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blankseplocked [POLL] Do you want the ingame browser to become better
 
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Bromine Mercury
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.11.19 02:04:00 - [31]
 

Unsigned.

Remove the IGB. Don't waste another second of developer time on things that are better solved elsewhere.

While you're at it, drop the calculator and Eve Voice.


Ryushe
Tengo Kagegetsu
Posted - 2008.11.19 05:47:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Ix Forres
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



What he said linked.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2008.11.19 06:10:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Tonto Auri on 19/11/2008 06:13:28
For those of you, who are blind or have short memory: main issue with IGB is the rendering engine. The thing that actually presenting the page to you.
None of listed engines can do that on 3D surface.
And just to notify: where you saw that Opera gone opensourse?

EDIT: I'm, as software developer, need some base to work from.
The "speed" and "features" of IGB is what bothring me terribly... but main issue is still 1-threaded EVE client :/ ANY, i mean ABSOLUTELY ANY action I take affecting whole client for a seconds. Even opening my own cargohol produce interface lag...

pip madhat
Gallente
theLAIR
Posted - 2008.11.19 07:08:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 19/11/2008 06:13:28
For those of you, who are blind or have short memory: main issue with IGB is the rendering engine. The thing that actually presenting the page to you.
None of listed engines can do that on 3D surface.
And just to notify: where you saw that Opera gone opensourse?

EDIT: I'm, as software developer, need some base to work from.
The "speed" and "features" of IGB is what bothring me terribly... but main issue is still 1-threaded EVE client :/ ANY, i mean ABSOLUTELY ANY action I take affecting whole client for a seconds. Even opening my own cargohol produce interface lag...


true true. no easy solution, eh?
i'll vote, SURE! '[0_o]'

oUTSKIRTs
Posted - 2008.11.19 10:01:00 - [35]
 

Quote:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.




Yes! Pleeeaaase! About time! 20 lines of html should NOT take several minutes to render on high end p4's. Many people need this browser to work. I count on it getting fixed and still work on my igb sites.

Rye
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2008.11.19 13:41:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Darkeen
No.

I never understood why you have a browser in a game when you can Alt-Tab (or Alt-Ctrl-D in Linux) to open the PC's web browser.

If your reading a browser then your not paying attention to the game and your Semi AFK.
Deal with the consequences.


The point of the IGB is not so that you can browse "normal" websites from in-game. I totally agree that if you want to use Google, then the in-game browser is not the place to do it. But that is NOT what the IGB is for. The IGB is used by lots of different corps and tool developers for creating utilities that are useful in-game to players. It's a way of extending content in a customisable way.

Some examples of IGB applications out there:

- Forums that are accessible from in-game (as well as through normal browsing), with enforced in-game registration.

- A variety of calculators, such as a mineral calculator where corp members can fill in the quantities of the minerals they want to sell to their corp, and the tool tells them how much the corp is willing to pay, based on the corp's current mineral prices... or a tool for telling people how much the corp is willing to pay for their unwanted modules and loot... or a tool for calculating how much fuel you should take with you to fill up your POS without over-doing certain fuel types... etc. etc. etc.

- Op Buddy applications where members join ops from in-game, and the tool monitors how long they stay connected / signed-on in the op so that at the end of the op the proceeds can be split fairly among the people who took part according to how long they took part (there are examples for mining, missions, and other op-based activities)

- Stock monitors on things like mineral levels in an industrial corp, POS fuel levels for any corp with a POS, ammo/module/ship levels for manufacturers, etc.

- and if we ever get a faster / decent IGB implementation, we could see a whole new generation of useful utilities, including stuff like decent killboards accessible from in-game with the same full functionality that's offered out of game (instead of having cut-down functionality in-game due to the IGB's limitations at the moment).

Basically, anyone who's using the IGB for browsing "normal" websites should deal with the consequences of being semi-AFK like you say, but when we talk about improving the IGB, it's for EVE-related stuff that is useful in a number of ways to the people playing the game.

