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blankseplocked [Issue] War decs and faction warfare
 
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Skaxx
Minmatar
False Memory
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:41:00 - [1]
 

Faction warfare is on a spiral downward due to outside influence from neutral corporations and alliances with goals to remove faction warfare corporations. We have seen it affect both Caldari and Gallante Militia as corps are leaving due to war decs. We believe if it continues on this path faction warfare can and will go away which would be a shame for the new players.

A few points and solutions to the problems as we see:

1. No corporation within said militia should be able to wardec another corporation in the same militia. This seems simple but has happened. If you are in an alliance can you wardec another corp in the same alliance? This first point must have been overlooked.

2. Treat wardecs against militia corporations as if you are deccing an alliance. If you dec one corporation in any of the mitlitias you are deccing the whole militia with fees inline with deccing an alliance.

3. In any of the militia high sec if you are an opposing faction you deal with both that militia and the militia npcs. If a corporation decs a militia corporation and they choose to bring the fight into that militias high sec, the npcs should assist said militia against the agressors.

4. If any corporation in the militia decs any corporation outside of the militia since they are agressing remove the help and safety of militia npcs.

Faction warfare is a great training ground for new players and has the potential for great things in the future but only if it survives. Please voice your opinoins on the subjects posted.

Psyflame
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:57:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Psyflame on 28/10/2008 22:57:36
I have watched faction warfare go from 60v60 fights -> 40v40 fights -> 20v20 fights -> current state where I am lucky to see a mixed roaming gang of 5 cruisers and frigates. I know for a fact that many of the Gallente Faction Warfare corporations I enjoyed shooting have been targeted and griefed out of Faction Warfare, and I know several Caldari corps have as well.

To expand on point four:
The militias, to my knowledge, were intended as a sort of "training ground" or "stepping stone" for younger and or less experienced players to learn PvP. As such, FW should be a more defensive posture. To prevent abuse, corporations within the "alliance" of faction warfare should receive no assistance from militia OR npc militia if they are the aggressors in a war against a player corp.

Vernex
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:58:00 - [3]
 

I'm in agreement with the general ideas presented here. In specific I think #2 is a great concept given that corporations participating in FW are in an alliance with each other for the greater good of the faction and should be considered a single entity for the purposes of wars. This should really cut down on the silly attempts to thwart FW in general.

-Vern

gu o
Amarr
R.U.S.T.
Posted - 2008.10.29 00:45:00 - [4]
 

I agree aswell. I do not speak for anyone other than myself.


GypAtheNooB
Posted - 2008.10.29 01:01:00 - [5]
 

If u remove the ability to wardec a corp in Militia how do u respond to blue on blue pirating?
In a normal alliance that would result in a corp ejected from the alliance, is there a way to resolve that issue without wardec? Is CCP going to police this as a normal CEO of a large alliance would?? Cant see it :(

Gossamer DT
Caldari
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.29 01:37:00 - [6]
 

I have seen the FW decline first hand as well. My corp has also been involved with a War Dec that was intended to force us out of FW. Prety simple tactics, the decing corp just waits for a FW fleet, then picks off it's targets with out a worry of bring on the full blow of the fleet. This loop hole in FW will be it's undoing.

My only twist on this would be that if you are a corp and you join FW, you should lose the ablity to War Dec, and as your now in a larger alliance, only the alliance should choose the corps to war dec. So if a corp/alliance wants to get involved with FW corps they have to war dec the FW alliance.

Sure this opens up new players to more potential danger when a corp war decs the FW alliance, but it's much better then sitting around a battle going on where you can't do anything but shield rep your fellow FW pilots.

As for blue on blue aggression, that should be kick from FW IMHO. Maybe a rank drop system there instead to the lowest rank then kick. A typical CEO would not stand for it, so that should be the norm. Maybe give the corp the option of kicking that player from it's ranks with in 24 hours, but if that players stays's then kick that corp from FW.

GypAtheNooB
Posted - 2008.10.29 01:43:00 - [7]
 

Thats gold !! CCP how about it??

Blastil
Posted - 2008.10.29 02:13:00 - [8]
 

FW was always supposed to be a small gang PVP introduction. The "Decline" of FW is really it doing what it was supposed to do. It wasn't supposed to be 60 man blobs it started off as being.

making wardecs 'alliance' wide is dumb. Now instead of harassing a handful of corps in FW, a 0.0 alliance can harass the whole damn thing.

