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Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2008.11.04 08:10:00 - [301]
 

Originally by: Souvera Corvus

In addition, because of mission loot and re-pro Hedal almost functioned as a low-sec trade Hub increasing the traffic in and around MH which again meant more fights.

As scanning mission runners out became almost a certainty (risk/reward?) and as the mission runner population in and around Hedal decreased, pirates found that the only way to get the targets that they wanted was more gatecamps on the MH access points.

So what we have now is pirates and the like asking CCP to move missions to Low-sec so that they can get back the low-sec population they used to have before scanning became an almost certain thing.

They won't come.



\o Souvera and \o Foundation. Good to see you in this thread.

I think Souvera outlined some very good reasons why Hedaleofarber turned from a busy mission running system with over 70 active people into the ghost town it is now. That 70 didn't even include the 30 or so people in each of the surrounding systems.

All the complaining about how empire huggers were rich backfired didn't it. Changing game mechanics so you can scan out mission runners and easily scan out someone in an exploration site made most of your targets disappear. It didn't bring us out to 0.0 and it sure as hell didn't keep us in low sec. So now all of those targets are long gone and your complaining more and want to keep us from making isk in hi-sec.

It didn't work before, so what makes you think doing the same thing is going to have different results? Freaking Brilliant.

Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.11.04 09:31:00 - [302]
 

Edited by: Poreuomai on 04/11/2008 09:32:34
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Poreuomai
... many alliances are (quite understandably) generally happy for carebears to remain in hi-sec.

... in the end it's simpler to just say: if you're not prepared to fight, you don't belong in 0.0

Isn't that what I just said?

It's not that carebears don't want 'in', it's that alliances generally don't want them 'in'.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.11.04 09:31:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Joe Cyber

Change warp-in to a solar system to a random location across the entire solar system. Camping would be less productive. Those who camp now, would actually need do some work.


If you by 'would actually need some work' mean 'would actually need to forget it', yeah.

Fact: low-sec population is fine. A bunch of carebears telling how low sec needs to get more populated and then making their suggestion how to turn low-sec into more profitable high-sec are silly. Your basic premise, dear carebears, that low-sec needs more people is simply dead wrong. Low-sec is populated enough.

Fact #2: Gatecamping is the only way to catch people ferrying stuff from place A to place B. People in a hauler loaded with stuff do not go to the belts or missions, and incidentally a large part of the ISK passing through low-sec is in the damn haulers/covops frigs/etc. People saying "oh, but remove gatecamps, you'll have more people in low-sec" are in fact asking me to support trading haulers (occasionaly loaded with tons of valuables) for more T1 cruisers with crap low-end named fits who'll haggle wether to pay 4 or 5M of ransom, and sad part is you know you won't get half of that in loot. Basically, no thank you, keep them for yourself.


Venduras
Posted - 2008.11.04 09:58:00 - [304]
 

"What would it take to get carebears out to low and nulsec?"

CONCORD? Laughing

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.11.04 10:02:00 - [305]
 

So now the carebears are the ones whining that carebears dont leave high sec branko? And meanwhile you are whining that carebears make too much isk in high sec so should leave high sec. Sense, you do not make.

Thuul'Khalat
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.11.04 10:04:00 - [306]
 

It will never happen. Those rightfully categorized as Carebears will never go to live in lowsec. The second someone does this, they are no longer a real bear.

Some may remain noobs, tards, nitwits or smacktalkers, but not bears.

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2008.11.04 10:07:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Thuul'Khalat
It will never happen. Those rightfully categorized as Carebears will never go to live in lowsec. The second someone does this, they are no longer a real bear.

Some may remain noobs, tards, nitwits or smacktalkers, but not bears.


So my jumps into low-sec with my Skiff for some ninja-mining (for the fun of it) remove the carebear status? :O
I don't live there though, wouldn't make as much profit Razz

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.11.04 10:17:00 - [308]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 04/11/2008 10:17:56
Originally by: Furb Killer
So now the carebears are the ones whining that carebears dont leave high sec branko? And meanwhile you are whining that carebears make too much isk in high sec so should leave high sec. Sense, you do not make.


It makes perfect sense.

Ive often been called a "pirate" myself, and I would confirm Brankos assertatation that low sec is fine as it is.

Highlighting the no-risk high rewards of highsec mission running, and maintaining lowsec is fine are not mutualy exclusive.

ArrowOne way of dealing with it would be to drastically increase rewards in low sec, but this would "open a can of worms" in regard to balance with 0.0 rewards, and involve major game changes.

