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Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Chirinako
I'm now beginning to realise why Iceland is bankrupt.


Laughing.

C.


Maria Huana
Caldari
Pact Of Honour
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:19:00 - [242]
 

hey CCP. I`m idiot,so can i become ur database developer?Very Happy

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: BlackDeej
Originally by: Sanadis
That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.

Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48
I say good riddens to ghost training.

Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training.
I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it.
It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.

----------EDIT----------
BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!
CCP Lies

You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now.
Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!

Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it Shocked


Quoted. And btw CCP deleting peoples posts is NOT gonna make this go away !!!


Streisand effect detected...


Want to bet this hits slashdot within 40 hours?

Nina Korgan
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:04:27
Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 14/10/2008 00:01:11
Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature


No it wasn't.

Quote:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive


You contradict your own knowledge base. Pure hypocrisy.

In the blog, you try to justify this by talking about bug fixing, game balance issues and database issues across the space of a few paragraphs.

Do you even know yourselves why you're doing this? Will you be removing all other "offline" activities? POS work, manufacturing, RP generation, market orders the list goes on.

-3 accounts. Purely for lying to us, you shameless money grabbing corporate *****s.


QFT. -3 accounts here too.

I was holding off on ghost training so that I could play the game and then take a month or two off and focus on work/school, then come back to some cool new stuff. I now know that I'm not going to make it to a Guardian on my support account, or a Paladin on my ratting account, or T2 larges on my main account, without paying a huge stack of cash to get there. (On TOP OF the $785 I've paid in subscription fees so far!)

The only depressing part of this is, even if the number of lost accounts is high enough to make this a losing proposition for CCP (which I'm sure it will be), they'll never put it back in because their pride wouldn't let them. I can just hope the proposal gets scrapped before it goes in.

I know for sure that I'm ****ing out if this goes in and I'm staying out as long as it is in, because EVE already isn't worth the nearly $800 I've spent on it since I started playing; I'm sure as hell not paying more just to get skills.

Vasili Z
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:20:00 - [245]
 

Sounds fine to me.

Wansadicus
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 - [246]
 

Edited by: Wansadicus on 14/10/2008 00:21:41
I personally have used this only two times, but as a Businessman, i see this clearly as a Bad Move!

Think again, lots of people need to stop playing for vacations or other reasons, sometimes they stay months away, and now they will think twice before reactivating, since "nothing" has changed in their characters while they where away from the game.

This was one of the "unique" features of Eve Online. and now... Shocked






Cueball Mcfuzz
The Kharon Syndicate
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 - [247]
 

Looks like 3 posts have been deleted off the first page alone, and I've been reading since the beginning. Nothing particularly insulting or against the EULA.

Typical! Think back to T20 and every other time CCP has screwed the pooch- frantic deleting that always descends into having to deal with the issue. Why not just deal with the issue now?

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

Want to bet this hits slashdot within 40 hours?


Honestly I hope it doesn't.
It would only make things worse for Eve in general tbh.

Poking CCP in here is one thing, but *out there*?

~shudders~

BDC Secretary
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 - [249]
 

Epic Fail.

Rramar Claime
Amarr
Knights of Kador
The Black Armada
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 - [250]
 

Pretty obvious the only reason for this stupidity is that someone in a high chair shouted for more money. Where can you get more money? Oh there are a lot of alts not paying. These guys are stupid anyway, lets harvest some isk from inactive skill training, then the stupid 5 year old boys will go shouting to their daddy that they cant finish carrier 5, so they will pay for the alt to be active whatever the cost is. This is how it goes with eve users right?
Brilliant idea, CCP is so poor it actually does have the moral capital to **** off its own users and turn it into money.

Absolutely no other reason, and since youre doing things like this to your! community you can expect just as much from us.


BoroDracula
4 wing
Dara Cothrom
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:22:00 - [251]
 

How come we have had no Dev speak of the player eve guide. Surely this is a blog they should be actively contributing too.

Balcura
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:23:00 - [252]
 

I normally have no issues with a great deal of the changes as I have been around for a lot of them (3 years of continual play). I always have 1 or 2 account active at a time with a total of 5 account as I can't afford to keep all 5 active at any given time...

Looks like I will be consolidating my accounts (you'll see the immediate income) and then let 3 of the accounts completely die... This is a Hugh mistake on your part, you can make any changes you wish... but if you keep pushing the player base around with obvious BS that you posted you will pay for it.

