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Ratio Legis
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 - [1801]
 

Edited by: Ratio Legis on 14/10/2008 14:45:14
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?

And you are arguing that it's a good change that would prompt a person to reevaluate his RL priorities and realize he's actually too poor to support his hoby, while a week ago he was not?


I fail to see how this is impacting him ... If he was just running one account it's still going to be the same for him. And seriously, if he's that strapped for cash is running two accounts really that good of an idea?

I'm not trolling and I'm all for people having a hobby and what not. All I'm saying is that if someone is that strapped for cash than perhaps he should focus less on an internet spaceship game and put his money elsewhere. Am I wrong in suggesting that people spend their money on important things in life instead of a video game? lol

You mean you fail to see how upping the price of the service might affect a poor person to stop using the service? Because that's what just happened - CCP have announced how people need to pay more for getting the same thing. With the same justification you could argue that it's ok to double the subscription fee for everyone and the poor people can start paying for each second month, missing half the time. That's not how things work.

And yes, you are wrong suggesting that you know better than people how and where they should spend their time and money.

KingBobs Dawn
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 - [1802]
 

paying 35 dollar every 2 months is too much for skilltraining or better an boring look on your skills an see how many weeks remains....

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 - [1803]
 

Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?

V.

Dlightfull
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:45:00 - [1804]
 

Originally by: Adam Slysphere


I'm not trolling and I'm all for people having a hobby and what not. All I'm saying is that if someone is that strapped for cash than perhaps he should focus less on an internet spaceship game and put his money elsewhere. Am I wrong in suggesting that people spend their money on important things in life instead of a video game? lol


I never payd irl money for eve, always isk, and i was able to keep 1 account active always, while 2 others were active 7-8months/year, rest of time on ghost training. The first account is the 1 i make isk on and the other 2 are pvp characters-the cahracters i have fun with. Now, with these changes, i can't keep even 2 accounts active and what's the point in keeping the money making 1 if i don't have fun on it?

Moon Kitten
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:46:00 - [1805]
 

Originally by: Adam Reed
What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.

Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.

Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.

ATARI BABY
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:46:00 - [1806]
 

Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise
CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...



why the hell would you want the source code
what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe



source code mean private servers. private servers mean free play.

Wygg
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 - [1807]
 

Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.



The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 - [1808]
 

Originally by: Moon Kitten

Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.


Ok.

Eve becomes a sad idea, lower than wow, cause all old players leave, alts stop training, newbs quit before 2 months game time?

This goes for 2 years? :))

KingBobs Dawn
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 - [1809]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?

V.


with managment yes this can be nice

Triksterism
Spacecataz.
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:47:00 - [1810]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?

V.


Or at least give us skill queues or training for multiple characters per account.

chotaire
Caldari
The Rising Stars
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:48:00 - [1811]
 

Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise
CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...



why the hell would you want the source code
what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe



Most useless and nonsense post of this thread, congratulations ;)

KingBobs Dawn
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:48:00 - [1812]
 

Edited by: KingBobs Dawn on 14/10/2008 14:51:08
Edited by: KingBobs Dawn on 14/10/2008 14:48:27
Originally by: KingBobs Dawn
Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?

V.


with managment yes this can be nice


>>>>or enable all chars on an account can train a skill at the same time or is this no bug CCP?

Aenemah
Wounds Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:48:00 - [1813]
 

Originally by: Triksterism

Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.



This.

Adam Slysphere
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:49:00 - [1814]
 

Originally by: Ratio Legis
Edited by: Ratio Legis on 14/10/2008 14:45:14
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
Originally by: Ratio Legis
Originally by: Adam Slysphere
If you're that strapped for cash, perhaps EVE should be way down on the priorities list?

And you are arguing that it's a good change that would prompt a person to reevaluate his RL priorities and realize he's actually too poor to support his hoby, while a week ago he was not?


I fail to see how this is impacting him ... If he was just running one account it's still going to be the same for him. And seriously, if he's that strapped for cash is running two accounts really that good of an idea?

I'm not trolling and I'm all for people having a hobby and what not. All I'm saying is that if someone is that strapped for cash than perhaps he should focus less on an internet spaceship game and put his money elsewhere. Am I wrong in suggesting that people spend their money on important things in life instead of a video game? lol

You mean you fail to see how upping the price of the service might affect a poor person to stop using the service? Because that's what just happened - CCP have announced how people need to pay more for getting the same thing. With the same justification you could argue that it's ok to double the subscription fee for everyone and the poor people can start paying for each second month, missing half the time. That's not how things work.

And yes, you are wrong suggesting that you know better than people how and where they should spend their time and money.