ArrowThe second way would be to drastically reduce rewards in empire (and by this I mean specifically mission running in high sec. This would create no imbalance, would make high sec mining a viable profession again, would create a more suitable relative recompense for the added risk of 0.0 ratting, and wouldnt involve major game changes.

Its a no brainer really.

Oh and I should like to warn all bears to stay out of lowsec, your not wanted there YARRRR!!

SKUNK





Thuul'Khalat
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.11.04 10:18:00 - [309]
 

Originally by: Thenoran
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat
It will never happen. Those rightfully categorized as Carebears will never go to live in lowsec. The second someone does this, they are no longer a real bear.

Some may remain noobs, tards, nitwits or smacktalkers, but not bears.


So my jumps into low-sec with my Skiff for some ninja-mining (for the fun of it) remove the carebear status? :O
I don't live there though, wouldn't make as much profit Razz


No. If you willingly take the risk of bringing a ship into lowsec (and don't run off screaming, smacking, emo-raging and complaining if that risk gets you killed), you would no longer be what I concider a carebear. Of course, different people may have different definitions of the term.

Elena Morin'staal
Minmatar
Conflagration.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.11.04 10:58:00 - [310]
 

Originally by: Gonada

all your petty bickering is really about one thing: how to ruin EVE, make it into your little non violent heaven.



Not all "carebears" are asking for non-violent heaven in Eve. I'm perfectly happy with Lowsec being a risk - it bloody well should be dangerous.

Problem is the definition of risk. Risk should be an actual risk - you might get found by a pirate, have a brief fight and die/escape, or you might be alright and make some cash.

Currently however, there is no "risk" in lowsec (from my limited experience). Its not a risk jumping straight into a gate camp, its usually one dead carebear who won't be returning to lowsec.

Make lowsec an actualy bloody risk (as in you won't just get instapopped in a gate camp) and people will use it more.


Failing that, stop whining about lack of "easy" targets in lowsec.

Lady Delena
Posted - 2008.11.04 11:19:00 - [311]
 

Edited by: Lady Delena on 04/11/2008 11:19:39
Want us to move to lowsec? sure, give us carebears a hauler or mining ship which is immune to dmg. A ship that can only fit mining turrets. No risk, and we will move there, if not you can keep your lowsec haha

Tiswable
Posted - 2008.11.04 11:34:00 - [312]
 

Edited by: Tiswable on 04/11/2008 12:14:53
Of course it's boring to be a lowsec pirate these days.

Lets face it, it's really very very easy to kill missioners/miners/haulers in lowsec.
It has been for several years now.

Can you blame them for figuring it out?

That's why they stopped living in lowsec and have now all but stopped flying into lowsec.

And what does it matter if the level4 rewards are so much higher in lowsec if we're able to pop them over and over again with such ease?

Move all level 4 missions to lowsec, and the next whine will be to move all level 3 missions to lowsec.
The existing risk versus reward gap is THAT huge...

What changed to make it so easy?

1 new weapon, 1 dumbed-down old system, and simple sums of scale.

1) HIC's were introduced. Infinite scram "iwin" buttons. Paired with a rapier on a gate with snipers scattered around, slow aligning ships are easy meat. Four or five in such a gang is enough to take down teams of three or four mission fit (non-PVP optimal) battleships. And flexible enough to run if they turn out to be bait - if we're stupid enough to miss them when the anti-pies appear in the local lists of our alts one or two systems away.

2) Probing missioners is pathetically easy. Create a handfull of safespots. Set scanner to a few AU. See missioner on scanner, drop Exploration Quest probe ... tic toc... bingo!!! You have the missioner at range zero or at least it's gate.
Once we had to triangulate probes. We could find them with skill. And the kill/loss ratio was balanced enough for the carebears to accept they may lose a ship a month. Not one a day or two.
Of course, we also know what their tank will be optimised for so it's lols easy to take them down with recons/hacs.
And if they're smart enough to carry ECM drones, there's always the forums to whine about it on...

3) And, of course, if those missioners turn out to be bait or some other pies we don't have standings with turn up, there's at least four or five stations to run to.

4) Population. The game is much more crowded now. It's as natural for the lowsec-hugging pirates to blob to get easy kills as it is for 0.0 empires to win POS wars by outblobbing each other.
It just seems your average pie has more motive to gang up with other likeminded players than your average missioner/miner/manufacturer. Go figure.


