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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.03.03 02:25:00 - [571]
 

Originally by: SencneS
I find it hard to believe that any public entity in the near future will handle the same volume of ISK flow.


Aside from the gambling houses, you mean. =)

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2011.03.03 21:51:00 - [572]
 

Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Aside from the gambling houses, you mean. =)


EOH Has shares? OK so EBANK didn't have shares either... So I'll rephrase.. EOH Pays interest on deposited ISK?

Yes, yes, either has EBANK for the last couple of years though that's what it was designed to do. I guess if you consider any public entity to be anyone performing any type of public service, then Chribba would have to win. But I was refining down to "public entity" as a more MD related term at least some sort of entity that people would generate a return on without having to interact with it. Should have been more specific, sorry about that.

---------
This is not a jab at you Selene or EOH for that matter, I was looking to see if EOH did pay Interest and found something I chuckled over. I would have to say, EBANK could have stood to take a leaf out of EOH Policy here, I mean with this policy EBANK would have been in the black despite Riddic.

"It should also be noted that all accounts that have not been logged onto for 90 days will have their ISK balances wiped (not refunded). The account will continue to stay in our system for record keeping purposes, and may be used again at a later date should a user return."

For those that want to see that - It's in the "Ring Games" Section of EOH Website it's highlighted in Red.

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.03.05 03:10:00 - [573]
 

I didn't really consider the public qualifier before. In that case EBANK would probably win.

The EOH policy of course makes no sense for a bank, unlike a service, but is quite useful for preventing a growth of liability while giving an incentive for users to be self policing.

Moto Akimoto
Posted - 2011.03.05 22:59:00 - [574]
 

I created new shares for my corp so now the shares outstanding = 30,000. I am holding 1,000 in my personal wallet and 29,000 is in the corp wallet. My corp profile shows "Shares 29,000", does this mean that corp profiles only track treasury shares and not total of shares outstanding? Where can I find the shares outstanding for a corp?

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.03.07 00:55:00 - [575]
 

Originally by: Moto Akimoto
I created new shares for my corp so now the shares outstanding = 30,000. I am holding 1,000 in my personal wallet and 29,000 is in the corp wallet. My corp profile shows "Shares 29,000", does this mean that corp profiles only track treasury shares and not total of shares outstanding? Where can I find the shares outstanding for a corp?

A long-standing bug can influence the count of corporation shares shown in the corporation's Show Info window. I believe the ledger of shareholders in the Corporation Wallet should be accurate.

Moto Akimoto
Posted - 2011.03.08 17:56:00 - [576]
 

Thanks for answering my questions.

Here is another one: How many unique items are available through the market interface?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.03.09 08:17:00 - [577]
 

Originally by: Moto Akimoto
How many unique items are available through the market interface?
Thanks in advance for your reply.

According to this table of metadata from EVE-Central, there are 6490 typeids assigned to a marketgroup. I don't have the most recent datadump from CCP handy, so I'm not sure if that's a table based on what has been loaded to EVE-Central or what is available in the Market system. At worst, it's probably a good estimate of total SKUs on the Market.

Moto Akimoto
Posted - 2011.03.16 00:27:00 - [578]
 

What is the max share distribution possible? Unrestricted by the amount of isk in the wallet ofc

Vierego
Vierego's Junk Imports
Posted - 2011.03.16 15:59:00 - [579]
 

Howdy, I read the sticky guide and glanced over a couple guides (and read the title of each thread) and none seem to point me in the right direction.

I'm wondering if it is possible, or there is a program out there, that lets you export the price history/quantity moved.

I have dumper, which gives me a wealth of information, and have jimmy rigged a way to get volmoved for buy and sell using the useful dumper tool. The only problem is, I'm not sure how to calculate for Buy/Sell orders that get created and filled between my market scans. So I thought if I had both reports I could average them out.

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.03.17 01:42:00 - [580]
 

Originally by: Moto Akimoto
What is the max share distribution possible? Unrestricted by the amount of isk in the wallet ofc

According to the Dominion Patch Notes: "The dividend payments are no longer restricted to 2,147,483,64 ISK."

