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Riley Escobar
Posted - 2008.10.28 02:24:00 - [1]
 

I have very good skills for the nighthawk and am planning to use it for level 4 missions (will eventually upgrade to golem). I am relavtively experienced when it comes to mission running but havent done too many lvl 4s but my question is what do I need to do to maximize the amount of money I will make long term (in total)

Do I stay and salvage the wrecks, loot the cans, sell the crap on the market,

or

Do I try to speed through them as fast as possible going for the LP and mission rewards.

or maybe even what'sbehind mysterious door 3 (honestly I dont know)

What is the best way to make the most money (not nessicarily the most fun)

Riley Escobar
Posted - 2008.10.28 02:28:00 - [2]
 

also maybe I should use a different ship???

Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Posted - 2008.10.28 02:30:00 - [3]
 

IMO you end up making close to the same ISK no matter how you do it. From what you have written in the OP I think you may want to go with blitzing the missions.

Eve Survival mission info is usually pretty accurate for blitz info.

Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Posted - 2008.10.28 02:31:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 28/10/2008 02:31:40

Originally by: Riley Escobar
also maybe I should use a different ship???
yeah

I suspect a Raven moded for dps with enough tank to get by would be faster than a BC.

Dracthera
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.28 02:51:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Dracthera on 28/10/2008 02:51:58
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter
I suspect a Raven moded for dps with enough tank to get by would be faster than a BC.


The Nighthawk can run missions faster than a regular Raven, and on par with a pimped-out CNR. It remains to be seen what happens after the patch, but it's likely the Nighthawk may end up running L4s faster than the CNR or the Golem, even if slightly so. The Nighthawk isn't simply a BC, but a Field Command Ship, so it has bonuses to damage, much higher resists, etc.

In terms of the OPs question, I suppose the answer ends up a personal choice. If you're confident that you can turn in your LPs for lots of cash (on the order of 2000 ISK/LP), then by all means blitz through missions. Also if you're running your missions in losec/nullsec, then you're getting more LPs than in hisec, so that may become a better choice. I've taken the loot/salvage route, and been raking it in that way (many missions like AE in fact I farm for a whole week). I also dual-box, so I run missions with a dedicated salvager in tow, which makes that option more attractive for me.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.10.28 04:07:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter
IMO you end up making close to the same ISK no matter how you do it.

This, more or less, within reasonable error boundaries.

Sergis
Caldari
Death By Teacup
Posted - 2008.10.28 10:49:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Sergis on 28/10/2008 10:50:31
Nighthawk is a pretty sick pve ship

and following that irrelevant comment I would say that it is better at the missions with the smaller stuff and the Golem/CNR is better with the BSes

Riley Escobar
Posted - 2008.10.28 10:52:00 - [8]
 

How much LP does one make per mission (i know it varies but on average)

and how fast would you suppose someone can blitz through some of these missions (preferably on average as well)

I know this is asking for much but it is highly appreciated

Guygeboe
Caldari
Viper-Squad
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.10.28 12:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Dracthera
Edited by: Dracthera on 28/10/2008 02:51:58
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter
I suspect a Raven moded for dps with enough tank to get by would be faster than a BC.


The Nighthawk can run missions faster than a regular Raven, and on par with a pimped-out CNR. It remains to be seen what happens after the patch, but it's likely the Nighthawk may end up running L4s faster than the CNR or the Golem, even if slightly so. The Nighthawk isn't simply a BC, but a Field Command Ship, so it has bonuses to damage, much higher resists, etc.
...


Nighthawk faster than a CNR or Golem? With not even half the dps? Can you please explain that? I'm very curious :)

Lord Migit
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:37:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Lord Migit on 28/10/2008 14:39:48
Edited by: Lord Migit on 28/10/2008 14:38:03
Originally by: Riley Escobar

Do I stay and salvage the wrecks, loot the cans, sell the crap on the market,

or

Do I try to speed through them as fast as possible going for the LP and mission rewards.



may sound strange but i do a mix of both, i run missions with me and my alt, me in a golem and my alt in her dominix with salvagers and shield and cap transfers. So i jump to a mission and shoot the BS's, alt's drones kill cruisers n frigs. But i have 3 tractors on the golem so i grab anythin in 40km range l00t it with gole, salvage with domi and if tehre is anything beyond the 40km range then i dont waste time travling to it. So maximising the efficiancy of the mission.

Obviously i also fly around during the mission to maximise the amount i can grab but the point is that the time i spend in a mission is at its maximum efficancy.

Also i tand to make around 35 - 40mill per hour doing missions with me n my alt. (dont know how this compares to other people) and around 2 - 2.5k LP per mission but i have the skills for gaining extra LP at lv 5.

