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CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2008.10.23 11:17:00 - [1]
 

Those of you with a strong yen for easier weapon management are going to like Ytterbium’s newest dev blog. Weapon grouping is just around the corner, and Ytterbium gives the skinny on how grouping will work with turrets and launchers. No more manually loading up each and every weapon, nor having your screen filled with up to eight weapons. Weapon grouping will make it easier to kill your enemy hassle-free. Read the blog here!

Irulan S'Dijana
Amarr
Drexler Burnum Inc.
Rising Phoenix Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:20:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Irulan S''Dijana on 23/10/2008 11:28:48
Edited by: Irulan S''Dijana on 23/10/2008 11:28:34
I am Amarr.

/hip thrusts

Gun Hog
Caldari
APEX ARDENT COALITION
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:31:00 - [3]
 

Ratters, mission runners, and PvPers everywhere will thank you for this! No more F1-F8! Now it is just F1 Laughing

Princess Kristie
Caldari
Scion Innovations
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:33:00 - [4]
 


Why do I still feel worried about overloading my guns since it becomes very tricky to oversee them...

Gawain Hill
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:36:00 - [5]
 

so now instead of having just one or two crystals needing reloading each and every gun will try to load the same crystal every single time you try to change crystals? and then all need reloading for each gun in the group? how is this a good thing?

or does fixing the amarr ammo changing get included in this little idea too?

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:43:00 - [6]
 

Grouping Mining Lasers please! ugh

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:45:00 - [7]
 

I like dis.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:46:00 - [8]
 

I have wanted something similar for some time now. Thanks for the blog and the new feature.

Complete Tart
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:54:00 - [9]
 

This is a great addition

Aba D'houk
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Gawain Hill
so now instead of having just one or two crystals needing reloading each and every gun will try to load the same crystal every single time you try to change crystals? and then all need reloading for each gun in the group? how is this a good thing?

or does fixing the amarr ammo changing get included in this little idea too?


Its the stealth "make sure amarr still sucks" nerf, What would a patch be without it :P

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:17:00 - [11]
 

ive been messing around on sisi with cruise missiles and torps. It's pretty good. Ive also watched other people. I must say... it doesnt seem many people care to use this system. Perhaps because there's issues with the system a few patches ago.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Chribba
Grouping Mining Lasers please! ugh

I guess it cant hurt to allow it... but honestly... it's better to split your lasers among the different roids. That's my experience anyway.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:21:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Gawain Hill
so now instead of having just one or two crystals needing reloading each and every gun will try to load the same crystal every single time you try to change crystals? and then all need reloading for each gun in the group? how is this a good thing?

or does fixing the amarr ammo changing get included in this little idea too?

Nobody says you have to use grouping.

Also afaik it is said that the damage is shared equally. So if you start off with all fresh crystals from day one. In group. It shouldnt be an issue; they ought to burn out at the same time.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:51:00 - [14]
 

wait ... so instead of an UI only feature you created something that has more limitations than usability ?

how is that good ?

I mean I have to have all the same guns on the ship ... so a Thorax with 3 ions and 2 electrons (quite common setups on blaster ships to max damage is to mix guns to fiting limit) will have to have 2 groups minimum ...

oh and the missile to defender change hmm ... Warhead upgrades ? balistic controls ? missile damage rigs ? won't they make your calculations incorrect ?

all changes done by CCP lately are heading the wrong direction ...

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:54:00 - [15]
 

uhh wtf ? did the smartbomb "trick" worked before. Does this mean I could of set one up and defend myself again missiles ? uhh, yeah, it is unbalanced in some way even if you have to be perfectly timed to release your smartbomb. I can already imagine people training for this and using this tactic instead. Give it a couple of months and you'll see threads like "nerf the guns".

Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:07:00 - [16]
 

CCP, I think we will need a button (bindable keyboard shortcut) that when pressed will automatically un-stagger all grouped weapons and make them shoot sequentially. In the case of missiles, for example, instead of one big missile, it would shoot a stream of missiles, while the button is held down, and switch back to one uber-missile when button is released.

And, trying to prevent a possible bug in your implementation: We can drag the guns around so they appear in different spots, rather than be nicely lined up in the F1-F8 position like you're showing. Does your grouping interface still work if our weapons are spread all over the HUD placeholders (f.ex. 8 guns in F1-F3, Alt-F1, Alt-F2, Ctrl F1, Ctrl-F2)?

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:08:00 - [17]
 

As turret user I am a happy panda..

As missile user I am an utterly sad panda..

And I am not crying for the coming smartbomb boost on battleships, its a rather cool feature to negate missile damage as only carebears will use the missile grouping, I am more argueing about the looks...

The "big" missile looks sooooo uncool and ugly that I would already call it an immersion breaker, seriously.

So for missile users this is mostly a feature you don't care about as you better don't use it anways. As a PvPer that is.

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:10:00 - [18]
 

Weapon Grouping = GOOD
Telling everyone that SmartBombs are better than Defenders = BAD
Watching people use SmartBombs nuking their own drones = LOL

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:16:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: I SoStoned on 23/10/2008 13:19:57
Good idea!

Was this something that had been 'on the back burner' or did the CSM threads in the Assembly Hall bring this idea forward?

I like Letouk's idea even better. Salvo & Stagger options. Since all the weapons must be fully identical then such a calculation would be very simple as far as DB calls.

