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Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.28 12:38:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

rampant inflation of isk and minerals. (construction is outpacing destruction so it appears at a glance that your isk buys more, that is until you go to buy a gtc, a bpo, or faction (excluding most empire lp store items)/deadspace gear)



You are aware that your examples are wrong?

The GTC price increase started with the worst problems with the RL economy. Less people willing to spend $ or Ä for GTC, more people willing to spend isk, less offer, more demand, the price has increased.


BPO are sold by NPC so the price is constant. If you are referring to T2 BPO they are an item of ever increasing rarity, so an increse in price is normal.

Faction items from 0.0 drop sell at less than the equivalent faction item sold from LP store. I was capable of buying Dread Guristas railguns at 50% of the price of the identical CN railgun. Only the top faction item have insane prices and that, again, is influenced by the limited and not expanding offer against the increasing demand (more players). For deadspace gear the "production" has even lowered as they now require people to explore to find the complex, whle in the past they were fixed items in well know systems.



Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.28 12:40:00 - [32]
 

I would rather nerf npc corp members by high taxes on isk flow.

For that you would simply disable their ability to trade directly in stations, so that they have to use contracts. so whenever a npc corper receives isk by contract, market, bounty, or whatever 50% tax is deducted. Every downtime the overall volume of isk received is summed up and if it is below a certain threshold all tax is paid back, in order to give noobs the possibility to make money.


that would be a giant carrot....

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2008.10.28 12:53:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Iam Corporation
Originally by: Davina Braben
Hmmm.

Players in "School" corps shouldn't be dec-able.

"School" corps should boot anyone with a negative sec status.


Makes sense. There is a similar mechanic for corps in Faction Warfare. Also, perhaps players should be "graduated" to a corp where they can be war decced after some criteria are met.


Thank you for your thoughts everyone. Keep them coming. While I'm quite sure CCP would never implement any of these ideas, there are always benefits to discussion of the ideas.


How about after a certain amount of SP (eg 1mil, 30mil ISK or maybe 1 month ingame), players are moved out of "school" corps into normal NPC ones. These NPC corps have 30% tax rates to encourage the player to move out into a player corp. School starting corps still have 0% tax.

Nur Vadenn
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:26:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
I would rather nerf npc corp members by high taxes on isk flow.

For that you would simply disable their ability to trade directly in stations, so that they have to use contracts. so whenever a npc corper receives isk by contract, market, bounty, or whatever 50% tax is deducted. Every downtime the overall volume of isk received is summed up and if it is below a certain threshold all tax is paid back, in order to give noobs the possibility to make money.


that would be a giant carrot....


No that would be a large diameter stick with NPC corporation members grabbing their ankles and taking it from behind. There are already restrictions on what NPC corp members can do, fly, and train. Why isn't that enough. If player corporations were such a good thing people wouldn't stay long in NPC corps. Perhaps the problem is with corporations?

Originally by: TimMc
How about after a certain amount of SP (eg 1mil, 30mil ISK or maybe 1 month ingame), players are moved out of "school" corps into normal NPC ones. These NPC corps have 30% tax rates to encourage the player to move out into a player corp. School starting corps still have 0% tax.


Again NPC corporation members get the shaft, and for what?

These crutches that people want to give player corporations would seem to support the fact that they are just not very good to begin with. Otherwise there wouldn't be this silly drive to try and beat people out of the NPC corps.

Fortunately CCP hasn't been in a hurry to listen to these suggestions. Perhaps as suggested earlier people should focus on a better bounty hunting system. That at least would target those whom might actually deserve the bounty NPC corporation or no.



Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:29:00 - [35]
 

Oh not this again (more the replies than the OP - they always come out of the woodwork). Whilst I approve of the attempt to introduce some semblance of restrictions on this real pay-to-grief system, all this really seems to do is make those attempting to be pirates even bigger targets. It's not like being a pirate is easy, and making the journey to -10 that much more rocky and difficult doesn't seem to encourage it.

Why isn't ganking an option? If they really annoy you, surely the sec status hit is worth it? Surely there are those on the road to -10 who will happily drop their sec status a bit more for a fee?

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:33:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
I would rather nerf npc corp members by high taxes on isk flow.

For that you would simply disable their ability to trade directly in stations, so that they have to use contracts. so whenever a npc corper receives isk by contract, market, bounty, or whatever 50% tax is deducted. Every downtime the overall volume of isk received is summed up and if it is below a certain threshold all tax is paid back, in order to give noobs the possibility to make money.

that would be a giant carrot....

