open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked Average market price (Dr.EyjoG) ?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

A Ma
Posted - 2008.10.16 19:44:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: A Ma on 16/10/2008 19:53:32
Am I reading the average price wrong or does the average price displayed, when buying an item, also take the average buy price and volumes into account ?

Shouldn't the average price of an item only be calculated on the supply and not include the perceived demand ?

Or to put it another way, are "Buy Orders" taken into account when calculating the regional average price ?

Thanks for any insight you might have on this (especially Dr.EyjoG).

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:29:00 - [2]
 

I don't think we need to contact the doctor to answer this. The answer is yes, both buy and sell orders are taken into account to create the average price.

Actually I have no idea. Just find an item on market that has a minimal number of buy orders and a minimal number of sell orders, add them up and average them. Then see what the "sell item" box says about the item's price in relation to the average. If the average stated there is equal to what you calculated then yes, both buy and sell orders are considered when figuring the average.

Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2008.10.16 20:38:00 - [3]
 

The buy orders do get included in the average calculation. Not sure why, though.

Olga Mokroff
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:22:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Jana Clant
The buy orders do get included in the average calculation. Not sure why, though.


Because items are sold to buy order and sold from sell orders?

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.10.16 21:59:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Olga Mokroff
Originally by: Jana Clant
The buy orders do get included in the average calculation. Not sure why, though.


Because items are sold to buy order and sold from sell orders?


FATALITY!

to the op: the average price is functionally useless. they really should have it set up as showing "average actual sale price", "average sell order price", "average buy order price", and "average actual buy price"

A Ma
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:02:00 - [6]
 

Thanks, I thought that that was going on.

It seems pretty strange IMO.

If I were to put an advertisement in the local news paper for 1000 new Ferraris and say that I was willing to pay $1 each, do you think that that would effect the average price, maybe push it down a bit ?

I think not but it would be nice to see it happen Cool

Shadarle
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:20:00 - [7]
 

Unfilled buy orders have 0 effect on avg price. Unfilled sell orders also have 0 effect on avg price.

When anyone buys or sells anything that price is recorded. This is then averaged across an entire day. Avg price. Simple. Why do people try to complicate this?

Amarr Citizen 10864
Posted - 2008.10.17 15:27:00 - [8]
 

Buy orders are taken into account for the regional average quarterly.

And by quarterly, I mean annually.

Do not question economics. They are beyond you.

Demtalin le'Mercennaire
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:18:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Demtalin le''Mercennaire on 18/10/2008 11:19:44
Originally by: Shadarle
Unfilled buy orders have 0 effect on avg price. Unfilled sell orders also have 0 effect on avg price.

When anyone buys or sells anything that price is recorded. This is then averaged across an entire day.


This is how I thought it worked but I haven't done any tests/checkes to prove it.

Originally by: Dr Eyjolfur
Buy orders are taken into account for the regional average quarterly.

And by quarterly, I mean annually.

Do not question economics. They are beyond you.


Win.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.18 12:09:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Demtalin le'Mercennaire
This is how I thought it worked but I haven't done any tests/checkes to prove it.
I have, extensively. The key mental concept here is to not think "buy" or "sell" but just the simple "transaction".

All transactions, regardless of nature, are recorded. Volume, price, date. Very very simple, easy to track. Can be misleading and can be manipulated.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.10.20 09:53:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Demtalin le'Mercennaire
This is how I thought it worked but I haven't done any tests/checkes to prove it.
I have, extensively. The key mental concept here is to not think "buy" or "sell" but just the simple "transaction".

All transactions, regardless of nature, are recorded. Volume, price, date. Very very simple, easy to track. Can be misleading and can be manipulated.



Yes. They can be manipulated, but EVE is cutting off topmost and lowest 5% when calculating it's graphs so perhaps same has been done when finding that 'average price'. Even if it is not done I doubt that anyone would have motivation AND funds to manipulate prices in EVE on the scale that it would start actually move those averages used in that devblog. If they do then it would mean they have actually moved market (or at very least spent nice amount of billions in transaction taxses selling stuff to their alts)

Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
Posted - 2008.10.20 13:31:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
EVE is cutting off [the] topmost and lowest 5% when calculating [its] graphs so perhaps same has been done when finding that 'average price'.

This is 5% of transactions? Is that weighted by volume?
How do you know that the cut off is 5%?

Kazzac Elentria
Posted - 2008.10.20 13:37:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Amarr Citizen 10864

Do not question economics. They are beyond you.


Just seemed appropriate for the situation

/ignore me!

Jethro Jechonias
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2008.10.20 15:36:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Rho'varo
Originally by: Carniflex
EVE is cutting off [the] topmost and lowest 5% when calculating [its] graphs so perhaps same has been done when finding that 'average price'.

This is 5% of transactions? Is that weighted by volume?
How do you know that the cut off is 5%?

It is cutting off more than 5%.

Or atleast it did the one time that I watched for it.

I sold a commodity for ~400k. The reported highest traded value was ~350k. Looking at both the volume and the number of transactions, my sales at ~400k accounted for more than 5% of that day's volume and transactions.

I would concider that data as unreliable at best: just use it for a rough guide, but not a real measure of what the market is doing.

Shadarle
Posted - 2008.10.20 16:04:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Rho'varo
Originally by: Carniflex
EVE is cutting off [the] topmost and lowest 5% when calculating [its] graphs so perhaps same has been done when finding that 'average price'.

This is 5% of transactions? Is that weighted by volume?
How do you know that the cut off is 5%?



He doesn't, he's guessing. As far as I know no one actually knows the actual method used to pick "outliers" that CCP uses. 5% is a guess, but it is more likely done by a multiplier of STD.

Blake Rathen
Caldari
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:19:00 - [16]
 

I too would appreciate a clear definition of this quantity from CCP. But, I have to admit that the trends sheet points to a 'transaction average' price.

The really useful improvement that CCP could make is to allow export of market transactions history, and/or market average history. Or is this already possible?

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2008.10.29 18:40:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: K''uata Sayus on 29/10/2008 18:44:53
Looked at low and high sell price stats for a particular item, someone had paid 1M for a module usually selling for 20K. The average sell price skyrocketed, and the "normal" sell price was 85% or so below average.

Buy orders skew the average price also, as mission runners will dump modules at 500Isk per when the local market hub has them for 15K.

Some sell orders are deliberately exhorbitant, to take advantage of an occasional scarcity of a particular item.
All too often I have priced my item just below one of these ridiculously high prices, only to find it doesn't move at all.

I check the average low and high sell column to get a better feel for what a more realistic price is.



 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only