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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2009.03.12 15:51:00 - [601]
 

Please tone down the damage(or resists) on their Sentries.

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:07:00 - [602]
 

Edited by: Jimer Lins on 12/03/2009 16:07:06
So much whining in other threads about the Sleepers and WHs and how hard they are, I love it.

How's that old phrase go? Something about "Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it." Twisted Evil

Derus Grobb
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:10:00 - [603]
 

Please DO NOT tone down the damage(or resists) on their Sentries!!

The sleepers are fun to fight. It's very important that they are 'on par' with players and don't cheat and are subject to the same tactics eg ECM, energy warfare etc. The sooner this AI comes to all other NPCs the better (reducing the numbers or increasing reward for balance of course).

The only thing I'd ask for is more variation in how many / type of NPCs that spawn at the sleeper cosmic anomalies, we have encountered predictable spawns so far. Pimay calling is "same as last time guys..."

EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:15:00 - [604]
 

Originally by: CCP Incognito
So the new AI has been live for 2 days now.

I am interested in your opinion of the AI?

Is it the right level of challenging?

Please try to keep on topic about the AI, I know there is still allot of wild speculation of what they can do. The amount of damage, tanking,... while important is not what I am looking to hear about?

Also if you know of any way to trick the AI into being stupid I would like to here about them. If you have found something and don't want to post here, I can arrange a Email that you can mail it to.

So what you think?



So far what I have come across in the Radar plexes are that its fantastically put together... but I have noticed a few things that I find to be a bit odd...

Now i know the sleepers are more advanced then us capsuleers... but remote repping @ 120-130km away is a bit extreme imo. Also theyre weakness to ECM is laughable, 4 scorpions = 12 sleeper bs perma-jammed.

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.03.12 16:23:00 - [605]
 

Edited by: CCP Incognito on 12/03/2009 16:25:17
When we get done with fire fighting.. A rework of the NPC v PC e-war mechanics is very high on our list.


Good comment about the 4 scorps, what do you think the balance should be? 4 scorps keep 3,4,5,6 sleepers perma jammed?

As to the same layout, unfortunately there is a limited number of encounters for sleepers. If we could get infinite work out of people there would be more :) So at the moment if the name of the site is the same, the spawns are the same.

We would like to get them on more NPC also, but we will wait until we see the impact of the sleepers. If/when we do probably the named NPC will be the first to get the new AI.

Still trying to convince people that the Sleepers should be podding also... still no luck :(

Glad you are enjoying the new AI, let us know if we should up the damage on them? Twisted Evil


Connen
Gallente
Silver Fox Ironworks
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:23:00 - [606]
 

How about if we put all the NPC's in pre-nerf nano/overdrive/booster/snake vaga's and sabres, throw in some falcons and make that the standard mission NPC fit, and work from there.

this should make it a pretty good challenge - and to raise difficulty a bit we can throw in some rapiers and sniping/rr battleships?

?? Discuss!

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:27:00 - [607]
 

The tracking on the sentries is a little rediculous imo. I don't mind getting volleyed in a cruiser but there is no way to avoid the sentry damage it's kinda lame going in there with a diverse fleet if the small stuff just gets insta popped. (NOT very realistic from a pvper's point of view.) Sure medium guns hit you in pvp, but they certainly don't volley you.

The rest is fine, the BS's are tough, they hit hard, they don't have insane tracking like the sentries.

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.03.12 16:30:00 - [608]
 

Originally by: Connen
How about if we put all the NPC's in pre-nerf nano/overdrive/booster/snake vaga's and sabres, throw in some falcons and make that the standard mission NPC fit, and work from there.

this should make it a pretty good challenge - and to raise difficulty a bit we can throw in some rapiers and sniping/rr battleships?

?? Discuss!


No that would be cheating.

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.03.12 16:35:00 - [609]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
The tracking on the sentries is a little rediculous imo. I don't mind getting volleyed in a cruiser but there is no way to avoid the sentry damage it's kinda lame going in there with a diverse fleet if the small stuff just gets insta popped. (NOT very realistic from a pvper's point of view.) Sure medium guns hit you in pvp, but they certainly don't volley you.

The rest is fine, the BS's are tough, they hit hard, they don't have insane tracking like the sentries.


Just took a look, there tracking is worse than the BS, if it helps they don't use the new AI. They are just like any other sentry gun.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2009.03.12 16:45:00 - [610]
 

Edited by: Megan Maynard on 12/03/2009 16:47:46
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: Megan Maynard
The tracking on the sentries is a little rediculous imo. I don't mind getting volleyed in a cruiser but there is no way to avoid the sentry damage it's kinda lame going in there with a diverse fleet if the small stuff just gets insta popped. (NOT very realistic from a pvper's point of view.) Sure medium guns hit you in pvp, but they certainly don't volley you.

The rest is fine, the BS's are tough, they hit hard, they don't have insane tracking like the sentries.


Just took a look, there tracking is worse than the BS, if it helps they don't use the new AI. They are just like any other sentry gun.


So what you are saying is they stay aggro'd on whatever they shoot first? Didn't seem that way.

Then their sig shooting radius is low enough to mess up a lot of small stuff.

That or we were just too far away for tracking to take effect. I'll try it out tonight.

EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.03.12 18:33:00 - [611]
 

Originally by: CCP Incognito
Edited by: CCP Incognito on 12/03/2009 16:25:17
When we get done with fire fighting.. A rework of the NPC v PC e-war mechanics is very high on our list.


Good comment about the 4 scorps, what do you think the balance should be? 4 scorps keep 3,4,5,6 sleepers perma jammed?

As to the same layout, unfortunately there is a limited number of encounters for sleepers. If we could get infinite work out of people there would be more :) So at the moment if the name of the site is the same, the spawns are the same.