So what you can offer in a player corp isn't a big enough carrot? (I find it mildly ironic you're suggesting this when currently in The Scope). Really, I find this continued 'lets nerf NPC corps' theme strange - surely if a player corp can offer something better, that is a real carrot?

If the best EVE can achieve is 'nerf this so that people go into player corps more' well then, player corps really must suck that you have to change game mechanics to get people to join them... Alternatively, this isn't about that at all and it's all a cloak'n'dagger means for empire griefers to whine about people they can't kill because they think this is Unreal Tournament in space...

You want real PvP? Come over to Factional Warfare; it's much more fun than hugging stations waiting for some miner to come out so you can gank them.

Nur Vadenn
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:38:00 - [37]
 

Astria Tiphareth... I love you! Surprised


Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:44:00 - [38]
 

dude this isnt about pvp as such, its about people who **** around while being more or less untouchable.

Also NPC corps are corps not giant salvation armies that give anything away for the lulz, so if you are in an npc corp that corp will want something from you since you work for them and not vice versa.......

Even if cccp would implement such changes they wouldnt work properly as long as the wardec system isnt revisited and fixed....

BTW DEVS: THE COUNCIL BROUGHT IT UP... HOW ABOUT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT?!?!


last but not least, if i feel the urgent desire to pvp, i will happily rejoin my old corp (you may check ingame, who they are and who they are flyin with)..... right now i am happily mining away, while being ****ed that i cant kick those morons mining MY ORE....

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:48:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Nur Vadenn
Astria Tiphareth... I love you! Surprised

I am disturbed... LaughingWink

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.10.28 13:57:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
dude this isnt about pvp as such, its about people who **** around while being more or less untouchable.

Also NPC corps are corps not giant salvation armies that give anything away for the lulz, so if you are in an npc corp that corp will want something from you since you work for them and not vice versa.......

Even if cccp would implement such changes they wouldnt work properly as long as the wardec system isnt revisited and fixed....

BTW DEVS: THE COUNCIL BROUGHT IT UP... HOW ABOUT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT?!?!


last but not least, if i feel the urgent desire to pvp, i will happily rejoin my old corp (you may check ingame, who they are and who they are flyin with)..... right now i am happily mining away, while being ****ed that i cant kick those morons mining MY ORE....

I agree, the current wardec system (or more accurately the idiots who abuse it) is part of the problem in convincing people to join player corps. It's one reason I opted for giant PvP rather than specific; I have a slight safety net in choosing my battles. I'm not ashamed of that, it just happens to suit my playstyle quite nicely.

Yes it's damned irritating when someone comes along and messes with you and you can't blow them to bits. However, whilst I empathise with this desire, often it's far quicker easier and cheaper just to move and not let them get to you. I've mined, and never been can-flipped - I've missioned, and never been ninja-salvaged - one day I no doubt will, but the truth is empire is pretty damn big if people go looking and there just aren't enough jerks in EVE to go around.

Finally, small point, but crucial - it's not your ore, just as it isn't your salvage. The distinction isn't philosophical - the entire point of 0.0 warfare is resource-claiming (since fun seems to have been ditched in favour of lag). If we went and changed the game to a notion where individuals can enforce ownership of sections of high-sec, then what's the advantage of going to 0.0? I'm simplifying because sometimes there is such a thing as resource wars in high-sec but I trust you get my point.

Nur Vadenn
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:09:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
dude this isnt about pvp as such, its about people who **** around while being more or less untouchable.

Also NPC corps are corps not giant salvation armies that give anything away for the lulz, so if you are in an npc corp that corp will want something from you since you work for them and not vice versa.......


Last time I checked NPC corporation membership did not render me untouchable. Perhaps I missed something in the brochure. I can be attacked and killed like anyone else regardless of corporation. The only thing different is you can't pay Concord an inconsequential fee to get a pass and harass me for 7 days. Instead you have to pay with your ship and sec status if you want my ship or pod in high sec. On the flip side guess what I would have to pay if I wanted to kill you. Seems like an equitable situation to me.

As for NPC corporations not being charities I completely agree. The difference is that I see the cost being imposed upon me already. For immunity to war declaration I pay by not being able to setup POS's, not having access to capital ships, no corporate assets, and the inability to declare war on someone in addition to missing all the other benefits of player corporations. There are more benefits in player corporations right?

