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Chestnut Stallion
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:10:00 - [211]
 

3 accounts allread, Mine, my Wife's and my Alt, I was considering getting a power of two thing, last week to start up another account so I could train another one, then let it lapse, and just rotate all 4 accounts and stuff


THANK GOD I DIDN'T GET ANOTHER ACCOUNT. now that I can't train for 6 months then let it lapse for one or so month...

damn saved myself 49 bucks there,
oh thats still -3 and +1 makes 4.

All my stuff is allready given to the corpmates dont ask for it.

Chalrynn Illyndar
Navy of Xoc
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:11:00 - [212]
 

Research points should be disabled aswell then since they can be farmed up on inactive accounts. Market orders and contracts should also be removed since they can be used to further a character while an account is inactive.

Zinnn
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:11:00 - [213]
 

Why not just add queue-skill training as an option for subscribed people (say max 3 skills in queue), and then for people who have expired accounts, it only finishes the current skill? Seriously I think this is a better idea. Think about this. You make people happy, people still get their skills, and those skills are used to shoot people. What do people do? they buy isk - legally or illegally. Consider that half of these people that buy isk buy it legitimately (and at this point there's no real incentive to try to cheat the system). Now consider the price of timecards. That means extra income and actually less shadow accounts. Maybe you should get your economist back into the game and pay attention to these eventualities. But I"m sure my comments will be lost in the torrent of angry posters... Hope this gets through.. THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE. CCP PLEASE CONSIDER THIS IDEA AS A FEATURE AND NOT A NERF. IT STILL PROVIDES INCENTIVES TO PEOPLE TO CONTINUE USING THEIR ACCOUNTS AND USE LESS TIME.

Aganola
Amarr
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:11:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Idara
New sig pimpage.

SHC 4tw.

Also: way to lock the other thread. Rolling Eyes
geez it's my image!! cool!

Sanadis
Gallente
Sphere Industries
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:12:00 - [215]
 

That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.

Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48
I say good riddens to ghost training.

Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training.
I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it.
It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.

----------EDIT----------
BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!

link

You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now.
Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!

Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it Shocked

Fred Ayurveda
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:13:00 - [216]
 

So what I'm wondering is, are these dunderheads CCP alts, or are they not reading the player guide where it says that it's a feature (and CCP is lying) and NOT a bug?

Rramar Claime
Amarr
Knights of Kador
The Black Armada
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:13:00 - [217]
 

CCP you epicly fail with this stupid idea . All you did is anger your community AGAIN and pretty much saved your wallet from a lot of accounts reactivating. You fail you fail you fail and i just fu**n don't understand why you guys up in the north dont have at least as much common sense to realise how many accounts you lost with this...
WE did not get ganked by inactive alt blobs, WE did not get lag from inactive alts they did not scam anyone and they were not exploiting any unallowed features! The quotes like wth ccp was sold to SOE or EA perfectly describe what youre doing lately and what your future will be. Sure 1 year with 200,000 subscribers but only as long as youre in a monopol position with no other similar space mmos around. Absolutely no reason for this change, only bla bla from your own devs who can't explain it themselves. You are continously ruining the ideas that made this game so good.

If you continue with stupid decisions like this without setting PROPER priorities finally, you will end up just as SOE did at the second you get any competition on this market segment. People playing eve are not 8yr old wow players, you cannot do this sh*t to them for too long...


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:13:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Idara
New sig pimpage.

SHC 4tw.

Also: way to lock the other thread. Rolling Eyes
geez it's my image!! cool!


Unfortunately it is too big and breaks the forum rules.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:14:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: ZW Dewitt
Originally by: Dev Blog
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.


Yet you don't notice the huge avalance of ISK sellers with random names who are CONSTANTLY making new trial accounts to spam their ads?

IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:14:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: torfi

We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.



NO


because you (ccp) is lieing to our faces with a smile
enjoy 1 less alt subscription Wink

Supay
Caldari
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:14:00 - [221]
 

So, you'll be banning sale of GTCs for isk from now on, I assume?

As you have stated that:

Quote:
That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.

Some corporate rubbish

Quote:
This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.

