open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked FUTURE EVE-ECONOMICS AFTER RELEASE OF ORCA
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Kuosumi'Chura
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:50:00 - [1]
 

Upcomming expansion will introduce the Orca.

On its own a well deserved addition to the Industrial population of Eve.

But..... and here's a big BUT, what will follow is an increased mining capability in empire, which means the prices of lowend ore will decrease rapidly. Therefore prices of all t1 equipement will decrease aswell cause it's cheaper to build. But here's the catch.

In certain areas, the belts are mostly gone. The numbers of totally emptied belts will increase and therefore my prediction is: Future wars will be fought over belt rich systems, mostly in empire and caused by the lack of lowend ores in empire.

Overtime the prices of lowend mins will increase dramatically due to its shortage. I know it will take time to see my perspective taking effect, but it will happen.

Therefore mining Lowend ores in 0.0 could prove to be profittable and those alliances who stock up on these could make loads of profit. This also will attract smaller industrial alliances to work with bigger pvp-alliances to their mutual benefit.

I wonder if my predictions will prove to be a future reality of EVE.

Long Live The "ORCA".Smile

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:23:00 - [2]
 

You really have no idea how the mineral basket works do you?

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:24:00 - [3]
 

I don't think the wars theory will ever happen. Joining an NPC corp instantly invalidates that. As for the price of minerals decreasing, I see this happening in the short term as everyone jumps in to try the new mining ships/assistance but in the long term permanent miners will remain so and others will go back to their regular professions.

So short term likely an influx of minerals (first couple of weeks) after which it will be business as usual.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:25:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
You really have no idea how the mineral basket works do you?

You pre-empted my nerdrage ! DAMN YOU !

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:26:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
You really have no idea how the mineral basket works do you?

You pre-empted my nerdrage ! DAMN YOU !



Just trying to save you from carpal tunnel Wink

Kuosumi'Chura
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:25:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
You really have no idea how the mineral basket works do you?


VERY informative or......nah troll along buddyCool

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:35:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: adriaans on 24/10/2008 13:35:34
i don't know about jita and such but the last week there has been an increasing mineral shortage in rens (trit, pyer etc, mega and zyd seems to be better now than few weeks ago) i doubt prices will go much down, unless ofc the shortage is a form of market maipulation

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kuosumi'Chura
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
You really have no idea how the mineral basket works do you?


VERY informative or......nah troll along buddyCool


I wish everyone would at least take the time to go to eve search first before posting.

It would save them so much time

Phoenix Noir
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:50:00 - [9]
 

While there will certainly be a dip in mineral prices following the player surge to industry following the release of the Orca. Mineral prices will probably remain depressed for quite some time due to Industrial corps becoming more gang oriented; broadening to larger scale mining operations, increasing regularity in putting large amounts of minerals on the market, and a new stability in the member activity of these corporations.

In short, Eve is about to have an Industrial Orgasm Laughing

While wars may not be a direct outcome of this, increased PvP certainly will be with reduced ship prices. This will also probably end up being the setup which will drive us towards tech 3 ships & modules for the future.

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.10.24 14:49:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Ishina Fel on 24/10/2008 14:51:01
Errr... no. Mining lowends in nullsec will never be profitable until the mining/asteroid system is revamped, and I'm not quite sure that anything like that is planned for the foreseeable future.

cosmoray
Perkone
Posted - 2008.10.24 15:06:00 - [11]
 

One thing that might happen.

More high-sec griefing war decs of industrial corps.

It will be easy to spot who has large mining fleets with the Orca in tow. The Orca will provide a very tempting target.

Freakette
Posted - 2008.10.24 15:43:00 - [12]
 

The only thing the Orca is going to do in Highsec is open up the High sec systems with no stations for mining which by the way have tons of unmined asteroids

Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
Posted - 2008.10.24 20:13:00 - [13]
 

theres enough roids for everyone your theory will fail.

SonOfAGhost
Minmatar
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository
Zzz
Posted - 2008.10.24 21:28:00 - [14]
 

For 10% of what you mine, I'll direct you to all the veldspar, scordite and plagioclase you'll ever want.

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2008.10.25 03:00:00 - [15]
 

Your logic fails. Shortage of lowends from mining MORE low end ore than currently? Ooook.

And mining low ends in 0.0? Are you KIDDING?

In the time it takes someone to mine up 40M units of trit I have a non-zero probability of finding a hauler spawn which not only drops 40M units of trit but also 12M pye and possibly some mex, iso or nocx. Meanwhile I'll have generated about 3 million isk of low ends PER BELT from rat droppings if I cared to loot.

If low ends are that scarce from mining people will just roll level4s with veldspar belts. The amount of low end ore in highsec is limitless, unlike 0.0.

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2008.10.25 03:12:00 - [16]
 

I just wish we could limit the number of ORCA threads. Seriously, do we need a new one every time someone wants to post about it?