You might also consider that NPC corporations are so well run that they have alternative revenue streams so they don't have to impose an oppressive tax on their membership. Maybe some player corporations could learn from this example.



Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:10:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Duhmad IbnRa on 28/10/2008 14:11:29
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth


Finally, small point, but crucial - it's not your ore, ......


thats why i put it in caps... however corpwars are meant to be fought over resources (among other things) but with people sticking to npc corps they cannot be touched.

i dont have a problem with them being untouchable but player corps should have a serious advantage over them even on a basic level as mining. Right now thats not the case.

I am in a npc corp myself right now, because i cant be decced and i dont incur any disadvantages moneywise by doing so, however if my income would be halfed due to taxing, you can bet your ass i make up my own corp....

but as i said as long as wardeccing isnt fixed this discussion is basically obsolete....

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:17:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
Edited by: Duhmad IbnRa on 28/10/2008 14:11:29
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth


Finally, small point, but crucial - it's not your ore, ......


thats why i put it in caps... however corpwars are meant to be fought over resources (among other things) but with people sticking to npc corps they cannot be touched.

i dont have a problem with them being untouchable but player corps should have a serious advantage over them even on a basic level as mining. Right now thats not the case.

I am in a npc corp myself right now, because i cant be decced and i dont incur any disadvantages moneywise by doing so, however if my income would be halfed due to taxing, you can bet your ass i make up my own corp....

but as i said as long as wardeccing isnt fixed this discussion is basically obsolete....


Quote:
but player corps should have a serious advantage over them even on a basic level as mining.


Beside the "why?" question at that comment, you feel that the assist of gangmates when someone can flip you is so trivial?
Getting in a mining gang with someone you trust and with which you are collaborating constantly?
Sharing a hangar to trade the minerals and getting someone in corp with perfect refining and 0 tax to refine them?

Players corp have advantages (been in one from my second month) but you need to find good corpmates.

If the corp leadership isn't thinking at the same time about corp well being and corpmembers well being but his only aim is to line his pocket a player corp has a lot of disavantages.






Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.28 18:20:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
Edited by: Duhmad IbnRa on 28/10/2008 14:11:29
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth


Finally, small point, but crucial - it's not your ore, ......


thats why i put it in caps... however corpwars are meant to be fought over resources (among other things) but with people sticking to npc corps they cannot be touched.

i dont have a problem with them being untouchable but player corps should have a serious advantage over them even on a basic level as mining. Right now thats not the case.

I am in a npc corp myself right now, because i cant be decced and i dont incur any disadvantages moneywise by doing so, however if my income would be halfed due to taxing, you can bet your ass i make up my own corp....

but as i said as long as wardeccing isnt fixed this discussion is basically obsolete....


Quote:
but player corps should have a serious advantage over them even on a basic level as mining.


Beside the "why?" question at that comment, you feel that the assist of gangmates when someone can flip you is so trivial?



you actually call in corp mates if someone tries to can flip you ? dude a hulk can hold 13000m3 with t1 rigs, hold mining solves this problem easily....
Quote:

Getting in a mining gang with someone you trust and with which you are collaborating constantly?

i dont understand what you are trying to say here....

Quote:

Sharing a hangar to trade the minerals and getting someone in corp with perfect refining and 0 tax to refine them?



no corp hangar is needed to trade the ores....

any miner worth his money will train refining skills anyway for t2 mining crystals

Quote:

Players corp have advantages (been in one from my second month) but you need to find good corpmates.

....





like what?


Iam Corporation
Posted - 2008.10.28 19:31:00 - [45]
 

This discussion has side tracked into the benefits of player corps vs npc corps. That wasn't my intention here. I merely wanted to get a general opinion on war deccing individuals within an NPC corp. Some good ideas have been brought forth, my sense has been both praised and ridiculed, and the flame wars have begun.

For those of you who are curious, I have some general targets in mind. One would be known scammers. These folks hide within NPC corps, using psychology and trickery to make their isk. In Eve, there is nothing wrong with that. What's missing is the ability to retaliate. The common player could hire someone to put some hurt on the scammer, but this usually requires hundreds of millions of isk, and the scammed just don't have hundreds of millions of isk. They did 10 minutes ago, but now they're broke.

Scammers are the reason I brought up the steep contract tax after some requirements are met. By introducing this tax they will either move into a war-deccable corp or re-roll a new character, losing the advantages of SP they have already trained.

