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blankseplocked Improving Lowsec
 
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Blastil
Posted - 2008.10.31 17:44:00 - [1]
 

Lowsec sucks for market and activity. A lot of people point to a lot of things, and complain about how gate camps are unfair, or what not, and how bad things are for the bear in lowsec. I opened up a topic on this in general discussion to get some ideas on how to solve this problem, and what I got (after filtering out the noobs whining about being able to be shot at) is a number of problems that, if solved, would improve lowsec. they are as follows

1) Lowsec is easily camped, and it is near impossible for trade to happen in lowsec thanks to this.
2) Lowsec lacks a real insentive to fly high-value ships that can make high ISK/Hour with missions, or mining.
3) Lowsec lacks unique atributes that make it any different than highsec (why risk when you can get reward for none!)

Problem 1: The Spice must FLLLOOOOW! Before any kind of trade can happen in lowsec, you must first be able to enter. Now, as someone who knows the ins and outs of the area where I live, its easy for me to outmanuver lowsec regions. I know where the camps are, and I know who camps them, but not everyone is privi to such insider information. Recent changes to the blockade runner certainly make this more possible, but I think that stopping there is a half-baked solution. I think that pipes simply shouldn't exist in lowsec, atleast, not like the do today. Lets take rancer for example (since I know the problem all too well) Rancer nets a massive total of over 100 kills a day. This is not because the rancer pirates are awesome, but rather that they camp that gate with smartbombs 24/7. Why does this work? Rancer is the ONLY lowsec pipe from Jita to Minmatar space. Lowsec simply shouldn't work like this. A pilot should be able to cross from one end of the universe to the other using only lowsec and nullsec systems, additionally, lowsec should have more networks of pipes, rather than a single pipe. Most lowsec systems only have a handful of systems worth camping, and they're burning hot in kills. Players must be able to bypass critical choke points (at the expense of more time, or ISK).

Probem 2: Simple- Improve the quality of the existing agents in lowsec. You should be able to make up to 2X the ISK in loot and rewards for missions in lowsec. Additonally, an insentive might be to make it so L4's dont sent you far to finish the missions. this also ties in w/ problem 1, where you don't want to get caught in a camp.

Problem 3: Complexes are cool. they're also stupid. It requires a whole corperation of people to find/finish/not die in one, and the reward is typicaly a meager half a mil for all that risk. Pointless. Lowsec needs a VALID reason to be there, like a specific component to make T3 items Razz or maybe all of your cosmos complexes should be out there. Once you place something UNIQUE and VALUABLE in lowsec, why not keep on going by NOT PROLIFERATING IT. Don't put it in 0.0, don't put it in Highsec. The problem with Lowsec has always been that we try to make it "the mid point" between highsec carebearing and 0.0 politics. And like all mid points in real life, you only stop by on your way through.

Tl;dr:
1) More complex pipes in Lowsec
2) Alter mission structure in Lowsec to match the difficulties there
3) Give Lowsec a unique money making device.

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.31 18:10:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Duhmad IbnRa on 31/10/2008 18:15:27
signed..

oops thats not constructive..., right mr. ISD????

one possible solution to problem no. 1 could be stargates with more sentries, which require payment upon use...


Aiko Intaki
Lodizal Shield Tek
Lodizal Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.10.31 18:50:00 - [3]
 

Two better solutions to populating low-sec:

1. Modify NPC bounties.
2. Increase time investment involved in scanning down other players.

Detail:

1. Lower bounties on all NPCs (missioning or otherwise) in high sec by 33% of their current value. Increase bounties on all NPCs (missioning or otherwise) in low sec by 33% of their current value. Leave 0.0 NPC bounties as they currently are. Don't mess with loot or salvaging, as it'll encourage a low-sec compatible mission running style that's sort of a DPS-blitz/bounty style. With both a bounty and LP/reward advantage in low-sec missions, high-sec missioners would then need to invest time in salvaging and looting to draw similar rewards to low-sec missioning.

2. Give missioners and miners more time to react to (and avoid) low-sec PvP if they're paying attention. You could do this through lockable acceleration gates, which would require some skill-based time sink for would-be pirates to bypass (perhaps working off hacking?). You could also do this through a deployable module that missioners and miners alike could use to significantly reduce the likelihood of scanning down anything on the same grid they're deployed in. In either case, the easy way with which a drone-using missioner is scanned down needs to be addressed.

Crewman Steve
Posted - 2008.10.31 21:09:00 - [4]
 

Are they getting rid of the insta update local channel in the next patch, too? Or is that only in 0.0?

If they are, thats another item on the risk side, at least for ratters and miners.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2008.10.31 22:57:00 - [5]
 

Now a POV from a pirate:
I agree with some of it...

1) Rancer is the pirate Jita. If you are not a Rancer pirate, and you are going through Rancer... You better have a plan. I did not like making the long trip around Rancer either, but realistically there is nothing stopping you from getting some friends together and breaking their gate camp up. Furthermore nothing in the world is stopping you from making bookmarks to warp to points around their gate camps and go right to the gate. Its not like they can put bubbles up. That goes for every single low sec gate camp in this game, you actually have no idea the advantage you could have on the gates.

2) Yeah there needs to be better rewards for doing missions in low sec, however if they just moved all level 4 agents to or next to low sec, you may see some more balance there. Ive done a handfull of level 5's and they just are not worth it.