I played SWG for about 3 years before I jumped into eve. I enjoy long term games, but as a company makes mistakes in creating something I am unwilling to play I will change games based on how the company treats its players...

Please keep in mind you have caused issues with GTC changes and with this change you will **** off more people (including myself). Don't try and pass that BS off on us, insulting our intelligence and expect us to just be fine with it.


Mika Katon
Gallente
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:23:00 - [253]
 

Hell, if the problem is people unsubscribing for 30day skills, why not assign a dollar value to each day of skill training, and let people buy their level 5 skills with cash?

This whole proposal is about making people pay money to train skills, regardless of whether or not they play the game while they train. So just cut straight to the point and sell us X days of training for $X dollars.

Same godd amn result without all the bull****.

GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:24:00 - [254]
 

I think when your damage control posts get more angry trolling than the original thread you have to ask yourselves whether you're doing the right thing Neutral

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:24:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Biosman
Quote:
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.

The avalanche is definately gonna hit you ccp,wrecking for damage to your credibility now everyone can see that it is indeed part of a unique "feature" hence the RP gains earning isk.You do not have a leg to stand on and the only way to redeem yourselves is to backpedal on this unpopular idea pretty sharpish.

Tbh,I would have respected you more if you just said "Dear Eve users,ccp is having some difficulties atm with the global money crisis and unfortunately we need to raise the price a little,maybe for just a short period,to be able to bring you the service you deserve for all your years of loyalty"



This. They haven't raised the price in 5 years. Saying, OK, well **** happens, costs have gone up and we need an extra buck a month from you all to make stuff carry on working, then fine. I'd have just paid. There would have been a few grumbles, but what the hell - boxed single player games have gone up by rather more than this over the same period.

But flat out lying to us and then contradicting themselves with another lie...


...where's the respect, CCP?

When G.I.s shot themselves in the foot, it wasn't called a "million dollar wound" because they got a million dollars. I feel bad no-one explained this to you.

Mael Duakal
Gallente
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:25:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Mael Duakal on 14/10/2008 00:27:10
Lieing is bad CCP... your mothers should have told you so...

Denuo Secus
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:26:00 - [257]
 

Omg, I just don't get it!

So much rage about this change? I pay for this game. Point. And offline skilling is part of the game.

Some people complain that they can't longer pay effectively one and a half account and evolve three or four chars for that money?! Forming a char is playing EVE imho.

And to call CCP greedy is really uncool. I know MMOs where you have to pay for every expansion! CCP spent 50 man-years in Trinity I heard? Did anyone pay an extra fee for that? Only one example...

CowsCANBark
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:26:00 - [258]
 

by the way when the value of iceland dollar decreases and they get a majority of their money in USD/ euro they should be doing much better than before.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:27:00 - [259]
 

Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 14/10/2008 00:28:15

Great work CCP!!! I have been waiting for this a long time!

I never understood why you people let who did not pay the game to earn skillpoints, which I had to pay 15 dollar for! So this is a very good move!


Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:27:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Jinx Barker on 14/10/2008 00:27:00
Originally by: Torfi Frans Olafsson
As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.

It should be noted that we're not changing offline skill training for active subscribers in any way. This change only affects those who do not have an active subscription.

Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives. But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better.

Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.

Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.

We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:

There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.

Torfi Frans Olafsson

Senior Producer of EVE Online


I have underlined the only sensible thing said. Basically you choose to ignore the "trend" for years, a few years back you even backed off when community went crazy, and now during an economic hardship for many of your players you slapping it on.

Guess what, the reason why you noticed a surge is because most people can not afford the subs on multiple accounts - which you CCP encouraged for years and years - you know that 30 Dollars a month would pay for 3 months of local phone service in most parts of the USA.

So, then discourage multi-accounting! Nice of you to do it shortly after you got bunch of suckers to sign up for the P^2 accounts before you announced that gem.

I have been saying this for a long time, ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to ****.


Majuan Shuo
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:27:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 14/10/2008 00:39:29
My account ends in 4 days. I have recently changed my mind on renewing it in the future. I will not be doing so, it's off to Warhammer for me.

THAT being said, while I suspect CCP has just been caught in a bold faced lie, its entirely possible that the producer was just ill-informed. Because lets be honest, when do producers know a damned thing about the product in question? He may have very well thought it to be a bug when in fact it wasn't (as shown in the PLAYER GUIDE). However, it most CERTAINLY not a bug, it was a one of the features that attracted me to the game.