Another target would be pirate haulers. Some claim the life of a pirate is difficult. I disagree. Having an NPC corp hauler alt and a main corp-mate scout for clear gates is extremely easy, especially when the hauler alt may be carrying ammo, mods, and ships for multiple non-npc corp members. Low sec pvp corps can easily hit the logistic line a of a high sec corp to their lowsec POS, however, the high sec corp can't do much to retaliate in their home ground. If the high sec corp can gather intelligence, identify the hauler alt, and then act accordingly with a proper individual war dec, then the pirates' logistics can be affected just the same.

There are many reasons why someone might want to wardec an individual, whether they are good reasons or bad reasons. Keep in mind that many events occur in Eve already, for good and bad reasons. It's a sandbox, it's also a game, and there are many factors outside your control. Enjoy it, and try to have fun.

StuckToon
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.10.28 19:35:00 - [46]
 

.02 isk. Not that I agree or disagree with any other points. The penalty for being in a NPC corp would have to be a fee or skill train nerf to even mean anything. I could accumulate tons of ore or mods from missions make a corp for a day and dump em for the isk. Or xfer em to an alt that is in a player corp and only used once every 6 months to collect my iskies. Tax is meaningless.

Nur Vadenn
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.10.28 21:33:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Iam Corporation
For those of you who are curious, I have some general targets in mind. One would be known scammers. These folks hide within NPC corps, using psychology and trickery to make their isk. In Eve, there is nothing wrong with that. What's missing is the ability to retaliate. The common player could hire someone to put some hurt on the scammer, but this usually requires hundreds of millions of isk, and the scammed just don't have hundreds of millions of isk. They did 10 minutes ago, but now they're broke.

Scammers are the reason I brought up the steep contract tax after some requirements are met. By introducing this tax they will either move into a war-deccable corp or re-roll a new character, losing the advantages of SP they have already trained.

Another target would be pirate haulers. Some claim the life of a pirate is difficult. I disagree. Having an NPC corp hauler alt and a main corp-mate scout for clear gates is extremely easy, especially when the hauler alt may be carrying ammo, mods, and ships for multiple non-npc corp members. Low sec pvp corps can easily hit the logistic line a of a high sec corp to their lowsec POS, however, the high sec corp can't do much to retaliate in their home ground. If the high sec corp can gather intelligence, identify the hauler alt, and then act accordingly with a proper individual war dec, then the pirates' logistics can be affected just the same.


The targets you describe for your proposal may indeed be well deserving of the attention. Unfortunately there are two glaring problems. First there is no clear in game difference between Joe Hauler Alt and a legitimate player still looking for a corporation. This is also true for Joe Scammer and a honest player just in the NPC corporation because they haven't found that corporation worth joining. Yet these legit players would likely take the brunt of attention from the change you propose. As evidenced in this thread, there are people with hate towards NPC corporation members. You would be declaring open season for these people to grief an entire group of player wholesale. When you combine that with additional punitive actions against the NPC corporation to further hinder those you might take issue with the whole proposal just seems vindictive against an entire play stile, not just your intended targets.

Originally by: Iam Corporation
There are many reasons why someone might want to wardec an individual, whether they are good reasons or bad reasons. Keep in mind that many events occur in Eve already, for good and bad reasons. It's a sandbox, it's also a game, and there are many factors outside your control. Enjoy it, and try to have fun.


What has to be answered is whether any of the reasons you refer to are legitimate enough to trash an entire play style to allow you and others to reach an individual. In essence you're asking for a game mechanic to allow you to bypass a portion of the acceptable use rules. As it stands is petition able if someone is harassing a single person. You're asking for that to be removed, then endorsed in regards to people in NPC corporations. Doesn't seem right.

Daevonar
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.29 00:29:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: Davina Braben
Hmmm.

Players in "School" corps shouldn't be dec-able.

"School" corps should boot anyone with a negative sec status.


It's not the pirate players being in NPC corps that are the problem, it's miners that never leave the NPC corp and are basically invulnerable to any form of PVP other than suicide ganking or can flipping, the former which will never happen nowadays and the latter is completely preventable.



Why would you even care about these people? So someone wants to spend all their days looking at some lumps of rock big deal, their actions dont have to effect you.

I hate people who winge about others not getting invlolved in pvp, there's plenty of peopl whio will, the games big enough for all, get over yourself and stop expecting everything to be a target.

Daevonar
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.29 00:42:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
.... but player corps should have a serious advantage over them even on a basic level as mining...