3) Complexes, you are right, complexes are not worth it at all. Smile

My own thoughts:
I think it would be interesting if for industrial ships (mining barges and cap industrial) to have a little bit of a boost in 0.4 systems. This boost could be - a 25-50% chance of concord response if attacked. I personally think its lame to attack barges unless you are waging major war with someone and need to get at their resources. Or even if there was a 'distress' rig that you could put on barges that would get you concord safety in .4-.3

However, to balance that out, I think it would also be nice to have a 25-50% chance concord will NOT respond in .5 systems.

Tykkis
Posted - 2008.11.01 01:10:00 - [6]
 

Players could have influence which systems are patrolled by concord. Or how jumpgates are connected. In realworld roads and railroads are built where they are mostly needed.

Say some distant lowsec system has alot of market activity and alot of population, game could adjust to it and generate long distance jump from hisec. Or connect the system into empire by making 0.5 route there.

The idea has realworld basis but has many gameplay issues, just a thought.

Revan Orillion
Posted - 2008.11.01 03:05:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Revan Orillion on 01/11/2008 03:10:49
1-CONCORD reponse. Lowsec is not 0.0 space. Where 0.0 space is WITHOUT any police activity, lowsec is supposedly the area where police rarely go. A nice way to both scatter troublesome camps, as well as not making it to hard for player who wish to pirate, why not empliment a police response feature?

When so many ships are killed over a certain amount of time, CONCORD musters a fleet to take out those pirates, and secure the system for a hour or two. This would allow players to get to where they need to go, AND give miners some security since it would be stupid to attack a miner under CONCORD's watchful eyes.

It could even tie into the backstory of EVE. CONCORD got its reputation hurt by the loss of their headquarters, so in order to get some faith back into their organization they do these little Anit-Pirate response fleets. it may even excite some pirate playes to get a CONCORD kill every once in a while.

2- Its true. the only real incentive to fly in lowsec is you can freely PvP without worrying about some huge corp slamming you for killing its members. Maybe they could have unique lowsec missions? Escort missions were you fly from one system to another guarding a NPC ship. Other missions unique to lowsec would be a great incentive. A nice big security rating pay system would be good. Th lower the system security rating, the higher the pay. A lev 4 mission in 1.0 would pay 2mil while a lev 2 mission in 0.3 would pay 5mil. Not including salvage.

3- The unique missions and variable mission pay would be great incentive for lowsec visits. EVEN BETTER would be having a POS that attracted NPC tourists from highsec that netted you a nice daily money boost. Add the fact the fact that more tourists means a greater need for police pressence and you get certain systems that have semi frequent CONOCRD patrols and agressive skirmishes over the most popular tourist areas.

Yet another point that ties into the backstory. Large numbers of people who wish to see the sights of the universe before war truelly engulfs the empires.

Great Smirnov
Posted - 2008.11.01 23:18:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Revan Orillion

1-CONCORD reponse. Lowsec is not 0.0 space. Where 0.0 space is WITHOUT any police activity, lowsec is supposedly the area where police rarely go. A nice way to both scatter troublesome camps, as well as not making it to hard for player who wish to pirate, why not empliment a police response feature?
When so many ships are killed over a certain amount of time, CONCORD musters a fleet to take out those pirates, and secure the system for a hour or two. This would allow players to get to where they need to go, AND give miners some security since it would be stupid to attack a miner under CONCORD's watchful eyes.


I really like this idea. I would make the probability of the spawns based on the security status of both parties. Pirates fighting each other - CONCORD do not care. Pirates killing or even PODing people that proved to be loyal with security status above 2 or 3 than concord will most likely interfere.
Originally by: Revan Orillion

2- Its true. the only real incentive to fly in lowsec is you can freely PvP without worrying about some huge corp slamming you for killing its members. Maybe they could have unique lowsec missions? Escort missions were you fly from one system to another guarding a NPC ship. Other missions unique to lowsec would be a great incentive. A nice big security rating pay system would be good. Th lower the system security rating, the higher the pay. A lev 4 mission in 1.0 would pay 2mil while a lev 2 mission in 0.3 would pay 5mil. Not including salvage.


Will not work. The risk being killed is very high, higher then in 0.0, the reward still be too low. You still need solid expensive ship of at least ca. 100-150 mil to do missions and PvE fit. On the other hand pirates have no problem to fight you at all, they do not need a tank, jammer will do the job, they do not need the firepower, rats will do the job for them, just few neuts and that's it. Way toooooooo easy, falcon or even blackbird with the fitting for 10 mil will do the job.
Odds are by far not even, mission runner has no chance.
May be the solution would be that if a pirate enters the mission support vessels will show up. Or even better is to allow henchmen NPC be hired for the mission. At least then a pirate will face a challenge and not a defenseless sitting duck.

Akiba Penrose
The Praxis Initiative
Posted - 2008.11.02 01:38:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: "blastil"

1) Lowsec is easily camped, and it is near impossible for trade to happen in lowsec thanks to this.


Im not sure what you mean with easily camped? In my experience there isnt much of a problem getting even a freighter into low sec. It just requires a little more effort then to turn on the autopilot. Low sec has changed a lot after FW.

Originally by: "blastil"

2) Lowsec lacks a real insentive to fly high-value ships that can make high ISK/Hour with missions, or mining.


I agree, you dont get any richer in low sec then in high. You might earn a few more mill per mission, but that gets evened out when you have to dock up because you have visitors in your mission. Not sure if just increasing the quality of the agents will be sufficient. New stuff is needed imo.

I do missions in low sec because i like the action and dont care that much about the isk/hour ratio. But if you want to attract the real grinders they will have to make more isk in low sec then in high sec, AFTER the pirates have got their cut, only then will low sec be attractive to them.

PS
I think the devs have said that their working on new stuff for low sec tho,, more exploration or something like that.



 

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