It really is pathetic. Lowsec pirates are just another form of whining carebear these days.

Step up a level. Move to 0.0.

ush mas
Posted - 2008.11.04 11:59:00 - [313]
 

Edited by: ush mas on 04/11/2008 12:07:01
Edited by: ush mas on 04/11/2008 12:01:07
whell we like to roam whit small agile fleets trough low sec (not FW) hunting for pirates actuly giving them a fight that dousent include insta poping haulers

but frankly we jump in scout some systems find moste pirates docked up (cant blame the solo pirate there) we move along next system

we hear ower interceptor scout pilot screaming HOT HOT HOT HOT gatecamp

3 cariers 1 mother ship 3 dreads 10 battelships 3 interceptors and some other stuff.

yoy back to home for use lol

and btw is sutch a fleet necery to kill some haulers ?
as it seems to become prety standard now days to include capitals for gatecamps just to catch that singel pilot flying

i rember form my 0.0 travel days in the past 2 pirats camping a gate just 2 of them that where the days.

risk for so called carebears and small roaming antipirats isent worth the risk, or you would like
here is my ship kill plx so you can post it on your epeen kilboard.

less gate blobs more YARRRR!!

period

Gonada
The Scope
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:03:00 - [314]
 

Edited by: Gonada on 04/11/2008 12:04:11
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 04/11/2008 03:16:18
Quote:
95% of the guys that pew pew, also have industrialist alts making stuff for the alliances as well, or high sec alts in pos's doing the same.

No **** sherlock. So do you care to explain why topics like "Low/nullsec needs more carebears"/"what would it take to get bears into low/nullsec" keep coming up if they're so unneeded?

If not then **** off and stop, oh wait, trying to ruin the game for others!



they keep getting brought up by loosers like you that are too afraid to take the chance, yet want the rewards.


Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:12:00 - [315]
 

Originally by: Tiswable
Edited by: Tiswable on 04/11/2008 11:56:35
Of course it's boring to be a lowsec pirate these days.


WARNING:
Above pilot does not fly in lowsec.
Above pilot has zero kills on battleclinic.

Yet another bear wittering on about lowsec pirating.

ArrowNo its not boring being a lowsec pirate. Lowsec is fine leave it alone.

SKUNK

Tiswable
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:17:00 - [316]
 

Edited by: Tiswable on 04/11/2008 12:20:25

Easy to attack the alt, and not his argument Laughing

Lemmie guess: another highsec-lowsec capitalship gatecamper who thinks he's uber popping haulers by any chance? Twisted Evil

I mean... it's so BORING being part of those gangs.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:21:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 04/11/2008 12:22:03
Originally by: Elena Morin'staal
[

Its not a risk jumping straight into a gate camp, its usually one dead carebear who won't be returning to lowsec.

Make lowsec an actualy bloody risk (as in you won't just get instapopped in a gate camp) and people will use it more.


Failing that, stop whining about lack of "easy" targets in lowsec.


1) CCP have furnished you with the tools to avoid every lowsec gatecamp if you wish to use them

ArrowTargets are fine, Lowsec is fine leave it alone

SKUNK

Tiswable
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:27:00 - [318]
 

Edited by: Tiswable on 04/11/2008 12:33:18


This is where your logic fails.

Smart players use alts /scouts to see our megablob on the gates.
Just as we use alts to watch out for any serious threat coming our way.

So they don't jump ... into lowsec.

Just as we dock when a threat appears.

We sit on gates for two or so hours, killing the odd shuttle, interceptor or rookie ship scout.

But there is always some idiot who jumps blind in their pimped Raven.
They deserve to die.

Sure, blockaderunners with mwd/cloak get past easy. So can covops. But you can't do many level 4s in those.


But this debate is about why nobody lives in lowsec, and so few mission there.

I got sick of hearing gatecamping gang whining about why there are no targets about.
Then laughing about how easy it was to kill those that were...
So i went the opposite direction to highsec.

If they really wanted to fight the way the boast, they'd go to 0.0 where you cannot hide in station as easily.

Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Dusk Blade Logisitcals
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:38:00 - [319]
 

Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 04/11/2008 12:41:35
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 04/11/2008 12:40:05
Quote:
they keep getting brought up by loosers like you that are too afraid to take the chance, yet want the rewards.

