open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked Disabling ghost training - the blog edition
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 ... : last (207)

Author Topic

Sam Neill
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:02:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Col Carter
Well, I should slap myself for having a read on these forums, bumping into this amazing example of product marketing and raising an eyebrow or two. And this blog is an even greater insult to intelligence.


EVE's a pretty mature game these days, one where even if some of the old crowd are gone there is a visible continuation of care for the game, and not just for the product. Over the years we have seen some amazing marketing hickups, which is normal in any company, but this is getting to a point where the trend of care is taking a nosedive.

Not so much because of the dynamics of this change, though any virtual product marketeer can name a few dozen hands on examples of the high value of nurturing product bonuses beyond the basic attributes, but because of the methods involved and the rapid succession of several other critical changes.

I've spent the last 3 weeks travelling between my own country, the UK and iceland, after having been asked to come of retirement to assist as a financial auditor and advisor, and regardless of the difference in markets and niches I am a bit shocked to observe the same schools of marketing and financial prospect management which are visible in what was once this wonderful EVE as in the recently "traditional" but oh so dangerous schools of economic thought outside of this particular virtual market.

Combined with the GTC product changes, and now tapping into the value elements of the product "EVE", it's a pretty neat case of how a school of thought can initiate a grand move in the wrong direction. Almost funny, when the GTC changes were announced I predicted folks this very change, and even though personally ghost training or its absence makes little difference to me, the manner and form of the change - once more - confirms the trend of the past 11 months.

Long term product streamlining is one thing, separating the product from the subscriber is perhaps a means of crowd control, but it is a method ill suited for long term continuation of a product where the product and the subscriber cannot be seperated from a marketing perspective.

In earlier days the same attempt to remove ghost training was made, a long time ago now. A time where it would have been possible, in contrast to these days where the bonus value elements of a virtual subscription product are so essential to make the product itself both stand out as well as keep the subscribers at an extremely low treshold to always come back.

I can see the financial prospects, such projections are not too difficult nor is the reasoning behind it. I can also see the short term view, as well as the long term view, and I think CCP is very wise to not explore those two topics too much and instead take it on in a step by step fashion.

But these and coming changes will make EVE a game among a sea of others, without the low tresholds that lets people come back, without the foundation for trust of subscribers in the product they come to adore and appreciate alike over time, and the company making that experience in the same breath.

This is hardly a change made because of a distorted view of equality or balance, providing that as an argument is an insult to the intelligence of any subscriber with a little bit of economics education I must admit. In financial terms this will not damage CCP, far from, it will be another step to a changed service model, unfortunately just not the type of service model which people value so much. But a model far more in tune with the rest of the industry, away from the EVE as it is in many, many aspects.



signed

Kif
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:02:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Kif
Originally by: LordSwift
Originally by: Reihai
-1 account here.


+ Isk and stuff here ---->


I hope you enjoy eves slow transformation into a generic Korean grind MMO

-1 account, and no you cant have the isk because its not subscribed Shocked and nor will it ever be again


EVE is already a Grind MMO. Instead of grinding XP to lvl up we Grind missions and kill npcs for isk. This enables us to LVL up buy buying skill books and better ships.
So basically the same, just not bright colours and elves.


Eve is a grind MMO for you because you choose for it to be one. For the people who actually choose to explore the depth of eve and enjoy this game beyond grinding missions in jita, this coupled with the GTC changes is a huge punch in the face.

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:03:00 - [183]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:03:00 - [184]
 

23 pages until we get a CCP response.

AzzKickinFreakShow
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: AzzKickinFreakShow on 14/10/2008 00:04:38
"But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."

I apologize to all... this is my fault!!! I'll explain...

I have 9 accounts, and I was paying them with ISK to buy GTC's.. when CCP had their last brain fart, it pushed my monthly requirement from 950 mil isk per month(133 mil per month x3 months for a 90 day GTC per acct, which I need 7 of... the other 2 I pay cash)for my game enjoyment (no, im not a farmer, I am diverse and have 21 research alts Very Happy ) to 1.75 bil per month (250 mil per month x2 months for a 60 day GTC per acct, which I STILL need 7 of...) it's just simply not possible for me to have any kind of ENJOYABLE GAME PLAY, when I have to work so hard to make the isk I need, JUST TO KEEP MY ACCTS ACTIVE!!. It would be incredibly ******ED to pay $15 USD per month, per acct, x9 (a total of $135 USD) to play this game!! Therefore, I let 7 of my accts go inactive, and left them training a longer skill!!!!