Magna Monez
Posted - 2008.10.29 02:27:00 - [9]
 

I think this needs a bit more finesse in the aggression engine.

This would work for both a corp outside of the militia and within the militia.

1. You can only war-dec a single corp in the militia not the whole milita. (just like now)
2. If you aggress a pilot in the militia corps that you decked you become flashy for 5 minutes to the whole militia
3. Once other militia fire at you you can shoot back at them with no sec-hit/concord but not before they do that.

This would solve the problem where decked corps players are not safe in mixed milita fleet.

If there is a griefer corps joining a milita and most of the militia aggrees that they are a bunch of ****s they can still be decked within the milita and attacked since the rest of the militia would not come and help them.

icy 1
Posted - 2008.10.29 02:50:00 - [10]
 

I agree 100% we need to do somethign quick before the milita is completly dead.

Gossamer DT
Caldari
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.29 05:25:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Gossamer DT on 29/10/2008 05:25:21
Originally by: Blastil
FW was always supposed to be a small gang PVP introduction. The "Decline" of FW is really it doing what it was supposed to do. It wasn't supposed to be 60 man blobs it started off as being.

making wardecs 'alliance' wide is dumb. Now instead of harassing a handful of corps in FW, a 0.0 alliance can harass the whole damn thing.


Your really going to try and say that Faction Wars was ment to be small time? Really? You can't get any more cooler then hundreds of random players forming up to fight for their cause..

And come on really? 0.0 alliance don't war dec, they don't give a dam about conncord, and when they do get upset, they put up a POS in low sec and gate camp a system <COUGH>TAMA</COUGH> killing everything that happens to wander through....

NaMorham Santorin
Caldari
Raptor Ops
Kamikaze Project
Posted - 2008.10.29 07:15:00 - [12]
 

Definite support, especially point 3. Ideally would need a separate fix for blue on blue pirating

Cpl Punnishment
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.10.29 07:37:00 - [13]
 

I agree. FW can be a blast. It's a great way for players to test the waters of PVP in a casual setting. I think that we should make an effort to find ways to keep people interested in FW.

I think, at the very least, if you are in a mixed fleet, and someone attacks a member of your fleet that they have war dec on, then the fleet should be able to fight the aggressor. This is not to say that the Whole Militia should be your blanket security. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to be in a mixed fleet and have a group of pilots able to pick off a couple of targets in the middle of your fleet and not be able to do much about it.

I want to see something that is not slanted in favor of either side, but fun for everyone....


Erim Kaluk
Minmatar
Valklear Guard

Posted - 2008.10.29 08:17:00 - [14]
 

A little bit of tweaking as some of the other posts above and this'll be a great idea.

Slarty FartBlast
Posted - 2008.10.29 10:48:00 - [15]
 

Razz
Originally by: Skaxx
Faction warfare is on a spiral downward due to outside influence from neutral corporations and alliances with goals to remove faction warfare corporations. We have seen it affect both Caldari and Gallante Militia as corps are leaving due to war decs. We believe if it continues on this path faction warfare can and will go away which would be a shame for the new players.

A few points and solutions to the problems as we see:

1. No corporation within said militia should be able to wardec another corporation in the same militia. This seems simple but has happened. If you are in an alliance can you wardec another corp in the same alliance? This first point must have been overlooked.

2. Treat wardecs against militia corporations as if you are deccing an alliance. If you dec one corporation in any of the mitlitias you are deccing the whole militia with fees inline with deccing an alliance.

3. In any of the militia high sec if you are an opposing faction you deal with both that militia and the militia npcs. If a corporation decs a militia corporation and they choose to bring the fight into that militias high sec, the npcs should assist said militia against the agressors.

4. If any corporation in the militia decs any corporation outside of the militia since they are agressing remove the help and safety of militia npcs.

Faction warfare is a great training ground for new players and has the potential for great things in the future but only if it survives. Please voice your opinoins on the subjects posted.




what a great idea

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.29 12:32:00 - [16]
 

It's fine as it is.

Not supported.

Dough Boy198
Red Federation
Posted - 2008.10.29 13:05:00 - [17]
 

Something needs to be done, otherwise I fear FW may come to an end sooner rather than later. FW was my first taste of PVP, as it has been for many other pilots and it is a great idea to get us "carebears" started in the fighting.