Oh you mean like being able to pool resources in a corp hangar, form large mining ops with felloe corp members, use the BPO's collected by yet mroe of their fellow members, have the best people at manufacturing producing ships and equipment for everyone for next to nothing... etc etc

The biggest advantage in being in a pc corp is the teamwork and using everyones combined skills... that is a huge advantage. Some corps may not be able to manage this, but thats not the fault of the system, its down to the players and CEO's. Seriously, a lone guy in an NPC corp has no chance of mining anywhere near as much or as effectively as an organised corp.


and I'm sure you'll point out that a large number of people can gang together in an NPC corp, but honestly, how many times do you see more than 2 or 3 people working together in an NPC corp, not to mention the fact that the lack of access to things like corp hangars makes the logistics of sorting out what you do with all your stuff and BPO's etc much, much harder.

So to sum up, the advantage of a pc corp is teamwork, and it's a major advantage, so long as the players themselves choose to use it.

Zathrus
Posted - 2008.10.29 11:28:00 - [50]
 

How about this:
NPC corp members only receive 50% of all ISK generated while in the NPC corp.

Nur Vadenn
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.10.29 14:00:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Zathrus
How about this:
NPC corp members only receive 50% of all ISK generated while in the NPC corp.



Sure if you can come up with a solid reason as to why.

Any tax on NPC corporation members is just a crutch to try and gloss over the major failings in player run corporations.


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.29 16:50:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa

you actually call in corp mates if someone tries to can flip you ? dude a hulk can hold 13000m3 with t1 rigs, hold mining solves this problem easily....


If I want to kill them and not get in trap? Yes.

Quote:
Quote:

Getting in a mining gang with someone you trust and with which you are collaborating constantly?

i dont understand what you are trying to say here....


Plenty of people offering to mine with you for gang bonus in the NPC corps (I have R&D alts there). Hard to be sure they are honest people.

Quote:
Quote:

Sharing a hangar to trade the minerals and getting someone in corp with perfect refining and 0 tax to refine them?



no corp hangar is needed to trade the ores....


No need is different from not being expedient and more efficient.

Quote:

any miner worth his money will train refining skills anyway for t2 mining crystals


In time, boy, in time. You don't start with perfect refining.

Quote:
Quote:

Players corp have advantages (been in one from my second month) but you need to find good corpmates.

....





like what?




You want a corp with incompetent/lazy/profittering corpmates?


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.29 16:53:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/10/2008 16:53:55
Originally by: Iam Corporation

For those of you who are curious, I have some general targets in mind. One would be known scammers. These folks hide within NPC corps, using psychology and trickery to make their isk. In Eve, there is nothing wrong with that. What's missing is the ability to retaliate. The common player could hire someone to put some hurt on the scammer, but this usually requires hundreds of millions of isk, and the scammed just don't have hundreds of millions of isk. They did 10 minutes ago, but now they're broke.



"I have some target in mind ... " No doubt but most of the targets will be a people not in those categories.

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.29 19:43:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Daevonar


and I'm sure you'll point out that a large number of people can gang together in an NPC corp, but honestly, how many times do you see more than 2 or 3 people working together in an NPC corp,......


about every time i warp to any ice belt in empire... just as an example


Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa

you actually call in corp mates if someone tries to can flip you ? dude a hulk can hold 13000m3 with t1 rigs, hold mining solves this problem easily....


If I want to kill them and not get in trap? Yes.



thats pvp not mining ....and even if you call in friends it doesnt mean you dont end up getting whacked.... many flippers have friends, too.....

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:

Getting in a mining gang with someone you trust and with which you are collaborating constantly?

i dont understand what you are trying to say here....


Plenty of people offering to mine with you for gang bonus in the NPC corps (I have R&D alts there). Hard to be sure they are honest people.



worst they can do is steal you ore, again holdmining is your friend, if you use a second account gsc are a safe transfer tool...
Quote:
Quote:

Quote:

Sharing a hangar to trade the minerals and getting someone in corp with perfect refining and 0 tax to refine them?



no corp hangar is needed to trade the ores....


No need is different from not being expedient and more efficient.
it si also different from being totally insecure.... direct trade and contracting is the safest and most efficient way of exchanging stuff...
Quote:

Quote:

any miner worth his money will train refining skills anyway for t2 mining crystals


In time, boy, in time. You don't start with perfect refining.



patronizing somebody that plays the game longer than yourself doenst make you look smart, and besides with the right choices you start with refining V & veldspar processing IV, sure youll have to train refining efficency, but thats hardly an issue.

