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Fenix12
Doom Guard
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.11.04 19:11:00 - [331]
 

Make industrials and mining barges immune to warp scramblers and you'll get lots more people in low and nul sec.

Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.04 19:13:00 - [332]
 

make 0.0 worth more?

it sucks atm for risk vs reward. (lol zyd in empire)

Connner
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.11.04 19:44:00 - [333]
 

Originally by: Fenix12
Make industrials and mining barges immune to warp scramblers and you'll get lots more people in low and nul sec.


Or make a warp stab module that can fit only to a certain indy type ship that has infinate sab points. Or at least some form of countering a HIC or dictor.

Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.04 20:03:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
You reject the concept of any obligation to support the team in order to have safe access to those belts and moons and rats and you wonder why they're not interested in sharing.


And those who insist on those 'obligations' frequently fail and fall apart if they do too much of it. For which see Souls of Vengeance (and plenty of others).

Yes, Malcanis, people do frequently reject obligations on their liesure time. They may accept responsibilities and fulfill those self imposed obligations that they feel that they must, but that's not the same thing.

Being in many of those Alliances is just too much like work, and really who needs another job?

Amael Galenus
Mighty Moshin Emo Rangers
Posted - 2008.11.04 20:03:00 - [335]
 

The simple truth of why people don't bother with low sec? The following is how much I can make if I mine the following ores for 1 hour:


------------ Empire (1 to 0.5) ------------
Veldspar
1,935,360

Scordite
1,924,435.304

Pyroxeres
1,650,164.653

Plagioclase
1,870,857.963


------------ Low Sec (0.4 to 0.1) ------------
Omber
1,723,458.54

Kernite
2,260,771.43

Jaspet
1,744,300.874

Hemorphite
2,489,398.936

Hedbergite
3,052,215.448


------------ 0.0 ------------
Gneiss
6,610,229.545

Dark Ochre
6,236,371.44

Spodumain
3,783,119.8

Crokite
12,446,763.26

Bistot
13,557,247.76

Arkonor
12,018,101.93

Mercoxit
17,698,292.95

-----------------------------


Things to note:

1) Mining in Low Sec offers, at most, 1mil more ISK per hour... at the "risk" (more like certainty) of loosing my ship/pod

2) Massive jump in ore value as you enter 0.0 instead of a proportional gradient based on sec value


Given the option of earning 2mil per hour in near guaranteed safety OR earning 3mil per hour in a shark tank, why would ANY sane person ever choose low sec? Low sec is just borked beyond belief, period!

The same applies for rat values & drops- with ratting you CAN make more in Low Sec than in Empire but it's not that much more and it's certainly not worth the risk.

I've lived in low sec for the majority of my time in Eve- all of my ISK has come from ratting & mining. However, I now simply couldn't be arsed with the risk anymore- the reward is just not worth the hassle.


My suggestions:

1) Fix Low Sec ore- put 0.0 ores in 0.1 to 0.2 (maybe 0.3) space. This MIGHT encourage miners/industrialists to Low Sec and it won't be of benefit to the pirates as they hate mining.

2) Bring back DECENT Low Sec faction drops- i.e. snake implants etc. I got one on my first night in Low Sec and it was the sole reason why I stayed down there so long (i.e. the chance of hitting it big again). However, the Low Sec faction drops got nerfed in the extreme long ago and don' t seem to have looked at since. It would tempt newbies down to Low Sec to play Russian roulette... either find a very valuable item or die trying- the reward WOULD balance the risk if you have a chance of getting a rare 100mil drop. Again, this should be of no benefit to the pirates as it's a "luck of the draw" situation.

3) Take most of the exploration sites out of Empire and buff the Low Sec ones- like the Low Sec ores, there's currently not much difference in the reward compared to what you can find in Empire. Again, not of benefit to pirates as it's not their preferred gameplay style.