I admit, it's a fantastic game, but it's just not worth it to me to pay that much on a monthly basis. I truly apologize to all of you who enjoy this game, and think it is as wonderful as I do... I just simply could not afford to work that hard on making isk, to keep my accts active!!! I know, it has caused a major uproar in the community, and for that, I am eternally shamed. Twisted Evil

IF YOU CAN FIND NO SARCASM IN THE ABOVE STATEMENTS, YOUR A COMPLETE AND UTTER MORON, (OR MAYBE YOUR A MEMBER OF CCP)AND DESERVE TO BE BURIED UP TO YOUR HEADS WITHIN THE VACINITY OF 1,000 RED ANT HILLS IN THE MIDDLE OF A RAINFOREST!!

Disclaimer: The preceding statement inferring the necessity of extreme bodily harm was laid out for entertainment purposes only. The maker of such claims does not intend bodily harm, ill will, or ill fated luck upon any reader henceforth. In fact, the preceding "Reply to topic" was made in absolute jest, and must be looked upon soley as the complete waste of time that it actually was. In the immortal words of Frank Bartles and Ed Jaymes (played by David Joseph Rufkahr and **** Maugg, respectively)in those old Bartles and James wine cooler commercials created by Hal Riney, which ran from 1984 to 1991. "Thank you, for your support"


Cosy Ceaon
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0810/isabug.jpg
is a bug is a bug a buuuuuuuuuuuuug


No need to stretch the forums about it.

done

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Saraah Leeown
Great stuff, I play eve online, not "unsubscribed skill training online"
Please make sure all RP etc is stopped on an unsubscribed account to thanks.

Bye bye deadwood Very Happy


End yourself.

Preferably via: ingested bleach, starving tiger sharks, sex with madeline albright.


Actually, he is right tbh.
Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?

Aganola
Amarr
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:04:00 - [188]
 

Edited by: Aganola on 14/10/2008 00:07:10
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Rofl.

49 page thread didn't need to be locked just because you guys posted a dev blog (something you should've done first, btw). After all, the dev blog is basically "get stuffed".

Is there some new tangent for us to discuss in this shiny clean thread?
just this:
OFFICIAL dev blog:
http://i37.tinypic.com/66m8ns.jpg
Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.


EVEN MORE OFFICIAL PLAYER GUIDE:
http://i34.tinypic.com/5eycn5.jpg
source:
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp

scroll down a bit you'll find it just below the two blue tables

edit: bottom line: it was a feature, now it's a bug!

edit2: they deleted 6 posts before I could update mine! :P

Emrys Ap'Morgravaine
Caldari
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:05:00 - [189]
 

Having been debating the power of 2 offer for the last week or so, I'd decided whilst out earlier for some birthday drinks (yeah, great timing there CCP, cheers...) that I'd take up the offer and get a second account on the go...

So as I'm doing so, one of my corpies points out the change to me, now having just read through both the forum threads (with the power of 2 window open in the background)

Stuff it CCP - you aint getting the cash for that second account...

Em.

(posting in both threads... just in case CCP devs missed it the first time dammit)

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:05:00 - [190]
 

Oh hey, you guys are going to stop OFFLINE RESEARCH POINT ACCUMULATION too, right?

Cause that one affects game balance far more. RIGHT?

Of course it wouldn't get you any extra revenue, but that's beside the point! We must balance~! and balance hard!

Hammeroffire
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 - [191]
 

You could say that people took advantage of this "bug".
It dramatically increased the utility of the service of this game as it allowed people to come back to the game after breaks [forced by work, military, family, ect] and have an incentive to go to the game as you had a new toy to play with.

Removing it is not fair.

Sure, we "took advantage" of this bug for a total of five years.
Guess what? that means 5 years of players are now at a godly-level advantage over the rest of the players.

