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blankseplocked [Issue] No new thread posting except for the CSM... replys 4 everyone
 
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Ignition SemperFi
No Falcons Allowed
Posted - 2008.10.21 22:46:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 21/10/2008 23:03:11
Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 21/10/2008 22:56:28

Now before everyone cites me for a hypocrite, I have used this forum in the past and still continue to watch/post in this forum.

My problem is anyone can post in a forum that is actively watched by the CSM(hopefully), while in reality all it is, is another faucet/forum for people to post their suggestions, ideas, whines, bugs, nerf this, or boost this posts. These forums are already in place with Game development, features & ideas, and the eve general discussion. The CSM should already be looking at the features and ideas forum, as well as game development. The assembly hall is where the pod pilots can show their support for the issues the CSM bring forward. Then after seeing the support, or lack there of, can decide to take it to a vote or not during the CSM meeting

I propose that the ability to make new posts in this forum be reserved only for CCP and the CSM. Now once a post is made, anyone can reply to the thread in support for or against the idea (thumbs down proposal - http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=860960)

This way CCP and the CSM can see how the EVE pilots feel about the issues that may be brought up. This prevents the massive multiple posts about the same issue, the threadnaughts of usesless drivel, and spam to bury important issues.

Now alot of people might disagree, but I would much rather go back to posting on the original forums for my complaints, ideas, issues... then come to Assembly hall to see what issues the CSM are looking at before they go into their votes to escalate issues.

Now you may not support this issue, because since posting your idea in Assembly hall it got pushed through or maybe some other issue. In reality this is just a features and ideas forum remade and now we have almost the same posts on both forums.

For examples: One just has to look at the multiple - Ghost training/Skill que threads on this board & features & ideas. Many other ideas also have and continue to be double posted serving no other purpose than... Hey look at me, i spam more so my issues get dealt with

Ignition SemperFi
No Falcons Allowed

Posted - 2008.10.21 22:49:00 - [2]
 

supporting my idea to only allow the CSM to post threads here (ccp excluded), and all others can only reply... while giving their thumbs up, or hopefully at somepoint thumbs down on the issues

Thargat
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.

Posted - 2008.10.21 22:52:00 - [3]
 

Best post so far this month

Uilliam Nebel
Amarr
13th Udorian Rangers

Posted - 2008.10.21 22:59:00 - [4]
 

Agreed. Also it is just doesn't make any sense to present an idea here. Soon it gets confusing as to what exactly is being supported, as many support post state they only support an issue if it conforms to some addition of their own. That makes it entirely to hard I would imagine for the CSM to determine what the issue / solution they will be debating and approaching CCP about even is.

Ignition SemperFi
No Falcons Allowed
Posted - 2008.10.21 23:01:00 - [5]
 

Now the problem can arise that your CSM, can start bring forth pet projects that really wasnt something the main playerbase was asking for. Same thing happens with real life elected officials.

As a balance hopefully the CSM would site links to the other forums when they start a topic so the pyramids of discussion are still hashed in the main forum, while leaving this forum mainly for a "support", "dont support", "ill support if, then, else" type environment.

But i didnt want to put that as a mandatory requirement in my request. But i do feel it should still be encouraged if my proposal is widely accepted and finally adopted by ccp

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.10.21 23:12:00 - [6]
 

If we used that system we'd barely have any topics at all and mostly dumb ones that only self-serve the CSM members.

Instead, this forum should be moderated. There are too many whine threads, ideas and spam threads in the AH that never get moved. AH has become a dumping ground for terrible ideas and random insignificant *****ing threads, leaving GD terribly empty.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2008.10.21 23:56:00 - [7]
 

I can't support this proposal - it'd stifle the democracy that the CSM is supposed to be promoting.

However, I do agree with what i think is your main complaint - the forums utterly lack definition, and as such they all just form an undifferentiated mess. I've always thought of the Assembly Hall as the place for finalized proposals, submitted in a form where they're immediately usable by the CSM, and the other forums as place for idea development. Jita Park should be used for topics about the CSM only - candidate threads, meeting minutes, and idea development for ideas about the CSM - things like "How can the CSM better communicate with players?" and "What should we use as rules of order?". I'd be entirely in favour of putting a sticky at the top of the Assembly Hall, to identify exactly what the CSM expects to see out of threads here, to attempt to clean up this mess. Players should be encouraged to participate directly, but they should also be encouraged to keep everything in the right forum.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.10.22 09:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
I can't support this proposal - it'd stifle the democracy that the CSM is supposed to be promoting.

However, I do agree with what i think is your main complaint - the forums utterly lack definition, and as such they all just form an undifferentiated mess. I've always thought of the Assembly Hall as the place for finalized proposals, submitted in a form where they're immediately usable by the CSM, and the other forums as place for idea development. Jita Park should be used for topics about the CSM only - candidate threads, meeting minutes, and idea development for ideas about the CSM - things like "How can the CSM better communicate with players?" and "What should we use as rules of order?". I'd be entirely in favour of putting a sticky at the top of the Assembly Hall, to identify exactly what the CSM expects to see out of threads here, to attempt to clean up this mess. Players should be encouraged to participate directly, but they should also be encouraged to keep everything in the right forum.

