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blankseplocked Is the Kestral frigate worth it anymore?
 
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Gealbhan
Caldari
GealCorp
Posted - 2008.11.24 11:26:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Gealbhan on 24/11/2008 11:26:36
I keep reading about a missile nerf and i'm wondering is spending the ISK on a Kestral (4 missile launcher slots)a wise choice or not?

My alt is trained to fly Caldari ships up to frigate class, they have Caldari frigate 3.

Alt MKII
Caldari
Posted - 2008.11.24 11:45:00 - [2]
 

Go for it. Do not believe everything you read on these forums. The Kestrel is a fantastic ship to fly and very competent still as proven in the FW field. Light missiles are not really affected by QR (if not buffed), and small ships are now far more viable to fly if anything. Rockets though are a dodgy subject but I never really liked rockets to begin with.

I still use the Kestrel to run level IIs for new corporations that my standings are low. I could of course use a Caracal but where is the challenge in that.

If you like flying small ships as I do, this is IMHO the best combat T1 frigate for caldari.


Mickey Simon
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2008.11.24 11:49:00 - [3]
 

They should be fine.
As the above poster has mentioned, frigates are certainly more viable against bigger ships now - don't forget to be careful of drones though =P

Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2008.11.24 19:13:00 - [4]
 

The main complaint about the missile nerf relates to large missiles because they do not full damage most of the time anymore. Really that just puts them in line with other weapon types that lose damage when a ship is moving fast or is very small. So they are still viable, and small missiles are not really affected.

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2008.11.24 22:44:00 - [5]
 

The Kessie is still a cheap, viable, and fairly easy to fly Frig. That hasn't changed.

PCI E
Posted - 2008.11.25 01:01:00 - [6]
 

Try it with a AB or MWD
you'd love it.

Washinome Igarashi
Caldari
Strategic Syndicate
White Core
Posted - 2008.11.25 15:30:00 - [7]
 

I personally love the kessie, but the statement that it is not affected by QR is completely wrong. If you're shooting at someone with a high signature rating you might get close to full damage, but if you're shooting at a frigate or a destroyer with an AB running in excess of 500m/s you're only going to see a tiny fraction of your damage applied to your target.

For example, I fitted a nice AB to my Cormy and now missiles and rockets do almost no damage to me even from PC pilots with good missile skills.Confused

Sadly, Caldari do not have any decent tech I frigates. The Merlin is utterly useless, the Kestrel is slow as a pig and hard to fit, Griffin is nice as a low level ECM boat, but you're not going to match the utility of the Rifter or the Punisher. You're much better off training for rifter, or even better Cormorant. I highly recommend the Cormy for level 1 missioning, belt rat WTFpwning, ninja salvaging, and FW soloing until you can save up enough money to get yourself a decent Harpy or a Moa.

If you simply must fly the kestrel (which is likely the case), I suggest training up target painting and the sig increasing skill. Fit a nice (cold-gas or better) AB, target painter and a shield recharger to your kessie's mids and a BCS/Power Diagnostic system in the lows. The reason for the painter is that increasing your target's sig is even more important than it used to be.

But, forget missiles. Cormy, 6x 125mm, 2x salvager, mag stab and tracking computer = more ISK and more fun.

pausert
Caldari
AFK
Posted - 2008.11.25 16:56:00 - [8]
 

My view is that you should discard traing Caldari ships altogether. Your real early in your skill traing so now is agood time to switch to a more effactive race. I would suggest you start training Gallente, they dont suffer from the missile nerf and have the best drone ships and very good small PVP ships, unlike the Caldari. This is a good time to train the skills that most EVE players use and aviod the mistake of going Caldari.

Train those skills that will come in useful in the future, armor tanking, guns and drones. To use misseles now require very good skills (to much SP) and you will get a better return on gun skills way faster.

Disregard all the posters that say that guns require more SP to use, that's not true.Smile

Washinome Igarashi
Caldari
Strategic Syndicate
White Core
Posted - 2008.11.25 17:26:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Washinome Igarashi on 25/11/2008 17:30:28
Originally by: pausert
My view is that you should discard traing Caldari ships altogether.

THIS.

There's pretty much no reason to train up Caldari ships unless you really enjoy seeing that god-awful baboon-butt on the Moa. Go for armour-tanking, guns and drones as these have always been the superior systems. Plus it means that you'll be able to use more of the ships in eve because you'll be training skills common to most of the best ships as opposed to limiting yourself to a small fraction of the roster and a weapon system that was never very good for PvP in the first place.

Fitting shield extenders is currently a cruel joke as you trade more shield hps for the ability of your enemies to hit you harder and easier due to your increased sig.

Believe me. I asked the same question many months ago and the Dead Parrot Shoppe guys were nice enough to try and educate me. I went missiles because I thought I might be able to make a go of it, but now I regret not taking the advice and have moved all my training time trying to catch up with guns.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.25 17:42:00 - [10]
 

Though I'm flying cruisers and BC's now, I still fly my Kestral from time to time. It's a decent frigate and pretty cheap to replace should it be destroyed. However the ship definitely needs help from skills that boost base capacitor, CPU, and power.

I'm no math wiz, but I don't believe the missile nerf is really as bad as forum goers make it out to be. I've never personally experienced problems flying this little ship.

Washinome Igarashi
Caldari
Strategic Syndicate
White Core
Posted - 2008.11.25 19:39:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cyprus Black
However the ship definitely needs help from skills that boost base capacitor, CPU, and power.


Understatement of the year. Until you have enough time to get your skills up, you'll need to fit at least a MAPC/PDS/RCU in the lows to get enough power to run what you need.

Originally by: Cyprus Black

I'm no math wiz, but I don't believe the missile nerf is really as bad as forum goers make it out to be. I've never personally experienced problems flying this little ship.


