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CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.01.12 08:36:00 - [391]
 

Edited by: CCP Incognito on 12/01/2009 08:36:50
Hello all again..

Well the team is back from break, and we have our sprint planning done for this sprint. And it is full bore ahead on super secret Hus Hus stuff :) Oh wait what is this store, "Write a Dev blog" hmm. Guess you will have to wait and see whats in it.

I have seen allot of comments about the NPC communicating in chat channels.

So what do you think a better way of having NPC talk back tot he player should be?
I have seen suggestions for:
a) dedicated chat channel for NPC
b) A new Mission window with the mission details and a area for npc's to talk back.
c) Full voice acting (going to say now, not going to happen!)
d) pop up message like the damage display.

What is your favorite way for NPC to talk back?
Would having NPC Lay the Smak talk down in local be fun, or annoying?

Edit: ooo starting page 14!

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2009.01.12 08:44:00 - [392]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 12/01/2009 08:47:26
Edited by: MotherMoon on 12/01/2009 08:45:20
d) pop up message like the damage display.

NPCs talking in local has never been fun, just makes you think someone in local is talking. Plua it always shows up in all your windows, so someone in fleet is talking, someone in corp is talking. very dated system.

But not as terrible as a damage pop-up, has to have a face maybe, or a little animation to it. needs to be epic.

unless yo guys want to prgram something that lets you talk to the NPCs, then by all means go with the window just for talking with them.


One of the biggest things people whine about with the UI is there are too many windows yo have open, you can't even enjoy the game. Every time an NPC says something you have to open a window, blah blah blah. AWAY with the windows I say!

edit:maybe you should tie it to the targeting window or the overview. Have the overview or target window blink with a little incoming com sound. Then you double click or right click and the pop-p opens and then after time closes. We don't want to click the little x button to close the window either.

Maybe NPCs would only talk if your locked on to them?

no wait that would limit the mission team too much.


good luck you have 8 weeks!

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.01.12 08:57:00 - [393]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
But not as terrible as a damage pop-up, has to have a face maybe, or a little animation to it. needs to be epic.
...
good luck you have 8 weeks!


Yes I do like the idea of Face popping up and you see the text, maybe as a adjunct to the locked target section.

Hmmm... interesting...

Dang there are so many times I want to just wildly speculate on ideas but then there would be the person that would take it as the word of god and whine on the forms that we didn't deliver it. :( Makes me a sad dev.

But having a NPC face and message would open up the way to some other features, and maybe a way to have dialog with the NPC also. I will bounce it off the other devs and see if it sticks! You know, sort of like testing to see if spaghetti is done. :)

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2009.01.12 09:10:00 - [394]
 

Edited by: Nova Fox on 12/01/2009 09:12:19
A seperate detahcable window that removes unneeded chat interfaces and leaves it a basic 1 dimension chat channel if you will.

This is how I imagine this window working.

By default this window pops up beneath the location to the upper left when you first are issued a mission, you can goto the options tab and disable it.

A player can call up any mission to be brought into 'attention' by clicking the << or >> if they got multiple missions accepted, if not it will default to the only one accepted. Once on a desired mission this panel will give a sentence long paraphrased breif (omitable to save room but could ruin immersion slightly especially with so many missions being the same, the salt or pepper if you will,), the listed and tracked objectives (just no more saying objective complete, include phrases like return to base with the 'item' or return to base or destory this building), mission type (can be ommitted to save room), enemy type (also ommitable) This section can also be shrinkable to the name of the mission only using the ^ option similar to character sheet.

The middle section will act like a one way chat window, feeding the players all the information the mission generates such as npc chatter, alerts, cautions, and possibly 'challenges' npcs issue.

The bottom secton will contain a one line player input,
to include buttons for pre-selected options for this example a npc begging for his life because he was framed and if you spare him you get a new mission to get the guy that framed him but you fail the previous one (no major penalties though for that just no pay.) To the possible Password Input where you can type in a password made up of few clues peiced together to be lead to a room tailored around that passoword.

