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Ar'tee
DarkStar 1
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:19:00 - [1891]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout

A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of our bank accounts, which frankly we can do without given the financial situation our country is currently in, and capsuleers who actively put their money into not logging into our game because training works just as well when you're logged off will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who cost us precious dollars by doing basically the exact same thing except without paying us money for it.



Fixed that statement for you.

Alleneara
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 - [1892]
 

Originally by: Triksterism
Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.

Yup, in WoW the rested XP (allowing XP gain from mobs at twice the usual amount for a maximum of up to 1,5 levels, which takes 10 days of being in an inn or city to reach) accumulates when game time has run out.

Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
Bloody Amarr's
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 - [1893]
 

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg

sure

Tobias Lee
Star Mercs
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 - [1894]
 

Does the phone company not bill you on the days you don't make any phone calls?

Dunno who posted this but i do know i only pay for the phone calls i make :) i dont Pay for a phone call that was not made :P


Adam Slysphere
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:20:00 - [1895]
 

Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Triksterism

You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.

Great. Let them take a break from Eve. And like any other service, they get NONE of the benefits the paying customers do while they are gone! Everyone acts like this was an entitlement...that you should be entitled to some perk without paying. Bullcookies.

Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion! I'd also like to see a survey that asks people's primary reason for starting to play Eve - while I'd bet that offline skill gain would make the top three, I'd lay money that inactive skill gain wouldn't. Or maybe people are bigger parasites than I want to believe...


Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.

The thing here though, Annaphera, is that people can still train a skill but the trade off is they can't play without paying. Unfortunatly there are those who abuse it to farm isk.


You can only get a set amount of sleep xp, which maxes out after a few days so that's not really a big deal. It would be better to say that WoW character go do Kara raids on their own after people cancel their accounts, so when the players return they have lots of new stuff to play with.

Triksterism
Spacecataz.
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 - [1896]
 

Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 15:22:02
Originally by: Alleneara
Originally by: Triksterism
Do people on WoW continue to get "sleep xp" when their accounts are inactive? Just wondering.

Yup, in WoW the rested XP (allowing XP gain from mobs at twice the usual amount for a maximum of up to 1,5 levels, which takes 10 days of being in an inn or city to reach) accumulates when game time has run out.


Well there ya go. Thank you.

LadyMaverick
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 - [1897]
 

So basically, now I have to PAY AND WAIT till I get to..say.. carrier... So what if I find out that after having to pay and wait a few months I don't like flying carriers?! Can I have my money back?

If I can ghosttrain, I cut my costs. I pay little for unwanted waiting. Waiting that brings me no joy whatsoever itself!

Sean Drake
Caldari
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 - [1898]
 

Edited by: Sean Drake on 14/10/2008 15:24:14
lol I see CCCP are ninja editing there own website remeber kids if we delete it
it never existed

and yay I canceled before they had tech problems

Borg Zorg
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:22:00 - [1899]
 

Originally by: thelung187
Edited by: thelung187 on 14/10/2008 15:02:15
Originally by: Avon
Hey, your bug...

Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive

I found it in the player guide.

You guys better get in there and ninja-edit it.


Quoting this due to the lol/"working-as-intended-wait-we-get-more-money-maybe-the-other-way" factor.

edit: glad to see you were able to edit that so quickly, way to be on top of it CCP!

Fu... bastards.
Shame on you,this game is going down just for this way of treting coustomers.
Thay did actualy change that line in player guide.
What a bounch of incompetent s.......rs

D4RT N3RDiUS
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:23:00 - [1900]
 

Quote:
Now additionally I cant cancel my subscription because subscription page is under maintenance

go to your credit card and cancel the last payment XD see wth happen you play free 1 mont.. again ccp are you making things worst cant cancel the suscriction... mmm to many players cancel theyrs? lol.. are you afreid of the angry players wh are leaving with hey money to anther place? ... is your fault ccp dont blame the players..

WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:23:00 - [1901]
 

How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:25:00 - [1902]
 

Arg, the number of "If you didn't pay for xxx service in real life you wouldn't get anything from it either" posts...

Listen, this ghost skill training issue is something akin to this:

You sign up for a cell phone contract. You get one of their "free" cell phones for a sign-up bonus. When the contract's up, you don't renew because you can't afford it.