When a "bug" persists THIS long, it becomes a common strategy of the game.

You said you made an implimentation and goofed up, intending it to occur in china, and when we saw it we were outraged.

Similarly today, you suddenly consider this a bug!?
It's not as if you never knew about it, You did it in china.

Your reasoning behind calling it a "Bug" is a false claim for these reasons.


Does this really cost you that much?
We would like to see a chart, a graph, SOMETHING that shows us how this costs you money, and how much.

The thing that REALLY ****es people off here is that the way you impliment these "skills" involves NO real work, simply WAITING for seconds/minuites/hours/days/months. Because there is no physical "Work" involved, your PAST reasoning was worthless, and your current reasoning is similarly invalid.

Everyone lost trust, faith, and respect in you.
You are making up excuses to make us pay money we did not pay before.
This has already resulted in the loss of subscriptions. Your false claims result in more losses. Just give in to our demands, and no more money gets hurt, alright?

Lethreas Lashnda
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 - [192]
 

WE WANT THEN CHANCE FOR LEARN ALL OF 3 CHARACHTERS WHAT EXIST ON OUR ACCOUNT, NOT JUST ONE OF THEM.
THIS IS A BUG TOO!!!!!

WE CANT LEARN JUST ONE OF THEM. FIX IT!!!!!!

good night


D4RT N3RDiUS
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 - [193]
 

CMON CCP GIVE US ONE STRAIGTH ANSWER!!! OH WAIT YOU DID IT AND FAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIILLLLLLLL


I THING SOME PPL GONA GET FIRED.. and is not becouse of your lies is becouse you have a lot of angry customers who quit and you need to pay the bills..

Jonathan Peterbilt
Caldari
Wyland-Yutani Corporation
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 - [194]
 

It's about the time you fix this. People that don't pay the game, should not be able to train skills (skill training being the part of playing the game).

Trinneth
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:06:00 - [195]
 

I honestly viewed this as a feature, it's not one I've ever used, but I liked that it was there, and when the time comes for me to take a break from EVE it would have made it significantly more likely that I'd return.

I can think of three obvious reasons why you'd see a surge in players cancelling their accounts and then resubscribing - the first is that you actively encourage players to run several accounts in a way that no other MMO does (power of two, Capitals needing a second character just to move systems...) the other two are Conan and Warhammer - people went away to try the flavour of the month, then when they got tired of it they returned.

I'm not wild about the way this was announced either - the balance claim was a fairly obvious red herring, but you could have easily avoided almost all of this reaction if you'd announced skill queues were going to be implemented at the same time - that way this could have been a footnote, you'd have been taking, but giving back more.

Duvaren
Amarr
The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:07:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Charly Quickfire
3 chars per account is deeply wrong as well. Allowing only one char per account should tripple CCP's revenue.



Especially since we can only train a single character at a time per account.

If CCP is going to remove this so-called bug (yes CCP you were caught lying Shocked) I want to be able to train all three characters at the same time on the same account.

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:07:00 - [197]
 

Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 14/10/2008 00:07:37
Originally by: Avon
Actually, he is right tbh.
Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?


I was flaming him for the first reason, see my post above. I'm all for removing passive RP gain. To summarize my expoert position: FUK DIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

airdefense
Caldari
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [198]
 

Sounds good to me.. Will this extra money help you fix your ****ing game?

Chirinako
Caldari
The Junkyard Dogs
Talos Coalition
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [199]
 

I'm now beginning to realise why Iceland is bankrupt.

miss cjBishop155
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [200]
 

This is a bad dicision, and is only going to antaganise the play base.

dont give me that lag rubish, i know as well as you do, theres no overhead to keep a skill training while offline.

this is not a bug, it was changed so that goast training stoped before accidenly in a prevous patch, and was subsiqently changed back to allowing goast training.

the bottom line is, ccp ran out of money, and are wondering how to squize the last big of RL money from people who allready at the limit of how many accounts there prepaird to pay for.

this is a bad change, does it effect me, yes. while i keep more accounts active because of it, no. do what everyone else is doeing, sack some staff, but dont **** on the people who got you to were you are now.

