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maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 12:45:00 - [571]
 




Originally by: Goumindong
At 27km, Neutron blasters with Null hit for 39.5% of their dps. The 0 DPS point on Neutron blasters hits at around 45km, though the DPS before then is very low.


Originally by: maralt
It is not just "very low" it is utterly insignificant.



Originally by: Goumindong


About as significant as the DPS that lasers do under 10km when blasters are still doing considerable DPS.



Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 12:54:00 - [572]
 

Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 12:59:14
Originally by: Goumindong

Void


We were discussing your claim that lasers do insignificant (by insignificant i mean blaster over 30km amounts) under 10km not void or ammo types. And the graph clearly shows lasers doing significant dmg at 4km+.


Originally by: Goumindong
Also, at 4km, the laser ships are doing worse than the blaster ships are doing at 15km.


Looks to me that the lasers do close to blaster dmg down to 3-4km almost match blasters from 10-11km and massively out dmg the blasters from 11-30km and from 30-60+km they have no competition for comparison.


ZE "BALANCE" BAT COMETH.Very Happy

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 12:59:00 - [573]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 19/12/2008 12:59:35
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Goumindong

Void


We were discussing your claim that lasers do insignificant (by insignificant i mean blaster over 30km amounts) under 10km not void or ammo types. And the graph clearly shows lasers doing significant dmg at 4km+.


You've got the wrong ammo in the guns you nutter. Void is short range blaster ammo. Null is long range blaster ammo. You're the supposed blaster pilot, you should freaking know this.

You have antimatter and void loaded for your comparison and should have antimatter and NULL.

Since this lack of long range ammo for the blasters skews the amount of DPS at higher ranges it skews the entire comments relating to their relative advantages.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 13:02:00 - [574]
 

Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 13:19:45
Originally by: Goumindong


You've got the wrong ammo in the guns you nutter. Void is short range blaster ammo. Null is long range blaster ammo. You're the supposed blaster pilot, you should freaking know this.


OK NUTTERDONG PAY ATTENTION.

WHAT PART OF "THIS DISCUSSION/GRAPH IS ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF LASERS UNDER 10KM" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COMPARING LASERS WITH BLASTERS UNDER 10KM SO VOID AND ANTIMATTER ARE PERFECT FOR THOSE COMPARISONS.

THE GRAPH CLEARLY SHOWS LASERS DOING RELATIVELY GREAT DMG DOWN TO 3-4KM.






ZE "BALANCE" BAT COMETH.Very Happy

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 13:29:00 - [575]
 

Sigh.

"relatively good" has to have something relate to. Without null, without the effectiveness of blasters at longer range, you don't have anything to relate to.

Also, 1 web on the Hyperion, though it does have an extra damage mod which will partially make up for it under 10km and increase DPS above 10km. DPS is going to be pretty comparable to a Mega[which will track better under 10km but have slightly less RAW damage, with only 1 web, the Mega will probably do better in a comparison]

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 13:33:00 - [576]
 

Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 13:52:20


Originally by: Goumindong


"relatively good" has to have something relate to.


The other graph clearly shows that lasers are relatively VERY good at 3-10km "COMPARED" (or "RELATING TO" if you prefer) BLASTERS OVER THE SAME RANGE.

BRB with a graph that has 10-30km and 30-60+km comparisons.........

Hey look the purple blaster line is out dmg'd by the yellow and red lines and closely flowed by the blue line until 15-16km where is is way overtaken by the blue line..... and after 30km..................



Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.






ZE "BALANCE" BAT COMETH.Very Happy

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 13:44:00 - [577]
 

Originally by: maralt


The graph clearly shows that lasers are relatively VERY good at 3-10km "COMPARED" (or "RELATING TO" if you prefer) BLASTERS OVER THE SAME RANGE.

BRB with a graph that has 10-30km and 30-60+km comparisons.........




Relative to blasters at 3-10km, lasers do poorly. That is why the lines for the lasers are far below the lines for the blasters.