5) Make PVE content doable with a PVP fit. Have two different versions of missions and rats- just before the mission or rats spawn, scan the players ship, if they've a PVE fit then give them tons of PVE rats, if they've a PVP fit then give them a few "hard" PVP rats. Scanning too hard to code? Then just give the player a flag or module that tells the mission/rats that they're PVP fitted. The gap between the playstyles has to be closed f you want people to naturally progress from PVE to PVP- they're currently two entirely different games within Eve.

4) Fix bounty hunting- seriously... no sec hit with a good bounty reward will give the carebears an incentive to fight (asides from revenge)

Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.04 20:46:00 - [336]
 

Originally by: Cat Molina
I'm not a pirate. I don't know what the hell I am... but it's certainly not a pirate. <snippage>


Based on that description, I think it would be appropriate to call you a duelist.

We should set up a fight sometime, Cat. I like your style and I'd probably learn something even while losing.


Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.04 20:52:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
I wouldn't wanna play this game as a single character industrialist. Most of my potential clients would already have dedicated alts for doing precisely what i do.


It's drifting far off topic but I entirely agree about the metagaming aspect.

I have one account. I have two characters, the second of which was created to do Factional Warfare but hasn't yet got the standings to join a militia yet. Given how little time I have to fly him and the fact that I can't justify the expense of another account to let him train while I train Jarvis he'll probably never amount to much.

I think that multiple Alts are horrible for the game and break all kinds of mechanics, but I realize that is a very minority and probably unpopular opinion.

KAELA MENSHA
Posted - 2008.11.04 21:10:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Venduras
"What would it take to get carebears out to low and nulsec?"

CONCORD? Laughing
IdeaIdeaIdeaIdea
How about sec status increases over time as civilisation moves in. ???
and 0.0 expands as space is exploredVery Happy

Joe Cyber
Posted - 2008.11.04 23:02:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: KAELA MENSHA

How about sec status increases over time as civilisation moves in. ???
and 0.0 expands as space is explored


This is a good idea.

The entire High Sec -> Low Sec -> Null Sec concept has been a gigantic fail for CCP. It looked good on paper. When I started playing five years ago and the peak users was less than 3000, it worked.

However, it did not take into account human behavior and real life bleed over into the game. I believe at last count, the significant majority of character are in high sec. There has never been the spread out that was intended. Null Sec is a fail in the way it is occupied and the strictures placed on getting there. Low sec has been a cesspool for more than four years.

I think it is time to take the whole concept back to the drawing board.

Cat Molina
Minmatar
Intransigent
Posted - 2008.11.04 23:19:00 - [340]
 

Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
Originally by: Cat Molina
I'm not a pirate. I don't know what the hell I am... but it's certainly not a pirate. <snippage>


Based on that description, I think it would be appropriate to call you a duelist.


Actually, I hate duels. Laughing They're so artificial.

That guy in the assault frig was something of a duel. I'd chased around the system looking for him, but he kept moving constantly. I'd sit in belts and try to bait him out... no success. Decided to call off the chase and go home for the night, but as I drop out of warp at a planet, I see him also appear 100k away. So, I asked if he wanted to fight.

He said yes, and I began covering the distance towards him. Then, as I approached, he said 'Hold on... going to go get a beer.' Laughing So I end up wondering if I should orbit at my preferred distance, or be fair and put myself at a disadvantage. I held off. Confused

It was a bit weird. I'm much more the type who says "Let's play!" in local and then let the hunt rage across the belts. The hunt is more fun than the kill anyway.

Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
We should set up a fight sometime, Cat. I like your style and I'd probably learn something even while losing.