We would like to get them on more NPC also, but we will wait until we see the impact of the sleepers. If/when we do probably the named NPC will be the first to get the new AI.

Still trying to convince people that the Sleepers should be podding also... still no luck :(

Glad you are enjoying the new AI, let us know if we should up the damage on them? Twisted Evil




Well the biggest thing I can think of is atleast give them like ECM burst or the likes of, otherwise the people will just well jam them. I dont know how many sleeper bs should be jammed by 4 scorps. but Imho the whole ECM needs a rework anyways.

Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades
Posted - 2009.03.12 19:17:00 - [612]
 

I think you should look into the sleepers damage against small targets.
Frigates and cruisers are going down very fast. Bringing a couple frigates along with your gang should be a viable option but currently they get alpha'd.

Has anyone else seen this?

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.03.16 11:24:00 - [613]
 

Originally by: EliteSlave
< snip >but Imho the whole ECM needs a rework anyways.


Yea, it is high on our list of things to work on post release/ fire fighting time.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.03.16 11:30:00 - [614]
 

Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: EliteSlave
< snip >but Imho the whole ECM needs a rework anyways.


Yea, it is high on our list of things to work on post release/ fire fighting time.


I predict at least three threadnaughts based on this quote.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.03.16 11:33:00 - [615]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: EliteSlave
< snip >but Imho the whole ECM needs a rework anyways.


Yea, it is high on our list of things to work on post release/ fire fighting time.


I predict at least three threadnaughts based on this quote.


You mean 3 today, right?

ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
Posted - 2009.03.16 11:51:00 - [616]
 

there are 3 races that remain out of the ancients amoung them the talacon. Jan Yong etc is there any plans to give them 2500 w-space as well and also their own speclisation and ship types etc. ?

The New AI is ok, if youre solo u just focus on the lower end sites and convert that over time into some of the rarer stuff for youre t3 cruisers

Alternatively corps can of smaller size get certain reactions going etc. Purchase bits they dont have sell stuff they are in excess of etc.. add their own elements to the production chain

The AI eventually i think weaker sleeper perhaps more ancient ships more on par with existing pirate factions ( less tank damage etc) can be added in weaker Wspace systems or "weaker" sites the loot drops could be less but some of the mid to high stuff. U could then choose youre site according to difficulty level and ccp could maintain the harder sleepers as well ( taht would solve a lot of the whining) but keep the AI

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2009.03.16 11:54:00 - [617]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 12/03/2009 16:47:46
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: Megan Maynard
The tracking on the sentries is a little rediculous imo. I don't mind getting volleyed in a cruiser but there is no way to avoid the sentry damage it's kinda lame going in there with a diverse fleet if the small stuff just gets insta popped. (NOT very realistic from a pvper's point of view.) Sure medium guns hit you in pvp, but they certainly don't volley you.

The rest is fine, the BS's are tough, they hit hard, they don't have insane tracking like the sentries.


Just took a look, there tracking is worse than the BS, if it helps they don't use the new AI. They are just like any other sentry gun.


So what you are saying is they stay aggro'd on whatever they shoot first? Didn't seem that way.

Then their sig shooting radius is low enough to mess up a lot of small stuff.

That or we were just too far away for tracking to take effect. I'll try it out tonight.
Tachyons (all lasers?) hit for full damage on anything that it is able to hit, there's no sig penalty applied to the damage. At sufficient range tracking becomes almost irrelevant - so I guess the sentries are using the same logic - if you're 60km+ from them or whatever then they're gonna hit you no matter what.

ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
Posted - 2009.03.16 12:09:00 - [618]
 

Tackyon beam lasers are actually quite useful against the sleepers. Amarr = calderi combinations amarr for dps, calderi scorps domis for RR repping and minmatar for in close speed support for frigs

Gimpslayer
Posted - 2009.03.16 12:22:00 - [619]
 

Very happy to see and experience the Sleepers. There is joy in mudville!

Many thanks to all posters of fine contribution. Your time here has provided CCP with inspiration and ideas for change. Thank you.

Please CCP keep up your efforts toward more intelligient gameplay, they do not go unnoticed. Thanks!


Wraithbane
Posted - 2009.03.16 12:48:00 - [620]
 

Originally by: Gimpslayer
Edited by: Gimpslayer on 07/11/2008 17:06:39

GIVE US NPC AI


In no particular order please address:

1) NPC's who are smart enough to deal with threats accordingly. Please, If these sentient beings crafted spaceships (fcol) they'd know damn well to shoot the graver threats first regardless of who happened to have shot at them first.

2) NPC's which run away.

<<< and to a lesser extent >>>


3) NPC's change ammo type.

4) NPC trickery, stealth (OMFG), logistic ships.

6) Reduction of T1 Loot

7) NPC's commanding DRONES??? HELLO? YEA! STUPIDS!?!

8) NPC spider tanking. NPC's ransoming players. Oh my, there is no spoon.

9...) <your suggestions here>



~~~~~~
What is the matter with you CCP? Not since Goomba's in SMB have we seen dumber NPC's. The NPC stupidity is a reflection upon your product, your ability, and your attitude toward the PvE crowd.
~~~~~~


Lets please keep any replies focused on suggestions to PvE NPC AI and not the age old PvE vs PvP brewhaha. Thank you for your time.


If they could do all of that, they would be working for DoD and or DHS. Shocked Smile Whats known as strong AI is incredibly difficult to create. Not to mention, I'm NOT looking forward to when the Sleeper code is applied to rats in general.

Besides, CCP's main focus has always been PvP. They throw
bones to the PvE crowd, simply because they make up about
70% of the player base.


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