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the plague
Caldari
Anthraxus Defense Laboratories
Posted - 2008.10.20 12:12:00 - [31]
 

we will never give up the lag generator... myself and chribba are the only owners in eve.........

Olex Grant
Minmatar
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.10.20 12:30:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Olex Grant on 20/10/2008 12:44:28
Edited by: Olex Grant on 20/10/2008 12:38:12
Originally by: Nytemaster
As far as the killmails are concerned, we have API imports and all kills/losses are supposed to be automatically posted. I just checked my last loss and it has not posted so there may be something wrong with the API due to some recent changes in the killboard. Can't fault us for not manually posting when it's suppose to do it automatically now can you?

As far as the killboard accuracy, you worry about your own before smacking about someone elses. That goes for everyone who has something to say here.


Thanks for your posts Nyte - good points in both.

The API key is not fool proof, the Huzzah KB also utilises this mod for all corps (Statecorp may not be on this yet, could be wrong there though). I have noticed the GSY one (running through my own API) missing kills and losses which I can see in the corporation window and have had to manually post them.

At the end of the day, there is no real substitute to fostering an atmosphere of integrity within an alliance such that people always post their mails, whether kills or losses. As far as I am concerned, the API mod is just there for those people (and every alliance has them) who resist posting losses and/or who forget/omit posting kills (this can also happen frequently, strangely enough) to mop up those (hopefully few) missing mails.

Myself and Adril Alatar spend alot of time on our killboard, and as such, take great pride in its accuracy, as far as we are able to. I would personally be very, very surprised if our killboard was more than a couple of kills either way out.

All I can do is reiterate, if you find a Huzzah loss (or kill for that matter) not on our board, please bring it to either of our attention and it will be posted.

Originally by: Yendaj

Piece of advice in fighting Huzzah....... Don't!!

If you really really want to upset them.........Go open up a plex in one of their systems or do a bit of npc warrioring..

Then you will really see them cry.........Pants around ankles kind of waaaaaaa

Once you hit them where it hurts.........Their isky farming abilities...

The drama starts to unfold and the gloves come off...


Interesting coming from someone who has never flown against us. I'm not aware of exactly who you are talking about in your post, but that description does not match Huzzah.



Mauddib77
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.10.20 14:36:00 - [33]
 

Killboard link removed. Navigator

Olex Grant
Minmatar
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.10.20 16:07:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Mauddib77
Where did this one go?
Kill Mail Link


Someone keeps deleting that loss.

Kill has been reposted.

If you have any missing kills/losses please contact me or Adril direct rather than on here.

IronGoldenEagle
Caldari
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2008.10.20 17:17:00 - [35]
 

It has been extremely fun to fight Huzzah again. I'm hoping for more as I seem to miss all the battles and get in on the ops where there is no battle Sad. But I realy had forgotten how fun the small gan warfare was out here. Huzzah are not cowards and thats why I respect them as an enemy, and a couple as friends. They will jump into you even if you are superior in numbers. And they pull off wins from. I admire the allainces willing to throw themselves at bigger fleets (not saying either side is blobbing, cuz they not really). Huzzah please keep the fights coming and thank you for not stationing up 23/7.

Remember guys, its a KILLboard, you dont post LOSSES on a KILLboard. GAH! Mad

Ilany
Gallente
Black Moon Mining
Posted - 2008.10.20 18:55:00 - [36]
 

The dreadnought has been returned and is in one of our corp hangars, as is a freighter that we captured (!) when one of your pilots ejected from it in Niarja last night.

As a show of good faith we will not delete the dreadnought killmail from our board, nor will we fabricate a killmail for the freighter.

Rest assured, our killboard is about as accurate as it gets. As Wusti said, we know that, you know that. Thank you to those who accept this and thank you Isira Aljazaki for the free Providence, Hulk and rigged Tristan.

Mortecai
Caldari
Wise Guys
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2008.10.20 19:02:00 - [37]
 

/facepalm

Is this what I am coming back to? Page 2 on a whining thread about killmails not being posted? How lame can you get?

Just ST*U and shoot each other, will ya?

cya in space.


Xorth Adimus
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.10.20 19:12:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Xorth Adimus
Ah Syndicate 'the armpit region' the only really good thing about it is the pvp! Guess what we are here for!

TRS have had allot of fun fighting against the odds the last few weeks in lower Syndicate, holding our own solo against a number of larger coalitions which would always use larger fleets and always use caps and then stillcall for help Laughing and shockingly still fail on more then a few occasions. Wink

This weekend one of our many old friends couldn't wait to drop by and join us to share in the fun and cap kills! YARRRR!!

So who loses to clowns, clown shoes perhaps? Laughing
Maybe you should post with your main and tell us?