Thanks. Sounds like fun and, to everyone out there, please feel free to attack me when you see me. Just be aware that I'm not crazy enough to take on battleships in my lil' bitty Rifter. (I used to be, but a couple of Ruptures and Cyclones taught me my place in the world.Laughing)

Blastil
Posted - 2008.11.05 00:49:00 - [341]
 

I'm going to take the chance after 12 pages to post my own argument, since its pretty obvious this got off topic pretty fast =P

Lowsec's major issue is a slow down in trade. W/ gatecamps it becomes almost impossible to move goods in and out as a SOLO player. When trade freezes, then mobility ceases, and people tend ot settle into one spot and not move, or leave the dead space for greener pastures. We are seeing this (gatecamps, etc, blobs). Before you can solve the problem w/ the lack of roaming gangs, and more dynamic PVP, you have to give pirates REASONS to do that kind of thing. YES THATS RIGHT, pirates aren't the only people who need valid reasons to do what they do. As it stands the only way your getting any money in lowsec is by gatecamping, and in nullsec, POS bashing is the only way to deal real damage to your foe (ships are easily replaced these days)

Carebears serve the role of offering targets in nullsec and lowsec. They are obvious targets- easily destroyed, easily found, w/ no ability to defend themselves. Any good corperation that wants PVP NEEDS CAREBEARS to attract combat. Any good corp of Carebears and industrialsits (I differenciate between the two) needs combat pilots to protect them in low and nullsec. Making big bucks in lowsec MUST REQUIRE THE WORK OF MANY PLAYERS, and the rwards should reflect that. To everyone who whines about how you cant solo in this game- too bad. Highsec is where you solo. Low and nullsec is where you gang up. unfortunately rewards in lowsec do not benifit working together, since its the same as highsec w/ almost twice the risk of 0.0.

The reason why I want to see more bears and industrialists in lowsec/nullsec is because it doesn't provide targets, it provides objectives. objectives drive PVP. Obejctives make players play this game. What we have right now is a treadmill w/ no insentive. That's great if you like running, but you need something to go for if you want to have fun in a game. I do enjoy the occasional bear kill of a CNR, or even the rare stupid freighter pilot, but what I really enjoy is the goal of inflicting real harm on some one's industry, and trying to bait a conflict. I have an OBJECTIVE when I gatecamp. Thats what Lowsec needs.

I realize certain mechanics make this hard- and I agree they should be fixed, but really, the only way we all have fun in this game is if we work together to provide benifits towards eachother's needs. We need bears in lowsec to defend and attack. Bears need PVPers to fight for them, since they can't. If your a saturday mission runner then this discussion probably doesn't really effect you, mainly because solo players need not apply for certain content in the game. Sounds harsh, but some content should be reserved for people who want to/have the time to sink into running a 0.0 empire, or what not. Its not bad that you can't its just something you aren't able to do.

Tl;Dr: Trade needs to happen in lowsec as well. There's a market, just no one doing that.

PVPers need bears in low and nullsec to provide objectives to defend and attack.

Any failiures you have at soloing in lowsec are purely your fault.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2008.11.05 00:58:00 - [342]
 

I don't want to read through 11 pages of text, so just in case noone has suggested it yet: Boost lvl V missions. A lot. Thank you for your attention.

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.11.05 01:54:00 - [343]
 

Edited by: Revolution Rising on 05/11/2008 01:57:39

Originally by: Blastil
Edited by: Blastil on 31/10/2008 15:07:22
CCP has been emphasizing getting carebears and industrialists out into lowsec and nullsec in a non-PVP role. At every turn this has fallen through, since it seems carebears are all dead set against risk in any shape or form. This is understandable I suppose. Most people want to log on Friday and Saturday to run a few missions, change production jobs, and chat with a few friends. But without Miners/maufacturers in Nullsec and lowsec, as well as mission runners, Low/Nullsec will forever be gimpped, since PVPers are mostly consumers only. CCP has tried and met with only limited success to get these players into more risky space, so I'll ask this question, aimed mostly at carebears and industrialists.

What would get YOU into Low and Nullsec?


Seriously, you guys sit there with 2-5 year old toons and pirate every low-sec system until you're at -10.0 sec status, then you CAN'T enter empire and it keeps you there. People earning 10m/hour in empire have NO vested interest in throwing their isk away by trying to compete with someone who's invested so many years in ALL PVP skills when they have no real interest in the PVP side of the game.