Not to mention 1 web on the Hyperion[and/or not a mega with the tracking bonus, since there is no blaster battleship that would load neutrons without a tracking bonus or two webs(or ECCM, but under ECM that produces such a massive increase in real DPS dealt that its not fair to any other ships to really make the comparison)]

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 13:50:00 - [578]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Relative to blasters at 3-10km, lasers do poorly. That is why the lines for the lasers are far below the lines for the blasters.




Do you think ppl are gonna believe such a pathetic lie with the evidence right in front of them.LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 13:53:00 - [579]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 19/12/2008 14:10:49
Edited by: Goumindong on 19/12/2008 13:54:39
Originally by: maralt

BRB with a graph that has 10-30km and 30-60+km comparisons.........

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



Alright lets look at this graph. At about 3km, the Armageddon, the best of the laser ships is doing 600 DPS. The Hyperion is doing about 1100.

The same point on the other side where the Hyperion is doing 600 DPS is about 25km. At that point, the Armageddon is doing. about 900

So we know that at 3km, blasters are doing better relative to lasers than lasers are against blasters.

A 2km, the laser ship is doing some 400 DPS and the blaster ship some 1000. A scale you get right around 30-40km.

And that is even before comparing against typical armor tanks.[Edit: I think the tank is still in there actually, just not showing up on the bottom of the graph]

So yea, the blaster ship has just as much, if not more, advantage over lasers under 10km as the lasers do over blasters past 15.

Now, unless you are claiming that you routinely engage over 30km, then there is literally zero to complain about.

Quote:

Hey look the purple blaster line is out dmg'd by the yellow and red lines and closely flowed by the blue line until 15-16km where is is way overtaken by the blue line..... and after 30km..................


Remember, the question is "by how much"

Also, until 5km, the long range blaster ammo is out-damaging the short range laser ammo.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 14:06:00 - [580]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 19/12/2008 14:07:08
Originally by: maralt
]
Do you think ppl are gonna believe such a pathetic lie with the evidence right in front of them.]


Originally by: Maralt
Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 13:52:20



Originally by: Goumindong
Posted by: Goumindong on 19/12/2008 13:44:00



You edited your post with the graph 6 minutes after I responded. Unless you are claiming that I am pre-cognitive it would not be possible for me to lie about that instance.

edit: You also went back to using the void graph. Remember what we just talked about?

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 14:31:00 - [581]
 

Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 14:50:01



Originally by: Goumindong



Alright lets look at this graph. At about 3km, the Armageddon, the best of the laser ships is doing 600 DPS. The Hyperion is doing about 1100.


@9-10km it out damages the hyperion while doing over 1000dps from around 5km....that is 4km of 1000dps inside 10km and 1km at 1100DPS.

It does 900-1000+dps from 10km-20km while the hyperion does 800ish.

It does 1000-850dps from 20km-30km while the hyperion does 700-400.

It does 850-700dps from 30-40 while the hyperion 400-300.

It does 700-600+ from 40-50km while the hyperion does 200+ (most likely drones)

Its does 600+-400 from 50-60km while the hyperion still does 200+ (most likely drones)



NOW IF YOU WANNA PICK OUT INDIVIDUAL RANGES AND DAMAGES AND COMPARE THEM THAT IS FINE BUT IT DOES NOT SHOW THE TRUTH OF HOW OVERPOWERED PULSE ARE COMPARED TO THE OTHER SYSTEMS.

THE ABOVE FIGURES DO.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 15:14:00 - [582]
 

Did we or did we not just get finished with describing how agility affected the "peak" that exists just at the edge of web range? Did we or did we not just get through explaining the enhanced ability to dictate range that extra webs allow? Did we or did we not just get through explaining that the ranges within web range were effectively harder to move through?

I mean, i could have sworn that was the case.

Also, with regards to drones. The Armageddon; the reason that it does so well in that graph compared to the Abaddon is that it has a 125 cube bay.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 15:22:00 - [583]
 

Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 15:27:48

Originally by: Goumindong
Did we or did we not just get through explaining that the ranges within web range were effectively harder to move through?