Thanks for all the targets and making our visit so much more fun then we expected, it's been so good we extended it!



I was replying to some dirty alt posting c**p, not to huzzah?

I laugh at the idea of TRS 'blobbing' and 'smacking' when that is pretty much the opposite of how we play. I certainly wasn't directing anything at Huzzah or any other alliance so I am puzzled by the response.

There have always been a number of large coalitions that roam through Syndicate and like to try and play the numbers game, say they own the place ('own' npc space Laughing!) and still tragicly fail against TRS. I am sure you know what I mean and take great fun in killing them too.

I love you guys its all good fun, and the killboard shows it with an pretty even split! Good hunting. YARRRR!!



Khales
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2008.10.20 23:38:00 - [39]
 







I love you guys its all good fun, and the killboard shows it with an pretty even split! Good hunting. YARRRR!!





right: HUZZAH VS TRS kills 842 - 275

hope we can keep that even split.

Wusti
Caldari
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2008.10.21 00:06:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Khales



I love you guys its all good fun, and the killboard shows it with an pretty even split! Good hunting. YARRRR!!



right: HUZZAH VS TRS kills 842 - 275

hope we can keep that even split.


Khales - this quote is just completely inaccurate - pls do you proper research before making posts of this type. Current count HF on TRS is actually, according to our KB

632 (HF) v 268 (TRS) with HF holding a 53% or thereabouts efficiency (not including loaded freighter capture Laughing)

The figures quoted by Khales includes stats for Red Skull, THORN, Covenant, Controlled Chaos and Ocularis Inferno. Huzzah apologises for any inconvenience caused.

BTW @ Yendaj - don't worry darling I still wuv you!

Echo VI
Caldari
Knights of Kador
Black Inquisition
Posted - 2008.10.21 02:02:00 - [41]
 

The circus may be starting in PC9, but it'll hit the road real soon. Stay tuned and you may get to see the fat bearded lady sing while we expertly juggle knives.

Gorefacer
Caldari
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2008.10.21 02:15:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Olex Grant

ii. Smack - in all my years of playing Eve, I don't believe I've ever seen smack on the level I have seen from these people.



Haha.

Guess people don't change.

A few are real cool though.


Nytemaster
Gallente
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.10.21 03:35:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: El Covah


Nytemaster, please make your ppl aware of it so they stop writing our alliance leadership silly Mails. Anyhow I must admit reading those is fun.


Please send alliance leadership a copy of those mails so they can be properly dealt with. I am not an alliance leader.

Kyguard
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.21 04:08:00 - [44]
 

The HF killboard could use an updated isk value for ships especially t2. For example a rhea is only 1.5b on it, should be more 3-4 I believe.

Otherwise I've never seen a loss from us missing and I can say the same thing about red skull.

Mistress Suffering
Amarr
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.10.21 06:39:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Mistress Suffering on 21/10/2008 06:53:36
*removed* Found the item in question.

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.10.21 08:51:00 - [46]
 

Killboard link removed. Navigator

Kyguard, brosef, kill you last ok?
wtb more than 2 color options for negative standings, can't tell any of you apart :(


Quote:
As a show of good faith we will not delete the dreadnought killmail from our board, nor will we fabricate a killmail for the freighter.

Rule of thumb we use is, "if the mail has the potential to appear on an enemy kb (meaning it has another player listed on it), then you must post the loss, regardless of the outcome of any petitions for reimbursement due to in game bugs/etc."

In my experience HF killboard is fairly accurate, I can't recall any issues in the past. However it seems your policy has been to remove lossmails that were reimbursed, so I can't say it's as accurate as it could be (such as ours*.)

*due to membership being spread across multiple corps waiting on roles to drop, only kills with a member of notr on them display on our kb. You can practically double the number of kills we've had in the last 36 hours or so, more than triple the isk destroyed (one of the hidden kills was a phoenix). Click on any member to view their kills since 10/19 regardless of actual corp at the time, though not-yet-in-notr losses (2 tech 1 cruisers afaik) are displayed on the kb of their respective corps at the time of the loss.

ChalSto
Gallente
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2008.10.21 17:51:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: the plague
we will never give up the lag generator... myself and chribba are the only owners in eve.........


U wish Wink Twisted Evil

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.10.21 22:52:00 - [48]
 

Quote:
PL has all the dyspro moons in syndicate fyi,
No, they don't.

Kyguard
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.21 23:46:00 - [49]
 

**** Raj, lets nap ;O

Tiberious Marz
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.10.22 00:29:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Xorth Adimus


I was replying to some dirty alt posting c**p, not to huzzah?

