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ignobil
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:22:00 - [2131]
 

if in the main eve page you click in the "ghost training remove" news and then in the dev blog, and again in the comments you will get here again. that´s how i find it..

Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:23:00 - [2132]
 

Hey look, people aren't talking about the nano nerf!

Sailon
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:23:00 - [2133]
 

Originally by: Gaskin Ravenwing
I am fine with and support this change.

I would ask that there is a "grace" time added on of 24 hours or so though

Reason being my subscription usually runs out overnight and i would hate to come back expecting my skill to have finished and find my expired subscription has put it back 12 hours or whatever

may have been mentioned already, if so, 1 vote bump to that post :)


are you dev alt or do you work at ccp?

yarrmarr
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:23:00 - [2134]
 

Thank god the playerguide has been modified so it now 'correctly' states that training won't continue anymore for inactive accounts.

CCP wtf are you doing? Didn't you learn anything from your previous f*ckups in the past few years?

BIind
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 - [2135]
 

Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 17:26:01
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur
what do you mean hidden? if you open www.eve-online.com press dev blog and then coments it is right there.


It wasn't for a while. Also it's missing in the threadlist of the forum where it's supposed to be (Information portal) for some reason.

Karma
Vortex Incorporated
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 - [2136]
 

CCPs removal of and supposed moderation of certain posts in this thread...
No, actually everything CCP has done on this matter so far rather reminds me of Amazon's removal of all the 1-star reviews of spore.

their credibility just went right out the window. it's all about the money.

LomaxSE
Rebel Inc
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 - [2137]
 

RABLE RABLE

Tara Yang
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:24:00 - [2138]
 

To do list

-Remove bad info from player guide
-Close Account details so people can't cancel subscription and blame billing company
-Delete post in thread that do not comply with our view
-Hide thread from players
Remove comments link from dev blog
Delete dev blog about subject
Delete any thread about subject
And cool like nothing happend and still remove ghost training

Rosur
Gallente
Heroes.
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:25:00 - [2139]
 

Dont get rid of it.
Dosnt really affect me as i normaly have my account active when tranning anyway.
If it stops a week/2 weeks after the account runs out that would sill be better than no ghost tranning.

Ridickulo
Minmatar
Tiger-Shrimp
Sons of EvE Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:26:00 - [2140]
 

I was just having a thought on why did the ghost training increase...

Let me see, if i have two accounts and use ghost training i get two characters with a years training for the price of one.

A year training would be about 10 to 15 mil sp and those sell for about 2 to 3 mil isk.

So i sell one of my accounts and buy myself a years worth of gametime in GTCs.

Then i realise the obvious...What if all of a sudden a major chunk of players realised this and started doing it?

Ares Aurora
Caldari
Beyond Ascension
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:27:00 - [2141]
 

I found this thread with very little problems after reading about the change of inactive accounts skilling.

I do hope that now they have done this they can address the current ETC price hike problem, I can see this making it only worse as a mass of players will now be trying to get an ETC to startup the skilling now they cannot 'ghost train'.

I can guess the 30D ETC was used for this purpose so whey they removed, hiding the real reasons of the 30D ETC removal by also removing the 90D ETC and replacing with a solo 60D ETC.

At least they now got 2 months of subs for each 'ghost train' attempt insteatd of 1 month when 30D was available.

Now peeps cannot 'ghost train' can we please have a better and more wider choice of ETC made available to allow for more convenient and affordable skilling for people who now have to pay to skill!!!

I do hope this is read but I fear it will not.

Love


St Claus
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:27:00 - [2142]
 

Originally by: Annaphera
"Rights"? What "rights"?

Probaply not right word, but removing features and thus making game more expensive != good thing. And you really cant expect your customers to like it.

Originally by: Annaphera
As someone else pointed out, if CCP really didn't care, why would they bother offering people discounts? Power of 2, discounts for paying for more months at once, and so on?

You really think that CCP gives Power of 2 discounts becouse they like us, their customers?

Originally by: Annaphera

So look at your argument. You say it would have been okay if it had been like that from the start. By that rationale, they can remove 60% of the ships in game, and not a soul should complain...titans certainly weren't there "from the start". Also, the game wouldn't be half of what it is now, because many of the first features have been replaced by new and (arguably in some cases) improved versions, or scrapped all together as no longer workable. Features change in an MMO, any MMO. Get used to it, or stop playing MMO's.


I know my english is bad, but i dont belive it's that bad. I didn't say that it would be ok if they had placed that feature 2 years ago and now removing it. Also, removing titans don't make this game more expensive, if you have multiple accounts.