First Dev post

The balance of the game is upset by people using their real life cash to buy GTCs and sell them ingame for isk. They do NOT actively put their time and energy into working on their characters and I am unfairly affected because I do not make use of this.

FireAnt
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 - [222]
 

I dont really have a problem with it other than they say it was a bug. Dont lie to us. One thing that might have been overlooked is alot more people would play this game if you took the money that you made and added better content and fixed LAG!!! Good thing people will be quiting over this as the server cannot handle the light load it has now with ghost accounts. In a weak economy you dont punish your income providers, you make you make the product you have better. This hurts your income provider and doesnt really make your product better.

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 14/10/2008 00:07:37
Originally by: Avon
Actually, he is right tbh.
Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?


I was flaming him for the first reason, see my post above. I'm all for removing passive RP gain. To summarize my expoert position: FUK DIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Oh, fairy snuff.

Personally I am happy for inactive to mean exactly that.
I just think CCP are doing a terrible job of selling it.


I'm secretly all for this (five years ago, and) because it no longer affects me but HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT talk about trying to pull a fast one with balatant lies. Apparently they don't mind shafting thousands of players who aren't going to see this in 48 hours, but they pull the "we need three years to consider this gameplay change and its effect on the playerbase" card whenever they have tough decisions to make. They also justify a lot of stupid changes that make EVE softer for the sake of the casual players, but all this does is make skill training less casual, proving that casual players can suck it just as hard when there's money involved words words angeranger

Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 - [224]
 

Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 14/10/2008 00:16:32
Quote:

You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now.
Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!
Fact is it's not said it's a bug or a feature.

When I develop software, if I don't tell users "If you click this button, then resize the page it upfks the UI" I get barraged with emails saying "Hey, did you know if you do this, it messes things up".

So when I inform them in the software documentation "If you do this, it causes a UI glitch" it's not a 'feature'.

It's what's called a 'known' bug. If CCP didn't have that there they'd probably have a bunch of idiots going "Hey, CCP is hiding the fact they make you pay money for skill training time when you don't have to!"

Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 - [225]
 

Doubt you'll see this in all the spam, but how exactly does this work? Could you please give an example of a character who's training Battleship 5 for another 30 days and his subscription will expire in 10 days?

And another example with a character whose subscription has already expired, 5 days ago?

chotaire
Caldari
The Rising Stars
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 - [226]
 

Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:

Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.

But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:

Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.

We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.

Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.

Best Regards
CCP whoever


If you guys had come up with something similar than this, I would not only have said "thumbs up", I would also have resubscribed my currently ghost training alts weeks before they be finished with their skills in order to support your company. The way you enforce this change is so untrustworthy and short-planned, that I can only say, epic fail.

Regarding your dev blog, I have some more stuff to add aswell. Let's go into theory. We do have an evil person who does nothing else than ghost training for a whole year. Especially during the first years, there are probably no skills that take much longer than 50 days. So theoretically, instead of paying 6 subscriptions, someone does only pay 4 subscriptions the first year. During the inactive period of those subscriptions, the database entry does not see much change except of a timer script adding skillpoints to a single skill (and single character). Are you telling me that 4 out of 6 subscriptions are not worth calculating and changing one database entry during inactive times? I believe each and every datacenter out there with a DB cluster would happily receive such subscription fees for regularly committing such a simple function - and while talking about that, why not committing this function only ONCE - when the account gets reactivated? That means, inactive subscriptions will skill appropiately, just that API doesnt show the progress while the account is inactive. Wow, one db update per paying customer, no matter how long they skill, that's a damn huge DB load and ffs am I getting ironic? Then again this is all bullsh*t, because there is way more updates to the DB while someone is inactive. Say market skills change while someone is selling items while being inactive, or the corporation of the ghost trainer in question changes the alliance, contracts get finished, items sold, insurances expiring etc..etc... That's a damn huge load of db updates for offline people. So much more than skill updates. How come this is not a problem? I see incredible epic fail in this announcement!! Skills (if db functions get optimized for inactive subscriptions) can't have as much of an impact to the db like any other offline action. We are obviously being fooled, database programmers speak out loud!