I laugh at the idea of TRS 'blobbing' and 'smacking' when that is pretty much the opposite of how we play. I certainly wasn't directing anything at Huzzah or any other alliance so I am puzzled by the response.

There have always been a number of large coalitions that roam through Syndicate and like to try and play the numbers game, say they own the place ('own' npc space Laughing!) and still tragicly fail against TRS. I am sure you know what I mean and take great fun in killing them too.

I love you guys its all good fun, and the killboard shows it with an pretty even split! Good hunting. YARRRR!!





Not Blobbing? lol

and it is all good fun!!

SajuurCor
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.22 01:34:00 - [51]
 

Kybear I'm gonna come get you.

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.10.22 05:54:00 - [52]
 

Sorry no naps, no blues. "kill you last" is the best I can do ^_^

Kyguard
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.22 08:47:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: SajuurCor
Kybear I'm gonna come get you.


I always knew deep down you loved me ugh

Trellish
Amarr
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.10.23 07:36:00 - [54]
 

TBH, I don't really care about values on killboards. Granted HF uses quite low values for their kills while TRS has tried to be a bit closer to market value (though with still some missing values).... tbh though, it's an absolute nightmare trying to stay on top of that kind of thing and who really wants to spend their game time making sure those values are updated? I know we've killed some faction fit ships with mods that went through at a couple hundred k value.... Really though, who gives a flying flip? As long as the killboard is consistent... not valuing kills of a ship higher than losses of the same ship, and any changes made to values affect both sides, then it's all good. It's not like Killboards are ever really accurate in the first place. There's too much ability to juggle numbers...

For example, Huzzahs 91% efficiency ratio on their war dec campaign posted at the top of their killboard, made by limiting the systems and dates from which kills are pulled. The real ratio for those dates where all systems are included, per the details on their killboard is 48% versus thorn and 43% versus TRS as of the time of this writing.

Don't misunderstand me... I'm not criticizing them posting 91% efficiency based off that data... It's a legit efficiency based off the criteria they set. It only shows how possible it is to make stats say just about anything. I'm sure HF could point to ways in which TRS has done similar things of which I'm unaware. My point is though, that all of us are (or should be) aware of how valuable stats from killboards actually are. Mostly, they are just records of participation and have very little other value.

There've been calls on both sides accusing of not posting kills. Let's just drop it. We're both API'ed in... it's gonna mostly be there. Yes API's arent perfect. I know TRS had a day or so where our API was down due to some web work, during which we were accused of not posting stuff... I'm sure there's been similar situations for HF.

I'm signing off and going back to pew pew... I suggest you do the same. YARRR! YARRRR!!


Adril Alatar
Minmatar
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:40:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Trellish
For example, Huzzahs 91% efficiency ratio on their war dec campaign posted at the top of their killboard, made by limiting the systems and dates from which kills are pulled. The real ratio for those dates where all systems are included, per the details on their killboard is 48% versus thorn and 43% versus TRS as of the time of this writing.



This campaigns only measures the performance of the empire wars against TRS and Thorn. So the campaign is accurate in what it should show => all kills in empire.

And you cant take single alliances from the other campaign and single out there efficiency in this campaign. You can only take the efficiency of the campaign, which is at 61% right now. The 43% and 48% is because we have losses were both alliances are on the killmail. That boosts the efficiency of both alliances but all together its only 1 loss for us, not 2 ;-)

The API (and the feed syndication mod) are only a tool to see if people dont post there losses (and kills). Our standing order is that everyone has to post every kill and loss (excluding losses to NPCs only Laughing). API isnt fool proof as there are sometimes losses not in the api although they happened. And losses reimbursed are in the API like the dread Yojimbow lost. But overall its a very very good tool, i remember back in our Catch days when i had to check all hostile and friendly killboards to find missing kills and losses and cross post them manually... that was a real pain in the ass ;-)

And to give a small update on the situation:
We have declared war on thorn alliance. It started on Tuesday evening and i heard the first few hours were a lot of fun. Thorn learned there lesson and last evening was very quiet.
Still some skirmishes in 0.0, hopefully there will be more action on the weekend.

The most important part: I have fun, lots of it. Thanks to TRS and Thorn for this ;-)

Olex Grant
Minmatar
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.10.23 12:11:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Olex Grant on 23/10/2008 15:56:39
Edited by: Olex Grant on 23/10/2008 12:15:20
Edited by: Olex Grant on 23/10/2008 12:11:44
Banging on about killboards is tiresome and I'm sure everyone reading this thread is rolling their eyes over it's continual appearance.