Polly Prissypantz
Dingleberry Appreciation Society
Posted - 2008.10.25 05:19:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 25/10/2008 05:19:48
Apart for the barely noticeable mining foreman bonus, the Orca doesn't really increase potential mining capacity and contrary to the OP's post, the sky is not falling.

What the Orca does offer is:

- A minor mining foreman bonus bringing high-sec mining into line with low-sec mining (compared to Rorqual bonus).

- A mid-range hauler for moving goods around Empire, although considering the price-tag you're still better off just forking out for a freighter.

- The ability to move rigged ships that are smaller than BS size around empire without having to fly them manually. If you've ever owned a large fleet of rigged PvP ships, you'll know that this is a big deal - owning a carrier is swell and dandy, but there are times when you simply don't want to be tied to 0.0/low-sec and having to cyno your ship around. My understanding is that Orca does not have the 'industrial only' limit that the Rorqual has. If it does I will be sad and cry in a corner.

- Ability for mining ops to dump their ore directly into the corporate hangar array (for corp members), essentially removing the need to jet can mine. Those poor, poor can flippers. Whatever will they do?

So, while it's not exactly a super duper omgwtf addition, it certainly has useful roles that will come in handy, even for non-miners.*

*CCP reserves the right to screw over any actual usefulness prior to release of the ship, and has been known to do so.

CornerStoner
Posted - 2008.10.25 06:02:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Kuosumi'Chura
In certain areas, the belts are mostly gone. The numbers of totally emptied belts will increase and therefore my prediction is: Future wars will be fought over belt rich systems, mostly in empire and caused by the lack of lowend ores in empire.


Ignorance on this level is offensive.




Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2008.10.25 08:28:00 - [19]
 

It could be me, but I see the price of all minerals going up, instead of down. Each Orca devours ~400M isk worth of minerals and everyone who operates a significant amount of time in High Sec will want one, that means a huge demand for these ships, and a huge demand for the materials for the components that build the ships.

Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
Posted - 2008.10.25 10:07:00 - [20]
 

I see minerals going up as well. At this point people stil start stockpiling low ends, specifically mex and nox. Without the ability of mineral compression, I don't see a real use for the Orca other than the "I have to have one of these" people. It doesn't provide anything useful to High-Sec mining at all. Saving a couple of trips in an Iteron 5 is not justifiable for a cost of 400+ mil.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.


Wad

Bloody Rabbit
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.25 15:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Wadaya
I see minerals going up as well. At this point people stil start stockpiling low ends, specifically mex and nox. Without the ability of mineral compression, I don't see a real use for the Orca other than the "I have to have one of these" people. It doesn't provide anything useful to High-Sec mining at all. Saving a couple of trips in an Iteron 5 is not justifiable for a cost of 400+ mil.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.


Wad


I was putting up small POS in systems without stations, but now I can use this for my 3 man mining op.

Also I will be using this for ice mining.

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2008.10.25 17:25:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Clair Bear on 25/10/2008 17:26:37
Originally by: Wadaya
I see minerals going up as well. At this point people stil start stockpiling low ends, specifically mex and nox. Without the ability of mineral compression, I don't see a real use for the Orca other than the "I have to have one of these" people. It doesn't provide anything useful to High-Sec mining at all. Saving a couple of trips in an Iteron 5 is not justifiable for a cost of 400+ mil.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.


Wad


Not as much as you think. I can use up 15x as many minerals in the time it takes to produce an orca building T1 battleships. To put it in perspective that's 6B worth of minerals vs orca's 400M in the same timeframe -- remember that around 300 hours are needed to produce the cap ship components in the first place!

If they're as popular as everyone thinks it'll decrease mineral demand as people clog up their pipes with orca runs.

My prediction: we've already seen the biggest effect we're likely to see. People have already run up lowend prices and produced the capship components. Once the prints hit all they have to do is staple the final product together.

Also, it's not a *COST* of 400M. It's an investment of 400m -- slight difference. You can reprocess and get the 400M of minerals back at any time, or re-sell the ship. Depending on what your investments are yielding that's a cost of ownership as low as 40M a month -- eminently worth it.

Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
Posted - 2008.10.25 21:12:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Clair Bear


Also, it's not a *COST* of 400M. It's an investment of 400m -- slight difference. You can reprocess and get the 400M of minerals back at any time, or re-sell the ship. Depending on what your investments are yielding that's a cost of ownership as low as 40M a month -- eminently worth it.



I believe I used cost correctly, as that is the price of the ship. Goods have a "cost" , endeavors have an investment. As an investment, that 400 mil could be put to much better use for much better returns. If you think the Orca as is will be a good investment, then I wish you all the luck. I'm just saying in my opinion, doesn't really bring anything to the table.

Now while I don't see the practical use of the Orca, I hope it sells like hotcakes, which will create a very nice dent in the mineral supply, causing prices to rise while people stock up before the expansion, and those who don't have the foresight to plan ahead will create an immediate strain on the market post expansion launch, as was seen with the Tier 2 Battlecruisers and Tier 3 Battleships. Would be very nice for some people if Nox hit 600+/unit for awhile Very Happy


Wad

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.10.25 21:47:00 - [24]
 

frankly, I dont feel the orca would change much...