Who the **** are you? Coz you don't know a damn thing about me. If you did, you're basically saying

- Running low-sec POS
- Running missions in low sec
- Roaming PvP gangs (yeah, I did that for a while too)
- Factional warfare
- Flying T2-rigged Blockade runners from Lonetrek to the middle of Venal (where *everyone* is hostile to me) and back loaded with 250-500 mil ISK worth of goods.

are no-risk activities. I've lost *billions* in ISK doing stuff in low/nullsec and never had a whine about it, and I'm going back out there again once QR comes out to do it all again with a vengeance, the local changes may even see me using hit and run tactics in alliance-owned space just because I *know* it's frustrating people when 5 people chase after the one harassing their miners. If you'd *read* my posts and had a clue about me you'd have known that before putting your foot in your mouth. Now **** off, you're not worth the effort.

Carebears have wisened up to the tricks going on in lowsec and 0.0 and they're not suicidal. QR is bringing the first non-capital vessels with the ability to avoid gatecamps which are the biggest risk in trying to get into low/0.0 sec. This'll make the idea of populating areas of lowsec and even 0.0 more attractive to smaller but capable corporations.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.11.04 12:57:00 - [320]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 04/11/2008 13:03:19
Edited by: Le Skunk on 04/11/2008 13:01:38
Originally by: Tiswable
alt post


Hint: Nobody takes a word of what your saying seriously you are an alt

But yes I can confirm you are not wanted in lowsec. If you cant handle it (as youve admitted you couldnt)then stay away. This goes for the lot of you craven and whiners.

Stay out - Problem solved Very Happy

SKUNK

Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
Posted - 2008.11.04 14:14:00 - [321]
 

CCP needs to buff the HP and resists for Exhumers, or else invent a special low sec mining barge; as is they're incredibly weak, and because you don't get bounties from blowing up riods, if you lose your ship while in low sec, you've probably lost all your profit.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.11.04 15:04:00 - [322]
 

Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP needs to buff the HP and resists for Exhumers, or else invent a special low sec mining barge; as is they're incredibly weak, and because you don't get bounties from blowing up riods, if you lose your ship while in low sec, you've probably lost all your profit.


I believe they should be able to fit covert ops cloaks, and new mining laser developed which allow you to mine cloaked with no laser flash.

SKUNK

Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.04 15:44:00 - [323]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
What mechanics would make few ships better than many ships?


It's been discussed before.

More objectives that cannot be stomped sequentially (blob flying from objective to objective = fail). Less chokepoint warfare.

More logistics issues which makes blobs difficult to support. That's why such things don't happen in real militaries very often. It's too expensive and difficult to keep in the field.

Probably also some kind of detriment to having a huge blob. Having friendly ships get in the way of gunfire would help, but not much in a 3d game. Some other kind of efficiency reduction/command control issue to make blobs harder to use.

Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.04 16:02:00 - [324]
 

Originally by: Cat Molina
This is true. However, in your own example you mention an existing reward for low-sec: the crappy market. From what I've seen, pirates tend to dislike logging on the alt, shopping, and then hauling the crap in. A careful pilot could make good money running goods to the pirate hubs (especially with the upcoming Blockade Runner changes).

And yet, no one really does this. Why? The reward is there (increased profits; challenge; danger)... so why do so few do it? It's not really that risky, even for a solo w/alt scout pilot.


Actually it's quite risky without a scout but it can be done. In fact I have a rep in my own corp for doing just exactly this. Going dangerous places and hauling goods back - and I've been doing it in an Iteron III of all things.

Playing tag with a solo interceptor in an Industrial is actually quite fun. It's exciting, there's risk and it can be a good time. Now that I know of the existence of Blockade Runner ships (which I only found out about recently) I'm training for one.

However, and it's a big however, it requires a fair bit of player skill and some luck. The player skill isn't something an Empire type can gain except for the hard way, losing lots of ships, or by being trained by one of the few of us who have been making a stab at it.

The biggest reason it isn't done more, is metagaming. Pirate players simply have high sec alts to buy and haul their stuff to low sec. Their low security status only keeps their pew pew out of Jita or wherever. It's easy to log onto another character, transfer the stuff and voila - no need for a smuggler to improve markets. 0.0 is a little easier in some ways as there are markets that are in rough shape and jumping freighters down is a pain in the tush, so there's money to be made there sometimes. If you can get someone to buy your stuff.

Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.11.04 17:11:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: Baldour Ngarr

Wouldn't be necessary if low sec served the blindingly obvious purpose it has, of being partially safe. No combat at gates and stations, but mining/ratting/missioning can be dangerous.



The idea, based on the write up in the various EVE player's guides, is exactly that. Low sec is supposed to be a step down from High Sec and a step up from Null Sec.