CCP continue to create more and more expensive ships for miners and industrialists and yet do not at all try to give miners something to hit back with or some fundamental advantage (even defensive) against pirates and stupids alike. People sit in low-sec destroying noob ships, shuttles and giggling about it. Why the hell should anyone be bothered subjecting themselves to the stupids that live there who blow up shuttles and frigs in their t2 cruisers for laughs?

Rather let the stupids kill each other and sell guns to them. Kinda like certain parts of the real world, isn't it?


Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2008.11.05 02:00:00 - [344]
 

Actually, all it would take is teamwork, and rewards large enough to justify it.

Lasus
The Scope
Posted - 2008.11.05 02:33:00 - [345]
 

Edited by: Lasus on 05/11/2008 02:33:41
Originally by: Illwill Bill
Actually, all it would take is teamwork, and rewards large enough to justify it.



I think the man has distilled the problem to its core.

I would love to be an arms dealer in low sec. I will admit I suck at combat, my character is set up for mining and industry. I know its dangerous to try to compare RL with EVE but in the real world arms dealers are not expected to fight. If a pirate group would just stop killing everyone and make a deal with industrial players to supply materials for them I think that would help open up the game. I see from other posts that the alliences and pirates have alts that do that for them.

Oh well I like to play with one account. It seems to me that as long as alts are around the teamwork side of the game for this is doomed to failure.

So I guess I will just keep plugging along maily in hi sec with occasional forays into low sec just to see what I can get away with. Wink

Calvin Roh
Posted - 2008.11.05 02:49:00 - [346]
 

So let me see if I have this right.. to put it a different way, your asking.... how do you get sitting duck targets with no hope of defending themselves to come to the places of the people who call themselves the entitled players of EVE because they prey on the helpless by sitting for hours waiting for a sucker to come along? I think you answered your own question...

Lets turn this subject on its side. Those that are unable to properly cooperate in a 0.0 alliance/corp (where its 100% about cooperative combat and true pvp, not gate camping for bunny rabbits), and so spend their time in the safety of low sec, are calling other players "care bears" because these supposed carebears choose to live in their version of a comfort zone - hypocrites!

How about one more turn on its side then... People who are constantly loosing ships and assets and regularly live on the border of EVE version of abject poverty (or sell GTCs to survive) are hot and bothered and claim that their way of playing the GAME Eve is truer than those that choose to play the GAME of Eve by loosing very little assets and grow their bank accounts by the millions and billions... I think you see where I am going.

Lets all agree that this thread will be the last Carebear complaint thread... please!!! Your sounding like a broke record. Take some of the advice i see the pvpers throwing at the carebears regularly - adapt or fail - highsec living is not going away so get over it. Eve is about economics, logistics, politics, social dynamics, value added asset growth, research and resource gathering. PVP - like mining, industry and science - are one of the many colors these aspects are realized through, so let folks play the game anyway they want and stop griping about it.

ah.. that feels better now that I got that off my chest... Ill get off my soap box now Wink

Daan Sai
Polytrope
Posted - 2008.11.05 02:54:00 - [347]
 

Originally by: Lasus
It seems to me that as long as alts are around the teamwork side of the game for this is doomed to failure.



This is a core flaw in Eve. Artifical meta-gaming where PvPers can hypocritically carebear on an alt is why they don't want/need to cooperate with industrialist who want to work in lowsec for everyone's benefit.

It goes way beyond alt scouting, with is already beyond lame.


Cat Molina
Minmatar
Intransigent
Posted - 2008.11.05 03:48:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: Calvin Roh
Those that are unable to properly cooperate in a 0.0 alliance/corp (where its 100% about cooperative combat and true pvp, not gate camping for bunny rabbits), and so spend their time in the safety of low sec, are calling other players "care bears" because these supposed carebears choose to live in their version of a comfort zone - hypocrites!


Depends on the alliance one was in. WinkLaughing

Originally by: Daan Sai
This [use of alts] is a core flaw in Eve. Artifical meta-gaming where PvPers can hypocritically carebear on an alt is why they don't want/need to cooperate with industrialist who want to work in lowsec for everyone's benefit.