"2,147,483,64" looks an awful lot like a typo of (2 ^ 31) = 2 147 483 648, or thereabouts. If the new limit is 64-bit-based, then the analogous upper bound would be 2^63-ish (roughly 10 ^ 19), and is much, much larger than the total amount of ISK in player hands in New Eden.

Thoraemund
Posted - 2011.03.17 01:49:00 - [581]
 

Originally by: Vierego
I'm wondering if it is possible, or there is a program out there, that lets you export the price history/quantity moved.

I have dumper, which gives me a wealth of information, and have jimmy rigged a way to get volmoved for buy and sell using the useful dumper tool. The only problem is, I'm not sure how to calculate for Buy/Sell orders that get created and filled between my market scans. So I thought if I had both reports I could average them out.

Generally, cache-scraping is the way to get Market History data, cache resource tools such as (or based on) Reverence or libevecache, for example.

Once you have the actual Market History data, you won't need to estimate quantities moved, since you will have the actual figures. For the high, low and mean daily prices in the Market History data, the values are the "massaged" figures that result after outliers have been removed. The exact parameters of this outlier removal have not, to my knowledge, been shared by CCP or determined exactly by players.

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.03.17 02:03:00 - [582]
 

Dagnabbit!

Still, the mild embarrassment of accidentally posting with an alt has to be a lot less than what CCP's pre-EVE Gate "web developers" felt. Imagine the embarrassment of claiming to be a "web developer" and having to admit that despite, literally, years of work on a forum system, it could not store the most basic user preferences from one authenticated session to the next... Ouch!

Moto Akimoto
Posted - 2011.03.29 16:34:00 - [583]
 

What happens to corporate shares owned by a character when the character is deleted? Are the shares returned to the corp by dafault? Do these shares get deducted from "Shares Outstanding" for dividend distributions?

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.03.30 23:45:00 - [584]
 

Originally by: Moto Akimoto
What happens to corporate shares owned by a character when the character is deleted? Are the shares returned to the corp by default? Do these shares get deducted from "Shares Outstanding" for dividend distributions?

I did not biomass a pilot to test this, but according to the patch notes for Build 41736 to 45017 addresses EVE: Trinity Changes and Fixes (2007-12-05): "Shares from terminated characters are now returned to the corporation." And to be clear, I read that to mean that they are returned to the issuing corporation, not the corporation that employs the pilot being bio-massed.

All shares are counted for the purpose of dividend calculations, whether held in the corporation treasury, or by shareholders at large.

Valeroth Kyarmentari
Posted - 2011.03.31 18:33:00 - [585]
 

I skimmed the first dozen pages or so and didn't see this question, so hopefully it wasn't in the last few. An idea, it would be useful for someone to go through and pickout all the questions and answers and put them one document/FAQ.

Question:
I setup a buy order with lets say a 5 jump range.

1. Will that buy order range extend into bordering regions? Or will it stop at the region borders.

2. Will that buy order range take a shorter path through another region? For example, I set a buy order in System A with a range of 5 jumps. I can get to System B (which is in the same region) in 5 jumps if I take a route through a neighbor system, but it would take 8 jumps if I stay in region. Will my buy order extend to it?

Thanks.


Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.03.31 23:15:00 - [586]
 

Originally by: Valeroth Kyarmentari
Question: I setup a buy order with lets say a 5 jump range.

1. Will that buy order range extend into bordering regions? Or will it stop at the region borders.

2. Will that buy order range take a shorter path through another region? For example, I set a buy order in System A with a range of 5 jumps. I can get to System B (which is in the same region) in 5 jumps if I take a route through a neighbor system, but it would take 8 jumps if I stay in region. Will my buy order extend to it?

1. Buy orders will buy only within the region in which they are set.

2. Yes. A couple of years ago, Covert Kitty made a similar inquiry and ended up testing it, reporting the results, and accumulating some support and agreement from other posters.


Originally by: Valeroth Kyarmentari
An idea, it would be useful for someone to go through and pickout all the questions and answers and put them one document/FAQ.

I take it you missed the link to the Market Discussions FAQ in the EVElopedia that is linked at the top of the first post on the first page of this thread? The FAQ was indeed compiled largely from this thread.