You must be shooting at some very slow moving, high-sig NPCs for this to be the case.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2008.11.25 19:52:00 - [12]
 

Must...resist....

Goddamnit, you made me do it!



It's KestrEl, not KestrAl. Kestrel, damnit!

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2008.11.25 21:39:00 - [13]
 

Mmm, my first ever couple of kills in my Kestrel are still fresh in my mind back when I was a young brigand in lowsec. I was thinking about not continuing the trial I was on out of boredom till that point, and thought "oh well, suicide in my only ship in lowsec, see who I can poke at".

Ended up killing a Merlin, another Kestrel, and even ransomed a cruiser the next day.

Made me come back to EVE for another trial (I was still in highschool then), thats for fricking sureVery Happy

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2008.11.26 01:16:00 - [14]
 

The Kestrel is a freakin' DPSmobile, and I have endless wet dreams about some day commanding a corporate fleet of Kestrels on a level 3 mission. Or maybe even a level 4 mission, if my corp grows big enough.

Just realize that it is a fragile ship. I've been able to fit a sort of "passive" shield buffer tank on the Kestrel, but it never becomes very durable. If you want tanking, go for the Merlin instead, although really, my philosophy mostly is to say that the best form of tanking is proactive tanking, also known as active ganking: Do unto them before they have the opportunity to do unto you.

Fragile, yes, but oh so damaging. I started out assuming that 4 weapon hardpoints of the same kind was pretty good for a frigate, but as I've read up a bit on non-Caldari ships, it seems more and more to me as if the Kestrel is absolutely unique in offering not only 4 weapon hardpoints but also an (up to) 50% damage bonus, so that it effectively counts as having 6 effective launchers. I have yet to see another T1 frigate that comes even close to the DPS of a Kestrel. Even the Hawk, the T2 Caldari Assault Frigate, does less DPS than the Kestrel. That's how sweet the Kestrel is.

Oh, and another thing: The Kestrel is a ***** to fit. The Merlin is much easier. Not only does it have more slots (IIRC it has 1 more MID and 1 more LOW), it also has more powergrid and/or more CPU. The Kestrel is fit-starved, while the Merlin has plenty. The main problem with the Merlin is the low DPS, and the combined weapon loadout, forcing you to have skillz for both proper weapons and for pansy gun category weapons, which also makes it harder to pimp for DPS by fitting damage-enhancing modules.

It's a somewhat difficult ship, in many ways, but I've grown very fond of it after a year and a half of playing.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2008.11.26 01:22:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: PCI E
Try it with a AB or MWD
you'd love it.



4 Rocket Launchers, 3 Shield Extenders, 2 BCS. Then get up close and personal with the rats.

4 LOM
Serenus Legion
Posted - 2008.11.26 05:32:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: PCI E
Try it with a AB or MWD
you'd love it.



4 Rocket Launchers, 3 Shield Extenders, 2 BCS. Then get up close and personal with the rats.



What ever you do dont pvp in a setup like this.

Washinome Igarashi
Caldari
Strategic Syndicate
White Core
Posted - 2008.11.26 06:10:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: PCI E
Try it with a AB or MWD
you'd love it.



4 Rocket Launchers, 3 Shield Extenders, 2 BCS. Then get up close and personal with the rats.



I absolutely encourage you to post this LOLcomedyfit to Ships & Fittings as well as battleclinic so everyone can join in on the guffaws.

1) You're pig slow, yet you fit rocket launchers. Even if the rats are coming towards you and orbit close you're still going to have to take a pounding as your slow, lumbering ass tries to catch up to each one of them so you can shoot your rockets off. And they'll be doing very little damage because of the sig/velocity changes.

2) 3x shield extenders means that you're going to get hit for extra extra damage every single time. Even those .9 system rats are going to be scoring "well aimed" and "excellent" hits on you every time. And FFS FSM forbid that there's a desty or cruiser in the mix because heavy missiles and medium guns are going to insta-pop you.

to sum up: either you are an idiot or a troll. I look forward to ganking you in your latest lolfit whenever you find yourself in .4 or lower.

Please enlighten us more with your wisdom, o sage.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2008.11.26 12:43:00 - [18]
 

Two kestrels fitted that way, or at least quite similarly, actually worked quite well on a few level 2 missions, although that was before the QR changes.

Captain CiroccoJones
Posted - 2008.11.26 12:43:00 - [19]
 

Last night I watched a 2-month old guy in a Kessie take on a Caracal and an Osprey together and kill them both.

Admittedly they were using heavy missiles. The Kessie pilot still had fun though.Very Happy

Washinome Igarashi
Caldari
Strategic Syndicate
White Core
Posted - 2008.11.26 16:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Captain Ciroc*******
Last night I watched a 2-month old guy in a Kessie take on a Caracal and an Osprey together and kill them both.

Admittedly they were using heavy missiles. The Kessie pilot still had fun though.Very Happy


Heh. I can imagine. ALthough, honestly, Osprey is a mining/shield-repper cruiser and not worth a damn in a fight. You could knock over an Osprey with a moderately-fitted Velator.

Caracal also has tissue paper for defense and almost none of its pilots ever fits a webber or a target painter, so you can jump right in with a nos and 2 point scrammer. He probobly could have saved himself some damage by fitting an AB (with an AB on my Moa, light missiles do about 30-40 damage before resistance, heavies even less) but I wonder why he wasn't smart enough to warp off. I'd love to see the killmail for this to see what kind of failfitting the cruiser pilots were using.

However, I could more easily reproduce this feat with a Rifter/Incursus/Punisher. The advantage of armour tanking is that it leaves your mids open for the neccesary tackle gear.


 

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