However, at the risk of boring everyone even more, and because our foes keep bringing it up, I'd like to make a point or two.

i. The killboard that we, Thorn and TRS use excludes module values in calculating efficiency.

ii. Faction Ships - someone mentioned our killboard undervaluing them, I assume you're referring to the Tempest Fleet Issue kill you made, to which our KB attributed a value of 340m (net of fittings and insurance payout remember). At the time I checked this value to contracts in Jita and found an average of value of 385.4M which makes our killboard’s valuation, net of insurance payout, somewhat high if anything.

Also remember that values are reflected on both kills and losses, meaning the net effect, efficiency-wise is probably negligible.

All this getting hung up on killboards is ridiculous, although (at the risk of getting flamed) my personal opinion is that some Red Skull members in particular (and the ones most vocal on the subject) have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the KBs work and how the stats they calculate are arrived at and what they mean (for example looking at Huzzah on their KB and thinking that the efficiency shown was theirs not ours).

In short, there is no attempt on our part to intentionally manipulate KB stats at all and if anyone has any problems with them, as I've previously stated, please contaact Adril or me directly in game rather than attempt to drag the issue into CAOD like so much dirty laundry to wave at us and the rest of Eve erroneously.

Can we move on now ?

Tiirae
Gallente
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:14:00 - [57]
 

What a terrible thread. Imagine actually being in one of these deadbeat alliances!

/wrists

Mortecai
Caldari
Wise Guys
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:43:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Mortecai on 23/10/2008 13:43:13
Rolling Eyes

Please, can you guys stop the kb whining. You guys really make yourself look like stat whoring carebears. It used to be that you guys actually wrote about interesting stuff and and not meta-gaming killboard "my stats are bigger than yours oh no they are not cause our ISK kills are bigger that yours cause we keep the prices correct" chestbeating. Find that old "you" again, it's hard to respect pilots that live in "killboard" mode, allies or not.

Edit: Olex in his last post mentioned all this already, but I think he was to subtle.

Guru
Caldari
Woopatang
Primary.
Posted - 2008.10.23 14:31:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Mortecai
Edited by: Mortecai on 23/10/2008 13:43:13
Rolling Eyes

Please, can you guys stop the kb whining. You guys really make yourself look like stat whoring carebears. It used to be that you guys actually wrote about interesting stuff and and not meta-gaming killboard "my stats are bigger than yours oh no they are not cause our ISK kills are bigger that yours cause we keep the prices correct" chestbeating. Find that old "you" again, it's hard to respect pilots that live in "killboard" mode, allies or not.

Edit: Olex in his last post mentioned all this already, but I think he was to subtle.


lol very true.. I could care less about a kb tbh personally.. In fact I think a kb is a tactical disadvantage.. but thats another debate... Shocked

More pew.. less talk. Some good random skirmishes over the last few days. YARRRR!!

Rajere
Gallente
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.10.23 19:22:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Rajere on 23/10/2008 19:25:30
You guys squabble over your respective kb stats here on CAOD, accuse one another of not posting losses, of "cherry picking" statistics to use for campaigns, etc and so forth, for what is ultimately a "who fails less" award.

HF boards shows they have 52.9% efficiency (10.2bil destroyed) vs TRS's 47.1% (9.1bil destroyed). TRS's kb claims HF has a 54.9% efficiency (15.7bil destroyed) vs TRS's 45.1% (12.9bil destroyed). Both of your campaigns began on the same day and have run for 43 days so far. You're obviously using different values, HF's is for isk loss after insurance, TRS is using jita market cost. Not that it really matters, cus both of your efficiencies are just god awful, you guys are fighting over not being last place in the special olympics race tbh.

While not precisely the same, the ship values between NOTR and HF's kbs are close enough that we can make general comparisions between the two of you and NOTR:

This #@#$ is B A N A N A S
Campaign represents our corps activity since we began reforming No Trademark and reunited in y9g on 10/19/08.

We've killed 75% as much isk as HF has killed of TRS since the start of the campaign, and we've killed 83% as much ISK as TRS has killed of HF since the start of the campaign. Both Campaigns are stats over the last 43 days. Except we did it in our first 3 1/2 days.

You are 300+ and 550+ man alliances respectively, and each part of 1k+ man nap-fest coalitions. We are 12 guys, with 15 characters total so far. At the time of this writing, we have a ~93.68% efficiency, and that includes doing things like suiciding t1 cruisers to fighter bomb CNR's in the middle of a 30man battleship fleets which are sieging someone else's POS, warping geddons in to hostile deathstars to tackle dreadnaught's, scouting with plated/trimarked battleships, tackling with falcons, and other such hilarious antics which aren't really advisable, yet we're somehow capable of winging on the fly, as we're completely disorganized collection of smack talking pirates and never plan further than the next kill. We kill everyone, and have no blues.

There. If you're going to smack each other over killboards, atleast have something worth smacking about.


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