Ultimately in best or worse case scenario this could replace journal entirely having expanded mission browser to view full breifs on another window, and all the current tabs already on journal, and also be tallied to up to create a on the site mission advisor for deadspace dungeons which dont have standard mission breifing so players locked out of a gate coudl get clues on how to continue.

As a side note,
I would like to see some of the npcs get faces to, especially the ones we blow up alot like Zor, Krull, and Shadow and the rest of his goons. Though its not voice acting its a step closer as it will give us a face to hate or laugh at.

Also named people need to have thier own tricks thier own sleeves and behavior that makes them stick out. Give them the reason for being known, so far every one of these named guys are just another npc with bigger bounty and possibly dropping items named after themselves, things as simple has having Zor ram your ship off course when he first shows up is more than enough to make players know that this guy is definetly meaning business. Or make krull run away or warp in and out of the complex forcing you to chase him down though alot more dangerous obstacles, simple scriptable commands for these specific npcs shouldnt be to hard we are only asking this out of named characters and there are alot less of those than the 15k other enemy types in the game.

Anile8er
Five Fat Soldiers
Posted - 2009.01.12 09:14:00 - [395]
 

Edited by: Anile8er on 12/01/2009 09:14:07
I am mainly a 0.0 PVPer, but that also means I rat alot.

I think rats should be more like player ships when fighting them. But also the reward should be higher.
Examples:

A BS rat should be "tanked" according to the style of tank that race/faction would use to best suit the ship.

Amarr style BS rat with 40k-50k armor and 800+ dps (no rep)

A player jumps into a belt and finds one of these BS Rats with maybe 2 cruisers and a few frigs supporting. It would be a hell of a fight. The BS rat will hurt. You could not do it in the current "macro ratting" ship style that people use in game. You may even need a falcon alt or a mate in another ship to help you.

Total bounty after the fight could be upwards of 25mil isk plus loot.

Also the idea would be that you could not just biuld a ship like a HAC to roam belt to belt and kill an infinite number of BS. Belting would actually require a plan of attack.

Currently I can get in my Ishtar and go belt to belt killing BS spawns and never drop below 85% shields. How realistic is that really.

I'm sure I will get flamed but its just my thoughts

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.01.12 09:38:00 - [396]
 

Originally by: Anile8er
Edited by: Anile8er on 12/01/2009 09:14:07
I think rats should be more like player ships when fighting them. But also the reward should be higher.
...
Currently I can get in my Ishtar and go belt to belt killing BS spawns and never drop below 85% shields. How realistic is that really.

I'm sure I will get flamed but its just my thoughts


As stated above, we are changing belt rats as little as possible, just because there are so many players that rat for there income to support the pvp side of things.

Having said that we are trying to move the new NPC (and some of them will show up the odd time in belts) to be more PvP in nature where going against them in your normal PvE setup would be like jumping into a player PvP in a PvE. Lots of pretty exploding, just not theirs. Laughing

You will see the new NPC primarily in what you find on the other side of the wormholes and that is all I am going to say about what is in wormholes.

Anile8er
Five Fat Soldiers
Posted - 2009.01.12 09:46:00 - [397]
 

Well the income from ratting would still be there with bounties like that.

Its a win win for CCP really.

You force te ISK farming semi/afk ratters out of the belts.
-and-
You force people who want to go to 0.0 and rat to buy a second account and train a falcon or logistics cruiser alt.

A well setup ratting op could generate significant income with the kind of bounties/rats that I am suggesting.

But like I said, just my suggestions......

CCP Ytterbium

Posted - 2009.01.12 10:08:00 - [398]
 

Originally by: Anile8er
Edited by: Anile8er on 12/01/2009 09:14:07
Good concerns here


As CCP Incognito already hinted, we are currently in the process of creating new NPC types for wormhole space that will be far more challenging for pod pilots that the ones currently existing. They will mostly require PvP fittings, team effort and coordination to handle since they will have approxilately player comparable attributes and more advanced AI than just the plain "target and shoot".

We will unveil more on this when we have more definite information to share, you don't want us to spoil all the fun, do you Twisted Evil?

