open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked Walking in Stations - Gambling - EVE becomes (R) 18+ upon release
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Dapto
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.10 06:13:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Dapto on 10/11/2008 06:15:19
Had a chat to some people who went to fanfest and they made a comment about walking in stations and the facility to be able to play cards and gamble. Is CCP aware that doing/having this will make EVE an (R) 18+ rated game in most western countries ?

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
Posted - 2008.11.10 06:57:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Dapto
Edited by: Dapto on 10/11/2008 06:15:19
Had a chat to some people who went to fanfest and they made a comment about walking in stations and the facility to be able to play cards and gamble. Is CCP aware that doing/having this will make EVE an (R) 18+ rated game in most western countries ?


Yes, because there are absolutely no players under 13 playing EVE.

In other words, It doesn't matter.

Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.11.10 09:07:00 - [3]
 

While I would agree with your concerns IF real money was changing hands as a result of In-Game Gambling, the fact remains that any gambling done as a Result of Ambulation would be for ISK / In-Game Items only.

As a result, it shouldn't fall under any gambling laws that I'm aware of and so EVE would retain it's current age rating.

Dapto
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.10 10:29:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Dapto on 10/11/2008 10:30:20
I think you'll find that in most western countries anything that promotes gambling to minors is not tollerated and it doesnt matter whether its isk/items or RL money. Playing of cards for isk promotes gambling, subsequently most countries will see it this way and rate EVE 18+.

Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.11.10 10:56:00 - [5]
 

Untrue. If that was the case then the likes of this game:-

World Series Of Poker: Tournament Champions (Wii)

Would be rated as 18+ not 12+

Dapto
Minmatar
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.10 11:25:00 - [6]
 

Yea but in world series poker your not playing other people and you dont lose anything

Another Forum'Alt
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.11.10 11:28:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Dapto
Yea but in world series poker your not playing other people and you dont lose anything

Neither do you in eve.

elric gallach
Posted - 2008.11.10 11:39:00 - [8]
 

In a lot of places you convert you money to game credits,
And use that to play.

If gambling was allowed in eve, it may fall into that catagory, Due to isk sellers.

Quote:
null
Quote:
Had a chat to some people who went to fanfest and they made a comment about walking in stations and the facility to be able to play cards and gamble. Is CCP aware that doing/having this will make EVE an (R) 18+ rated game in most western countries ?



And that would be a bad thingTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Another Forum'Alt
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.11.10 11:44:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: elric gallach

If gambling was allowed in eve, it may fall into that catagory, Due to isk sellers.


since isk selling is against the EULA, I doubt it.

Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.11.10 12:01:00 - [10]
 

Did a little bit of digging. Most downloadable Poker Software does indeed have an Age Restriction of 18+, However this is due to the Real Money Aspect of that software.

In most cases however, the point at which Age Verification is required is when you sign up to a real money account, before then you can happily play on the "Play Money" Tables without requiring to prove your age.

So, as long as the Buy-in's and Prizes are all In-Game Items then there is no further need for Age Verification in EVE.

Besides, you already gamble every day in game as soon as you click undock. You place your ISK and Assets at risk from other players and hope that your skill and luck is more than theirs in order to make a profit.

Eelis Kiy
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2008.11.10 12:40:00 - [11]
 

If player names like "C**ty F**ps and blowing people up have not already made Eve an 18+ game where you live I sincerely doubt that placing bets for ingame money will either.

There are countless games out there for under 18's where you can take part in "gambling" type activities via mini-games.

Ruri Dant
The Riot Act
Posted - 2008.11.10 16:09:00 - [12]
 

I'm not too much of a gambler but if that is what it takes to sift away a "bimbominkia" (AKA Whiny kid) then so be it, casino and nude gallenteans when i dock!

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.11.10 18:38:00 - [13]
 

This argument is a waste of time... I can think of numerous games that have a form of gambling of some such or sort.

If if involved real currency... it would be a factor.... but it doesn't.

So again.. waste of time.

Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.10 20:37:00 - [14]
 

Of course, there are those games where RW money is converted to in-game currency. Mining/killing things generates randomly in-game currency, which can then be withdrawn in the RW at a decent exchange rate. Sound like gambling to you? I think it qualifies...

Oh, my point- its restricted to 13+ (with parent permission, of course).

Take care,
Arithron


Jas Dor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.11.10 21:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: elric gallach
In a lot of places you convert you money to game credits,
And use that to play.

If gambling was allowed in eve, it may fall into that catagory, Due to isk sellers.

Quote:
null
Quote:
Had a chat to some people who went to fanfest and they made a comment about walking in stations and the facility to be able to play cards and gamble. Is CCP aware that doing/having this will make EVE an (R) 18+ rated game in most western countries ?



And that would be a bad thingTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil


Yes because it would fall afoul of US anti gambling laws and all credit card payments from US consumers pending could be frozen.

Zanmaru
Gallente
Broski Enterprises
The Council.
Posted - 2008.11.10 21:36:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Zanmaru on 10/11/2008 21:37:39
Ambulation will need some spicing up to make it more than just walking around, and gambling should do the trick nicely. I seriously doubt that any US law enforcement agency would give it so much as a second glance, especially since in-game currency is not legally considered to be the same as actual rl currency. If you read the EULA's of most MMOs, the developer owns all virtual property and money generated.

And besides, CCP is a company. Thus, they have LAWYERS to tell them if what they're doing is legal. I don't think the legality of something is a valid issue for CSM. We're gamers, not attorneys (for the most part).

Case in point: Second Life. Second Life encourages exchanging rl money for in-game currency, and has player-run and designed gambling centers. To my knowledge they have yet to be sued for this.

Ticondrius
United Federation Starfleet
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2008.11.10 21:44:00 - [17]
 

Online gambling, as in, that which is generally banned or restricted, is where you must deposit monies into a game expressly for the purpose of gambling, and where you can withdraw those same monies from the game to yourself by some means such as mailed check, bank deposit and so on.

Gambling in EVE station does not cross any of those lines, as you do not pay a subscription to gamble, nor can you withdraw your ISK in a means as outlined above to your local currency.

You CAN purchase GTCs to sell for ISK, but this is not directly related to the gambling and still lacks a means to convert ISK back into real world currencies that is sanctioned by CCP.

In short: If you can't put real cash into the game and take real cash out of it for the express purpose of playing games of chance, restrictions and bans do not apply.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.11.10 22:44:00 - [18]
 

It's not gambling when no assets change ownership.

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2008.11.12 00:44:00 - [19]
 

How does these countries favor mass murder and the collecting of corpses?

Violence is ok as long as there's no sex and gambling involved. Challenge the turds CCP, those kids don't have enough money on their parents credit cards anyways to sustain multiple accounts.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.11.12 03:13:00 - [20]
 

9 times out of 10 its not the game so to speak... its the parents who fail to teach.

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.11.12 04:15:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dapto
Edited by: Dapto on 10/11/2008 10:30:20
I think you'll find that in most western countries anything that promotes gambling to minors is not tollerated and it doesnt matter whether its isk/items or RL money. Playing of cards for isk promotes gambling, subsequently most countries will see it this way and rate EVE 18+.


I remember that the first pokemon games had a gambling area in one town, and that there were items only available as prizes from the gambling. Yet I don't remember any complaints over that.

Tomcat
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.11.12 06:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Zanmaru
Edited by: Zanmaru on 10/11/2008 21:37:39
Case in point: Second Life. Second Life encourages exchanging rl money for in-game currency, and has player-run and designed gambling centers. To my knowledge they have yet to be sued for this.


I was the owner of one of the top 3 largest poker houses in Second Life, and can confirm that as of mid-summer 2007, the us govt put pressure on Linden Labs, and in-game gambling was banned due to the ability to convert the virtual currency into USD.

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:17:00 - [23]
 

At no time was it said that cards/gambling was 'going' to happen in stations.