Please dont let this fall apart CCP Sad

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.10.29 13:15:00 - [18]
 

Quote:
2. Treat wardecs against militia corporations as if you are deccing an alliance. If you dec one corporation in any of the mitlitias you are deccing the whole militia with fees inline with deccing an alliance.


Some clarification on this point?

Are you proposing that it will function exactly how wardeccing an alliance works now (ie if multiple people wardec said alliance the price escalates) or will it always be the default 50m a week price no matter how many entities wardec corporations inside the militia.

Its an important question because if there is escalation it will quickly reach untenable levels of expense making the militia an effective war-avoidance mechanism and thats not in the interests of the game.

Also can you confirm that you mean IF an external entity wardecs ANY corporation inside a miltia they will be in a full status of war with ALL militia corps + the militia NPC entity for the wardec fee paid?

Thanks.

Calinda FireStrom
Posted - 2008.10.29 14:26:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Calinda FireStrom on 29/10/2008 14:39:42
I agree the war-deck on militia makes for bad game play.
This needs to be fixed!
So like the SNL dude- FIX IT!

But it easy to see why some FW corps have made the war-deck choice, fly through Old Man or Tama, and you get to dodge the 20+ -10 players from different corps that have moved in to feast on the younger players trying to have a chance of any fun in F/W PVP.
Thus it was an easy bet that FW corps would bypass the Low sec issues and take the fight right to the systems FW stages fleets in. Once this started, it snow balled into all out war-decks even within ones own militia. It's all about targets!
I too have seen a large drop in FW battles and players due to this.
CCP needs to take a responsible approach at keeping the game fun for ALL players. Is this what you had in mine CCP?
Should something you added to the game to help fun for mid level players be ruined?
This can be fixed and fast, please do.
One way:
“Faction war needs its own space”, with bubbles and bounties (a must) for killing apposing side player ships.
Not many players care about the plex’s, the risk to reward sucks!
Do this and FW will be a big part of the FUN for mid level players again!

The -10 players and “want to be pirates’” can go find real targets that have real skill in low sec!

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.29 14:39:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Gossamer DT

And come on really? 0.0 alliance don't war dec, they don't give a dam about conncord, and when they do get upset, they put up a POS in low sec and gate camp a system <COUGH>TAMA</COUGH> killing everything that happens to wander through....


Confirming this is a heap of fun.

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.29 15:58:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Skaxx

2. Treat wardecs against militia corporations as if you are deccing an alliance. If you dec one corporation in any of the mitlitias you are deccing the whole militia with fees inline with deccing an alliance.



That would be the only acceptable change, but i dont think you realise what you are asking for. Militias would be a very popular wardec target.

oodin
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.29 15:59:00 - [22]
 

rabble rabble....rabble rabble rabble Laughing

Crimson Calis
Deep Core Mining Inc.

Posted - 2008.10.29 16:30:00 - [23]
 

I agree that something has to be done, for me FW was the way into PvP, wasn't interested in it before. But FW and wardecks together isn't so much fun.

Laki Onori
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:20:00 - [24]
 

Quote:
Originally by: Skaxx 2. Treat wardecs against militia corporations as if you are deccing an alliance. If you dec one corporation in any of the mitlitias you are deccing the whole militia with fees inline with deccing an alliance.


So you deck a corp from each on the alliances, and you are in war with all the FW alliances? Works great for me :)

oodin
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:22:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Laki Onori
Quote:
Originally by: Skaxx 2. Treat wardecs against militia corporations as if you are deccing an alliance. If you dec one corporation in any of the mitlitias you are deccing the whole militia with fees inline with deccing an alliance.


So you deck a corp from each on the alliances, and you are in war with all the FW alliances? Works great for me :)

wooot that would work out well..it will be like the new privateers Twisted Evil

well tought out ideas steel...

pornopelle
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:23:00 - [26]
 

not a bad idea skaxx. if u war a mitia corp it would be good to have the whole militia/alliance good bonus since we ward u guys.
the sad part is that it will protect (bad word) like u guys and so on...