Anile8er
Five Fat Soldiers
Posted - 2009.01.12 10:13:00 - [399]
 

Sounds good and hope to see it

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2009.01.12 10:19:00 - [400]
 

True hostile npc fleet formations would be neat to see, instead of just blobs of them orbiting you.

Onyx Asablot
The Vicious Circle
Posted - 2009.01.12 10:23:00 - [401]
 

Edited by: Onyx Asablot on 12/01/2009 16:06:02
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
As CCP Incognito already hinted, we are currently in the process of creating new NPC types for wormhole space that will be far more challenging for pod pilots that the ones currently existing. They will mostly require PvP fittings, team effort and coordination to handle since they will have approxilately player comparable attributes and more advanced AI than just the plain "target and shoot".

We will unveil more on this when we have more definite information to share, you don't want us to spoil all the fun, do you Twisted Evil?


This sounds.... fantastic. Great idea to keep the (majority of the) current AI the same, but to add the more advanced AI in the new areas.

I'm looking forward to having NPC interdictors dropping bubbles on my head Twisted Evil

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.01.12 11:46:00 - [402]
 

I ran two missions tonight - Vengeance and Blockade.

In Vengence the player's ship arrives smack bang in the middle of a huge fleet of Angel Cartel ships. I proceeded to aggro the whole room and kite them while my friend warped in and sniped everything to death.

In Blockade I did the ritual warp in, turn & burn. Take out the stasis tower, reach my favourite spot 90km up from the star gate. My friend warped in on top of me and hit the afterburner to fly another 30km "up". Then we just sniped everything to death, without paying attention to triggers.

In some ways I want missions to be easy so I can relax while making the money I want to have in store for doing some PvP. In other ways I want missions to be challenging so that I have a safe environment in which to try out new tactics.

Having NPC interceptors that do spider tanking while webifying and warp scrambling might end up being too powerful for young players. On the other hand, paper-thin frigates that might scram, might webify or might just sit back and poke at you with a sharp stick - these become boring quickly, especially when one has the obligatory flight of 5 light drones specially to deal with frigates.

The jump to level 5 missions is huge - not only are the missions tougher, they're in lowsec too and you have to face real PvP combat.

It would be nice if level 3 and level 4 missions could be toughened up a bit. Remote repping on the interceptors, a bit more EWAR, enemy ships that actually use drones. This would be fun, in the way of training PvE folks to prepare for PvP without the risk of being podded.

F'elch
Wall Street Trading
Posted - 2009.01.12 11:59:00 - [403]
 

In order to make PVE fun:

1. All NPCs die after one hit.

2. All NPCs have a bounty of at least 1 million ISK.

3. All NPCs drop faction loot.

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.01.12 12:10:00 - [404]
 

for my self i wish you could expand on missions to plexes at time more so when you get some local messege destress call sent.

my idea would be you being able to track it even if it was down to a skill you needed to train even one that you train i.e. level 1 gives you system then each lvl gives you x jump range then lvl 5 gives you region and for your agent to link into it this could even lead into low sec where the reward would be high making it the risk vs the reward.

this could also be set to work the other way where you track a messege and find two factions fighting i.e. serps vs blood raders and then maybe one of them inviting you to help them giving your standing to that faction a boost and an item for your help or at the end of it they could turn agents you.

Drak Xenon
The Flaming Sideburn's
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
Posted - 2009.01.12 12:41:00 - [405]
 

Originally by: F'elch
...
3. All NPCs drop faction loot.
...


lots of faction stuff = very cheap faction stuff

Drak

Maria Kalista
Amarr
Knights of Kador
Posted - 2009.01.12 13:16:00 - [406]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn

It would be nice if level 3 and level 4 missions could be toughened up a bit. Remote repping on the interceptors, a bit more EWAR, enemy ships that actually use drones. This would be fun, in the way of training PvE folks to prepare for PvP without the risk of being podded.