Kaesarr
Negros United
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:28:00 - [2143]
 

Edited by: Kaesarr on 14/10/2008 17:29:44
Yeha i read this post..

I cancel my 2 account :)

gl ccp

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:28:00 - [2144]
 

Originally by: Gaskin Ravenwing
I am fine with and support this change.

I would ask that there is a "grace" time added on of 24 hours or so though

Reason being my subscription usually runs out overnight and i would hate to come back expecting my skill to have finished and find my expired subscription has put it back 12 hours or whatever
They have already noted that there is a 3 day grace period.

WhisperSilk
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:29:00 - [2145]
 

Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:33:51
Edited by: Avon on 13/10/2008 23:22:50
I don't mind this change at all as my accounts have always been active, but...

..you'd better be real quick cleaning out the forums of historical CCP posts about this "feature" as it was, before you try to make out it is now a "bug".


Added from my later post:
Hey, your bug...

Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive

I found it in the player guide.

You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.


Its been Ninjaed already... !!!! This is the worst decision CCP could have made... This WAS a major draw for the defacto 25-50 age group.. you know the ones with real lives and junk. I have 4 accounts I'll be letting go, CCP will get one final 20 payment from me for transfers to my other 2 accounts Ill be keeping. Good job CCP just reduced your player base accounts wise by probably half.. watch and youll see!!

Erimisha
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:29:00 - [2146]
 

Originally by: Sean Mcarthur
what do you mean hidden? if you open www.eve-online.com press dev blog and then coments it is right there. Isn't that where it is supossed to be? i HATE this new change but please make us all look like paronoids. I am more troubled with ccp billing partners problem.


Originally by: ignobil
if in the main eve page you click in the "ghost training remove" news and then in the dev blog, and again in the comments you will get here again. that´s how i find it..


It used to be listed as a "sticky thread" (always at the top of the list) in the Eve Information Portal forum. This is the most used forum (that I know of) for people to find dev posts. There was another thread in the same forum that was simply locked after 49 pages. In the old thread there was a dev that pointed to this thread as a place to continue the discussion. Now CCP has simply removed the new thread from the EVE Information Portal.

If that isn't trying to bury it into obscurity I don't know what is.

Cosy Ceaon
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:29:00 - [2147]
 


RDevz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:30:00 - [2148]
 

Chickens coming home to roost. From http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/www/ccpgames/pdf/CCP_registration_2.pdf (CCP's Company Registration Document)

Reputational risk

Reputational risk is the risk that CCP will suffer loss of revenue due to negative publicity. Such negative publicity may result from operational decisions, or lack thereof, or from events arising within CCP’s online virtual worlds. In this respect, it should be noted that the Company’s main source of revenue is subscription fees, collected from a large number of private individuals. These individuals form a user ommunity that is highly demanding and interactive. Damage to the Company’s reputation may cause these individuals to terminate their subscriptions in large numbers. In this case, future earnings would be adversely affected.

Nathan Lee
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:31:00 - [2149]
 

A year training would be about 10 to 15 mil sp and those sell for about 2 to 3 mil isk.

So i sell one of my accounts and buy myself a years worth of gametime in GTCs.

Whoever posted this plz tell me where i can buy 6 gtc for 3m isk cause i really really want to know :)

Dmian
Gallente
Gallenterrorisme
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:31:00 - [2150]
 

My Name is Earl, S01-E07 "Stole Beer From A Golfer". Go see it, if you're not as slow as Randy Hickey you'll understand why this is being disabled.
Cheers.

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:31:00 - [2151]
 

Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool
Ok why was this thread unstuck'd and mysteriously moved to where it don't show ???

CCP you trying to backpeddle yet again ???

HarrytheBarstool is watching .....


Perhaps because it is however many pages of emo-rage, "I'm quitting" posts, and accusations of lying with only laughable backing? Thus it accomplishes no real purpose but to confuse the issue for anyone trying to find out what's going on? Besides, most people aren't even reading it anymore just posting the same things to the last page, so it seems like one unending paranoid freak-out over a minor change, with a bit of justified annoyance at the short time frame and poor handling thrown in. Oh, and justified complaints that this change wasn't "complete", leaving out things like buy/sell orders and RP.


Where is your 'backing' that this is a bug? You brought up the fact that they changed the Chinese server to stop Ghost training awhile ago. If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused? Given the most common origin for farmers, I'm not surprised it got to that point on Serenity first. Now they say it has gotten there on Tranq. They most likely have logs that show them what skills are being trained by unsubbed accounts - if most of the growth in ghost training was on very high-end skills set just before the unsub, aren't they justified in assuming most are abusing? Could it be that *gasp* they might be telling us the truth??