Yep, I fully agree with this. I think we need some better guidelines for where to past what and when.

Ignition SemperFi
No Falcons Allowed
Posted - 2008.10.22 11:22:00 - [9]
 

well yes if the moderation was being done. Topics presented by the CSM, or brought by the players and later endorsed by a CSM should get a sticky.

I was going more towards the other extreme just for the sheer fact that there isnt the moderation and something needs to be done to stifle the filth and growing amount of spam "ideas" just because someone used [heyiamimportantbrackets]

Either way something needs to be done.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.10.22 12:31:00 - [10]
 

My opinion on this matter:

- Ideas or issues without a previous discussion should not be put up to vote, vote and discussion threads should be cross-linked to each other.

- Discussions should only happen on threads dedicated to this in the appropriate sub-forums, i.e. Ship tweaking goes to Ships and Modules, CSM Issues go to the Jita Corner, etc.

- Threads on the assembly hall should only be used for voting.

- A Dev needs to be assigned to the CSM that does enforce the posting rules, only CSM members should report unfitting threads in the Assembly hall.


This would at least create more focus on the voting aspect of the Assembly Hall and the democratic process represented by that. It would eliminate all the bad ideas and stuff no one cares about out of the Assembly Hall and puts the discussion of issues into the places where people caring for them are frequently looking around.

A bit more focus and coordination would do the CSM a big favour.

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2008.10.23 08:23:00 - [11]
 

I can't say anything that hasn't already been said ... but this idea DOES NOT have my support.

Fail idea is fail.

NaMorham Santorin
Caldari
Raptor Ops
Kamikaze Project
Posted - 2008.11.06 00:10:00 - [12]
 


Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.11.06 17:32:00 - [13]
 

I only HALF support this.

A: Over half the people here.... no offense of course.... DONT BOTHER TO READ OR THINK BEFORE THEY FRAKKING POST.

Sorry... but thats a fact. Sometimes of which I'm guilty of (will by not searching for older topics).
Most of them are hate threads/trolls/deconstructive/repeat.

B: CSM cant have the full rights to this board while we can only repy.... would make things tough.


Compromise: We only grant those who have proven to be effective and trustworthy with the job... while only allowing everyone else to reply.
The CSM can grant rights to those who obviously aren't here for ####s and giggles.... let alone to cause trouble.

WheatGrass
Silent but Friendly
Posted - 2008.12.26 02:35:00 - [14]
 

It's too bad that then that the purpose of the Assembly Hall was apparently not clearly defined or thought out from the onset.

If it helps to make the forum less of the monster it has become then, yes, I'm for it. I wonder how the damage can be undone.

FunzzeR
Legion of the Scottish Fold

Posted - 2008.12.26 06:07:00 - [15]
 

I partially support this, The intent of the CSM is act as a conduit between players and CCP. So only allowing a few people(CSM members) to start threads would probably render the original intent a moot point.

However I do feel that there should be more moderation to weed out all the troll and whine threads or move them to their appropriate area. Alternately new ideas for ships, low sec, sov, etc, should be initially posted and "approved" in the features and ideas discussion of the forums. So maybe put the Thumbs up/down function for the Features and Ideas discussion of the forums perhaps?

Either way I agree, something probably should be done.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.12.26 06:49:00 - [16]
 

Firstly support up or down means nothing. Look at treelox... he is negative on EVERYTHING. There are others who support EVERYTHING.

PS response to this thread is at bottom.

Quote:
In reality this is just a features and ideas forum remade and now we have almost the same posts on both forums.

IT really isnt. Features and ideas is there just as a place to trash topics ccp doesnt solicit. Virtually nothing you can think up... hasnt been thought up by ccp. there are loads of ideas that are good and ccp would love to do them... but they dont have a strong enough gfx department or whatever to do it.

Then CCP found the effect of anything they say there becomes SO effect. One ccp might say... hey that's a good idea. Then everyone thinks it's going to happen. Or if the CCP dumps the idea... who do they blame? CCP is who.

Create CSM as the buffer. CSM says it's a good idea... doesnt mean it's going to happen. CSM says it's a bad idea... CSM get the blame. CCP lives on. CSM doesnt get voted back.

CSM does its purpose. CCP is going to do what CCP does. Nothing is going to change it. Features nor CSM.


Now you have this thread. I say no because if you have an issue you want brought up... what csm is going to post it and see what happens? Just bringing up the idea might mean no getting CSM back. If all ideas are going to be posted through a CSM anyway... all you do is serve to throw up a gauntlet ideas have to run through and make the lazy not care; meaning good ideas dont make it through.

How about another CSM-only post area where they do as you say... and they skim assembly hall for ideas to post; give their idea on it. Then we the peanut gallery can comment there.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force

Posted - 2008.12.26 07:08:00 - [17]
 

Makes sense... the two subforums were kind of redundant as they are right now anyway.
Speaker's corner for rough drafts of ideas, Assembly hall for official preliminary versions only.
But... meh... I don't know... oh well, 75% support anyway Wink

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.12.26 09:10:00 - [18]
 

As for a lot of poster, partially supported.