It ain't.

The ONLY thing about low sec that is more safe is the lack of bubbles. This means that in a properly fitted ship you can actually run the occasional gate camp without just dying. You still have to be a decent pilot to do it and a cloak helps a LOT but you can do it. (You can sometimes do this in null sec too, but it's considerably harder to do with bubbles in place and you'll only get away with it against small camps).

Outside of that one small increased safety factor, Low sec is much scarier to operate in. Solo or otherwise. The reasons are simple:

1) Like in Null Sec, anyone can shoot you.
2) Unlike in Null Sec, you don't have organized Sec settings to let you know who the good guys and bad guys are. NBSI or NRDS don't work in Low Sec unless you entirely don't care about your security standings. This makes Local less than useful for intel purposes and means you can't just shoot first and ask questions later if you want to ever go to High Sec.
3) There isn't always a good way of telling who the enemies even are. A group of totally unrelated folks might be ganged up looking to start a fight.

These things mean that solo play in low sec is dangerous in the extreme as the pirates only seldom fight solo. They're established, this is their home and they likely have friends around ready to jump in on any fight that might start. Indeed, these are standard pirate tactics. In 0.0 you know. If they're neuts or reds, assume they're there to kill you (you'll almost always be right).

Missioning in low sec? You'll be scanned out and engaged by PvP ships while in a PVE ship and probably also engaged by rats. The only way to protect against this is to bring friends of your own to help you - which, since they'll want something for this, dramatically brings down the mission pay per character even if no pirates show up.

Some things that COULD help low sec missioning:

1) Make the missions such that PvP ships are the standard AND
2) Ensure that mission enemies do not mindlessly target one ship and one ship only. If new ships warp into a mission area there should be a chance that the mission targets will engage them. Whether this be by triggering new spawns, activating inactive rats (rats should never stay inactive when in range of a fight anyway unless there is a good in-story reason for it), switching targets or all of the above - jumping into a mission should be a hazard. Otherwise it is an easily exploitable mechanic by attackers who simply wait until a ship is weak and then jump in using the rats as erstwhile allies. Perhaps standing with the rat faction should play a part in who they make their preferred targets?

Low sec should have gate guns that activate on any aggression and autofire on anyone who has a low enough standing with the owners of those guns. These should be MEAN enough that they prevent casual gate camps and if destroyed should trigger navy spawns to the area to defend the gate. This would at least make camping interesting, and non-mindless.

So, there are some ideas for you.

Cassandra Valieries
Posted - 2008.11.04 18:06:00 - [326]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Joe Cyber

Change warp-in to a solar system to a random location across the entire solar system. Camping would be less productive. Those who camp now, would actually need do some work.


If you by 'would actually need some work' mean 'would actually need to forget it', yeah.

Fact: low-sec population is fine. A bunch of carebears telling how low sec needs to get more populated and then making their suggestion how to turn low-sec into more profitable high-sec are silly. Your basic premise, dear carebears, that low-sec needs more people is simply dead wrong. Low-sec is populated enough.

Fact #2: Gatecamping is the only way to catch people ferrying stuff from place A to place B. People in a hauler loaded with stuff do not go to the belts or missions, and incidentally a large part of the ISK passing through low-sec is in the damn haulers/covops frigs/etc. People saying "oh, but remove gatecamps, you'll have more people in low-sec" are in fact asking me to support trading haulers (occasionaly loaded with tons of valuables) for more T1 cruisers with crap low-end named fits who'll haggle wether to pay 4 or 5M of ransom, and sad part is you know you won't get half of that in loot. Basically, no thank you, keep them for yourself.




Uhm, I think the OP is a pirate that wants more carebears in lowsec, us carebears are happy in highsec. So please aim your frustration towards the pirates that want lowsec changed to get more turkeys to shoot at Smile

Ocih
Amarr
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2008.11.04 18:18:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: Cassandra Valieries
to get more turkeys to shoot at Smile


Well put.
It's a Turkey shoot.
0.0 and low sec 'Pirate activity is like high sec Pirate activity.

Spend 2 hrs filling the Jetcan, watch asstard steal the jetcan.
0.0 and low isn't hard to navigate, to rat in, to mission in. It's hard to move stuff out of.

What can CCP do to get people in 0.0 and low? Nothing. People aren't that stupid and iwhat you are asking is 'What can CCP do to trick people in to going to low and null".