So your saying the 1km of 1100dps laser get is actually around 3km and the 4km of 1000dps is actually around 10km?. And lets not get started on overheating shall we considering your ship would have 1100dps dmg at 10-13km..

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 15:57:00 - [584]
 

Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 15:27:48

Originally by: Goumindong
Did we or did we not just get through explaining that the ranges within web range were effectively harder to move through?


So your saying the 1km of 1100dps laser get is actually around 3km and the 4km of 1000dps is actually around 10km?. And lets not get started on overheating shall we considering your ship would have 1100dps dmg at 10-13km..

Did we or did we not just get finished with describing how agility affected the "peak" that exists just at the edge of web range?

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.12.19 17:47:00 - [585]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 19/12/2008 17:51:16
Alright, so i decided to finally make some graphs of my own rather than just explain what is going on. I also figured something that actually showed the differences at lower ranges and didn't bleed together would be nice.

I don't have time to explain what they all mean as i have to get on a plane soon, but i can give a bit of a background.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

This is looking at a passive tanked Hyperion(1 plate, 2 eanm, 1 dc, 2 damage mods, 3 tri-marks) compared to a Passive tanked Armageddon(2 plates, 2 anp[so it has CPU to fit med slots], 1 dc, 3 hs, 3 trimarks) against a weak armor tank[IIRC these are the Myrmidon numbers, which have a slight slant towards laser using ships]. The Hyperion has an extra web, and both have roughly the same Effective Hit Points[around 109k]. This is using the sig/speed profile of the Harbinger. Against a real harbinger you can expect blasters doing a bit better as the Harbinger has more armor, less shield, and no racial kinetic resistances. Against a real myrmidon you can expect lasers doing a bit better as the Myrmidon has a larger signature radius, which makes tracking less important. I used this comparison first because the Armageddon was the ship that had the most DPS in the previous graphs, and it has a much weaker tank than the Abaddon. Such the passive Hyperion was a better fit to compare against it.

As you can see, except for a very small area under 1km, where the Hyperion, with its two webs, should never really find itself with a target, the Hyperion utterly destroys the Armageddon in DPS under 10km. There is a very small blip where the Armageddon is worse, but that blip will almost never be seen in actual play due to how long it takes ships to slow down.

A key point to examine is the DPS at about 5km, where the Hyperion is running some 440 DPS and the Armageddon some 340 DPS[Real]. That type of damage advantage is seen for the Geddon at about 20km, assuming it is carrying faction x-ray.

At 2km, the Geddon is doing some 150 real DPS and the Hyperion some 375 real DPS. That type of discrepancy is not seen for lasers until 33km. Well outside the typical engagement range that we are talking about.

I repeated the comparison, but this time used an Active tanked Hyperion[Ions, single rep, single plate, 1 MFS] against a full plated passive pure EHP/DPS efficient Abaddon.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

As you can see, while the Abaddon does gain faster on the Hyperion due to the Hyperion using lower tier guns, the damage that the Hyperion does in the short range utterly destroys the Abaddon. The ability to active tank and massively increased speed make this comparison for a ship to fight in smaller gangs where ranges can be expected to be lower, much favor the Hyperion.

To note: the Abaddon is using a drone config that it would not typically fit, though if each drop drones for a set of lights, the Hyperion will lose more DPS[Abaddon will go to 2.5 effective heavies, Hyperion will go to 3.2 or so effective heavies a ratio of 1.28, slightly smaller than the graphs 1.33 ratio at 4 heavies for the Hyp to 3 heavies for the Abaddon]

For laughs, i figured i would take a look at what the Passive Hyperion looked like compared to a passive Abaddon[Abaddon has 60k more EHP, about 163 vs 109 iirc a 49% increase.]