It goes way beyond alt scouting, with is already beyond lame.


I don't alt scout in low-sec... without bubbles, I see no need. But only a covert ops, recon, inty, or brave fool would attempt any long journey in 0.0 without a scout alt.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.11.05 04:11:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: Blastil

The reason why I want to see more bears and industrialists in lowsec/nullsec is because it doesn't provide targets, it provides objectives. objectives drive PVP. Obejctives make players play this game. What we have right now is a treadmill w/ no insentive. That's great if you like running, but you need something to go for if you want to have fun in a game. I do enjoy the occasional bear kill of a CNR, or even the rare stupid freighter pilot, but what I really enjoy is the goal of inflicting real harm on some one's industry, and trying to bait a conflict. I have an OBJECTIVE when I gatecamp. Thats what Lowsec needs.



Low-sec doesn't need any of that.

My objective is to kill people and take their stuff, and have fun, simple as that. If I wanted to go fight for a greater cause, I'd have gone to do 0.0 alliance BS. Trying to make low-sec 'mini 0.0' is stupid. It's something different, and something fun. If you don't 'get' low-sec, well, fine. Don't ask for changes however.


Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.11.05 05:14:00 - [350]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 05/11/2008 05:21:43
Originally by: Calvin Roh

Lets turn this subject on its side. Those that are unable to properly cooperate in a 0.0 alliance/corp (where its 100% about cooperative combat and true pvp


LOL

I love 0.0 Endgamers with all the cliches.

DEFINITION


0.0 Cooperative Combat - Cooperate with the FC by following his exact comands regarding what time to log on, where to form up, movement, when to jump, when to uncloak, which targets to shoot and in which order.

0.0 True PvP-Uber Lag, 2 min module activation, appear on killboard of enemy before your screens loaded, write a snotty post on forums about lag whilst you are waiting for your armor repper to turn on. Doomsdayed back to station. Repeat. Crow smuggly about the "great war" or "great retreat" whilst alliance leaders siphone off funds ready to do a bunk. Contract all your items in station for knock down price. Head back to highsec to run lv4 missions to "build up again". Fly through lowsec on route and get podded by pirate. Send petition to CCP regarding "PIRATE CHEAT USING HEAVY INTERDICTOR BUBBLES IN LOWSEC".

***


0.0 PVPers are generally utter pansies, worthy of little more then the title "Fleet Commanders Extended Drone Bay" as they rush to follow his or her commands.

Fleet commanders are an exception to the rule, and are the only 0.0 pilots who can be called PVPers. Worthy of respect enough for stepping up and pvping on a macrocosmic scale, with 100s of drone players to order about.

SKUNK




Tobias Creed
Minmatar
SaberCorp
Posted - 2008.11.05 05:28:00 - [351]
 

Edited by: Tobias Creed on 05/11/2008 05:30:18
I really like the idea of decent bounties, based off of clone cost. There should be two bounties: Wanted, Pod or ship. The bounty on ship should be small and based off of market value like insurance. The bounty on pod should be 1/10th sec status times clone cost. This only goes away when sec status goes back up to 0+. and obviously, no sec status hit for killing anyone below -.5 in lowsec, and reduced between that and 0. This would do a lot to encourage anti-pirates to get together and break gatecamps. hell, I could see anti-pirate MOM pilots going around looking for gatecamps to kill. This makes -10 Sec standing more than just a status symbol.

The upcoming blockade runners are going to be sweet, and I'd like to get myself one sometime soon. They should allow us to establish real markets out in lowsec.

The yield on lowsec ores should be increased. Doubling the Zydrine yield from them would probably do the trick. Maybe some of the low end negsec ores should also show up in lowsec. Since people now get paid for killing pirates, it becomes a lot easier to arrange for mining escorts.