Cat Molina
Minmatar
Intransigent
Posted - 2008.11.04 18:41:00 - [328]
 

[derail]

I'm not a pirate. I don't know what the hell I am... but it's certainly not a pirate.

Because I don't give a damn about loot or ransoms. I'm quite well off from two years of playing the market/mining/mission running. My ships and fits aren't expensive. Clones don't cost that much. So I don't really care about loot.

I don't scan down mission runners. What would be the point? They can hardly put up a good fight with 30 NPC ships beating on them.

I don't camp gates. I fly solo, and therefore tanking sentry fire is out of the question. And even if I did jump into a HIC, it doesn't seem as fun as a straight-up fight.

Obviously, since I don't camp gates or stations, popping haulers is right out. They seldom loiter in belts.

I seek opponents who are equal or greater than me. You really can't learn much from popping a noob in his first Tristan. But taking on assault frigs and interceptors in a T1 frigate is a blast.

I don't smack talk.

I seek opponents who want to fight. Couple of guys in my home system mention they don't attack people who don't attack them. I leave the alone; they leave me alone (unless we're testing out fits against each other).

Other day I read a characters age incorrectly; thought he was a May 2007 player instead of a May 2008 player. Didn't realize until he mentioned something in the convo afterwards. The kill no longer had any meaning. I paid for his ship; gave the loot back.

I detest large 0.0 fleet fights. I don't like being a cog in the wheel... I did that for two years and learned very little about PvP. And I cannot stand the typical large alliance drama. Or people talking to me all the damn time when I'd rather be out hunting (whether in 0.0 or low-sec).

And the uglier local gets, the happier I am. I seek challenge... pulling off a kill under the noses of people who can smash me like a bug. I've traveled to NOL and asked for a interceptor fight, knowing I'd get spanked. But if you're going to learn PvP, you gotta take on more than you can handle.

So I'm definitely not a pirate. That's why my replies seem so off-base on this topic. Shame I have no label to call myself.

I can't help but wonder how many people like me are out there.

Back to this rather useless thread now. Just wanted to clear that up (and since little progress was being made here, thought I'd take the opportunity -- consider it a brief intermission.) Laughing
[/derail]

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2008.11.04 18:50:00 - [329]
 

Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 04/11/2008 18:52:19
Originally by: Tiswable
Edited by: Tiswable on 04/11/2008 12:33:18


This is where your logic fails.

Smart players use alts /scouts to see our megablob on the gates.
Just as we use alts to watch out for any serious threat coming our way.

So they don't jump ... into lowsec.

Just as we dock when a threat appears.



Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
Pirate players simply have high sec alts to buy and haul their stuff to low sec. Their low security status only keeps their pew pew out of Jita or wherever. It's easy to log onto another character, transfer the stuff and voila - no need for a smuggler to improve markets.



Removing alts and secondary accounts or putting a lengthy time delay on another character activation would answer that. And many more other problems. Simultaneous use of several game clients is pathetic, and destroys gameplay. The only fun use of alts is forum war, because it has no consequences.

Lowsec is indeed barren because it doesn't need a local economy, positive sec status alts of pirates or gankers can happily go shopping in high-sec. Just as 0.0 doesn't need a local economy, industrial alts of 0.0 pvpers just manufacture everything in empire and haul or better, bridge it to their nullsec space.
Positive sec status alts are also used as innocent-looking probers, or for high-sec gang mission internal griefing. The more i think of alts the more i internet rage. Wtf is wrong with you CCP? it makes great sense on a commercial level, but what about gameplay? or go all the way and allow several simultaneous connections of the same client (without allowing for multiple training).

I wouldn't wanna play this game as a single character industrialist. Most of my potential clients would already have dedicated alts for doing precisely what i do.

Aarin Wrath
Caldari
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2008.11.04 19:02:00 - [330]
 

Originally by: Blastil
What would get YOU into Low and Nullsec?



  • Remove or reduce Drone Alloy Drops, this would bring some value back into the mid-level minerals that are in lowsec (Zyd / Iso / Nox)

  • Make lowsec rat spawns abit better (low end BS / High end BC)

  • Give some advantage to industrials out in lowsec (Barges / Haulers) so that they are not the sitting ducks they currently are

  • Better NPC buy orders in lowsec for highsec NPC or PC goods

  • Nerf HIC lock time



Just some random ideas.

I lived out in lowsec for a long while, you make very low income out there ... Its just not worth it economically. Which is why its only pirates out there these days, they are out there (usually) for the blowing stuff up, not for the isk.


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