Generally you get better discussion about an idea in the relevant forums (i.e. the market forum for an idea that impact the market, science and industry when you speak of mining and so on). On the other hand this is the forum for voting ideas to present before the CSM and then CCP and limit the suggested ideas to what the CSM propose is counterproductive.

Probably a stronger moderation of the forum, were duplicating thread are referenced to the main thread on the argument and closed would make it better. To that add a better browser capable of restricting the search on a topic to a single section of the forum so that you can check if a argument was already proposed without tons of false positives.



Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2008.12.26 09:24:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Jason Edwards on 26/12/2008 09:26:52
evelopedia would work here also.

Create a CSM category.
Create the different issues as different articles and pop them into that category. The talk page then can be used by the CSMs and others to comment on the article.

Perhaps I will index some basic ideas and proposals that are good and toss them up there.

edit/ Just noticed there is already a CSM category.

Kaijusan
Gallente
Austro-Hungarian Empire
Elysium Alliance
Posted - 2008.12.26 10:35:00 - [20]
 

I knew it was only a matter of time before some fascist ideology would get proposed here for the sole purpose of shutting up the people.

NO NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO



Terra Mikael
Horizon Dynamics
Posted - 2008.12.27 07:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kaijusan
I knew it was only a matter of time before some fascist ideology would get proposed here for the sole purpose of shutting up the people.

NO NO NO A THOUSAND TIMES NO





Zomg fascism?

****ing supported!!LaughingLaughing

Orb Vex
Posted - 2008.12.28 10:18:00 - [22]
 

Fascism is typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic, by way of a strong, single-party government for enacting laws and a strong militia or police force for enforcing them through threat of reprisal against dissidents or through political violence directed at opponents.

(David Baker, The political economy of fascism: Myth or reality, or myth and reality? New Political Economy, Volume 11, Issue 2 June 2006 , pages 227 – 250)

That´s not my opinion on this topic, just definition of aspect of fascism Wink

Orb Vex
Posted - 2008.12.28 10:29:00 - [23]
 

I think that Assembly Hall needs more moderation and not forbidding rules. Categories could be good too. So I will not support this.

Ignition SemperFi
No Falcons Allowed
Posted - 2008.12.29 16:13:00 - [24]
 

catagories would be great subforum stuff.. but it still evades the basic need for moderation

you will always have the idiots that propose the same ideas posted multiple times in different forums.

i would rather not have to deal with what i originally posted, if there was proper moderation. Until then i would rather use F&I, and GD for most posts and deal with a more strict forum rule here.

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood

Posted - 2009.02.10 15:19:00 - [25]
 


Karii Ildarian
Caldari
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2009.02.10 15:58:00 - [26]
 

Add 10% skill loss upon being podded and I'll support it as well.

Efrim Black
Gallente
Thanatos Industries
Posted - 2009.02.10 21:55:00 - [27]
 

No.

The system in place is an Ancient Greek style of democratic congress. Everyone is allowed to propose, debate, and support ideas.

The csm acts as a governing body above the congress, picking the ideas that seem to be the most supported and then pressing them upon the oligarchy that is CCP.

Not supported. The only thing missing from Assembly hall is a Thumbs down feature.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.02.11 04:55:00 - [28]
 

This forum needs three things:

1) It needs a couple of people with moderation powers who can delete the "blithering idiot" posts entirely so that posts with well thought out and constructive content don't shoot to page 3 after a few hours.

2) It needs a thumbs down option so that you can disagree with a really bad idea.

3) It needs to force you to choose thumbs up or thumbs down the first time you reply (with the option to edit it later if the OP makes changes that effect your decision).

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.02.11 10:28:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
The system in place is an Ancient Greek style of democratic congress. Everyone is allowed to propose, debate, and support ideas.


Not so. I see many posts from people who are clearly insane, I myself am a criminal and there are women posting here! Shocked

Laughing

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.02.11 12:30:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
I can't support this proposal - it'd stifle the democracy that the CSM is supposed to be promoting.

However, I do agree with what i think is your main complaint - the forums utterly lack definition, and as such they all just form an undifferentiated mess. I've always thought of the Assembly Hall as the place for finalized proposals, submitted in a form where they're immediately usable by the CSM, and the other forums as place for idea development. Jita Park should be used for topics about the CSM only - candidate threads, meeting minutes, and idea development for ideas about the CSM - things like "How can the CSM better communicate with players?" and "What should we use as rules of order?". I'd be entirely in favour of putting a sticky at the top of the Assembly Hall, to identify exactly what the CSM expects to see out of threads here, to attempt to clean up this mess. Players should be encouraged to participate directly, but they should also be encouraged to keep everything in the right forum.

I third this

The assembly hall is pretty much where I come to judge the mood and heart beat of the playerbase, without a free forum in which suggestions can be aired, CSM members can quickly lose touch and forget who they may be working for which would be a tragedy to say the least.


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