Average mission take maybe 15-20mins. For a realy awsome one then around 50 mins. So Worlds Collide takes around 40mins and Angel Extraganza take about 55mins? (not too sure). Hope this helps.

Nocturnal Avenger
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:55:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Riley Escobar
Some questions


This is probably not maximizing profit, but I think it comes close with max amount of lazyness included :)

Golem with perma-tank, cruise missiles, 1 tractor and 2 salvagers (and a 650M3 can)

Angel missions are extremely salvage worthy - at least the bs and cruisers. All other factions get salvaged anyway - but only if it doesn't slow me down. Always pick up loot - BS, cruiser, frigate.

Learn approx what the reproc. value is pr. M3 for different kinds of loot. Protip: cap booster charges and scrap metal should be left alone if you have anything else to pick up.

Learn which types of named loot that should be sold.

Some missions are a waste of time - but that is up to you to find out :D

LP in high-sec is overrated - don't look too closely at that anymore.

Lag is a factor that should make you steer clear of the Motsu-like systems.

Etc.

GL

vanBuskirk
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:22:00 - [12]
 

Guygeboe, it's really quite simple; it depends on the mission.

Raven uses cruise or maybe torps, Nighthawk uses heavies. This means that for BS-heavy missions the Raven indeed wins; but for missions heavy on the cruisers or even frigates, Nighthawk probably wins because cruise are too much missile for targets smaller than a BS (or maybe a BC).

So for optimum speed of mission running (and, although it doesn't matter all that much, minimum ammunition expenditure) you need both available. A Raven, or better CNR, with a target painter might even the balance - but be aware that a TP takes up a slot that you therefore can't use for tank, and this might mean warpouts - which waste HUGE amounts of time.

I haven't run Buzz Kill, but for this one maybe a Nighthawk armed with assault launchers would be better - or even a Drake with same.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:30:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 28/10/2008 15:37:20
Originally by: Riley Escobar
I have very good skills for the nighthawk and am planning to use it for level 4 missions (will eventually upgrade to golem).
You will have to run a lot of missions in the Golem before you make back the cost. I estimate that a decent Nighthawk runs missions within 10% of the time of a Golem on average. At an average of 20mil an hour that means you need to run missions for 400 hours before you have paid back the investment. Somewhat less if you sell your NH of course.

As regards mission running times:I've spent the last couple of months pimping out a Cruise CNR as a pet project. For most missions the difference between NH and pimped CNR is 15% at most. The exceptions are the Extravaganzas and World's Collide. Those I can complete in a CNR in 50 minutes - prolly less if I practice. My NH takes 1hr15 and that's after many months of practice.

Don't know how it stacks up with torps but anything smaller than a BS (which is most of what you get even in an L4 mission) is a PITA in a CNR. A NH can take out frigates using its launchers without too much hassle. I often don't bother launching my drones.

Oh and a CNR (maybe not Golem) is a lot of work compared to an NH. You have to pick the right targets, monitor your shields, sometimes even balance shields/cap.

A passive tanked NH just arrives at the mission and starts launching missiles at whatever the pilot wants. No need to worry about signature radius or shields or cap.

Dracthera
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:24:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Dracthera on 28/10/2008 16:27:48
Originally by: Guygeboe
Nighthawk faster than a CNR or Golem? With not even half the dps? Can you please explain that? I'm very curious :)


Others already made the point, but I just waned to add that you can't just look at EFT numbers for your DPS - that only represents your maximum DPS output, NOT the DPS which the rats will end up taking. Many, many factors affect the damage taken by your target, not the least of which are speed, signature radius, resistances, etc. Perhaps some day EFT will have more flexibility in reflecting damage taken by various types of rats (e.g. DPS against Angel cruisers orbiting at 10km going 350 m/s), but until then you have to consider the EFT DPS numbers with a grain of salt, and ONLY as a means to compare it against other EFT loadouts (and even then it's not ideal). I think EFT does a far better job at exploring Defense.

What this all really means is that given the rat mix in L4s, the NH would apply a higher percentage of its EFT DPS output, whereas the CNR and the Golem would be significantly less so. In effect, a NH may use up 90% of the 550 EFT DPS number, whereas the CNR or a Golem may only use 60% of their 900 EFT DPS numbers. Add to that the much longer targeting times for the CNR and Golem against the smaller ships, and the slower travel speed, and you have a formula for parity. So, yeah, NH (esp. after the upcoming patch) is likely to run L4 missions (on average) faster than a CNR or a Golem given the missile effect changes. Makes me want to start training for one right now before prices go up.

Nocturnal Avenger
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.10.28 17:39:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Andrue
You will have to run a lot of missions in the Golem before you make back the cost. I estimate that a decent Nighthawk runs missions within 10% of the time of a Golem on average. At an average of 20mil an hour that means you need to run missions for 400 hours before you have paid back the investment.