Only if you could do something against that EWAR besides blowing the rats up.
To see what I mean is go back in lvl4 blockade and meet the second wave at 20-30 km's.
You'll get bored to death having to wait for your drones to chew through all the scrammers.

And note: not everybody can (at least when they first start) snipe from 90 km or has enough skills to out run the rats like you just describe.
Like CCP has said it is a careful balance they have to tend to.

Animka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.01.12 13:33:00 - [407]
 

Edited by: Animka on 12/01/2009 13:35:54
Quote:
In order to make PVE fun:

1. All NPCs die after one hit.

2. All NPCs have a bounty of at least 1 million ISK.

3. All NPCs drop faction loot.


And as its stands now:

1. Only frigates die after one hit.

2. Most NPCs bountys are in range of 1k - 250k ISK.

3. None of NPCs in missions drop faction loot. (If something still does - than its a bug - petition it.)

Sure there is a room for some improvement. :)

Ivana Drake
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.12 13:34:00 - [408]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Originally by: Anile8er
Edited by: Anile8er on 12/01/2009 09:14:07
Good concerns here


As CCP Incognito already hinted, we are currently in the process of creating new NPC types for wormhole space that will be far more challenging for pod pilots that the ones currently existing. They will mostly require PvP fittings, team effort and coordination to handle since they will have approxilately player comparable attributes and more advanced AI than just the plain "target and shoot".

We will unveil more on this when we have more definite information to share, you don't want us to spoil all the fun, do you Twisted Evil?


I can't wait Very Happy

Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.12 16:28:00 - [409]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Originally by: Anile8er
Edited by: Anile8er on 12/01/2009 09:14:07
Good concerns here


As CCP Incognito already hinted, we are currently in the process of creating new NPC types for wormhole space that will be far more challenging for pod pilots that the ones currently existing. They will mostly require PvP fittings, team effort and coordination to handle since they will have approxilately player comparable attributes and more advanced AI than just the plain "target and shoot".

We will unveil more on this when we have more definite information to share, you don't want us to spoil all the fun, do you Twisted Evil?


Hey! I remember you. Very Happy You gave me back a ship when I was a noob.

Ah, wait, constructive post.. uh...

It'd be sure nice to see more "intelligent" NPCs, and even if they are only deployed in the wormholes first, just, just don't make them something new, special and exciting! EVE is exciting enough as it is and it does not need some kind of strange "outerspace alien invaders" Smile

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2009.01.12 16:32:00 - [410]
 

For the NPC talk, I'd like to see some of the interface like in other spaceship/flight simulation games. The one where a picture of the person talking pops-up with the line they are saying underneath. Nice transparancy overlay on that, and it'll look pretty cool. Naturally a switch that turns the picture thing off as well, for those that don't like it. The text itself goes into the log automatically, so you can always look it up in there if you missed it.

I always wondered why EVE didn't have this already. It was really basic stuff from older games that worked quite well.

I'd look up pictures, but I have little time right now.

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2009.01.12 16:34:00 - [411]
 

Ohh, and I like that you've limited the better scripting for wormhole NPCs for now. That'll save a lot of whining from missioneers and ratters while still being able to test the new scripts.

Any news about what has been put on the backlog w.r.t. AI and what might be picked up for a new sprint?

Arestane
Posted - 2009.01.12 17:51:00 - [412]
 

Originally by: White Ronin

A blood bath that would make missioning dangerous and unpredictable.

Danger is fun.
Especially the unpredictable kind.



Dude, lay off the crack for a while. You cannot use PVP builds in PVE, as missions (AI or no AI) are designed for you to have a ship that can withstand all the hurt coming down from the NPCs thanks to rat specific resists and ammo and having a big enough tank to tank it all. You will not finish Blockade lvl4 in 2 minutes, before your "shield" is gone. Nor can you have situations where "Amarr fitted" player is pulled out of warp by Angels - that player will go home in a pod. And no, that is neither fun or exciting, but stupid.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.01.12 19:25:00 - [413]
 

Edited by: Cyprus Black on 12/01/2009 19:26:07
I would like to see fleets of hostile NPC fleets attacking stations, Concord, and the various faction navy's. Essentially make these hostile NPCs a little more proactive. Hell, maybe even a few friendly NPCs to assist in large combat scenarios.