A strategic game was mentioned which u play against a AI - it was a player that asked if it could include poker and the answer was that it would be looked into as a possibility

Larula Vorland
Posted - 2008.11.12 11:36:00 - [24]
 

Something that some seem to overlook:

ISK cannot be sold for real money without breaking the EULA rules, but real money can be used to buy ISK without doing so through selling Gametime codes.

Since real money can be converted into ISK, ISK have a very real value.

Eventually it is very much possible that people with a gambling problem might end up buying GTCs to fuel their gambling addiction. Those two things in combination might become a legal problem.

It saddens me to see that things like this actually have the potential to become problems. Rolling Eyes

Nekopyat
Posted - 2008.11.12 20:31:00 - [25]
 

This is actually a bigger risk then people think.

Gambling laws are highly localized and sometimes very sticky. For instance within the UK there is a board that decides based off unwritten criteria if a game counts or not (or if you are trading something worth something, it doesn't have to be money)...

In many US states, having cards in the game environment (regardless of money being involved at all) is enough to get the gambling boards involved if they want to. And New Jeresy is just insane with it's laws if the board even THINKS a game might effect gambling (since the state brings in huge amounts of revenue from gambling and the industry is pretty in-bed with the local government)

Note - I say this having worked for a company that produces an on-line non-gambling game. While it is rarely a problem, if some DA looking to make a name for themselves or someone locally takes offense.. it can be a headache. We actually had to alter (or disable) our product for differnt regions because of it.

Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2008.11.12 20:36:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Aloriana Jacques on 12/11/2008 20:41:19
Gambling fake money is bad....
But allowing people to inject their characters with performance enhancing drugs is good?

You sir, have an odd way of thinking.
If it wasn't rated R before, it won't be now unless someone has a stick up their ass when they rate the game.

And above all else, EVE will always be available for online download. So even if a store doesn't carry it because of a local rating, you can still get it hassle free online.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2008.11.12 20:37:00 - [27]
 

Interesting Factoid, but .. So What?
Are those local markets/countries actually able to do anything about it? And even if they can, is EVE really such a big game that they will bother?

Nekopyat
Posted - 2008.11.12 20:57:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Aloriana Jacques
Edited by: Aloriana Jacques on 12/11/2008 20:41:19
Gambling fake money is bad....
But allowing people to inject their characters with performance enhancing drugs is good?


Never said the laws made sense. I think the idea though is the gambling laws in question don't care if money is actually trading hands, it is how the game is played.

For instance, the old UK SWP 'grey market', games were legal or illegal based off how much randomness they have in them (i.e. the player must ALWAYS be able to get the maxium score). Canada works in a similiar way. Utah all they care about is if it has cards in it,.. and NJ who knows.

Quote:
And above all else, EVE will always be available for online download. So even if a store doesn't carry it because of a local rating, you can still get it hassle free online.


As a consumer correct, but as a company CCP can get a lot of headaches if some local laws start giving them trouble. You often have to fly to the local jurisdiction to defend yourself (at your expense) or forfit the hearing, and US states have done quite a bit over the last few years for extending their community laws to other countires, esp when it comes to gambling (for instance, arresting members of the company if they travel to the US, feezing assets, forcing CC companies to no longer deliver payment, etc)

While unlikely, it IS a legal concern CCP is going to have to look into if they implement virtual gambling as part of EVE.

Nekopyat
Posted - 2008.11.12 21:02:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Serenity Steele
Interesting Factoid, but .. So What?
Are those local markets/countries actually able to do anything about it? And even if they can, is EVE really such a big game that they will bother?



Example: : State of Kentucky Seizes Control of 141 Domain Names

Kentucky's gambling board felt that these were sufficiently gambly sites that, since they were accessible to it's citizens fell under their authority so they seased them, even though many were owned and hosted in other countries.

Zanmaru
Gallente
Broski Enterprises
The Council.
Posted - 2008.11.12 23:55:00 - [30]
 

They could simply add poker without the built-in ability to gamble. People already bet on various things using ISK, though without it being built-in to the card system you'd basically have to use the honor system.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only