Ghost training can be thought of as still being able to keep your handset. You can still change your wallpapers, listen to MP3s on it, use it as a phone... you just can't make calls or do anything that depends on having a network. I don't know of any cell phone company that repossesses the cell phone after a contract is expired.


However, this isn't the main issue here Evil or Very Mad

The majority of us are complaining about being lied to, like children, idiots, sheep, or what-have-you. Had CCP announced, say a month before they planned to implement it, that they were disabling this feature because it was being abused, fine. But instead they claim it's a balance issue and then a bug.

I am frustrated. Over the past few years, CCP's PR has not improved. Their communication still sucks, and they still have this habit of lying to their customers.

We just want to be treated with respect

Wussie
The Phoenix Enclave
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:25:00 - [1903]
 

I for one would like to see a skill queue to soothe the drama tears of this change. With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue.

Gorek Loc
Rising Ashes Inc.
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:25:00 - [1904]
 

Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?


If I cancel one of my 3 accounts for 3 months, it will cost CCP more than if I ghost-train for a whole year.

the point is, if you ghost-train, you will be getting back to the game with a better character, and possibly being able to do what you wanted to do from the beginning.

CowsCANBark
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:26:00 - [1905]
 

Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?


Seeing as how they took down account management, zero.

Maria Dalin
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:26:00 - [1906]
 

Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?


I think we will rather see more "juicy" characters on illegal $ 4 char portals

Adam Slysphere
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 - [1907]
 

Originally by: Midas Man


Fair enough but if you had a deal that when you signed were told You only pay line rental when you make a call.

Then 3 months later you get a memo say the we will now charge line rental for everyday even if you dont make a call the offer we give you was a typo. im sure youd be a bit ****ed off. now if the contract you signed says we have the right do as we please when we please. you have no case to argue.

Is this fair business practise no. And nor is what CCP are doing

An the 2000+ post is just proving to them how much they are hurting the player base who will reduce account or emoquit.

So all in all its a Lose/Lose for CCP


The difference being, you didn't sign a contract with CCP stating that you can ghost train characters for the life of the game. You sign a contact saying they're God and they can do anything they want with EVE at any time every time you log into EVE. Like the phone company, if they changed their service plan I would either continue paying or I would find a different service provider. Which is what some people are doing and I can't begrudge them for that. I respect their opinions and hope to see them back someday.

Again, I go back to the statement that you're character is progressing without any money or work from you at all. In most games that's considered an exploit... I can't really blame CCP for wanting to change the way the game works to limit this. After all, it says on the box that game play experience may change.


Triksterism
Spacecataz.
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 - [1908]
 

Originally by: CowsCANBark
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?


Seeing as how they took down account management, zero.


He means deleting your character as opposed to canceling your account.

You are able to delete your character after logging into the game itself.

IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 - [1909]
 

Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 15:28:21
Originally by: Annaphera



Oh, and yet again...the flippin' game manual is NOT a promotion!






however that manual shouldnt lie to you
it should clearly state the use of its product
or wouldnt you complain if your toaster manual told you that it is safe to submerge it in water and is capable of microwaving a roast in under 30 seconds ?

of course in this case its more of
the toaster was indeed capable of working under water but that now has decleard a bug after this has become comon practise for more than 5 years

in this event it may be regarded as a fundamental game mechanics change (skill gain is a game mechanic in any game and eve's skilltaining is unique!)
and being blatantly lied to that this thing that was once a feature is now a bug if not exploit doesnt sit well with allot of people

i think THAT more than anything is what gets people angry (its my reason anyways)


edit : curse my crappy keyboard
if you find missing letters ... keep them Razz

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:27:00 - [1910]
 

Originally by: Marius Duvall
The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.

Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.

Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:28:00 - [1911]
 

Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?


Not many, but I for one am going to stop my alts subscriptions, transfer them to my main or just sell them and only pay for 1 account from now on. I would assume that many, many others will do the same.



CowsCANBark
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:28:00 - [1912]
 

Please do not post other peoples personal information. Navigator


Reptzo
Channel 4 News Team
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:29:00 - [1913]
 

Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?


None, and in all reality, if every post here represents the amount of quitting people, (multiple posts representing alts), than only 1200-1300 people will actually be quitting. Now factoring in all the people that will not resub and such that don't post, means maybe 5-10 k people, tops. So, that is 2-3 % of the total current sub numbers? I don't think it will matter much in the grand scheme.