I don't think there needs to be too fundamental a change, just a few decent incentives. I'd be out in lowsec for more than just FW myself if it was profitable.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.11.05 07:20:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Blastil

Carebears serve the role of offering targets in nullsec and lowsec. They are obvious targets- easily destroyed, easily found, w/ no ability to defend themselves. Any good corperation that wants PVP NEEDS CAREBEARS to attract combat. Any good corp of Carebears and industrialsits (I differenciate between the two) needs combat pilots to protect them in low and nullsec. Making big bucks in lowsec MUST REQUIRE THE WORK OF MANY PLAYERS, and the rwards should reflect that. To everyone who whines about how you cant solo in this game- too bad. Highsec is where you solo. Low and nullsec is where you gang up. unfortunately rewards in lowsec do not benifit working together, since its the same as highsec w/ almost twice the risk of 0.0.



"I want you as bait"

Thank you, no, that role don't interest most of us.

Mal Lokrano
Gallente
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.11.05 07:24:00 - [353]
 

well i always avoided lowsec cause every time i went in i got blowed up by some pirate who was 40x better than me Laughing

tbh though incentives won't work. All they do is cause a spike in numbers, which in turn result in a spike of pirates, which result in a spike in carebear losses, and finally result in lowsec returning to the wasteland of pirates it is.

People simply don't see lowsec profitable enough vs. risk to go there.

i am not afraid of lowsec anymore tbh, 0.0 cured that for me Smile

Cat Molina
Minmatar
Intransigent
Posted - 2008.11.05 07:44:00 - [354]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
LOL

I love 0.0 Endgamers with all the cliches.

DEFINITION


0.0 Cooperative Combat - Cooperate with the FC by following his exact comands regarding what time to log on, where to form up, movement, when to jump, when to uncloak, which targets to shoot and in which order.

0.0 True PvP-Uber Lag, 2 min module activation, appear on killboard of enemy before your screens loaded, write a snotty post on forums about lag whilst you are waiting for your armor repper to turn on. Doomsdayed back to station. Repeat. Crow smuggly about the "great war" or "great retreat" whilst alliance leaders siphone off funds ready to do a bunk. Contract all your items in station for knock down price. Head back to highsec to run lv4 missions to "build up again". Fly through lowsec on route and get podded by pirate. Send petition to CCP regarding "PIRATE CHEAT USING HEAVY INTERDICTOR BUBBLES IN LOWSEC".

***


0.0 PVPers are generally utter pansies, worthy of little more then the title "Fleet Commanders Extended Drone Bay" as they rush to follow his or her commands.

Fleet commanders are an exception to the rule, and are the only 0.0 pilots who can be called PVPers. Worthy of respect enough for stepping up and pvping on a macrocosmic scale, with 100s of drone players to order about.

SKUNK


This made my day. Very Happy

<3 Le Skunk

Letrange
Minmatar
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.11.05 12:59:00 - [355]
 

I should point out the irony of pirates complaining about the lack of low sec industrial presence when most of them have carebear alts to make the isk they need to fly in low sec. Very few pirates can consistently make isk solely in low sec.

So the question is: Why don't the pirate's carebear alts go in to low sec and make their isk there?

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.11.05 13:11:00 - [356]
 

Originally by: Letrange
I should point out the irony of pirates complaining



Where? The guy complaining is someone with a definite 0.0 mentality and quite certainly NOT a pirate. Well known pirates in the thread are saying 'low-sec is fine, stfu'.

Originally by: Letrange

about the lack of low sec industrial presence when most of them have carebear alts to make the isk they need to fly in low sec. Very few pirates can consistently make isk solely in low sec.



I know I do, and a number of successful pirates do. People who don't make ISK from piracy are not successful pirates. Simple as that.

Originally by: Letrange

So the question is: Why don't the pirate's carebear alts go in to low sec and make their isk there?


Because highsec has best risk/reward. A good part of 0.0 resident also have high-sec mission alts.

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.11.05 14:50:00 - [357]
 

Edited by: Revolution Rising on 05/11/2008 14:56:18


Rationalisation after rationalisation, bordering on insanity Blastil.