3. In any of the militia high sec if you are an opposing faction you deal with both that militia and the militia npcs. If a corporation decs a militia corporation and they choose to bring the fight into that militias high sec, the npcs should assist said militia against the agressors.

is a bad idea why should u have an atv vs wts?

but this is from us.
If u should leave militia we ill still war steel.
How come u never undock from station to fight.
Its same as in the militia just that u dont have 4000 ppl helping u.
Its just funny to see how mutch **** u could put out in the militia channel when the war wassnt active and now nobody see guys annymore.

well ofc not counting when ur stabbd up for travel

STOP WHINING UNDOCK AND FIGHT!!!!!!

Skaxx
Minmatar
False Memory
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:52:00 - [27]
 

This post has nothing to do with the Mentl dec, the apb dec or anarchy now decs we have. This post was due to the corps who are griefed out of militia. We are a mostly us pst time based corp. We are not going anywhere. We believe in the militia and will continue to move forward.

There are plaguing problems in faction warfare and we do not want it to go away. Of course their have already had flaws pointed out in a few of my points which is good. The more points of view a discussion can have the better.

oodin
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.29 18:51:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Skaxx
This post has nothing to do with the Mentl dec, the apb dec or anarchy now decs we have. This post was due to the corps who are griefed out of militia. We are a mostly us pst time based corp. We are not going anywhere. We believe in the militia and will continue to move forward.

There are plaguing problems in faction warfare and we do not want it to go away. Of course their have already had flaws pointed out in a few of my points which is good. The more points of view a discussion can have the better.

ofc it has to do with us!! were the only corp in militia that has decced you and isnt that what this whine post is about? getting decced by own militia?

Skaxx
Minmatar
False Memory
Posted - 2008.10.29 23:50:00 - [29]
 

Do I think it is ******ed that a corporation in one militia can dec another corp in the same militia? Yes.

We started this post for the shear lack of war targets we see anymore. When we starting checking these corps weeks ago as they were leaving one after another was decced by multiple corporations. We do not want our opposition to go away.

If it wasn't for all the good pirate corps around there would be nothing to shoot at at all in our timezone. We formed our corporation knowing we would get war decced alot. Oodin you are a greifer of the worst sort. At least pirates have the balls to show their colors. You choose to shoot your own militia and have done so for the last few weeks taking advantage of game mechanics and the fact that most militia pilots are new players. I can respect PL coming into tama and camping the system, or bydi, or veto as they show their colors. You join fleets with the sole purpose of shooting your own. You hide behind your own militia to grief the newer players.

I do not know if any of our ideas are worthy, but something has to be done or we will have no war targets to shoot at in black rise. I think this would be a shame. Faction warfare allowed me and many others to find fun in pvp.

oodin
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.30 00:51:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Skaxx
Do I think it is ******ed that a corporation in one militia can dec another corp in the same militia? Yes.

We started this post for the shear lack of war targets we see anymore. When we starting checking these corps weeks ago as they were leaving one after another was decced by multiple corporations. We do not want our opposition to go away.

If it wasn't for all the good pirate corps around there would be nothing to shoot at at all in our timezone. We formed our corporation knowing we would get war decced alot. Oodin you are a greifer of the worst sort. At least pirates have the balls to show their colors. You choose to shoot your own militia and have done so for the last few weeks taking advantage of game mechanics and the fact that most militia pilots are new players. I can respect PL coming into tama and camping the system, or bydi, or veto as they show their colors. You join fleets with the sole purpose of shooting your own. You hide behind your own militia to grief the newer players.

I do not know if any of our ideas are worthy, but something has to be done or we will have no war targets to shoot at in black rise. I think this would be a shame. Faction warfare allowed me and many others to find fun in pvp.

and you are a liar!!
i havent abused any game mechanics and you should be man enough to admit that what happend was this..i claimed killrights given to me by concord after 8 guys shot me...correct???
the truth is that your just ****ed at me for killing 7 of them in high sec and there wasnt anything you could do about it...and if you feel im a griefer for claiming killrights then please petition me to ccp!! and maybe it is time to look into why we have declared war on your corp..could it be all the lies and crap your corp members was spitting out in militia about mentally unstable?? and if pvp is all you ever wanted then undock..and finally,i have only been in a militia gang 2 times in my life and that was my first days in mentl and both time the militia members ran when i fought the gallentes so get your fact straight!!
so bottom line: you shot me giving me killrights.i claim killrights and you guys whiiine and whiiiine calling me griefer..Laughing


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