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Sakagura
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.18 05:29:00 - [1]
 

Some background: relatively new player, just bought a Drake and started L3 missions. When I went from doing L1 in a Kestrel to L2 in a Caracal, I didn't see much of a difference. L3 though, there does seem to be a difference; I'm burning a lot more ammo and seem to be killing slower against old enemies like frigates and cruisers. I'm also finding sometimes that I need to warp out and heal up, especially today when I pulled the Pirate Invasion mission and had to warp out twice.

Is there a significant gap in NPC resilience and damage from L2->L3 unlike in L1->L2? Is there something wrong in my setup? 7 Heavy Missile launchers, 10.6k shields w/ extenders, target painter, 2 BCUs, 2 shield relays, invul field. I tried using 3 Heavy Assaults for awhile to try to better take down the smaller ships but it didn't seem to help.

Srvin Taisorgky
Posted - 2008.11.18 07:22:00 - [2]
 

I think you might not have all the skills you need to do lvl 3's easily. Drakes are a very good passive tank so I wouldn't use active shield tanking at all. You likely need more passive shield skills and I would tank against the specific rat you are fighting rather than use invulnerability field and relying on shield extenders (which I don't like that much except for the Caracal which needs one for sure.) With the new missile nerf dps went down, you will have to have better drone skills and use drones to kill the frigs.

There is no shame in warping out. As your skills get better you will have to do it less. I haven't used shield power relays in lows in years; you can avoid their use with better cap and shield skills and check for forums the drake setups.(within reason you can compensate for low skills with fittings, but as you get better skills you will notice how your former restraints have given way to new freedoms in fittings.)

And yes, basically each higher lvl mission has harder NPC resists; there are some old sites that list the npc resists which are in the ballpark.

By the way, I once had to grind some lvl 1 and lvl 2 to get standing. I had all these skills for a Kestrel, and I found that with these maxed skills I was not only able to do all the lvl 1's but all the lvl 2's except about two as well. That experience sold me on the idea of skills over fittings.

Good luck.

Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears
Posted - 2008.11.18 07:39:00 - [3]
 

I would say that L1 + L2 are quite the "same" and lvl3 is harder but with good skills a breeze with pretty much any fit. Yes, there is a bigger jump from L2>L3 than L1>L2

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2008.11.18 12:56:00 - [4]
 

It's probably your fitting, you might want rat specific hardeners. Having to warp out of a Level 3 mission with a Drake is a failure of fitting.

Gaelenus
Gallente
Society of the Crimson Flame
Posted - 2008.11.18 18:02:00 - [5]
 

Personally i'd say its skill related, i remember doing lvl 2's in my thorax when i didnt really have good skills and i found them to be quite challenging on occasion, in contrast recently when i started doing level 2's again ( to grind standing) i found that missions i uesed to have to warp out in, or that would cause me serious problems had become a lot easier. Its amazing what some T2 fittings and skill bonuses can do..

Sakagura
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.11.19 02:10:00 - [6]
 

Re-tuned EveMON today to focus solely on shields and missiles. I've got Heavy Missiles at 5 right now but I added in a level for each of Rapid Launch, Target Navigation Prediction, Guided Missile Precision, and Missile Projection to get them to IV, plus a level of Shield Management, Kinetic Compensation, and Explosive Compensation to get them to IV as well. I'll see where it goes from there.

Ana Konda
Amarr
Posted - 2008.11.19 07:56:00 - [7]
 

Train support skills capacitor/shiled/missiles related and after you got them at least 4 you are allowed to complain, sorry but as previous stated players with 3 mil sp's in drakes/ravens arent allowed to complain cos they cant make half of the missions.

Again drakes are good passive shield tankers if they have the skills to support them...

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.11.19 09:36:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 19/11/2008 09:39:59

Originally by: Sakagura

Is there a significant gap in NPC resilience and damage from L2->L3 unlike in L1->L2? Is there something wrong in my setup? 7 Heavy Missile launchers, 10.6k shields w/ extenders, target painter, 2 BCUs, 2 shield relays, invul field.


Level 3 mission is the point where NPC resist and type of damage start to have effect.

So the blanket protection of the invulnerability field and multiple extenders is less useful that a specific tank with 1 or 2 (or even more) hardeners of the right kind.

With the Drake bonus and invulnerability field you probably get less than 50% resist as your worst value (EM), with 1 Photon hardener you will get above 60%. That mean that you cut the damage you get by more than 20%.

With the other resistances it get even better as a reduction of 10% damage when you are already getting 40% damage after resists mean a reduction of 25% on the effective damage.

Similarly your targets resists will be higher than in the lower level missions, so using the right kind of ammunitions and drones is more important.

As the Drake has a bonus on kinetic missile damage some people has crunched the numbers and say that generally kinetic missiles are the best ammunition (with a good BC skill 3+), with the exception of angels rats, where explosive missiles are a must.

There are several sites where you can get the NPC resists and damage, look them for an idea of what you need to use.

edit:
Originally by: Srvin Taisorgky
With the new missile nerf dps went down, you will have to have better drone skills and use drones to kill the frigs.



Was forgetting that. Train your drone skills and again try to use the drones with he better damage type for the enemies you find in the mission.


FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2008.11.19 13:34:00 - [9]
 

Actually, if you have BC V, you should use Kinetic missiles against everything, except that you should use EM missiles against Amarr, Sanshas and Blood Raiders. Angels are weaker to bonused kinetic missiles than unbonused explosive missiles.

Sanpaku Deska
Posted - 2008.11.19 14:00:00 - [10]
 

Also, if you have Heavy Missiles 5 already, I'd go ahead and get Heavy Missiles Specialization, which allows you to use T2 launchers. Not too dear and a significant upgrade. ANd best of all the first 3 levels don't take much time at all (as per the EVE formula).

FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Sanpaku Deska
Also, if you have Heavy Missiles 5 already, I'd go ahead and get Heavy Missiles Specialization, which allows you to use T2 launchers. Not too dear and a significant upgrade. ANd best of all the first 3 levels don't take much time at all (as per the EVE formula).


Or shell out the ISK and get the CN Launchers - unless you want to use T2 ammo - the ROF is better than even max-specced T2 launchers. With good skills, CN BCUs, ROF implants and CN Launchers, the NH makes an excellent ship - a good choice for soloing 4s or acting as part of a team in 4s or 5s.


 

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