They're not upping the subscription fee, they're just closing a loop hole that players have been using to improve their characters without paying for the game. Which probably has gotten to be more of a problem since they started allowing characters to be bought and sold.

Hey you're right, I shouldn't be telling the guy what to do with his money. It's best not to try and help people by making a suggestion and let them be idiots and hurt themselves. I say remove the safety warning from all products and let Darwinism take over.

Triksterism
Spacecataz.
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:50:00 - [1815]
 

Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.



The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?


$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.

Jel Ting
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:50:00 - [1816]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Originally by: Jel Ting
Play the game Rolling Eyes


Why? What's the point in playing a char that can't do **** ( and the first 45 days in skill training are a complete waste of time in EVE-sense of gameplay). You don't get more skill points by playing like u used to back in 2003. So why play? It'd be ok if you could get faster SP by activelly doing the thing you're skilling (like gettin sp for firing specific gun and so on) - you don't.

This gimps new players and old players who will more or less stop looking forward to finding something new in eve.

You never saw it in an add? Let me help u there: link - 4th paragraph.

ah well.

V.



That is a guide, it tells you what to expect, not what is intent. It's not a mission statement or add stating we made it this way for you. We can get lawyered up for a semantic debate, but nah. So new players shouldn't play the game and figure things out? They shouldn't start with a frigate and lvl 1 missions? I started with 15k sp, now people start with 800-900k so your point is invalide withing 2 weeks of a new char now you can be in a t2 frigate with t2 weapons, so cry me a river, as for older players they have older chars they can wait for hulks to train or whatever and play their old account. I still think the character farming is a big aspect we are overlooking, why train one dread pilot when for the same cost I can train 2 and sell one to finance the hardware?
So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:50:00 - [1817]
 

nice carrier pic :)

Triksterism
Spacecataz.
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 - [1818]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
nice carrier pic :)


Ghost train! :D

Signaldog
Gallente
Cloak and Daggers
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 - [1819]
 

Originally by: Triksterism
Edited by: Triksterism on 14/10/2008 14:50:16
Originally by: Wygg
Originally by: Triksterism
You're missing the point. Not everyone ghost trains their level 5's. However, it is a popular thing to do when people want to take a break from eve. People should have the option. It is what CCP promoted and it is what has attracted many people to the game.



The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?


$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.


I still just don't get it...you are paying to PLAY, not to learn a skill. CCP screwed up when they did this, only because of HOW they did it.

Adam Reed
Seniors Clan
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:51:00 - [1820]
 

Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Adam Reed
What utter nonsense, how can people be so blinkered as to think that there's any commercial benefit in CCP allowing people to train skills like this? They are a company trying to make a profit, and as much as I'm in favour of smashing capitalism if you're going to have it you have to accept that companies will do what they can to maximse profits.

Frankly I didn't know that this 'ghost training' existed and was surprised to hear that it did, and has lasted so long. To the people moaning about this change, shut up and pay like the rest of us, or sod off and play Guild Wars. Fair play to CCP I say.

Stop thinking about the quarterly financial report and start thinking more long term. Perhaps in terms of years.


What? They are a company, a profit-making company. Why should they provide a service to people who aren't paying them? Justify that in any other industry and I'll pay attention.

If your point is that allowing it will help them somewhere down the line, you've lost me, I don't see how it would. The board of CCP will have considered that when they made the decision and wouldn't have done it if it's likely to impact future profits.

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:52:00 - [1821]
 

I'm silently laughing at all the morons in this thread that are applauding CCP for becoming more and more like all of the other big names that everybody absolutely despises.

Yes, good job CCP, good job.

Wygg
Minmatar
m3 Corp
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1822]
 

Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Wygg
The converse is Why should you get Carrier V without paying for it?


$30 for Carrier V, don't think many people would train it if they had to pay for it. Those cap skills are quite lengthy at level 5.


Well, that would make having them that much more special now, wouldn't it?

I still think barring parked characters for resale is the way to go. Go inactive for more than 50% of your life-span the character is locked and can't get sold. Simple, elequent, and doesn't affect players who ghost train to actually play the characters.

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1823]
 

Originally by: chotaire
Originally by: IR Scoutar
Originally by: Koyama Ise
CCP before you go bankrupt and lose your servers... release the source code...



why the hell would you want the source code
what you want is the IP or a free license to the eve universe



Most useless and nonsense post of this thread, congratulations ;)

Far from it.

IP in this context refers to "Intellectual Property," and "license" in this context refers to the legal right to use said intellectual property...

Source code will only tell you how the servers work. Without a license, you're not legally allowed to do anything with the source. Hell, even open-source software has a license (GPL and such).



Or, y'know, you can just sit there and look at hundreds of thousands (if not over a million) lines of code...