If you're content with my answers, I encourage you to take a minute to integrate them into the FAQ. I understand that if you can log in to these forums, you should be able to log in to edit the EVElopedia.

Amar Azaph
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:29:00 - [587]
 

Is there a set of basic steps that a new player should do to try and make some money from the market? In other words, a quick short guide to trading etc?

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.04.12 23:07:00 - [588]
 

Originally by: Amar Azaph
Is there a set of basic steps that a new player should do to try and make some money from the market? In other words, a quick short guide to trading etc?

There is no one-size-fits all guaranteed set of steps that all rookie traders must take on the road to trading success. I.e., there's no magic formula like:
Originally by: South Park, Season 2, Episode 17
Phase 1: Collect Underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit


However, the bottom line does often boil down to something as simple as: "Buy low; sell high."

For further introductions, the Market Resources page on the EVElopedia, linked from the sticky at the top of this forum, does include a selection links to "Newbie Guides and Q&A" resources, right near the top. The Market Discussions FAQ also includes brief overviews of a few styles of trading.

Ender Sparrow
Posted - 2011.04.20 08:09:00 - [589]
 

Where could I place an order to buy into certain corps?

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.04.21 03:46:00 - [590]
 

Originally by: Ender Sparrow
Where could I place an order to buy into certain corps?

Without knowing exactly what sort of buying you want to do, or which corporations are the certain ones that you have in mind, I'm not sure of the best answer, so I will try a few:
  1. there is no official stock exchange (in-game or out-) on which you can buy and sell shares in any NPC or player corporation, nor is there any official debt market;

  2. many offerings (of debt or equity) are launched in threads in the Market Discussions forum itself, and there are scores of offerings that have failed or succeeded and whose merits and failings you will see in those threads (Moto Akimoto recently put some effort into listing many recent offerings in threadID=1487083; to invest in these, generally you must notice the thread and then reply to indicate your interest; note: these are player-run operations, so do not send ISK unless to assess it to be worth the risks of doing so); and

  3. the offerings of a limited number of player corporations are listed on the BSAC Stock Exchange, which bills itself as "EVE's only real-time stock exchange" (Again, this is a player-run operation, so do not send ISK unless you assess it to be worth the risks of doing so).

Tefa Serine
Posted - 2011.04.24 09:24:00 - [591]
 

Edited by: Tefa Serine on 24/04/2011 09:26:41
About marketing skill, i quote this from some guide i found:
"Now with a high enough skill you can manage your profits without ever having to leave the station."

So, normally my mission hub is far away from nearest trade center and i have to transport all of them there to sell. Can i sell them from my mission hub with high enough Marketing skill, or any other skill at all?

Marketing should let me use the assets to sell items i have in remote location. Does it use the buyer position and range of the item or myself? To ask it in relation to the above story; If i leave my items in the mission hub and travel to trade center, can i sell the items to buyers available in trade center?

Procurement skill... I read from wiki that it lets you buy stuff from space without being docked, while that wouldn't be possible without Procurement. I thought you can do that even without the skill anyway? If i have understood right, Procurement only does that you get a second alternative dialog to buy items remotely. Meaning that your buy order will be visible to other people in that location by range of Visibility skill.

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.04.24 15:48:00 - [592]
 

Originally by: Tefa Serine
About marketing skill, i quote this from some guide i found:
"Now with a high enough skill you can manage your profits without ever having to leave the station."

You can "manage your profits without ever having to leave the station" without having any of the remote trade skills, but they do give you more options.


Originally by: Tefa Serine
So, normally my mission hub is far away from nearest trade center and i have to transport all of them there to sell. Can i sell them from my mission hub with high enough Marketing skill, or any other skill at all?

No skill will magically transport the items for you. However, if you use a courier mission to hire someone else to transport the goods to your sales location, you can stay in your mission location the whole time, and after the goods are delivered by the courier mission to your sales location, you can use the Marketing skill to set up remote Sell Orders.