CCP has made their decision and is obviously going to stick with it.

And on a side note, I trained carrier 5 while playing the game, along with jump cal 5, and many other 1-2 month skills. Don't see what the problem is in making you play the game, or at least pay.

Borg Zorg
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:29:00 - [1914]
 

My main is definitly out of this game.
Im not paying for it any more.Subscription canceld.
And this char was a power of too project just got it 4 days ago.And i feel been cheatead.
Will cansell this subscription whan thay bring back my acount servicis.
What a bunch of mo..ns.
OMFG

Chris Stormrider
Gallente
IDEON ANDRON
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 - [1915]
 

Originally by: Ar'tee
Originally by: CCP Fallout

A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of our bank accounts, which frankly we can do without given the financial situation our country is currently in, and capsuleers who actively put their money into not logging into our game because training works just as well when you're logged off will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who cost us precious dollars by doing basically the exact same thing except without paying us money for it.



Fixed that statement for you.


exactly my point. if training a skill without playing is an unfair advantage we might as well get xp for doing genocide on goblins or bearded keltirs. if training a skill without paying is the problem it doesn't make much sense to me. If CCP decides to give eve for free to some people or to everyone will I protest because it's not financially sound?

BIind
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 - [1916]
 

Edited by: BIind on 14/10/2008 15:32:11
Originally by: Wussie
With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue.


You losing 2 weeks worth of SP a year by getting stuck in traffic/sleeping/having a life = ~5% less database lag apparently.

People have been asking for a skill queue since day 1, just forget about it already.

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:30:00 - [1917]
 

Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Marius Duvall
The issue isn't that the players guide isn't a promotion (which is arguable, really) but that a supposed "bug" was listed as an intended effect therein.
No, it never was listed as an intended effect, ever, anywhere. The guide merely described the way things were. All the emorage in the world can't change documentation into proof of intent.

Of course, since this has been pointed out about seven thousand times and ignored about seven thousand times, I don't expect pointing it out again will have any effect on you "But it was in the guide!!!!11one!!" folks.


And you still failed to show anything in response to my challenge many pages back, so I'll post it again:

Find me one other "bug" or "unintended feature" in the player's manual.

Or, better yet, so we're on the same level: What would you consider a list of "intended effects?" The features page?

Total Disaster
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 - [1918]
 

Originally by: BIind
Originally by: Wussie
With training stopping when the account goes inactive there's basically no drawback left for CCP withholding them from introducing the training queue.


You losing 2 weeks worth of SP a year by getting stuck in traffic/sleping/having a life = $$$

People have been asking for a skill queue since day 1, just forget about it already.


I'm pretty sure that the day I die, all I can think about is how my char had 5mil SP less than it would have with a skillqueue.

WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 - [1919]
 

Originally by: Seth Ruin


Ghost training can be thought of as still being able to keep your handset. You can still change your wallpapers, listen to MP3s on it, use it as a phone... you just can't make calls or do anything that depends on having a network. I don't know of any cell phone company that repossesses the cell phone after a contract is expired.



Nor does CCP come by to remove the EVE client from your PC. It's still there, you can start it up but it just does not do anything. Like mobile phones 10 years ago.

Adam Slysphere
Posted - 2008.10.14 15:33:00 - [1920]
 

Originally by: Reptzo
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube
How many people here are actually going to terminate their character in protest rather then just cancel, an action that is easily reversible ?


None, and in all reality, if every post here represents the amount of quitting people, (multiple posts representing alts), than only 1200-1300 people will actually be quitting. Now factoring in all the people that will not resub and such that don't post, means maybe 5-10 k people, tops. So, that is 2-3 % of the total current sub numbers? I don't think it will matter much in the grand scheme.

CCP has made their decision and is obviously going to stick with it.

And on a side note, I trained carrier 5 while playing the game, along with jump cal 5, and many other 1-2 month skills. Don't see what the problem is in making you play the game, or at least pay.


The forums definitely represent the vocal minority. There will be a few people that cancel their accounts. there will be some that cancel and end up coming back after a few months. There will be some that cancel and never come back. It happens in every game every time there's a change made to better the game, but the players don't like it.

CCP won't really feel much of an impact and the people that rage quit will feel better about themselves for awhile.


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