep think of me in the morning wont you, cheers...Very Happy

Dakt NiRuthgar
Amarr
Vanguard Frontiers
Posted - 2008.12.19 02:12:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Midas Man

Further to this, when I started out, most of my profit came from trading missile launchers in lvl 4 hubs around caldari space.

These Items are not as lucrative anymore but the principal is the same.



Thanks so much for the tip! I'll try this in Amarr space and see if it works out... I know of some mission hubs in the Domain region.

Originally by: Snasty

No, not really. Just what I saw as simple hanger access and use of station containers providing an audit as to who took what. Providing the config role isnt the end of the world now, but it would be once the corp launched a POS for example. Forcing me to give everyone a config equipment role just to allow them to take things from hangers simply doesnt seem correct to me. The "take" function/role should be enough.

I have to be doing something wrong.



Our corp currently utilizes a shared hanger system. We can take things, out, but we can't modify anything, and if we try to put anything in, it auto locks until a person with equipment config role unlocks it. I don't know how it's set up though. I'll ask my CEO the next time he's on (or have him drop by here and answer your question.)


Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2008.12.19 05:11:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Snasty
Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger?

Yes.

Toldos Leafkicker
Tenichigo Kaigun
Spectrum Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.19 05:46:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar
Originally by: Midas Man

Further to this, when I started out, most of my profit came from trading missile launchers in lvl 4 hubs around caldari space.

These Items are not as lucrative anymore but the principal is the same.



Thanks so much for the tip! I'll try this in Amarr space and see if it works out... I know of some mission hubs in the Domain region.



Watch out for those Amarr traders, they move in quickly. Someone tore apart my control on an item in less than a week (three cheers for the Orca patch). I do get great profit margins from supplying "luxury goods" to smaller markets, but I suppose I'm missing something, since I rarely make all that much in the long run.

The passive income is nice, though.


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