CCP says that inactive customers still need to be supported. Are we talking inactive customers who pay 2-5 of 6 possible subscriptions? Would these customers exist if there was no ghost training? Recalculate, something is wrong here.

Last but not least, the "bug" you have been referring to is not a bug, it is a feature, as found in the player guide.

I feel betrayed.
chotaire

Novantco
The Tuskers
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 - [227]
 

Funny how CCP has just been running "The power of 2" promotion, which ended only days ago. So quite a few people including my self probably got another account. They then just days afterwards announce this, funny timing eh?

But you have to make money you're a business after all. So steps must be taken to insure that which is more then fair enough. Except you already force people to buy a second account for any sort of alt that you wish to train properly otherwise you gimp your main. You then go and do this making people pay EVEN more money! I mean come on CCP thatís just plain greedy, you barely gave any warning of this and are now expecting the bucks to come rolling in when people reactivate accounts.

But I doubt that will happen and you probably end up with more of a loss in revenue then a gain. So then what up the sub fees? I'm glad I didn't get more then one other account so this doesn't really affect me at the moment. But it sure is a kick in the face to people with multiple accounts.

Oh and lmfao at what it say's in the player guide as Avon tracked down. Is this the person who is charge of these big decisions? I think so!


Originally by: Avon
Hey, your bug...

Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive

I found it in the player guide.

You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:15:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Sanadis
That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.

Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48
I say good riddens to ghost training.

Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training.
I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it.
It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.

----------EDIT----------
BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!

link

You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now.
Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!

Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it Shocked

BlackDeej
Aquila Astralis
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Sanadis
That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.

Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48
I say good riddens to ghost training.

Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training.
I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it.
It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.

----------EDIT----------
BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!
CCP Lies

You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now.
Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!

Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it Shocked


Quoted. And btw CCP deleting peoples posts is NOT gonna make this go away !!!

Jaxxon Voers
The Scope
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 - [230]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Saraah Leeown
Great stuff, I play eve online, not "unsubscribed skill training online"
Please make sure all RP etc is stopped on an unsubscribed account to thanks.

Bye bye deadwood Very Happy


End yourself.

Preferably via: ingested bleach, starving tiger sharks, sex with madeline albright.





Albright? You sick, twisted monster.

Harik A'ttar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 - [231]
 

I still think skill training is way too easy. We shouldn't just "train" by clicking a skill and waiting. I'm sure others agree - you should earn skillpoints by blowing up rats or running missions.

It's such a worthless feature and that's why no other online game does it. The only "special snowflake" here is EVE.

In serious news, allow me to thank you. When my account lapses I'll have a lot less reason to renew. No new ship to fly when I get back, no T2 weapons, nothing exciting and new. My last few resubs were due to "hey I wonder if HACs are fun." and "Cool I can go for capitals now."

Oh, and it's one less way for me to entice people to play, too. "Hey, if you get bored of the game, train towards something that looks fun and come back in a few months." Which probably means less of my friends will come back... which is even less reason to resub.

I mean, it's not like you didn't see this coming. I remember when you implemented this idiocy on the Chinese server and had to post a devblog explaining that it did NOT affect Tranquility.

P.S. thanks for the post saying "CCP Database developers are complete idiots." because if you implemented skill training as any kind of active process that takes any resources at all, well... That takes a really Special Snowflake of it's own.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:16:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Chirinako
I'm now beginning to realise why Iceland is bankrupt.
Laughing

Terastra
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:17:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Terastra on 14/10/2008 00:17:51
Quote:
Actually, he is right tbh. Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?


no real in game reason but from a purely business model for ccp they will find out this is a huge gaff.

there were always limits to how ghost training works that made it so that this type of training always forced you to resub in no longer than 60 days (certainly exceptions like carrier 5 exist etc) but usually much sooner. otherwise ghost "surfing" would lose its benefit. ccp was going to get their cash, maybe not as regularly as every 30 days but they could still depend on more from these accounts.

now people who surf for monetary reasons including those who just can't see justifying a 2nd, 3rd or 4th+ account at $15 every single month but who like the benefit of picking and choosing will have no option but to kill the accounts.

with ccp's very own words saying the trend has taken off recently this tells me that those accounts that are doing this that would pay in the next month or two will likely now become zero sum accounts.

essentially ccp just killed two types of account holders which i suspect make up a rather large chunk of their business. those who really just can't afford to pay every month and those with multiple accounts who can't justify it every month. the later will be where they feel the most pain.

oh well, i was planning on a few month break to get refreshed but this turns that into a, no point in coming back with the 30-60 days of training i will lose.


