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Hayaishi
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2008.10.25 09:56:00 - [1]
 

Hello, i heard about 3 months ago that log in traps are illegal.

a log in trap is where one or more reds / war targets log off in a system to evade intel until they are needed to attack. and if they do log on and attack off the bat, it would be a bannable offense.

is this correct or have i been miss-informed?

Amanda Wilkins
Caldari
Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish
Big Bang Quantum
Posted - 2008.10.25 10:14:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Amanda Wilkins on 25/10/2008 10:13:57
I don't know if it is legal or not, but I think the answer is going to be something along the line of "we cannot tell people they cannot log on (or off) at this or that time". At least that was the reply one of my alliance members got when we tried to petition a clear abuse of logging off...


Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.10.25 11:12:00 - [3]
 

Login traps are NOT illegal.

It's the side effect of a login trap that could be illegal.

If you have enough people in your gang (on a default size node it be 100-150 people)and call a mass simultanious logoff. The node will get too much data to work through and call it a break. This effect is called a Node-Crash, and afaik if CCP traces your behind it, there could be bans/warnings.

Logging off your fleet/gang to save them from a larger gang which would be camping you in is OK. Logging off your fleet/gang to not make the enemy aware of their presence so you can slaughter them at a later point is OK too.

For what i know the side effect is frowned upon. Seeing over the years many crashes were forced that way. (or just by overloading the node due 800+ people trying to jump in) I cant recall anyone getting banned for taking part in a node crash.

For a real confirmation i'd wait on a CCP reply. Although you could contact members of any of the following alliances and ask them.

Goons, BOB, TCF, ACSN, TRI, MM, RZR, HYDRA, Legion of xXdeathXx, Intreprid Crossing, Xetic, YouWhat, The Malakai, United Legion, AAA, MC, RA, KOS, AXE, EXE, IAC and probably a whole bunch more. But those are the ones i've fought with or against, and all at some point crashed node(s), deliberatly or not i cant say. (although im damn sure on ACSN, frikkin 350m fleet loggin for a 130m BOB roamer...)

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2008.10.25 14:46:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Hayaishi
Hello, i heard about 3 months ago that log in traps are illegal.

a log in trap is where one or more reds / war targets log off in a system to evade intel until they are needed to attack. and if they do log on and attack off the bat, it would be a bannable offense.

is this correct or have i been miss-informed?





well, i cant tell you much m8, they arent illegal, as was already said because "they cant stop you from logging in / off at anytime" which is a load of hors-hit


the only suggestion i could give you is to **** the **** out of whoever login trapped you, by logoffskiing if they attack you, and spring your own log in trap, and do it multiple times over and over again, make it your only mode of attack, make that what you live for to **** them off

and if you get blobbed by them, there is a trick that many carebear use (at least i think it works like this):

carebear jumps into low sec system and begins aligning for warp, and a pirate gang drops in from an offgrid safespot and attacks him, then carebear pulls the plug, now, the ship will get away no matter how many points you have on it, and (since it has been aggresed) it wont dissapear, but warp to a safespot 1 million km away, then the carebear logs back into game (and, like normal begins warping back to where he was "dc'ed" from) BUT heres the trick, mid warp, the carebear logs off AGAIN before he gets back to wherever he logged off from, and then the ship drops out of warp and warps to ANOTHER safespot (since he is still aggressed)

now the carebear is in a nice safespot and he can warp to 0 on a gate or whatever and escape unharmed (again, i think this is how it works)


they want to play dirty, you should do the same thing until they A.) stop attacking you, or B.) stop playing dirty themselves


hope this helps Crying or Very sad


so, whoever is log in trapping you, just make it your life to **** them the **** off

Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.10.25 15:44:00 - [5]
 

They're a valid tactic, if a little cheap.

Sealteamx
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:13:00 - [6]
 

CCP has clearly stated that, to paraphrase, logging in to or out of the game is never classed as an exploit.

Makes sense, as annoying and 'cheap' as logon traps might be.

Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:39:00 - [7]
 

Some great tips for enjoying a consequence-less game here folks.

BRAVO.Rolling Eyes

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:22:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 28/10/2008 15:25:20
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
They're a valid tactic, if a little cheap.

100% legit. Sure some people will call it cheap or lame but laugh at them. Cheap and Lame were created and used by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and totally outclassed. If it works do it, and don't care what other people think. People who can't take being beaten by something they're uncapable/unwilling to use aren't worth caring about.

Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:30:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 28/10/2008 15:25:20
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
They're a valid tactic, if a little cheap in many people's eyes.