As you can see, it looks really funny[even though the ships are a lot closer together in real terms], and the EHP of the Abaddon doesn't make up the difference in DPS till about 8km.[It also shows how poor the Geddon is compared to the Abaddon as a passive tanked gank ship, despite its much better DPS against real targets

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


So, what does it all mean? It means you're full of crap.

Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
Posted - 2008.12.19 18:53:00 - [586]
 

those are the same graphs that maralt posted, just a different scale.

Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Maelstrom Crew
Paradigm Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.19 19:16:00 - [587]
 

Originally by: Chi Quan
those are the same graphs that maralt posted, just a different scale.


No they arn't, did you even look at the key's? Maralt's had void, 1 web, resistances. Then rather than just switching void to null he decided to also add 3rd HS for geddon and remove resistances.

Goum's has t1+15% and t2 ranged ammos, resistances and 2 web hyperion, then also posts a better analysis of the ships included in each graph rather than going "LOOK AT THE LINES THATS ALL THAT MATTERS !!!".

The scale is also better for the ranges they are currently discussing.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:41:00 - [588]
 

Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 21:44:28
Originally by: Marn Prestoc


The scale is also better for the ranges they are currently discussing.


We are discussing pulse so the ranges are not ok cos they do not come close to covering the available ranges for the system in question.

Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Maelstrom Crew
Paradigm Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:52:00 - [589]
 

Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 19/12/2008 21:44:28
Originally by: Marn Prestoc


The scale is also better for the ranges they are currently discussing.


We are discussing pulse so the ranges are not ok cos they do not come close to covering the available ranges for the system in question.


Is that your whole reply to Goums post? "you didn't show 15km where the lasers are in falloff so i'm discounting everything you say"???

Your own post lists 6 comparisons, 0-10, 10-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50 and 50-60, so that graph shows 45km's of 60km's you've analysed. Do you really think you have to show absolutely everything in a single diagram to do a analysis? Please, give whoever still reads this topic a bit of credit that they know from all the other diagrams what happens in those last 15km.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.20 09:51:00 - [590]
 

Originally by: Marn Prestoc


Is that your whole reply to Goums post? "you didn't show 15km where the lasers are in falloff so i'm discounting everything you say"???


That is not what i said unless you would like to show me where i did as i was replying to your comment on the ranges try not to be such a emotard.

Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Do you really think you have to show absolutely everything in a single diagram to do a analysis?


Considering the topic is the dmg/range ratios of short range weapon systems i think that the total ranges of both systems are 100% relevant.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.20 10:24:00 - [591]
 

Edited by: maralt on 20/12/2008 12:18:15

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


So from 0-5km the geddon does 0-300 the hype does 0-430. (+130)

From 5-10km the geddon does 300-400km the hype does 430-390. (+130/-10)

From 10-15km the geddon does 300-360 the hype does 250--300. (-50/-60)

from 15-20 the geddon does 360-350 the hype does 300-270. (-60/-80)

from 20-25 the geddon does 300-280 the hype does 270-200. (-30/-80)

from 25-30 the geddon does 350-350 the hype does 200-160. (-150/-190)

from 30-35 the geddon does 325-330 the hype does 160-130. (-165/-200)

from 35-40 the geddon does 340+ the hype has drones doing 100ish. (-240+)

From 40-45+ we can assume the geddon does 300+ and the hype 100 (-200+)

From 45-50+ we can assume the geddon does 300+ and the hype 100 (-200+)

From 50-55+ we can assume the geddon does 200+ and the hype 100 (-100 to-200)

From 55-60+ we can assume the geddon does 200+ and the hype 100 (-100to-200)

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.20 10:32:00 - [592]
 

Edited by: maralt on 20/12/2008 10:38:38

Now taking into account that the tests were done using webs but also that the target ships had perfect transversal relative to their speed (and that doing the same is utterly possible in actual combat) the system with tracking issues would suffer less in real combat and actually hit more/harder and considerably closer than shown.

But even ignoring that real time and actual combat relevant data, pulse lasers are still highly effective inside web range (even more so if you include overheat + gourmindongs 2.4 x range multiplier for webs) into the equation.