CCP, I really hope you guys don't think of your customers as idiots (as blizzard does); you all REALLY need to sit down and discuss this issue with one another.

* Based on the responses, do you really think the majority of the players see Ghost Training as unfair?

* Do you really REALLY think this will earn you more money in the long run? We are looking at a possible global financial crisis, which is a major factor in the canceling of accounts. Now if you take away a feature that was designed to bring people BACK, whats going to happen when the market fully rebounds?

* In the event you take the advise of your market base, do NOT half ass the change and put some penalty on the ghost training like some have said. You do not give a freedom, take it away, and only give half back. This will not SOLVE any but a MARGINAL amount of the dissent that has just been sown.

* Simply put: If you want to maintain the strongest possible player base regarding this announcment, just say you made a mistake, appologize, and do not change A THING.

"If it isn't broke, don't fix it."

Gut Punch
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 - [262]
 

This is the same type of logic that CCP uses when they look at the speed nerf. Lets throw out the past and just do whatever now even though we established a system. Well screw you CCP. You definately can go down this road but the question is do you think you will be around post this and the nerf? Or do you prefer operating at the level of SWG?

Danny Centurai
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 - [263]
 

So everyone who cancelled an EVE account is getting a Jumpgate Evolution account on day of release, ammirite :D.

I personally will no longer maintain all the accounts I do dropping it down, CCP fixed their 5 yo bug but nerfed their income.

'CCP hits self wrecking omg wtf pwnt damage'

Col Carter
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 - [264]
 

Seriously heavy moderation in progress it seems.

Kim Wilde
Gallente
Covenant
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:28:00 - [265]
 

while needed to be removed for financiall reasons.............
this feature of the game was one way of taking a vacation or a break while not loosing out, so introduce a skill queue so we know we wont be paying for a idle account while on vacation and id be happy

Yakumo Smith
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Biosman
Quote:
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.

The avalanche is definately gonna hit you ccp,wrecking for damage to your credibility now everyone can see that it is indeed part of a unique "feature" hence the RP gains earning isk.You do not have a leg to stand on and the only way to redeem yourselves is to backpedal on this unpopular idea pretty sharpish.

Tbh,I would have respected you more if you just said "Dear Eve users,ccp is having some difficulties atm with the global money crisis and unfortunately we need to raise the price a little,maybe for just a short period,to be able to bring you the service you deserve for all your years of loyalty"



This. They haven't raised the price in 5 years. Saying, OK, well **** happens, costs have gone up and we need an extra buck a month from you all to make stuff carry on working, then fine. I'd have just paid. There would have been a few grumbles, but what the hell - boxed single player games have gone up by rather more than this over the same period.

But flat out lying to us and then contradicting themselves with another lie...


...where's the respect, CCP?

When G.I.s shot themselves in the foot, it wasn't called a "million dollar wound" because they got a million dollars. I feel bad no-one explained this to you.


Again, agreed. Being honest from the start would have gotten you posts from people starting alt accounts to help you...instead you forced it the other way by lying.

I'm waiting for the "It's all a misunderstanding" blog to come out tomorrow...unfortunately the damage has been done and it'll take a lot more than appologies to repair that.

ZeroGasam
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 - [267]
 

Back to guild wars...

Please reconsider this CCP




Duvaren
Amarr
The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 - [268]
 

Edited by: Duvaren on 14/10/2008 00:32:10
Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS
CMON CCP GIVE US ONE STRAIGTH ANSWER!!! OH WAIT YOU DID IT AND FAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIILLLLLLLL


I THING SOME PPL GONA GET FIRED.. and is not becouse of your lies is becouse you have a lot of angry customers who quit and you need to pay the bills..



/signed

I have cancelled ONE account. My ONLY account.

I quit for a year before when I had a bug where my cap readout showed I had more cap than I actually had. (Desync) It took them three months to fix it and they send me an email. (After I'd had my account deactivated for 2.5 months.)

Then after a year I decided to return and found my wallet at -10mil ISK.

CCP's customer service is fail.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:29:00 - [269]
 

Aaahahahaha now you are just lying about it.

This is going to mean less money for you, and it will be funny when you find that out and reverse this.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:30:00 - [270]
 

Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 14/10/2008 00:30:07
feel free to transfer chars with 20+ mill sp from accounts you wont keep running to one of my accountsLaughing

never actually used the feature, and i can see why ccp does this.
but the way they are doing it is completly wrong, but if they go through with this they should stop all market orders and rp gains on inactive accounts as well.


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