100% legit. Sure some people will call it cheap or lame but laugh at them. Cheap and Lame were created and used by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and totally outclassed. If it works do it, and don't care what other people think. People who can't take being beaten by something they're uncapable/unwilling to use aren't worth caring about.


fixed my post
I don't have any problems whatsoever with them Wink

Kaiserf
Posted - 2008.10.28 21:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 28/10/2008 15:25:20
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
They're a valid tactic, if a little cheap.

100% legit. Sure some people will call it cheap or lame but laugh at them. Cheap and Lame were created and used by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and totally outclassed. If it works do it, and don't care what other people think. People who can't take being beaten by something they're uncapable/unwilling to use aren't worth caring about.


The man makes an excellent point. People who call things 'cheap' and 'lame' are scrubs. If you aren't using these techniques because you think they are 'cheap' you aren't actually playing EvE. Your playing some game you that you've arbitrarily created with its own set of rules. I think thats fine, but don't get in a huff when someone doesn't play by your rules, or better yet, learn to beat them at their own game.

If you refuse to consider using all the tools available to you, you are only delaying/halting your own progress as a player.

Xhintar Thermic
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.29 11:33:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Xhintar Thermic on 29/10/2008 11:35:42
I contacted CCP about this. Their reply was basically: "anything that has something to do with logging on, or logging off, will never be against the rules."

Logoffski is here to stay for good, CCP support the tactic. As much as logging off to avoid pwnage is a viable tactic in their eyes - but what can they do? As I've discussed at length within my corp.. it's not like it's easy to discern who's playing the system and who's not.

Space Wanderer
Posted - 2008.10.29 13:21:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Xhintar Thermic
Logoffski is here to stay for good, CCP support the tactic.


Definitely not correct. The only thing that CCP said is that everything connected with logon or logoff will never be considered a bannable offence. However, nothing in that message means that in the close or far future CCP won't decide to change the game design behaviors underlying login or logout.

Probably they won't, but we basically have no way to know.

Doctor Remulak
Posted - 2008.10.29 14:08:00 - [13]
 

I don't know if it's legal or not, but it sure is weak. FFS, just play the game people.

Tai Paktu
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2008.10.29 19:07:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Tai Paktu on 29/10/2008 19:08:24
Originally by: Xhintar Thermic
Logoffski is here to stay for good, CCP support the tactic.


Incorrect.

Originally by: CCPZulupark

Fixing logoffski:
We'd love to fix it but it's quite hard to do without starting to get heavy handed towards people who have real disconnects/ctd's/network outages


Fixing it requires it to be broken (insert jokes about a bazillion nerfs that have gone live or are going live here). I take this as an admission that logging out during combat isn't something supported by the Devs but it's something that exists to their chagrin.

As for the OP, people here are right. The Devs and GMs will never ban you or call it an exploit for choosing to log in your character. Additionally, they won't do it if 10 people decide to log in at the same time. The only time it could be classed as bannable is if you were trying to crash the node.

It is also seen as cheap or lame by some parties within the game, but so are ganks, can flipping and scams.

(Zulu's response http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=905941)

The Tzar
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.10.30 13:23:00 - [15]
 

Unfortunately logon/offski tricks are completely legal Sad

What you as a pilot are admitting to by using this trick, however, is that
you are unable to compete in this game by using intended game mechanics.

Weak.

Xu Da
Posted - 2008.10.30 13:25:00 - [16]
 

Everyone who thinks login traps are OK hereby revokes the right to *ever* complain about other players logging off. :)

but they are both still meta gaming and lame.

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2008.10.30 15:48:00 - [17]
 

I love logoffski traps!

Fleets im in always have at least one recon prober.... with near max skills. 30 Seconds duration on 40 au scan probe... If they log off agressed they warp to a safespot and sit there for a minute. even if they are logging off and back on you can usually probe em out before they log back on. As well then they are all still needing to refleet up before they can jump to anyone and assist...

As for Mass logging, its completely legal, but frowned upon by ccp cause of the strain on the nodes. The only time i saw it work with near flawless success was when (dont remember which two alliances lets just say A and B) alliance A was attacking a large pos of Alliance B's. What they didnt know is that alliance B had logged off their fleet at a guessed optimal on their pos, just before alliance A entered system. One scout in system watched the alliance A fleet and reported over Vent when he thought all their dreads were in siege. At that point they all logged in and warped back right ontop of the attacking fleets dreads. while the bulk ot the attacking force had moved closer or had went to the gate. It was slaughter to say the least. but boy it was a lag fest....

PhantomMajor
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.11.10 18:51:00 - [18]
 

another tactic is if you know you are being camped or set up for login trap then simply log into eve and then go to work or school or whatever and let your war targets camp a station while you're getting on with life.

fooled some french boys with that one muhahahaha

Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2008.11.12 01:29:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kaiserf


The man makes an excellent point. People who call things 'cheap' and 'lame' are scrubs. If you aren't using these techniques because you think they are 'cheap' you aren't actually playing EvE.
...
If you refuse to consider using all the tools available to you, you are only delaying/halting your own progress as a player.