NupetietVer
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:32:00 - [2152]
 

Great, now the only people playing are either Fraking rich or living with mom and pop!

Great work CCP for catering to a specific few with your DumbAzk pricing on GTC's and nerfing Ghost Training, glad to see you make EVE more like ANY OTHER MMO out there!

IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:34:00 - [2153]
 

so ummmm
wts tinfoil hats ?
by the looks of things they are actualy warranted Laughing

Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:34:00 - [2154]
 

*giggle*
This is more Drama than I've ever seen in the Drone Regions ...

btw removing ghost training is a bad idea in our humble opinion.
As countless (at least I don't care to count) have a already explained: It removes one of the biggest incentives to return to eve after a long absence.. (sometimes you grow bored of EVE and want to try something different.. or simply can't afford it.. or your credit card expires and the replacement is late...)

With that incentive gone you might very well loose older players.
Another point is: It might very well be that the amount of money racked in by Alt-accounts after this change will be lower than the amount racked in by multiple Alt-Accounts resubbing after their training finished... as I don't think people that "abused" the ghosttraining for multiple Alt-accounts will continue using and continually resub that many.

Ridickulo
Minmatar
Tiger-Shrimp
Sons of EvE Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:34:00 - [2155]
 

Originally by: Nathan Lee
A year training would be about 10 to 15 mil sp and those sell for about 2 to 3 mil isk.

So i sell one of my accounts and buy myself a years worth of gametime in GTCs.

Whoever posted this plz tell me where i can buy 6 gtc for 3m isk cause i really really want to know :)


I did.

So the value is inacurate. If the real one is 3 GTC, you still dont see a problem?

Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:35:00 - [2156]
 

Edited by: Julius Rigel on 14/10/2008 17:36:25
Originally by: NupetietVer
Great, now the only people playing are either Fraking rich or living with mom and pop!
Who are these internet spaceship geeks you are talking about that DON'T live in their mother's basement? Neutral

[Edit:]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
wts tinfoil hats ?
Are they waterproof? Will they repell emo tears? If so I'll take two. ugh

Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:35:00 - [2157]
 

Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Seviere
Originally by: Erimisha
Originally by: Kekyana
Why does this thread no longer show up?

Why is CCP getting rid of it? This is an OUTRAGE. not only did they LIE to us, they keep removing posts ABOUT the player's guide and now they are trying to HIDE this entire thread.

what the heck is going on over there?



Threads temporarily 'disappear' as they're being scrubbed/modded.

What is really funny is that I've read almost every page in this thread and really wonder why some of the posts were REMOVED (not moderated but outright REMOVED). I'm talking posts without any cursing, no name calling and nothing even remotely inflamatory/against the rules. This thread has been downright civil compared to what goes in C&P, CAoD and even the Market Discussion forum yet this thread has seen more moderation than those 3 forums combined in the past month..

Probably want to cut the thread short a few pages... so it doesn't look so embarassing for them


In a few hours this thread will have 3 pages, all filled with posts supporting their move to eliminate ghost training.
Seriously...if that happens, I'm switching sides.



welcome to the dark side:P

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:35:00 - [2158]
 

Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Erimisha
If they knew how to fix the bug a year ago why did they leave it in?
Could it be, just possibly, maybe, because they were trying to be nice and not hurt people who were honestly just on vacation, or forgot to resub, or whatever? That they really never intended it, but wanted to leave it in as long as it wasn't getting systematically abused?
Or maybe they hoped to forestall or at least postpone the flood of OMFGIQUITYOUSUCKWAHWAHWAH that we've seen here. (And who could blame them?)

mofokitkat
The Wrong Hole
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:36:00 - [2159]
 

Originally by: yarrmarr
Thank god the playerguide has been modified so it now 'correctly' states that training won't continue anymore for inactive accounts.

CCP wtf are you doing? Didn't you learn anything from your previous f*ckups in the past few years?




did they **** . pretty clear to see.

MONEY GRABBING *****S.

Don't know about you guys but i'v stuck with eve and sold it to my friends etc as the best there was if you wanted something different to WOW. Guess what. It's no longer different. It's now dated and as It's run by *******s who think were all dummies who wont quit because they have us addicted, im gonna go check out the competition.

quite a few of my closest friends in game have already bolted to warhammer. mebe it's time i went and had a look for some other company to give my hard earned cash to too.

make ccp lose out by not subbing . it's the only way to show them this isn't on. this isnt even about ghost training alone anymore. they have made the issue even bigger.

Nathan Lee
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:37:00 - [2160]
 

It was CCP that allowed the buying and selling of characters personally i have always been against this.


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