I mean:

for mining bonus: you got the dedicated commandship who give better bonus. (key being dedicated... yes, theres tons of us out of work CS pilots)

for hauling bulk: Freighter beat orca

for hauling ore: Occator/indy 5 is kind .. and faster too.


only thing it got going for it is the tractor beam... but any co-ordinated group would have bookmarked the cans for their industrial ships...

oh, there are uses for it..

hauling rigged ships XD




OutOfTheBox Cyborg
Posted - 2008.10.26 01:05:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: OutOfTheBox Cyborg on 26/10/2008 01:09:51
Originally by: CornerStoner
Originally by: Kuosumi'Chura
In certain areas, the belts are mostly gone. The numbers of totally emptied belts will increase and therefore my prediction is: Future wars will be fought over belt rich systems, mostly in empire and caused by the #
lack of lowend ores in empire.


Ignorance on this level is offensive.






Trying to score forum points off of a newb over game mechanics is really not good for the health of your e-peen.

To the op, a few hubs have had their belts permanently removed, but in other systems farmers may have mined the belts dry. If this is the case, ccp will occasionally reseed them. It has been 4 years or so since I've mined, but if things haven't changed, from what I remember the belts regenerate at a daily rate, but if they are mined dry they may stay that way for a short while.




Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.26 02:41:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: OutOfTheBox Cyborg
It has been 4 years or so since I've mined
Then what you know is completely outdated. Truly told it is, things have changed from the way they were back then. I make sure that I don't go more than 6 months without doing some serious mining. Great way to keep in touch with that part of the game.

Don't worry, I know, we all know. Your time is to valuable to do anything so menial. (Just thought I'd spare you the trouble of lying... errr... telling us.)

Tiirae
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.10.26 03:08:00 - [27]
 

I will probably mine again once the orca is released, as the logistic hassle of flying around emptying jet cans every few minutes was what stopped me doing it. With the orca I can store about 6 jetcans worth of ore (haven't looked at it very hard, maybe its one or two more or less) which means I can do it a lot better while working or doing other stuff.

So I would think we will see a noticable jump in high-sec mining that will drop off but not quite go back to today's levels. So an overall drop in prices of 5% or so. Maybe.

But anyway, I really laughed when you started mentioning wars over belts. 90% of the belts in eve are not mined at all, we are *years* away from any real scarcity of minable roids. Try visiting minmatar or amarr space sometime.

I've been mining in a 0.7 system 5 jumps from rens for two years and I've never seen a can flipper or more than 5 people in system; there is a refinery in system and about 17 belts full of omber/scord/veld. The idea that new eden is close to being mined out is hilarious.




McFly
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2008.10.26 04:05:00 - [28]
 

Sorry but I totally disagree with the OP. For the most part the same restrictions of Mining exist. Hulks will be popping high sec roids in a single cycle more often. So the Hulks will be moving much more often, leading to more activity while mining. High Sec belts will be stripped marginally quicker, however there are too many people who are lazy in highsec. So they wont move their operation anywhere more valuable. The people that actually want a profit will move to more unused regions with low populations like the outlying Gallente and Amarr Regions.

I doubt CCP will change the belt spawn, so it'll lead to more mining corps moving to other places and mining farther from their base of operations. So yes more minerals will be infused in the market, but I think the demand will be high enough for Orca and other manufacturing to keep it balanced. Orca Market frenzy will continue well after the patch I would guess 4 months until the price starts to level out.

--McFly--

Ami Nia
Posted - 2008.10.26 05:36:00 - [29]
 

IMO the direct impact of the Orca on the mineral market could be close to nil if it is introduced together with T3

Sir TanksALot
Posted - 2008.11.15 23:55:00 - [30]
 

i dont think the orca will have an adverse effect on the market nut rather the reverse for a while. you cant actually mine in an orca. its not a uber hulk. its a larger freighter. most high sec miners will not be flying them as you loose your hulk pilot just to sit in the ship and run tractor beams. basically making him a hauler. for small high sec corps it will boost fleet mining ops but like the rorqual all it can use so mine is mining drones. the craze to build them has driven mineral prices up but that will platoe in a couple weeks as they finaly start coming off the assembly lines. the orca cant run the industrial core so no ore compression. it cant mount turrets or bays so it has limited pvp ability in high sec. neuts noses and smart bombs are about it. with no turret points you cant mount mining lasers and the orca has only 1/100th the power required to use a single strip miners. it does not have the power bonuses the mining barges do. it can cary 2 hulks but you have to eject from the ship to use barges thus leaving the ship vulnerable to being boarded. and stolen

the same mining bonuses the orca gives can be given bye any other command ship or battle cruiser with the mining foreman links. it just makes a command ship easier to get into for an industrialist. and single player using the orca for mining would have to be running multiple accounts and he can produce more overall just with another hulk.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only