Two things.

1: "making back the cost" is irrelevant. If you sold your golem, you'll get the cash back (unless price changes a lot of course). Or - after those 400 hours, you have the same amount of isk AND an extra golem. Choose the version you like.

2: Does a NH pick up and salvage as much loot as the golem? This is a pretty large factor tbh.

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2008.10.28 21:08:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 28/10/2008 21:09:46
Tbh if you really want to maximize profit, you decline all missions where the Nighthawk would be better than a Battleship :D

Once you have a faction standing of 7.5ish, you can easily afford to decline all missions that are crap, and the 4 hr timer be damned. And all the good ones have so many BS NPCs that any Battleship will outperform the Nighthawk.

Also, permatanking and maximum profit are mutually exclusive.

And try to rat against NPCs that give good salvage, that means running for Amarr or Minmatar, not for Suckdari or Gallente. In a Marauder with three tractors, I make better isk/hour from the salvaging Angel/RepFleet/Blood/Sansha than from the missions themselves.

Riley Escobar
Posted - 2008.10.28 22:31:00 - [17]
 

Well it's a little late because I'm missioning for caldari so I should stick to blitzing through?

Dracthera
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.28 23:12:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Riley Escobar
Well it's a little late because I'm missioning for caldari so I should stick to blitzing through?


It's never too late to switch to missioning for another faction, and you should re-read what people wrote above and decide for yourself which decision is best for YOU. I doubt anyone here will tell you what you should be doing because it's an individual decision on how you want to play the game.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:15:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 29/10/2008 17:15:25
Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger
Originally by: Andrue
You will have to run a lot of missions in the Golem before you make back the cost. I estimate that a decent Nighthawk runs missions within 10% of the time of a Golem on average. At an average of 20mil an hour that means you need to run missions for 400 hours before you have paid back the investment.


Two things.

1: "making back the cost" is irrelevant. If you sold your golem, you'll get the cash back (unless price changes a lot of course). Or - after those 400 hours, you have the same amount of isk AND an extra golem. Choose the version you like.

2: Does a NH pick up and salvage as much loot as the golem? This is a pretty large factor tbh.
Both valid points although with a Golem being the current end-game for mission runners most people won't ever sell it. I wasn't trying to say 'don't do it'. I was just pointing out that moving from Golem to Nighthawk is an investment and like all investments it does take time to pay back.

I do own a Golem but only use it for salvaging. I tried salvaging with the spare high slot on my NH and kept blowing up wrecks by accident. I decided that it wasn't worth the risk and stuck a Medium Beam II on it instead. I'm already a multi-billionaire so speed is not as important as minimising hassle.

Actually that's another valid point when considering how to optimise income. Unless you have a definite plan to move onto to PvP (and how many people have claimed that but never done it?) then increased revenue is a bad thing. It just brings forward the day when you've pimped your ship as much as you can and...

..your done. Time to find another game. I have always preferred to saunter through Eve. Taking enjoyment from socialising and from the journey itself. Like life. I believe in working hard to attain security but there's no point dying a millionaire. Dead is dead and you can't take it with you Wink

Ghengis Tia
Posted - 2008.10.31 15:31:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Ghengis Tia on 31/10/2008 15:35:22
I use 3 Warhead Rigor Catalyst I's on my CNR. BCs, Cruisers go usually in two, BCs maybe 3 volleys. Destroyers you can take out single volley two at a time by splitting putting 3 launchers on one and 4 on the other.

Frigs go down eventually, but I only fire on them if using drones will aggro the entire room. Otherwise, drones do the trick.

The time you're going to have to spend screwing around selling LP items, (buying tags, market research, placing and monitoring sell orders), will offset any advantages of blitzing missions.

Loot and salvage is worth (roughly) 2-4 times the value of LPs and mission rewards (especially Sansha and Angel salvage). So bottom line is that you have to run 3-4 missions to equal a good mission's total payout.








Rachel Voegel
San Matar Trucking Company
Posted - 2008.10.31 17:09:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Rachel Voegel on 31/10/2008 17:09:39
Originally by: Andrue
Unless you have a definite plan to move onto to PvP (and how many people have claimed that but never done it?) then increased revenue is a bad thing.

I thought most mission runners are just PvP alts. Shocked

Bynara
Gallente
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.31 17:27:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Bynara on 31/10/2008 17:27:32
blitz in 0.0 and use mate or alt to salvage and loot! unless ur in real unfriendly territory where ur sure to be scanned down, then blitz and get. IMO

Nocturnal Avenger
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.11.01 18:50:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Rachel Voegel
I thought most mission runners are just PvP alts. Shocked


Some definitely are. Probably a lot tbh.


 

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