I would also like to see a stronger PvE side of the game. Let's get away from the standard mission model of "Go here and shoot that". I would like more scripted events. More involvement than simply deploying drones and AFK'ing to go get a soda.

Richtor Mettle
Cryptic Solutions
Posted - 2009.01.12 19:32:00 - [414]
 

Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
For the NPC talk, I'd like to see some of the interface like in other spaceship/flight simulation games. The one where a picture of the person talking pops-up with the line they are saying underneath. Nice transparancy overlay on that, and it'll look pretty cool. Naturally a switch that turns the picture thing off as well, for those that don't like it. The text itself goes into the log automatically, so you can always look it up in there if you missed it.

I always wondered why EVE didn't have this already. It was really basic stuff from older games that worked quite well.

I'd look up pictures, but I have little time right now.


I have fond memories of Privateer 2. I loved the constant smack talk the ai would give you, and you could reply in kind. Very Happy It was very very fun. Game had issues, but that aspect was just plain fun.

Also, I'd like to see situations where NPC's are attacking a station and you and anyone around are suddenly conscripted to assist the station, by repping the station or attacking the rats or bringing supplies. Would increase the immersion imo. Just a thought.

Shadow Reconn
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.13 01:32:00 - [415]
 

c) Full voice acting (going to say now, not going to happen!)

It's not as expensive as you think. You may want to explore the possibility, at least..would be a nice addition.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2009.01.13 03:56:00 - [416]
 


Phantom Slave
Universal Pest Exterminators
Posted - 2009.01.13 05:18:00 - [417]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
As CCP Incognito already hinted, we are currently in the process of creating new NPC types for wormhole space that will be far more challenging for pod pilots that the ones currently existing. They will mostly require PvP fittings, team effort and coordination to handle since they will have approxilately player comparable attributes and more advanced AI than just the plain "target and shoot".

We will unveil more on this when we have more definite information to share, you don't want us to spoil all the fun, do you Twisted Evil?


You just made me all giddy EmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassed

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.01.13 08:41:00 - [418]
 

Originally by: Shadow Reconn
c) Full voice acting (going to say now, not going to happen!)

It's not as expensive as you think. You may want to explore the possibility, at least..would be a nice addition.


The expense is when you have to do the voice acting for all the languages that we support, and we are adding Russian next.

CCP Incognito

Posted - 2009.01.13 09:05:00 - [419]
 

Originally by: Arestane

Dude, lay off the crack for a while. You cannot use PVP builds in PVE, as missions (AI or no AI) are designed for you to have a ship that can withstand all the hurt coming down from the NPCs thanks to rat specific resists and ammo and having a big enough tank to tank it all.
...


Actually this is what we want to work towards where PvE combat requires a PvP like setup. This would allow players to be ratting and able fight off a PvP with the same setup. as it is now someone set up for PvE is a victim for a player jumping in and attacking. The PvE persons only options are to die, or run away and get a PvP fit.

This makes the experience of PvE in low sec very disappointing as allot of player want to focus on the mission/ ratting for the bounty and not hunting other players, at that moment.

This will make the playing field more even. If things work as I envision them working if a player jumps in and starts attacking another player while they are engaged with NPC's then the NPC might just take offense at the newcomer, then again maybe they won't.

We will have to see how it works in play testing.

P.s. No ETA on this on singularity yet so don't ask. :)

Kanya Nague
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.13 09:21:00 - [420]
 

Maybe im crazy, but...if you want the NPCs you hunt to behave like players and fit like players...why dont you just go and PvP?

Why do you feel its needed to change the NPCs so that a PvP fit is better than a current PvE fit?
You can do missions in pvp fits, you just choose a PvE fit because its optimal isk/time.
You choose the risky path that nets more money, i dont see a flaw here?

Next thing you do is making the best ore/time when mining being archieved by a pvp ship too, because the poor hulks dont have a chance to fight a decent ship themselves?


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