Haveing goast training encouraged people who left eve for abit, to come back, when eve-mon reminded them a month latter that there skill had finished (i know, its happend to me). now people wile nolonger get that reminder, it will just remind them how much time theyve lost, and subsiqently not come back to eve.

so yer, stupid idea ccp.

LuthienTinuviel
Amarr
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [201]
 

Quote:
We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:

1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress

We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.

Torfi Frans Olafsson

Senior Producer of EVE Online


Should really read

Quote:
We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to:

1. The world economy is ****ed atm Iceland being hit very hard
2. CCP noticed a surge in players unsubbing due to this
3. Players now have to bail out CCP for an alleged 5 y/o bug (lol) and you want more of our iskies

We truly hope that the community will bend over and take one for the time while we have a good old laugh at those players that do behind there backs.

Torfi Frans Olafsson

Senior Producer of EVE Online


Oh and yes my other account will not be resubbed and this one is not going to be resubbed gg CCP you had a good game till you decided to start royally ****ing over your member base.

Mad

Alekanderu
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Hammeroffire
You could say that people took advantage of this "bug".
It dramatically increased the utility of the service of this game as it allowed people to come back to the game after breaks [forced by work, military, family, ect] and have an incentive to go to the game as you had a new toy to play with.

Removing it is not fair.

Sure, we "took advantage" of this bug for a total of five years.
Guess what? that means 5 years of players are now at a godly-level advantage over the rest of the players.

When a "bug" persists THIS long, it becomes a common strategy of the game.

You said you made an implimentation and goofed up, intending it to occur in china, and when we saw it we were outraged.

Similarly today, you suddenly consider this a bug!?
It's not as if you never knew about it, You did it in china.

Your reasoning behind calling it a "Bug" is a false claim for these reasons.


Does this really cost you that much?
We would like to see a chart, a graph, SOMETHING that shows us how this costs you money, and how much.

The thing that REALLY ****es people off here is that the way you impliment these "skills" involves NO real work, simply WAITING for seconds/minuites/hours/days/months. Because there is no physical "Work" involved, your PAST reasoning was worthless, and your current reasoning is similarly invalid.

Everyone lost trust, faith, and respect in you.
You are making up excuses to make us pay money we did not pay before.
This has already resulted in the loss of subscriptions. Your false claims result in more losses. Just give in to our demands, and no more money gets hurt, alright?


all of this is totally irrelevant because it wasn't even a bug, it was an intended feature despite what ccp is trying to claim now

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Oh hey, you guys are going to stop OFFLINE RESEARCH POINT ACCUMULATION too, right?

Cause that one affects game balance far more. RIGHT?

Of course it wouldn't get you any extra revenue, but that's beside the point! We must balance~! and balance hard!


WINNAR

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [204]
 

Originally by: Avon
Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?


You keep up all this good posting, Avon, and you're going to find yourself in O**** soon.

Elohllird
Funky Chill Collective
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:08:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: airdefense
Sounds good to me.. Will this extra money help you fix your ****ing game?


Laughing

Idara
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 - [206]
 

New sig pimpage.

SHC 4tw.

Also: way to lock the other thread. Rolling Eyes

Yakumo Smith
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 - [207]
 

In your locked thread I posted that you'd given me 2 causes to worry about the long term prospects of this game...thanks for giving me a third so quickly.

I've wasted 2 years building up slowly and planning for a future I no longer have confidence in.

Time to get my moneies worth before it all goes pete tong.

Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 - [208]
 

Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.


This. Nothing more.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 14/10/2008 00:07:37
Originally by: Avon
Actually, he is right tbh.
Why should people be able to gain RP, and thus ISK on accounts that they aren't paying for?


I was flaming him for the first reason, see my post above. I'm all for removing passive RP gain. To summarize my expoert position: FUK DIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Oh, fairy snuff.

Personally I am happy for inactive to mean exactly that.
I just think CCP are doing a terrible job of selling it.

Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.10.14 00:09:00 - [210]
 

I needs some stuff, send me.



Pages: first : previous : ... 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 ... : last (207)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only