Originally by: Tefa Serine
Marketing should let me use the assets to sell items i have in remote location. Does it use the buyer position and range of the item or myself? To ask it in relation to the above story; If i leave my items in the mission hub and travel to trade center, can i sell the items to buyers available in trade center?

The distance measured in for the Marketing skill is the distance between the pilot and the intended location of the Sell Order. Again, no skill magically moves items such that you can sell items in Station X to an order that buys items only in Station Y.


Originally by: Tefa Serine
Procurement skill... I read from wiki that it lets you buy stuff from space without being docked, while that wouldn't be possible without Procurement. I thought you can do that even without the skill anyway? If i have understood right, Procurement only does that you get a second alternative dialog to buy items remotely. Meaning that your buy order will be visible to other people in that location by range of Visibility skill.

Procurement lets you set standing orders remotely. You can, as you note, buy remotely if you buy things immediately. When you are setting a remote standing Buy Order, the Visibility skill dictates the maximum catchment radius of that Buy Order.

Generally speaking, all orders are visible to all pilots all the time (with exceptions if they have filters turned on, or if an order expired but has not yet been cleared by the server), and you do not need the Visibility skill for that.


From the Market Discussions FAQ on the EVElopedia, linked in the first post of this thread:
Originally by: Market Discussions FAQ
What are the skills for making and modify orders remotely?

The skills Marketing and Procurement allow you to create Asks and Bids (Sell Orders and Buy Orders, respectively) at stations away from your current location (but still in the same region). The Visibility skill allows you to increase the catchment radius when creating remote Bids (Buy Orders). The Daytrading skill allows you to modify the prices of remote orders.

No skills will magically move items from one station to another. If you set a remote bid, the items you buy will be delivered to the station(s) where that bid is effective. To set a remote ask, the item(s) to be sold must already be at the remote location.

This Diagram of EVE Trading Skills for Remote Orders illustrates the effect of these skills.

Monstress
Posted - 2011.05.05 01:18:00 - [593]
 

Hi, as a station trader in Jita, I find myself spending quite a bit of a time updating my buy/sell orders many times a day. However, the amount of UI lag involved in updating orders and market refreshes makes this a discouraging task more and more each day.

Any other station traders out there who stare at nothing but their wallet and market window want to share any hints or tips to make this process less painful?

Thanks

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.05.05 18:34:00 - [594]
 

Originally by: Monstress
Hi, as a station trader in Jita, I find myself spending quite a bit of a time updating my buy/sell orders many times a day. However, the amount of UI lag involved in updating orders and market refreshes makes this a discouraging task more and more each day.

Any other station traders out there who stare at nothing but their wallet and market window want to share any hints or tips to make this process less painful?

Thanks


Not really, if it makes you feel better, everyone suffers from it.

To make it less painful I pay a little game: I see how many orders I can update in an hour and then break my record.

Nypheas Azurai
Posted - 2011.05.06 11:42:00 - [595]
 

Originally by: Tutskii
To make it less painful I pay a little game: I see how many orders I can update in an hour and then break my record.

I have some stamps you might be interested in licking :P

Holdas
Posted - 2011.05.06 14:32:00 - [596]
 

Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5?

Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks!

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:25:00 - [597]
 

Originally by: Holdas
Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5? Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks!

It depends, but probably Accounting 5.


Without Standings

Let's start out ignoring standings:

Broker Relations reduces the Market Order Broker Fee rate by 5% per skill level. (See this Chart illustrating the effect of standings on Market Order Broker Fees for full details.) The initial rate is 1.00% of the gross value of your order (Buy or Sell) when you create a standing order (i.e., any order with a duration longer than "Immediate"). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Market Order Broker Fee from 0.80% to 0.75%.

Accounting reduces the Sales Tax by 10% per skill level. The initial rate is 1.00% of your actual sales, paid when the sale actually takes place (rather than when the order is placed). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Sales Tax from 0.60% to 0.50%.

You say you "mostly sell things", so I am guessing that the value of your standing sell orders is significantly more than the value of your standing buy orders. In this situation, reducing your Sales Tax will be a greater benefit (0.10% > 0.05%).