Or you have a tool mentality. Log off / log on traps are used by the same sort of people that claim if you aren't -10 you aren't a real pirate but use hauling alts and scout alts and generally metagame within the rules of the mechanics.

Its right on up there with those that swear how elite they are, while dual accounting a falcon because they suck; or worse, dual accounting their secret exhumer ninja side alt.

I'm all about ambushes, cheap tactics, and dirty tricks, but the above mentioned sorts of players greatly detract from the flavor of the game.

Jamis Bakar
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.11.13 18:21:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 28/10/2008 15:25:20
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
They're a valid tactic, if a little cheap.

100% legit. Sure some people will call it cheap or lame but laugh at them. Cheap and Lame were created and used by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and totally outclassed. If it works do it, and don't care what other people think. People who can't take being beaten by something they're uncapable/unwilling to use aren't worth caring about.


Completely and totally outclassed because you have two alts in Falcons logged off and ready to go? That's got f-all to do with anyone being "outclassed". What's funny/sad is that I think you actually believe you're a better PVPer because you're doing it.

Terraform
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.11.13 20:59:00 - [21]
 

Agree, logoff traps and the like is completely crap, weak and lame. It's metagaming at its worst.

If you think you're outclassing people by using what is in fact a flaw in the system you've got so much more to learn. Use the games mechanics instead of trying to exploit every single thing you bump across.


EggChen
Posted - 2008.11.14 05:50:00 - [22]
 

While I agree the tactics are to be frowned upon it is simply a part of the game that we must face. Its not realy any different than suicide ganks in empire. Yeah it sucks to get your ity 5 blasted carrying 6 bill worth of stuff, but just because they used questionable tactics that I frown upon means nothing other than I try to play more honorably.

Heikki
Gallente
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.11.14 13:43:00 - [23]
 

1. Logins and similar metagaming should be whined upon, and removed by CCP

2. While they exists and are legal, think its better to treat them morally accepted tactic to 'good guys' (==you) as well since the bad guys (==they) will use them anyway.

That is, complaints of such tactics shouldn't really be addressed to other players; it will just create frustration and feeling on unfairness. Just remind CCP about the matter after the incident.

-Lasse
of which doesn't follow that it is good idea to do all 'morally' bad things

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2008.11.14 13:59:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: EggChen
While I agree the tactics are to be frowned upon it is simply a part of the game that we must face. Its not realy any different than suicide ganks in empire. Yeah it sucks to get your ity 5 blasted carrying 6 bill worth of stuff, but just because they used questionable tactics that I frown upon means nothing other than I try to play more honorably.


Difference here is that CCP has openly stated that suicide ganking is completely valid and encouraged, yet not without consequence. They've openly said (as seen above) that logon/logoffski is borderline exploit but they have no good way of fixing it as of yet.

Paulo Banderez
Posted - 2008.11.14 14:51:00 - [25]
 

They are absolutely not illegal. The police are not going to bang your door down and arrest you and put you before the courts.

Secondly they are neither an infringement of the EULA.

Odhinn Vinlandii
Minmatar
Apolitical
Posted - 2008.11.16 01:42:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Hayaishi
Hello, i heard about 3 months ago that log in traps are illegal.


Yes they are illegal, the FBI has recently established a Special Logoffski Unit.

McTard
Posted - 2008.11.16 04:38:00 - [27]
 

Illegal? No.
Lame is the word most people would use. Unless used against Russians, then perfectly valid.

Dimitryy
Gallente
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2008.11.17 05:07:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: McTard
Illegal? No.
Lame is the word most people would use. Unless used against Russians, then perfectly valid.


*Dimitryy prepares to be indignent, but decides not to*

It is not illegal, and it has it's disadvantages as well, our logon trap got destroyed by a neut dictor dropping a bubble 50km away, we ended up there instead of on the gate, and the bait ship got pwned.

Johnny Gurkha
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.11.17 10:41:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Johnny Gurkha on 17/11/2008 10:41:55

Lame tbh but **** all you can do about it, and hard to prove too unless your fighting total 'tards... easy to name and shame people I've seen doing but no point tbh, keep a prober handy and just hope they log off with aggro

Pteranodon
Caldari
Rekall Incorporated
Posted - 2008.11.17 16:16:00 - [30]
 

I'm curious-what happens if you are scrammed then log off-does this prevent warp & will you get destroyed?

I know that if you log off in a mission whilst being scrammed unless your tank holds you will die so is this true for a PVP attack?


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