Originally by: Darkeen
Remove the IGB entirely and allow the server to improve speed and performance issues by not having to handle browser requests.


The IGB is client-side. It therefore does not affect the server performance in the slightest. Removing the IGB will not improve the rest of your gameplay. The only thing an improved IGB will do is allow people to write better tools which someday you'll more than likely end up using.

In fact, the chances are an improved IGB will improve the EVE client - some of the general info pages and the news page that opens when you click on the IGB button probably use the same code as the IGB for displaying stuff, so an improvement to the IGB code will probably lead to an improvement in the general speed at which other things are displayed in-game.

So anyway, getting back to the vote.

/SIGNED

omgdutch2005
Gallente
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:59:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: omgdutch2005 on 19/11/2008 16:20:04
[votes: YES]

they could get a licence on webkit lots of mobile phones use it, so its not rly a memory issue as phones seldom have loads of memory :)

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Ryushe
Tengo Kagegetsu
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:05:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: omgdutch2005
Edited by: omgdutch2005 on 19/11/2008 16:20:04
[votes: YES]

they could get a licence on webkit lots of mobile phones use it, so its not rly a memory issue as phones seldom have loads of memory :)

Why would they need a license? WebKit is free, the code is readily available. From what I can tell based on the WebKit site, the code is released under the GPLv2, meaning that as long as CCP would credit the original creators and promise to make available any changes they might make, it should be perfectly ok to use.

Then again, WebKit is a bit over the top for the IGB. All we need (imho) is a decent HMTL 4.0 parser with limited CSS support. More importantly is the rendering speed of the thing I would think.
But consider this as to why CCP will probably not change the IGB. As far as I can see, the IGB is used to display the news items on the login window, the news when you select 'Read News' on a billboard, the mission descriptions etc etc. Overthrowing the current IGB code and replacing it is most likely going to be a major pain in the backside, as much as I would love to see it happen...

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:36:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Ryushe

Why would they need a license? WebKit is free, the code is readily available. From what I can tell based on the WebKit site, the code is released under the LGPLv2, meaning that as long as CCP would credit the original creators and promise to make available any changes they might make, it should be perfectly ok to use.



Fixed L - very important ;)

But the question still stands, if WebKit could be used for rendering to DirectX. I seriously doubt that.

I personally would love strict xhtml 1.0/1.1 with some CSS support. It would be easy to parse and developer can always check his code through DTD. And maybe the people would finally learn how to write correct websites (that icludes me)

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:49:00 - [40]
 

Almost forget:

/SIGNED (it's not like it matters anyway)

And Zulupark's answer regarding IGB: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=905941&page=1#24

Ryushe
Tengo Kagegetsu
Posted - 2008.11.20 00:01:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: Ryushe
...released under the LGPLv2 ...


Fixed L - very important ;)

My bad Sad

Chruker
Posted - 2008.11.20 00:25:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
And just to notify: where you saw that Opera gone opensourse?


Not open source, but partner ship. I know an Opera developer in the #eve-dev irc channel has suggested it.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2008.11.20 01:56:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Chruker
Originally by: Tonto Auri
And just to notify: where you saw that Opera gone opensourse?


Not open source, but partner ship. I know an Opera developer in the #eve-dev irc channel has suggested it.

That's interesting news. I hope they know what's that about :D

Der Seben
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.20 09:55:00 - [44]
 

no.

Dump the IGB and point links to the external browser. no more copy/paste

Iso Santos
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:06:00 - [45]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

For the original post of upgrading the IGB, that is.

Dragonaire
Caldari
Corax.
PURgE Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.21 02:56:00 - [46]
 

As someone pointed out above CCP uses at least part of the code from IGB in the UI so until that's no longer true they really can't just get rid of it without coding a replacement so while they are at it might as well make something that works better (faster and follow the standards more). I don't care if they do it in house (A working IGB is worth more to me then walking around a station any day and they've waste thousands of programming hours or more on that now Razz) or they decide to integrate outside system like webkit, etc. Eve voice now seems to work well enough after a couple patches so if out sourcing IGB gets it fixed faster that would be great. In the end something needs to be done because the long it's put off the harder any fix will be.