If you place standing buy orders to acquire goods that you later sell with standing sell orders, then keep in mind you are paying Market Order Broker Fees for two orders in relation to each unit you sell (once when buying, again when selling), so you would see that 0.05% reduction twice (2 0.05 = 0.10%). Now, 0.10% looks a lot like 0.10%, but presumably your buy orders are for a lower gross value than your sell orders ("buy low, sell high", right?), so the 0.05% paid on your buy orders is probably less than 0.05% on your sell orders... so reducing your Sales Tax by 0.10% still has an edge over reducing your Market Order Broker Fees by 0.05%.


Standings

When you add consideration of standings, things can change:

If the faction and corporation of the station where you are placing your standing orders like you (positive standings), then your Market Order Broker Fee rate will be reduced even further. That would make Accounting an even better choice.

If, however, you have significant negative standing where you are trading, the Market Order Broker Fees can get up to as high as 4.00% (instead of 1.00%), and so the benefit of reducing them becomes more significant.

Holdas
Posted - 2011.05.08 05:13:00 - [598]
 

Originally by: Thoraemond
Originally by: Holdas
Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5? Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks!

It depends, but probably Accounting 5.


Without Standings

Let's start out ignoring standings:

Broker Relations reduces the Market Order Broker Fee rate by 5% per skill level. (See this Chart illustrating the effect of standings on Market Order Broker Fees for full details.) The initial rate is 1.00% of the gross value of your order (Buy or Sell) when you create a standing order (i.e., any order with a duration longer than "Immediate"). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Market Order Broker Fee from 0.80% to 0.75%.

Accounting reduces the Sales Tax by 10% per skill level. The initial rate is 1.00% of your actual sales, paid when the sale actually takes place (rather than when the order is placed). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Sales Tax from 0.60% to 0.50%.

You say you "mostly sell things", so I am guessing that the value of your standing sell orders is significantly more than the value of your standing buy orders. In this situation, reducing your Sales Tax will be a greater benefit (0.10% > 0.05%).

If you place standing buy orders to acquire goods that you later sell with standing sell orders, then keep in mind you are paying Market Order Broker Fees for two orders in relation to each unit you sell (once when buying, again when selling), so you would see that 0.05% reduction twice (2 0.05 = 0.10%). Now, 0.10% looks a lot like 0.10%, but presumably your buy orders are for a lower gross value than your sell orders ("buy low, sell high", right?), so the 0.05% paid on your buy orders is probably less than 0.05% on your sell orders... so reducing your Sales Tax by 0.10% still has an edge over reducing your Market Order Broker Fees by 0.05%.


Standings

When you add consideration of standings, things can change:

If the faction and corporation of the station where you are placing your standing orders like you (positive standings), then your Market Order Broker Fee rate will be reduced even further. That would make Accounting an even better choice.

If, however, you have significant negative standing where you are trading, the Market Order Broker Fees can get up to as high as 4.00% (instead of 1.00%), and so the benefit of reducing them becomes more significant.


Excellent answer, thanks!

I pretty much only sell, so accounting is best then. Training that atm in this case. I appreciate the answer and the chart.

Now I just have to grind standings I suppose

Reality G one
Posted - 2011.06.07 21:25:00 - [599]
 

Hey, Sorry if this is the wrong place... but I was wondering if anyone knew any good trading tools?
Like station trading tools, I'm actually giving myself a headache trying to work out if I'm making a profit with Tax fees and brooker fees etc =/

I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want.

Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
Posted - 2011.06.10 00:16:00 - [600]
 

Originally by: Reality G one
Hey, Sorry if this is the wrong place... but I was wondering if anyone knew any good trading tools? Like station trading tools, I'm actually giving myself a headache trying to work out if I'm making a profit with Tax fees and Broker fees etc =/

I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want.

Did you find the list of applications in the Market Resources EVElopedia page linked from the thread that is stickied above this one in Market Discussions? The list is fairly thorough. It seems that you might be interested in something from the "Wallet and Order Management" category.

Depending on factors like (i) how much ISK you are using in your trading, (ii) how many different items you have looked into, you might want to think about this: If you are not sure that your trading is profitable, perhaps there are different items you could trade in that offer a larger margin?


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