If your launcher/railgun/arty has a cycle time of 8 seconds you can either fire an Alpha salvo every 8 seconds, or a single shot every 1 second.
Or, with short range weapons, fire a single shot every 0.23 seconds (Sabrer w/ 8 autos linked!!!). *evil killmail hogging grin*

Kakita J
Placid Reborn
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:33:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Kakita J on 23/10/2008 13:33:47
I seem to remember this came up in the suggestions forum. Cool stuff you're implementing it... the way you're balancing smartbombs and defenders sounds sensible enough, but we need to try this out some to get a proper feeling.

edit: nevermind, it's in the blog

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:46:00 - [21]
 

From reading the log, it sounds as if Weapon Grouping will only allow me to launch volleys.

While volleys are sometimes fun and/or tactically pertinent, there are other situations where I'd prefer to launch my missiles sequentially.

Can't this be automated too, as another function of weapon grouping? The game can do it better than I can, by taking the RoF of my launchers, dividing the RoF by the number of launchers in the group, and then firing one missile at each interval.

I realize server load is higher for this function than for alpha-style volleys, but I like the string-of-missiles approach, some of the time, and I'll just continue doing it manually if I can't have it automatically.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:47:00 - [22]
 

I had hoped for combined weapon damage calculations.

Oh well, I had hoped my 1400mm Artillery ll would see the glorious return of the Alpha-Damage with weapons grouping and wrecking hits.
Sad

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:16:00 - [23]
 

how will this affect wrecking shots?

JiJiCle
Gallente
Kermit Space Industies
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:31:00 - [24]
 

/agree for sequencial firing mode idea
Why not in the right click menu of the group where you can switch to sequential mode ?
Interval between shots would be ModuleRoF/(NumberOfModule+1)

To go a bit further, it would also be cool to be able to choose each group interval between 0(volley mode) and continous fire(ModuleRoF/NumberOfModule+1)

Last thing for your future addition on this new UI feature, please consider enabling non-turrent/launcher(but chargeless) groups
grouping all hardeners/damage controls, tacling gear or tracking comps/sensor booster to differents groups would really clean up the UI and ease piloting.
You can add some drawbacks for such groups, like: all mods must be activated at the same or none will (if lacking capa for the third mod of the group, none would activate)

This is a really cool first step in module grouping, please go on Very Happy

JiJiCle
Gallente
Kermit Space Industies
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:33:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
how will this affect wrecking shots?

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
How are the grouped weapons attributes calculated?
The system was designed to retain balance between grouped and individual weapons. For example, damage multiplier and capacitor consumption will be properly multiplied depending on the number of grouped weapons, while falloff, tracking, range will remain the same. Hit dice is rolled separately for each module that is grouped while taking into account wrecking hits, so you won’t have a wrecking hit taking the summed up damage of all weapons (which would just be insane).
Rolling Eyes

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:39:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: JiJiCle
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
how will this affect wrecking shots?

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
How are the grouped weapons attributes calculated?
The system was designed to retain balance between grouped and individual weapons. For example, damage multiplier and capacitor consumption will be properly multiplied depending on the number of grouped weapons, while falloff, tracking, range will remain the same. Hit dice is rolled separately for each module that is grouped while taking into account wrecking hits, so you won’t have a wrecking hit taking the summed up damage of all weapons (which would just be insane).
Rolling Eyes


whoops, missed that partEmbarassed

Tiirae
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:50:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Salpad
From reading the log, it sounds as if Weapon Grouping will only allow me to launch volleys.

While volleys are sometimes fun and/or tactically pertinent, there are other situations where I'd prefer to launch my missiles sequentially.

Can't this be automated too, as another function of weapon grouping? The game can do it better than I can, by taking the RoF of my launchers, dividing the RoF by the number of launchers in the group, and then firing one missile at each interval.

I realize server load is higher for this function than for alpha-style volleys, but I like the string-of-missiles approach, some of the time, and I'll just continue doing it manually if I can't have it automatically.



Sounds to me like this is mostly being done for network and server load optimisation. It would make no sense if it let you fire off a sequence of shots.



Johncrab
Minmatar
Teram Odator Rilfur Pegastur
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:54:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Johncrab on 23/10/2008 14:54:54
About time you guys started working on this. Much needed feature. It will help a lot with changing ammo types and clear out some much needed space on overview, mainly on 7/8 high slots ships.

I imagine there's a lot of calculations and then optimizations to be done but the begining seems promissing. Hope to see this real soon on SISI so we can make sure there's no bugs associated with weapon grouping when it hitts TQ.

Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:59:00 - [29]
 

I have one question about stacked guns. With guns, you sometimes kill a target with only part of the volley, be it last or first shot. Either way, some of the guns don't fire, since the target is dead. Thus they don't use ammo, or cycle. How will stacking affect this, will the guns now all use ammo, and if the target is already dead its already dead your bullets miss? I don't really care either way, would simply like to know.

Otherwise this is awesome in my eyes.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2008.10.23 15:11:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 23/10/2008 15:11:11
Originally by: Reptzo
I have one question about stacked guns. With guns, you sometimes kill a target with only part of the volley, be it last or first shot. Either way, some of the guns don't fire, since the target is dead. Thus they don't use ammo, or cycle. How will stacking affect this, will the guns now all use ammo, and if the target is already dead its already dead your bullets miss? I don't really care either way, would simply like to know.

Otherwise this is awesome in my eyes.


I think it's safe to say that since all guns will fire at the exact same instant (they are really just one big helluva gun), all the ammo that does not apply to the target (because it's dead already) will be wasted. It would be same if you managed to fire all your guns at the same time. I personally think that's a tiny sacrifice to make for such an awesome feature. (especially since I fly Amarr :D)


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