NOW WHAT DOES ALL THOSE FIGURES IN THE POST ABOVE AND THIS ONE MEAN?.....


ZE "BALANCE" BAT COMETHVery Happy.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2008.12.20 10:57:00 - [593]
 

The figures above mean you dont play on TQ and have no clue. You can screw numbers as much as you want and in the end of the day hype will kill all geddons in 1v1 (unless hype has crap fit). Hell even in 2v2 they can still win with overheat for a bit.

So no, its not only about damage but also keeping decent tank (be it passive or active) while sporting that damage, keeping mobility, tackle and everything else. Unless you plan on "but this is gang fit" then i up tier with Falcon alt and you lose no matter what :)

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.20 11:36:00 - [594]
 

Edited by: maralt on 20/12/2008 12:45:04
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
The figures above mean you dont play on TQ and have no clue. You can screw numbers as much as you want and in the end of the day hype will kill all geddons in 1v1 (unless hype has crap fit). Hell even in 2v2 they can still win with overheat for a bit.


Personally i think that anybody who believes BS and their weapons systems should be balanced around 1 v 1 BS situations, while in the same quote preaches about realistic TQ situations needs to stop and take a breath.

1 v 1 BS or even solo BS situations are like rocking horse crap on TQ, (ie: ultra rare) and as such are not the thing that a entire class of ships and their weapon systems should be balanced around, especially since fits and engagement ranges along with many other variables can be changed to allow virtually any battleship to seem dominant.

Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Maelstrom Crew
Paradigm Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.20 12:47:00 - [595]
 

Originally by: maralt
That is not what i said unless you would like to show me where i did as i was replying to your comment on the ranges try not to be such a emotard.

Considering the topic is the dmg/range ratios of short range weapon systems i think that the total ranges of both systems are 100% relevant.


Wow your back to insulting people cos your arguements so weak, shame.

I didn't say the total ranges of both systems was irrelevant, I said you didn't have to show them in one graph which makes reading inaccurate.

*insert random insult to try and make you look worse and my arguement stronger here*.

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.20 12:50:00 - [596]
 

Edited by: maralt on 20/12/2008 13:00:33
Originally by: Marn Prestoc

Wow your back to insulting people cos your arguements so weak, shame.


Il tell you what you stop putting words into my mouth and claiming i have said things i most certainly have not:-

Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Is that your whole reply to Goums post? "you didn't show 15km where the lasers are in falloff so i'm discounting everything you say"???



and i will stop insulting you for doing so...

Deal?.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2008.12.20 13:15:00 - [597]
 

Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 20/12/2008 13:16:30
Ok ill make it short:

typical engagement range is 24km (disruptor range). Do blasters cover (ie: have an advantage) in around 50% of this range?

Quote:
So from 0-5km the geddon does 0-300 the hype does 0-430. (+130)
From 5-10km the geddon does 300-400km the hype does 430-390. (+130/-10)
From 10-15km the geddon does 300-360 the hype does 250--300. (-50/-60)
from 15-20 the geddon does 360-350 the hype does 300-270. (-60/-80)
from 20-25 the geddon does 300-280 the hype does 270-200. (-30/-80)


So from your post: yes they do cover 50% of this range as dominant weapon. So where is the issue?

EDIT:
also how the hell geddon does more damage in 5-10km range rather than 10-15km? 99% of the geddons will not have web thus tracking is main factor here. And as both ranges are in multifrequency reach (optimal) then longer range should give better damage due to reduced transversal. Explain.

Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Maelstrom Crew
Paradigm Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.20 13:27:00 - [598]
 

Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 20/12/2008 13:32:02
Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 20/12/2008 13:31:34
Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 20/12/2008 10:38:38

Now taking into account that the tests were done using webs but also that the target ships had perfect transversal relative to their speed (and that doing the same is utterly possible in actual combat) the system with tracking issues would suffer less in real combat and actually hit more/harder and considerably closer than shown.