Using your own logic, you have no objectives because you're in the wrong part of the map and should be moving into 0.0. The objective would then be for you to take space off one of the larger alliances like Goons or BoB.

I dare say you have about as much chance as the carebear sitting mining in your low-sec systems.

Get real.

This is very little different to the argument about small corps joining alliances.
"We're only 15 guys, can we join your alliance?"
"No not enough people, get more people"
"Can't get more 0.0 pilots without being in 0.0 however."
"Yeah sux to be you."

Your rational:
"Get some PVP guys to protect you in low-sec."
---
"Come join our mining and industry corp with your PVP toons, we offer no ops and no other PVPers to help until we recruit some more guys."

At that point you either have to start an alliance and recruit corps, and you'll run into one of the above problems anyhow.

Ego is a huge issue in EVE with many corp CEO's and Alliance Executors. They believe in certain "rules" after a while and have no idea where the exceptions to that rule might lay (like the 'no small corps' rule for alliances) - any of these suggestions for low-sec living require to some degree an exception to those rules.

In reality they are few and far between.

elric gallach
Posted - 2008.11.05 14:56:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: NewAgeMiner
tbh the sort of self-professed 'hardcore pvp' alliances they require people to be on all the time or to log on at any time of day for ops or get booted are usually filled by unemployed/nerdy teenagers with no serious RL commitments.

I think some of these people need to put down the mouse and take up a life...... ugh


Amen to that

Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Dead poets society
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2008.11.05 15:07:00 - [359]
 

I often have level 4 missions in low sec really. but it's usually in a very quiet part of the map. In fact yesterday whilst doing a 8 jump courier mission through lowsec, i only saw one person and he'd just warped off as i arrived at the gate.

elric gallach
Posted - 2008.11.05 15:29:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: Tiswable
Edited by: Tiswable on 04/11/2008 12:14:53
Of course it's boring to be a lowsec pirate these days.

Lets face it, it's really very very easy to kill missioners/miners/haulers in lowsec.
It has been for several years now.


Can you blame them for figuring it out?

That's why they stopped living in lowsec and have now all but stopped flying into lowsec.

And what does it matter if the level4 rewards are so much higher in lowsec if we're able to pop them over and over again with such ease?

Move all level 4 missions to lowsec, and the next whine will be to move all level 3 missions to lowsec.
The existing risk versus reward gap is THAT huge...

What changed to make it so easy?

1 new weapon, 1 dumbed-down old system, and simple sums of scale.

1) HIC's were introduced. Infinite scram "iwin" buttons. Paired with a rapier on a gate with snipers scattered around, slow aligning ships are easy meat. Four or five in such a gang is enough to take down teams of three or four mission fit (non-PVP optimal) battleships. And flexible enough to run if they turn out to be bait - if we're stupid enough to miss them when the anti-pies appear in the local lists of our alts one or two systems away.

2) Probing missioners is pathetically easy. Create a handfull of safespots. Set scanner to a few AU. See missioner on scanner, drop Exploration Quest probe ... tic toc... bingo!!! You have the missioner at range zero or at least it's gate.
Once we had to triangulate probes. We could find them with skill. And the kill/loss ratio was balanced enough for the carebears to accept they may lose a ship a month. Not one a day or two.
Of course, we also know what their tank will be optimised for so it's lols easy to take them down with recons/hacs.
And if they're smart enough to carry ECM drones, there's always the forums to whine about it on...

3) And, of course, if those missioners turn out to be bait or some other pies we don't have standings with turn up, there's at least four or five stations to run to.

4) Population. The game is much more crowded now. It's as natural for the lowsec-hugging pirates to blob to get easy kills as it is for 0.0 empires to win POS wars by outblobbing each other.
It just seems your average pie has more motive to gang up with other likeminded players than your average missioner/miner/manufacturer. Go figure.


It really is pathetic. Lowsec pirates are just another form of whining carebear these days.

Step up a level. Move to 0.0.


So really ganking unarmed haulers/miners/etc is just cowardice really. Why do so many people brag about it with killmails etc


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