Mriss
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1824]
 

Originally by: Jel Ting


So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.




Never ever heard of anybody who could "train and do whatever" without actually paying.

Are you actually missing the whole point here.

Dathremar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1825]
 

Well I'll throw my opinion into this threadnaught.

I completely, 100% disapprove of this action. If for any reason but the completely unnecessary lies that CCP used for justification.

There wouldn't be nearly this much complaining (believe me there would still be plenty) if CCP just came out and said that they are changing this due to economic stress and believed that this was a change that could increase profits. That is something I can at least approve, even though I can't see how this would help you guys in any way. But instead you first tell us that it will help those of us that haven't abused this "system" which has been completely backed by CCP from the start and THEN when you guys realized that many people were upset by this change you labeled it a bug. This is clearly not a bug, it's been on guides since the game was released. It is also what many here believe to be a very nice game mechanic.

Does CCP really believe that this will increase profits? Really? Do you know how many people take extended breaks from the game and then come back only after a few months to be greeted by "Skill Training Completed" and have something like Battleship V completed? They will stick around after that and I think many people agree that seeing one of those long skills completed after a break is refreshing and gets you back into the game. If I take an extended break from the game, what is the incentive to come back. Everyone, EVERYONE, hates month long training times. There is not a single person and if you take a break and come back to just see mountains of training then you may not want to continue playing.

CCP this is not a good decision. In fact I see this as a terrible change, probably the worst I've seen so far (my year anniversary is coming up). I can understand that today we are seeing massive economic swings, but don't forget that we as consumers are affected too. This change makes me reconsider paying for two accounts especially considering how things have been going so far (I am not in favor of the upcoming nano nerfs). This will only hurt you guys from my standpoint.

BIind
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1826]
 

Originally by: Todoshi
although it probably won't effect ccp to much, lets face it there will still be 30k+ players logged in tonight and tommorow and the day after that


Quite frankly the number of people currently logged in does not reflect the amount of soon to would have been cap/R&D/whatnot alts that will not be resubbed. I'm sure they've done the math but they can not just keep pushing game mechanics that pretty much require you to outsource tasks to well trained alts and then one day decide to cash in on it.

The fact that the account management page is down is just the icing on the cake.

LadyMaverick
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1827]
 

I liked this game, because it gave me options. I could go on vacation and have skills being trained. I could start a new account and train for freighter, falcon, hulk pilot, while keeping it active from time to time and ghost training meanwhile playing on other accounts, and then re-activating fully when I could fly the actual thing. I was able to experience something new everytime.

But now, I've lost all of my interest to pay for accounts that I can't use fully. I'm not gonna pay for being able to fly freaking frigate, while training for a freighter.

You fail horribly in understanding your playerbase.

There goes bye bye my subscription..for as someone said, 'Purely for lying to us, you shameless money grabbing corporate *****s'

Virgo I'Platonicus
0utbreak
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1828]
 

Originally by: Jel Ting


That is a guide, it tells you what to expect, not what is intent. It's not a mission statement or add stating we made it this way for you. We can get lawyered up for a semantic debate, but nah. So new players shouldn't play the game and figure things out? They shouldn't start with a frigate and lvl 1 missions? I started with 15k sp, now people start with 800-900k so your point is invalide withing 2 weeks of a new char now you can be in a t2 frigate with t2 weapons, so cry me a river, as for older players they have older chars they can wait for hulks to train or whatever and play their old account. I still think the character farming is a big aspect we are overlooking, why train one dread pilot when for the same cost I can train 2 and sell one to finance the hardware?
So once again play the game, dont power level without paying. If you want to train and do whatever fine, just now you have to pay like the rest of us.


You started with 15k SP? Poor man. Was EVE fun for you back then? :)
I started with 8k, because I wanted to specialise in something else than what EVE system offered me back then. I had an excel sheet ready to train for 45 days straight just to get all learning bonuses. It was, it is a ****ty period in game char development.
The new 1 mio starting SP bonus is what had to be done to get new players coming into the game, and with this payment change that barrier should be upped to 2 mio to get people interested again, not lowered for the sake of grumpy old farts like you and me :)

V.

Chad Awesomelaser
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:53:00 - [1829]
 

I need 3 more 30 day skills to get to use Awesome Lasers.

Now I won't live up to my name without paying $45 just for that purpose.

I guess I could petition for a name change to Chad Mediocrelaser.

Chad Adequatelaser?

Total Disaster
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:54:00 - [1830]
 

Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus
Perhaps allow ghost training for 25 - 30% the monthly fee?

V.


how about inactive accounts train at a 50% speed (i.e. takes double as long)


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