But even ignoring that real time and actual combat relevant data, pulse lasers are still highly effective inside web range (even more so if you include overheat + gourmindongs 2.4 x range multiplier for webs) into the equation.

NOW WHAT DOES ALL THOSE FIGURES IN THE POST ABOVE AND THIS ONE MEAN?.....


ZE "BALANCE" BAT COMETHVery Happy.


Just badly typing out what we can see, rewording some of what Goum said and adding ZE BALANCE BAT COMETH doesn't mean anything.

Firstly 3 mids, so if its webbing and wd'ing plus cap booster to run everything it has no MWD, thats a sever limitation. So while you talk about piloting to reduce transversal hence make tracking a minor issue, the Hyperion will do it better from being quicker and lighter (plus having a MWD). It is the combination of web+Mwd that allows the best range (hence tracking) control, which the Geddon practically never has.

Overheating helps lasers in web range in that comparison more? What are you talking about? The Hyperion rely's more on its turrets than its drone's, plus doesn't get reduced as much by resistances. So please show us this maths that the Geddon will benifit more from overheating in web range.

Since you brought up overheating, the Hyperion could overheat its mwd and increase the raw difference in speed compared to a Geddon hence reduce travel time to get to its optimal.

You completely miss the point of the effect of webs, you talk like they only affect transversal, well they also affect the range you can keep. A 2 Web Hyperion a quicker and lighter ship than the Geddon (ignoring if hyper has a mwd and geddon doesn't) will have a much easier time keeping the target in that very wide high damage area within web range. A Geddon, a slower heavier ship with only 1 web will have a much harder time keeping towards the far ranges of web range to keep its peak damage.


Yes while piloting (assuming not hugging something so can't) you can reduce transversal, maybe look at smaller ships like cruisers to see what happens then where transversal is much more important.


Are you going to address the two other comparisons? Since this comparison's setups are the best for Amarr (full passive) and ignores a whole bonus for the Hyperion.

Originally by: maralt
Edited by: maralt on 20/12/2008 13:00:33
Il tell you what you stop putting words into my mouth and claiming i have said things i most certainly have not:-


Originally by: Marn Prestoc
Is that your whole reply to Goums post? "you didn't show 15km where the lasers are in falloff so i'm discounting everything you say"???


Originally by: maralt
We are discussing pulse so the ranges are not ok cos they do not come close to covering the available ranges for the system in question.


75% of the range is covered with only the falloff of lasers missing. I think that does come close.

Sounded to me like you were dismissing the post because of "they do not come close" to what you want. Plus it was a earlier post so I would of thought you'd reply to him first but I guess you didn't have time or something.

edit: i'll get these quote tags right yet!

maralt
Minmatar
The seers of truth
Posted - 2008.12.20 13:32:00 - [599]
 

Edited by: maralt on 20/12/2008 15:09:12

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

Ok ill make it short:

typical engagement range is 24km (disruptor range). Do blasters cover (ie: have an advantage) in around 50% of this range?


The engagement range of 1 v 1 is 0-24km the engagement range of gang combat can be much greater for the dmg dealers as the tacklers and dictors are the only ships that need to close to inside 24km.

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
also how the hell geddon does more damage in 5-10km range rather than 10-15km?


It is not my graph its gourmindongs although the dropoff inside 10km for the hype is due to the range of its ammo, this is also a issue that effects its ratio when you over heat webs as the lasers get a bonus 3km x 2.4 (7.2km "real space" according to gourm) where they hit for max dmg while the hype is into dmg fall off due to its range limitations.

And if you include the 1km inside 10km (shown on gourms graph) as well it is 4.33 x 2.4 and that is almost 10.4+km of max dmg for the lasers (13.3 to 9km x 2.4 = 10.4km+) while the hype is doing rather less due to range issues.

Captain Bringdown
Minmatar
Rage Against the Answering Machine
Posted - 2008.12.20 13:56:00 - [600]
 

So for a better comparison the graph should not include web on the geddon ? :P
You might be shooting yourself in the foot here


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