Kwa Kaine
eXceed Inc.
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:17:00 - [234]
 

Typical CCP tbh.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 - [235]
 

Doesn't bother me at all, but please remove datacore farming from inactive accounts as well.

Col Carter
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Letouk Mernel
Doubt you'll see this in all the spam, but how exactly does this work? Could you please give an example of a character who's training Battleship 5 for another 30 days and his subscription will expire in 10 days?

And another example with a character whose subscription has already expired, 5 days ago?


Well, it'll keep training till the moment the account expires. In your case, it will train BS 5 for another 10 days, all this starts wednesday, so add 2 days. 10 days after wednesday it stops.

Mirida
Meltd0wn
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 - [237]
 

Torfi, i'm pretty sure you are actually a nice guy but this devblog is just the same bull**** cooked up once again.

Removing one of the features that make EVE unique (and me paying again (Skill finished, i pay to setup a new one) although i'm not even playing currently) is not going to draw me back to playing EVE and having a full-time subscription.

I again suggest to reconsider this and punishing the one who pushed such a change in this manner and so fast (Firing isn't really an option as i trust in people beeing able to learn from mistakes).

Sanadis
Gallente
Sphere Industries
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Sanadis
That's right CCP, show your real colors, keep deleting our posts that display the truth.

Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 23:59:48
I say good riddens to ghost training.

Even if this was promoted as a feature, it really is not a good one to the people who pay for the same thing someone else is getting while ghost training.
I always keep my accounts active, no matter what. Losing a little skill training here and there is fine, but I actually PLAY the game while paying for it.
It is only fair that ghost training is removed, because you should not get something that you are not paying for.

----------EDIT----------
BUT what is not fair is that you are lieing to us CCP, and I am disappointed!

link

You have been promoting this "Bug" as a "Feature" up until now.
Tell us the real reason behind its removal CCP!

Come on, someone quote me on this and see if they delete it Shocked



CCP, stop tring to hide the truth from everybody by deleting our posts, you are way overstepping this!

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 - [239]
 

Facts:
1) I won't subscribe just for skilling time. Especially if i can't influence it and you set the skilltime. If i would, we may have BS5 up to 60 days in some time.
2) I will not pay for a second (or 3rd, 4th) account to experience all aspects of the game. Especially not, if all other MMOs don't require multiple accounts to do that. IN fact, i'll cancel my second account.
3) You are taking away possitive aspects of eve and not adding a single new one

1 = no profit to make here in my case
2 = pure loss
3 = from your point of view, a loss of your products attractiveness as well

You call it if this is a clever move. Don't get me wrong on this. I don't have a particular problem with the removal of ghost training. But i highly doubt that this change will benefit anybody.

PS: As others stated allready, it was nice to set a long skill while having RL reasons (or whatever) and then return to the game. I always reactivated my account to see my new toy, even if i got bored before. May sounds weird as eve is so great. Never the less, it actually happend to me twice.

Biosman
Caldari
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:18:00 - [240]
 

Edited by: Biosman on 14/10/2008 00:20:45
Quote:
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.

The avalanche is definately gonna hit you ccp,wrecking for damage to your credibility now everyone can see that it was indeed part of a unique "feature" hence the RP gains earning isk.You do not have a leg to stand on and the only way to redeem yourselves is to backpedal on this unpopular idea pretty sharpish.

Tbh,I would have respected you more if you just said "Dear Eve users,ccp is having some difficulties atm with the global money crisis and unfortunately we need to raise the price a little,maybe for just a short period,to be able to bring you the service you deserve for all your years of loyalty"


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