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:

Players corp have advantages (been in one from my second month) but you need to find good corpmates.

....





like what?




You want a corp with incompetent/lazy/profittering corpmates?




i was referring to the advantages.....

and ask again, if being in a pc corp has so many advantages then why am i not making a corp with my alts....


exactly, for me as an individual there is no reason to leave the npc corp and thats the whole point. many people dont leave npc corps because they dont see any benefit. not losing 50% of your profit is a huge benefit....



michaelfeb16
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.29 21:10:00 - [55]
 

What is all the hostility toward people in NPC corps about? I just don't get it...we miss out on the benefits of a well run PC and that hurts you...how?

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.30 11:13:00 - [56]
 

right..., you dont get it, people in npc corps cannot be touched under any circumstances.

what? he scammed, ransomed, insulted you or disrupted your mining op? well, too bad for you that he is hiding in an npc corp, that doesnt police its members properly nor charges them for this status of immunity....

thats what it comes down too....

and pleace leave this 'pc corps have enormous advantages' argument in the box, since its simply not valid, if it was, everybody and his mother would join or found a player corp.

Miukie
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.10.30 12:28:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: michaelfeb16
What is all the hostility toward people in NPC corps about? I just don't get it...we miss out on the benefits of a well run PC and that hurts you...how?


Same here and apparently CCP donít get it either or at least Zulupark doesnít get it.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.30 13:34:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa

Quote:
Quote:

any miner worth his money will train refining skills anyway for t2 mining crystals


In time, boy, in time. You don't start with perfect refining.



patronizing somebody that plays the game longer than yourself doenst make you look smart, and besides with the right choices you start with refining V & veldspar processing IV, sure youll have to train refining efficency, but thats hardly an issue.


Sure, if your character is only miner. Bur if you do more than 1 thing it is useful not to train a extra skill at the start of your career.

I don't know and don't care if you are so old, but apparently you have forgotten what it mean to start a character and train the skills. The "In time, boy, in time" is about the time needed for a new character to train the skills, not you play time. If he is not a second accoutn specialization is not so common.



Quote:

Quote:
Quote:

Players corp have advantages (been in one from my second month) but you need to find good corpmates.

....




like what?




You want a corp with incompetent/lazy/profittering corpmates?




i was referring to the advantages.....

and ask again, if being in a pc corp has so many advantages then why am i not making a corp with my alts....

exactly, for me as an individual there is no reason to leave the npc corp and thats the whole point. many people dont leave npc corps because they dont see any benefit. not losing 50% of your profit is a huge benefit....




First, I find extremely convenient to have most of my R&D alts in a single alt corp.

Second, several peoples and I, here and in other threads, have pointed out the advantages of corps. You simply refuse to acknowledge them. Sure, if you stay only in high sec, only mine or run missions, the advantage isn't so large (unless the CEO is very competent) but it exist.

You have been in a corp at least for some time so you should have an idea if you have got something from them.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.30 13:37:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 30/10/2008 18:37:09
Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
right..., you dont get it, people in npc corps cannot be touched under any circumstances.

what? he scammed, ransomed, insulted you or disrupted your mining op? well, too bad for you that he is hiding in an npc corp, that doesnt police its members properly nor charges them for this status of immunity....

thats what it comes down too....

and pleace leave this 'pc corps have enormous advantages' argument in the box, since its simply not valid, if it was, everybody and his mother would join or found a player corp.


And naturally a member of a NPC corp can't be "scammed, ransomed, insulted or his mining op disrupted"(and weren't you the one saying some post above that you should always mine in a cargohold?), so how "he can't be touched under any circustamce". Your logic is a bit faulty.

edit for clarity and missing "how". The "scammed .." and c. was the list of what in your opinion a NPC corp member can do with impunity. And is a list of what can be done to him with impunity. So how is that he is "untouchable"?

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2008.10.30 14:03:00 - [60]
 

You didnt answer my question:

Why should i with my alt leave the npc corp if i only wanna make isk... ?

i dont want to mine with other people, because as long as they have as good skills as i do, they will just reduce my profit.

i definitely dont want to be involved in pos buisness, as it is a pain in the ass, and pretty pointless in empire.

please give me one reason that outweights the risk of being wardecced....

u say u find it convenient to have your R&D alts in a pc corp, just explain to me why....

your last post didnt make any sense... i take it that english is not your mothers tongue, but please dont try to write super complex sentences in order to look smart, this way it only gets difficult to understand...


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