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.11.21 07:17:00 - [47]
 

/signed without a doubt.

Kravek
Lamb Federation Navy
C0VEN
Posted - 2008.11.21 08:45:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Kravek on 21/11/2008 08:45:19
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

But i don`t belive that they do something.

Faekurias
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2008.11.21 15:07:00 - [49]
 


Rekef Selran
Posted - 2008.11.22 13:12:00 - [50]
 

signed. Upgrade the IGB or switch to an open source browser like webkit.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2008.11.23 03:11:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Rekef Selran
signed. Upgrade the IGB or switch to an open source browser like webkit.


Where you saw opensource browser capable of rendering on D3D surface?

Ydnari
Gallente
Estrale Frontiers
Posted - 2008.11.23 03:17:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Ydnari on 23/11/2008 12:38:44
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Rekef Selran
signed. Upgrade the IGB or switch to an open source browser like webkit.


Where you saw opensource browser capable of rendering on D3D surface?


http://meta.nuanti.com/
http://ubrowser.com/

for starters


p.s. /signed

BlueStar88
BlueStar Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.23 04:20:00 - [53]
 


Eethrak
LiveTech
Cold Fusion Syndicate
Posted - 2008.11.23 09:00:00 - [54]
 

I'd really like to get it back to the functionality it had a couple of weeks ago - y'know when it actually worked. Then lets talk about making it better from there. /signed

And yes, for the people who want the IGB removing, you almost certainly aren't involved in running a corp or alliance. Corp managers get no love at the best of times, we have to make our own through ingame sites. Its incredibly frustrating when the IGB's limited functionality grinds to almost a comeplete halt as it has this past week. Its an essential tool for a lot of applications and groups and it really needs addressing urgently - and not by some arm-wavey "We'd like to replace within the next year" comments.

Madam Mika
Gallente
DemSal Corporation
Posted - 2008.11.23 18:21:00 - [55]
 

it needs .png surrport and better server side scripting support

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2008.11.24 00:16:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Madam Mika
it needs .png surrport and better server side scripting support


what you mean by .png support? It can display PNG image. Something besides that?

Sophie Malaster
Heavy industries Shinohara
ARTESANOS
Posted - 2008.11.25 12:39:00 - [57]
 

Yes and No. Yes only if they developt a really webbrowser, but it they'll do a simple mending, i prefer erase the IGB.

Malif Rising
Rising Industries
Posted - 2008.11.25 22:31:00 - [58]
 

Definitely address some bugs, but don't try to make the IGB do everything Firefox or IE can do. That's crazy, impractical, and a waste of effort.

1) Fix "Trusted Sites" -- or make every site "trusted" (which is a crazy word for it anyway since sending some spoofable headers is hardly "trust"). After all, you're accessing a site via the IGB. If you want to hide your username, location and what corp you belong to, use a real browser.

2) Make basic forms work. Nothing fancy. Just the basics. Adding a <textarea> stops the rendering, for god's sake!

3) Make sure simple tables work. Yes, it's 1990's tech, but it's fine for something like this.

4) Speed it up. I really hope you aren't proxying the client's HTTP request. If you aren't already, start up a thread and let the thing load directly from the site it is hitting.

In a nutshell, don't get fancy. Forget any kind of scripting. Keep the CSS to what you have -- or less if it is buggy. Just give us the basics and make them work so we can add on functionality for our corp members.

Thanks.

-- Malif

Mistmare
Minmatar
Sacred Templars
Atropos.
Posted - 2008.11.26 01:04:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Mistmare on 26/11/2008 01:04:20
guys, he just asked for a yes or a no, not for a discussion...


I say yes.

.signed.

Ikaef Giasep
Posted - 2008.11.26 02:32:00 - [60]
 

/sign

I am offering research services through the ingame browser. Would be great if the browser was faster and standard features were implemented correctly.


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